Moolah Scam on Mintpal - Reporting Missing Coins

[Nomercy82]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

[soltantgris]

Hi, anyone having FLT lost in Minptal have to read what I wrote and propose. It's just a first attempt and may be a fail, but I do need as much support as possible to proceed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752630.new#new

Thank you for you support. 

[Mr Felt]

The authorities are in contact with him now . . . .

Can you say a little more about this?  What authorities are you referencing?

[djnocide]

The authorities are in contact with him now . . . .

Can you say a little more about this?  What authorities are you referencing?

Where did you get this informations?

[srmojuze]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Unfortunately, until I see a police report then I won't be able to believe that the "authorities" are doing anything.

Patience as a virtue is important.

However, the status of the matter is Mintpal and/or Moopay have clearly stolen the coins. By not being able to facilitate withdrawal of the coins after, say, a period of several days, then the status is that the coins are stolen. Forget the "law", this is purely common sense.

Only by declaration of bankruptcy would we reasonably consider that the coins are not stolen but mismanaged then it is a debt recovery process.

Remember that the "law" and "justice" as dictated by big government is mostly irrelevant as such "law" is so distorted that I feel it will not ever relate adequately to cryptocurrency.

For cryptocurrency we have to go back to common sense. In my view as a Christian, I believe the ultimate law ~is~ God's law as most clearly examplified in the ten commandments... The most relevant here is of course Thou Shalt Not Steal. We put coins on Mintpal, we have given a chance for them to return our coins as per our arrangement in depositing coins there. No declaration of bankruptcy. Therefore, Mintpal (influenced no doubt by this Moopay shenanigans), has stolen our coins, plain and simple.

1.
So it is either a criminal case in which stolen property is tracked down to recover the stolen property and deal justly with the thief.

2.
Or it is a financial case in which our property was mismanaged by the business and the business is clearly insolvent, therefore debt recovery proceedings must occur.

The above can't happen overnight of course but either 1. or 2. is the course of action that needs to be taken, and we as creditors and investors must demand evidence that 1. or 2. is proceeding.

There's always option 3. in which we as a creditor or investor accept the loss of our funds and move on, but we should outline these three options.

I'm certainly not perfect but my faith and my experience tells me the above.

[daydreamtrader]

I lost about 6 btc worth of coins .8 btc, 70+ Dark, 1.8 million Doge, 10ish namecoin, and a bunch of other coins that i dont really remember... i hadnt logged into the account for a couple weeks before they went under :-/

[RenegadeMan]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Unfortunately, until I see a police report then I won't be able to believe that the "authorities" are doing anything.

Patience as a virtue is important.

However, the status of the matter is Mintpal and/or Moopay have clearly stolen the coins. By not being able to facilitate withdrawal of the coins after, say, a period of several days, then the status is that the coins are stolen. Forget the "law", this is purely common sense.

Only by declaration of bankruptcy would we reasonably consider that the coins are not stolen but mismanaged then it is a debt recovery process.

Remember that the "law" and "justice" as dictated by big government is mostly irrelevant as such "law" is so distorted that I feel it will not ever relate adequately to cryptocurrency.

For cryptocurrency we have to go back to common sense. In my view as a Christian, I believe the ultimate law ~is~ God's law as most clearly examplified in the ten commandments... The most relevant here is of course Thou Shalt Not Steal. We put coins on Mintpal, we have given a chance for them to return our coins as per our arrangement in depositing coins there. No declaration of bankruptcy. Therefore, Mintpal (influenced no doubt by this Moopay shenanigans), has stolen our coins, plain and simple.

1.
So it is either a criminal case in which stolen property is tracked down to recover the stolen property and deal justly with the thief.

2.
Or it is a financial case in which our property was mismanaged by the business and the business is clearly insolvent, therefore debt recovery proceedings must occur.

The above can't happen overnight of course but either 1. or 2. is the course of action that needs to be taken, and we as creditors and investors must demand evidence that 1. or 2. is proceeding.

There's always option 3. in which we as a creditor or investor accept the loss of our funds and move on, but we should outline these three options.

I'm certainly not perfect but my faith and my experience tells me the above.

Good post srmojuze; your points are very clear.

As you would know. in the case of number 2 (property being mismanaged and the business being insolvent) it's virtually impossible to prove insolvency from outside of a business and it's not until receivers are appointed that the true state of affairs can be reconciled and reported on (at which point unsecured creditors can kiss most of what they're owed goodbye as the receivers and the whole administration process will just consume huge portions of whatever funds are left. Some insolvency practitioners make small fortunes out of big messes like these....yet another parasitic aspect to business failure).

Number 1 is the better alternative and should be pursued as far as it will go before Mintpal/Moolah respond to the police with enough evidence that theft hasn't occurred to force the whole thing back into an insolvency issue (if they'll in fact even do this). Based on what's likely so far I don't think they'll be able to pull together enough evidence that theft hasn't occurred (but if Alex/Ryan Green/Kennedy is there he's likely to talk his way through any interview and get them off his back for a while) and there'll be enough for law enforcement personnel to pursue the "theft" line of investigation and likely charge persons with crimes.

[srmojuze]

Good post srmojuze; your points are very clear.

As you would know. in the case of number 2 (property being mismanaged and the business being insolvent) it's virtually impossible to prove insolvency from outside of a business and it's not until receivers are appointed that the true state of affairs can be reconciled and reported on (at which point unsecured creditors can kiss most of what they're owed goodbye as the receivers and the whole administration process will just consume huge portions of whatever funds are left. Some insolvency practitioners make small fortunes out of big messes like these....yet another parasitic aspect to business failure).

Number 1 is the better alternative and should be pursued as far as it will go before Mintpal/Moolah respond to the police with enough evidence that theft hasn't occurred to force the whole thing back into an insolvency issue (if they'll in fact even do this). Based on what's likely so far I don't think they'll be able to pull together enough evidence that theft hasn't occurred (but if Alex/Ryan Green/Kennedy is there he's likely to talk his way through any interview and get them off his back for a while) and there'll be enough for law enforcement personnel to pursue the "theft" line of investigation and likely charge persons with crimes.

Cheers, I'm not normally this calm, I would be going crazy on forums and so on. But I'm trying to be a "better man" (cue Pearl Jam song, for those old enough to know ) ...I'm no legal or business expert but having been a contractor for a while and in the past few years trying to kickstart my own business, you kinda have to look into these things seriously lol.

I agree, Number 2 above is a less-than-ideal situation and in which case the money returned to average creditors would be miniscule if anything. But indeed if Number 2 is not clearly occurring, then Number 1 is the go.

As per Number 1, given the size of the alleged theft, that is, USD $1 Million ++ ...The procedure in Australia where I live would be a theft report filed with the state police and ASIC ("SEC" in Australia) with a press release and/or press conference by local police with accused company (Mintpal and/or Moolah) holding their own press conference.

In both cases the local/state/federal police would appear on public video record (usually carried by the media) as well as accused company executives going on public video record (again, usually carried by the media).

As we do not see any of the above the status of Number 1 above is unclear.

Now, personally, after living in London for a few months several years back, I have to say that the UK is a very badly run country. Everything is focused on the London financial system and everything else be goshdarned. Due to massive and uncontrolled immigration the Western norms and practices we have become used to is collapsing in the UK. Anecdotally British people that move to Australia are not viewed favourably.

That is why, I believe, everything is still in such a mess after all this time, because perhaps, the right people have not been "incentivised" appropriately for the UK media, UK cryptocurrency community, and UK government public servants to really start kicking butt on this... Apart from people here, SVN, etc. that are taking commendable steps.

We're not talking a contractor that has run off with ten thousand dollars. We are talking a global scandal involving over a million dollars. If anything it shows so clearly how everything in the West (and other countries of course) is so rigged and fraudulent because of the central bank ponzi garbage fiat system.

Average people lose one million dollars through a UK company... meh who cares. Big banks lose hundreds of billions of dollars.... PANIC! QUICK! GOVERNMENT MUST BAIL THEM OUT!

While Mintpal implosion is bad for crypto in the short term, overall everything in the world points to how absolutely essential cryptocurrency and precious metals are in the long term.

A quick plug here. On this forum of course there are certain decorum and rules to be followed, if you want free-speech-oriented, secure and anonymous (as a goal) social media based on Bitmessage, please read and post at: https://BitChirp.org (which I run).

[BagHolder010]

Is it really all these problems and they stole/mismanaged something around 1M dollars only? I thought having a Crypto exchange like MP would make at least 5M in profits, no wonder exchanges change their hearts if someone can deposit what they make 3x in their yearly profits.

Someone please tell me I am wrong and they make more than that 

[srmojuze]

Is it really all these problems and they stole/mismanaged something around 1M dollars only? I thought having a Crypto exchange like MP would make at least 5M in profits, no wonder exchanges change their hearts if someone can deposit what they make 3x in their yearly profits.

Someone please tell me I am wrong and they make more than that  

4000 BTC has been stolen. 4000 BTC * USD $350+ = approx $1.5 million USD. Other funds by Mintpal appear to be in their possession but it is unclear who/what/how they are going to distribute those funds.

My personal summary of the matter is this. Alex Green/ Ryan Kennedy has been scamming for a long time. He may have had some genuine successes. However with Mintpal he saw an opportunity and used the "acquisition" to steal and then liquidate thousands of BTC.

From mintpaljustice.com (in italics)

"Finally, our agreement was put in place. Alex was to be put in charge of building a new version of the MintPal exchange (dubbed 'V2' by Green), with the promise of high security, retaining (or expanding upon) the beautiful interface as boasted by MintPal - and to boot, we would take advantage of MintPal's existing, massive user base.

To put it mildly, the MintPal V2 launch did not go as planned. After a lot of community uproar surrounding Green's self-imposed deadlines on MintPal's re-launch, and several delays, MintPal V2 eventually launched with a buggy platform, a $20 template, and was lacking several key features - many of which were perfectly intact before Green's involvement with the service. Green's MintPal had been active barely a week, when it was taken offline due to a 'critical bug'. Shortly after, Green announced the bankruptcy of Moolah, due to the "loss of key customers"; but conversely, Green mentioned that they were still completely solvent."

"We paid off the bills retrospectively out of our own pockets, and brought the servers back online. These coins were now safe, but unfortunately, we have no way to distribute them without knowing who owns what, without access to the current database."

"MintPal as a financial investment was a lost cause for us at this point, with an alleged amount of over 4000 Bitcoin lost under the "management" of Alex Green/Ryan Kennedy. "

"Looking at LemonadeDev's account at LocalBitcoins, the first thing that jumps out is that Ryan wrote on his profile that he has "sold over 1,500 BTC in the past 6 months, and have access to roughly 4,000 BTC for larger sales".

"The law firm we have been working with is Selachii LLP, and we are hoping to raise $25,000 in order to cover the remaining costs in our legal battle against Ryan."

AND THIS IS WHY HUMANITY HAS A FUTURE!

"I hope that this is where a stand is taken against the scam artists, fraudsters, and conmen who plague the Crypto community at large; and even if I remain out of pocket from Kennedy/Green's doings, I would take solace in knowing that my loss can benefit the entire digital currency marketplace."

Personally, this is what capitalism looks like. It's very Wild Wild West but that is the essence of true free market. What we see in the fiat world is some semblance of stability and "regulation" but it comes at a very, very high price.

[srmojuze]

For the record: United States Department Of The Treasury "Financial Crimes Enforcement Network" (try not to burst out laughing yeah )

[modernart]

I thought that landon said moolah was incorporated in wyoming and looks like the office is at a street corner or maybe a tree?  1 Washougal River Rd
Washougal , WA 98671 USA . landon is full of shit too I hope people are looking into his involvement as well as landon and ryan may have been gay lovers.

[Nomercy82]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Unfortunately, until I see a police report then I won't be able to believe that the "authorities" are doing anything.

Unfortunately you won't be getting one right now. This isn't something that is going to be broadcast everywhere as we are so used to on the internet. This is the real world and while there are people who are pushing for some things to be released, not all can be.

The other reason you won't have heard much is that it's generally a bad idea to let your opponent know your game plan before you face them.

[soltantgris]

Please if you have any fluttercoin in mintpal, read : 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=752630.new#new

[SnjafSnjaf]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Something is certainly going on, since he stopped tweeting all of the sudden... I really hope that they laid their hands on him!

[Its About Sharing]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Great to hear. Hopefully they at least start sending what they have access to.

[soltantgris]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Something is certainly going on, since he stopped tweeting all of the sudden... I really hope that they laid their hands on him!

Don't put your hope too high. Ryan PMed me on twitted 2-3 times the last 4 days. Was all bullshit as usual, false promise etc, but still he was faking to still be acting.

[modernart]

The address is not where he lives, it was a business registration address.

The authorities are in contact with him now, it's not like he's in dubai or something.

We just need to be patient, these things can take time.

Something is certainly going on, since he stopped tweeting all of the sudden... I really hope that they laid their hands on him!

Don't put your hope too high. Ryan PMed me on twitted 2-3 times the last 4 days. Was all bullshit as usual, false promise etc, but still he was faking to still be acting.

It would be nice if someone chops off his fucking hands. He would still have that whiny bitch voice to scam with but less hands would be a good start

[luck5]

still waiting for 876,330 MYR withdrawal

[srmojuze]

Unfortunately you won't be getting one right now. This isn't something that is going to be broadcast everywhere as we are so used to on the internet. This is the real world and while there are people who are pushing for some things to be released, not all can be.

The other reason you won't have heard much is that it's generally a bad idea to let your opponent know your game plan before you face them.

Exactly, until there is evidence that criminal charges have been laid, our focus should be laying criminal charges.

And if this is "not going to be broadcast", how would we then assume that the "authorities" are doing anything?

I understand that we should be patient and not fly off the handle, but let us consider the gravity of the situation. For example poster above, RM 900,000 if indeed he lost is USD 300,000.

While Ryan (allegedly) stole $1 million USD remember that the amount of funds now "frozen" in Mintpal amount to the millions of USD. From what I read Mintpal would like to release the remaining (not stolen by Ryan) coins but Ryan appears to have screwed up the database or blocked access as well (where backups I wonder).

So yes, let's stay calm but focused due to the gravity of the situation.

Apart from Mt Gox this is the no. 2 MASSIVE scam in cryptocurrency.

This is a very serious situation. If the "authorities" cannot resolve it then it cements my belief that big government, big banks and traditional fiat systems have no place, and can offer no help, in the cryptocurrency world.

Depending on the capitalisation of Mintpal, there could be tens of millions of dollars of coins locked up in there, aka, stolen.