P

[unclescrooge]

Wrd, on top of that I don't understand why bonds are ”tricky”. Just pay out the security issuer (Goat) and let him divvy it up from there. The only reason why it would be ”tricky” is if he (or whoever its using him aa sock puppet) wanted to ID all the bond holders. I wonder why he would want to do that?

A silly question: Why would pirate40 want to identify all bond holders? IRS?

That's the 5 millions dollars question

For right now I will assume yes... I think he has a gun to his head.

Agreed :/

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[Nefario]

No - you still don't get it.
I don't have any PPT bonds and when I did, I did not buy them for cents.

Goat was trying to get himself rich by selling empty PPT bonds - and Nefario was helping him, probably being his partner in this business.
And now they are both screwed.

Absolutely baseless accusation, proof please.

The proof of Goat selling empty PPT bonds?
Or the proof or you being his lying bitch?

Both.

1) The number of active assets is 30175 ATM, while it was far below 27895, after Pirate announced that he's stopping accepting deposits.
2) You are denying this simple fact.

Look Mr. conspiracy theorist,

I provided you with all the numbers for that asset you requested(dates as well), and all you could provide was "I remember them being different", you got chewed out by everyone else on that thread as well because you're so damn sure you remembered several sets of numbers, dates and times over a period of a few days and that the numbers I provided (pulled from a DB) are wrong, and therefor I must be in league with Goat.

Now, as I've said I'll give users signed receipts of their asset balance (but not give user details to pirate) what else have you got to say, except to trot out your theory that the rest of the world is conspiring against specifically you.


I believe it would be stupid for any GLBSE user to get a receipt to give to pirate, it won't increase their chance of getting paid, and will reduce the chance other users will (not that I think they have a chance either way), pirate will keep making excuses not to pay.

I also believe it would be dangerous for GLBSE users to give such information to pirate, why in the world would he want it?

[piotr_n]

Oh, spare me the crap, Nefario.
You simply left me with the choice of me being crazy, not remembering a number I saw yesterday - or you being a Goat's laying bitch.
And now you pretending to be surprised that I chose the later - what the hell were you thinking I'd choose?

[nima]

Wrd, on top of that I don't understand why bonds are ”tricky”. Just pay out the security issuer (Goat) and let him divvy it up from there. The only reason why it would be ”tricky” is if he (or whoever its using him aa sock puppet) wanted to ID all the bond holders. I wonder why he would want to do that?

A silly question: Why would pirate40 want to identify all bond holders? IRS?

That's the 5 millions dollars question

For right now I will assume yes... I think he has a gun to his head.

Agreed :/

Gotta hide in Cuba for years now when IRS finds out I had 5 btc. 

[Nefario]

you being a Goat's laying bitch.
And now you pretending to be surprised that I chose the later

Is laying a step up or down?

I feign no surprise, I place you in the tinfoil hat category of people so expect to hear all sorts of things.

[piotr_n]

you being a Goat's laying bitch.
And now you pretending to be surprised that I chose the later

Is laying a step up or down?

I feign no surprise, I place you in the tinfoil hat category of people so expect to hear all sorts of things.

How should I know if the lie was a step up, or down, for you?
For me, such a lie, would have definitely been a step down.
But since you are so stupid, and so I cannot put myself in your position - I believe that you may still be thinking that it was leading you up...

[Nefario]

you being a Goat's laying bitch.
And now you pretending to be surprised that I chose the later

Is laying a step up or down?

I feign no surprise, I place you in the tinfoil hat category of people so expect to hear all sorts of things.

How should I know if the lie was a step up, or down, for you?
For me, such a lie, would have definitely been a step down.
But since you are so stupid, and so I cannot put myself in your position - I believe that you may still be thinking that it was leading you up...

[Tomatocage]

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you -  GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4.
5. Profit

[piotr_n]

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you -  GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4.
5. Profit

That sound like a good plan... except that the guy who administrates GLBSE is the one that Pirate is trying to avoid, because he's cheeky goat's bitch, that would not hesitate to lie for a profit.
So how can you trust in his service?
Especially if you know that he recently stole 3000 ASICMINER assets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1138495#msg1138495

[Tomatocage]

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you -  GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4.
5. Profit

That sound like a good plan... except that the guy who administrates GLBSE is the one that Pirate is trying to avoid, because he's cheeky goat's bitch, that would not hesitate to lie for a profit.
So how can you trust in his service?
Especially if you know that he recently stole 3000 ASICMINER assets.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg1138495#msg1138495

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up a GLBSE account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share".  Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

[piotr_n]

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up an account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share".  Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

You don't see a reason - but I do.
If Pirate does start an account - and something gets missing from his account; he will be the one responsible.
The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.
Just like there was no way for nedbert9 to prove that Nefario stole 3k of his ASICMINER.
But the common sense says that he is the obvious thief, since he refused to revert the stealing transactions.

Pirate would have to be crazy, like I used to be, to open an account on this fucking thief's server.

[bitlane]

Personally, I trust Goat *WAY* more than Pirate, but if Pirate really wants/needs proof from the bond-holders themselves, I see no reason why he can't just set up an account himself and say "Ok anybody who wants their payout, send your shares of XXXXX bond to pirate_deposits and you'll receive .XXXX BTC per share".  Problem solved, and you circumvent Nefario and Goat all together.

OR, Pirate can simply set up his own BID Wall and tell everyone to dump. He doesn't need anyone's info.

Goat, Nefario and anyone else showing Pirate just the slightest bit of resistance to his crap should be rewarded, not kicked in public.

THEY ARE PROTECTING THEIR CUSTOMERS.

[Serge]

you still don't get it do you, the greed of cashing out cheaply picked up bonds for bitcents on a bitcoin is blinding you -  GLBSE PPTs are NOT BTCST Trust Sub-accounts there is nothing for Goat/Nefario to submit to Pirate. GBLSE should not, can't and won't release their user's data to 3rd parties without a legal motion such as court order

1. Create "mule" GLBSE account named ronald_mcdonald
2. Transfer over all bonds to mule account
3. Submit info to Pirate
4.
5. Profit

it's a neat shortcut but there still would be an obligation to those who don't submit/trust this mule account.

if I invested in GLBSE PPT I expect to get paid by either dividend or through buy-back according to asset's contract, and in this case I don't owe pirate anything and would not approve GLBSE/Goat passing around my data to 3rd parties. Pirate dealt with Goat and should honor his end of deal with Goat, then Goat needs to honor his part of deal with his bond holders through GLBSE.

edit: yeah or as bitlane said Pirate could just put a bid order for face value + all missing interest and it is done deal

[markm]

The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.
Just like there was no way for nedbert9 to prove that Nefario stole 3k of his ASICMINER.
But the common sense says that he is the obvious thief, since he refused to revert the stealing transactions.

Pirate would have to be crazy, like I used to be, to open an account on this fucking thief's server.

I am realy glad I have taken the tiem to work with FellowTraveler on getting Open Transactions working, so if people like you end up using my server every asset balance they have will be signed with their own secret private key that only exists on their computer, so if they try to claim I stole something their own digital signature will refute their accusation.

-MarkM-

[Nefario]

The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.

Listen, crazy, if you need lies to win an argument then it's no win at all.

Just like there was no way for nedbert9 to prove that Nefario stole 3k of his ASICMINER.

If there is no way to prove anything or no proof of anything, why are you accusing me?

But the common sense says that he is the obvious thief, since he refused to revert the stealing transactions.

I provide a secure platform for people to use, which includes 2fa, it requires that users keep their passwords safe, don't re-use them and use a machine that isn't compromised. If they can't do these things then there is nothing I can do to protect them. I've done everything I can and the rest is up to the user.

Just like a real stock market, if someone breaks into your account and executes trades, well that's just too bad they don't get reversed.

Whats to stop someone who made a bad trade or has fat fingers from claiming their account was compromised? Then every time the market takes a turn for the worst there would be a sudden rush of claims of hacked accounts.

On top of this I can't reverse trades when bitcoin has been withdrawn, since it's not GLBSE's fault, we've gone to the trouble to secure the exchange, we should not be required to foot the cost of someone else who didn't secure their account.

Pirate would have to be crazy, like I used to be, to open an account on this fucking thief's server.

You're just sore that you lost money betting in the pirate game, and Goat won't give it back to you and I won't help you. You had your chance, you could have bought insured PPT's, or like most sensible people you could have kept your money. You made yourself a victim, don't go blaming others, don't go calling assets on my exchange "illegal IPO's" when you we're perfectly happy to buy into them when things were sweet.

I am realy glad I have taken the tiem to work with FellowTraveler on getting Open Transactions working, so if people like you end up using my server every asset balance they have will be signed with their own secret private key that only exists on their computer, so if they try to claim I stole something their own digital signature will refute their accusation.

-MarkM-

No one cares about OpenTransactions, it's difficult to use and the problem it's tying to solve is the wrong one, the problem is key management.

GLBSE used to have all clients sign their orders with their private key, pretty soon because obvious that this wasn't going to scale as more and more people lost their keys

[DeaDTerra]

The service is under full control of Nefario (who is already proven to be a cheeky crook) and there is no way for anyone to prove that Nerafio stole anything from him at GLBSE.

Listen, crazy, if you need lies to win an argument then it's no win at all.

Just like there was no way for nedbert9 to prove that Nefario stole 3k of his ASICMINER.

If there is no way to prove anything or no proof of anything, why are you accusing me?

But the common sense says that he is the obvious thief, since he refused to revert the stealing transactions.

I provide a secure platform for people to use, which includes 2fa, it requires that users keep their passwords safe, don't re-use them and use a machine that isn't compromised. If they can't do these things then there is nothing I can do to protect them. I've done everything I can and the rest is up to the user.

Just like a real stock market, if someone breaks into your account and executes trades, well that's just too bad they don't get reversed.

Whats to stop someone who made a bad trade or has fat fingers from claiming their account was compromised? Then every time the market takes a turn for the worst there would be a sudden rush of claims of hacked accounts.

On top of this I can't reverse trades when bitcoin has been withdrawn, since it's not GLBSE's fault, we've gone to the trouble to secure the exchange, we should not be required to foot the cost of someone else who didn't secure their account.

Pirate would have to be crazy, like I used to be, to open an account on this fucking thief's server.

You're just sore that you lost money betting in the pirate game, and Goat won't give it back to you and I won't help you. You had your chance, you could have bought insured PPT's, or like most sensible people you could have kept your money. You made yourself a victim, don't go blaming others, don't go calling assets on my exchange "illegal IPO's" when you we're perfectly happy to buy into them when things were sweet.

I am realy glad I have taken the tiem to work with FellowTraveler on getting Open Transactions working, so if people like you end up using my server every asset balance they have will be signed with their own secret private key that only exists on their computer, so if they try to claim I stole something their own digital signature will refute their accusation.

-MarkM-

No one cares about OpenTransactions, it's difficult to use and the problem it's tying to solve is the wrong one, the problem is key management.

GLBSE used to have all clients sign their orders with their private key, pretty soon because obvious that this wasn't going to scale as more and more people lost their keys

Wow...
People on this forum are getting more and more stupid each day that passes.
Accusing Nefario of theft when the share were sold into the open market... really?
Comeon guys, lay off this crazy hunt for a scape goat.
//DeaDTerra

[piotr_n]

so now it is about fat fingers - not a stolen session anymore...
sure - it could have been anything... i agree
but you know what, as for me, it was most likely just you.
otherwise you would have reverted the transaction.
if you let this money to get withdrawn from your service, even though all the withdrawals are delayed anyway and man needs to wait an hour for a fucking 1.66.
300 - and you just let it go through like that...
that's your fucking fault and you should have taken the consequences

[Nefario]

so now it is about fat fingers - not a stolen session anymore...
sure - it could have been anything... i agree
but you know what, as for me, it was most likely just you.
otherwise you would have reverted the transaction.
if you let this money to get withdrawn from your service, even though all the withdrawals are delayed anyway and man needs to wait an hour for a fucking 1.66.
300 - and you just let it go through like that...
that's your fucking fault and you should have taken the consequences

Does any exchange revert a transaction when someone has allowed their account to be compromised?

MtGox? Intersango? BTC-e?

You'll find the answer is no, for obvious reasons.

We've taken a hit plenty of times, when it was our fault but never had to do so for a compromised account as GLBSE takes all precautions, I see no reason why we or any other site should do so if they're not responsible.

People are responsible for their own security there is only so much we can do and this is doubly so with bitcoin.

[piotr_n]

Does any exchange revert a transaction when someone has allowed their account to be compromised?

they dont have to because their busines, unlike your is not about stealing, so they have no problem like someone suddenly saying that his 300 btc worth assets were sold for 24 and withdrawn without problem a minute later
it can only happen on yor service man.
so just accept that you are special and we all admire you

[sadpandatech]

Does any exchange revert a transaction when someone has allowed their account to be compromised?

they dont have to because their busines, unlike your is not about stealing, so they have no problem like someone suddenly saying that his 300 btc worth assets were sold for 24 and withdrawn without problem a minute later
it can only happen on yor service man.
so just accept that you are special and we all admire you

That does sound like a very unusual circumstance. Now if only we had a open place where we could start topics on such matters and discuss them. now where might we find such a place...

You'll have to answer that first part yourself, but for the last time, Pirate's request has 0 to do with Nef or Goat. You're arguing to the point of seeming to be purposfully trying to distract from that issue.