[ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping

[Soul_eater_123]

Metaphors are great explanatory tools when the comparison they make is correct. Yours, however, did not address my argument.

Yes it did you merely don't see it because you don't want to and it would harm your point if you did.  

You want them to mollycoddle you and I am pointing out it is not what real companies do and it is also not a concern to them whether you are informed or not about their day to day activities.  

They are working on the important part of their business and not pandering to babies.  

It is like buying Apple shares and expecting Tim Cook to update you on what is happening behind the scenes everyday.  That is not going to happen.

If you believe in the project you hold, if not you sell.  

It's pretty simple - complaining because they don't provide daily updates is just unrealistic.

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[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Metaphors are great explanatory tools when the comparison they make is correct. Yours, however, did not address my argument.

Yes it did you merely don't see it because you don't want to and it would harm your point if you did.  

You want them to mollycoddle you and I am pointing out it is not what real companies do and it is also not a concern to them whether you are informed or not about their day to day activities.  

They are working on the important part of their business and not pandering to babies.  

It is like buying Apple shares and expecting Tim Cook to update you on what is happening behind the scenes everyday.  That is not going to happen.

If you believe in the project you hold, if not you sell.  

It's pretty simple - complaining because they don't provide daily updates is just unrealistic.

You've obviously never lived in poverty if you think people can't sell coins they believe in. News flash: people need food. People have loved ones that depend on them. There are more coins in this space which I believe in than I possess money to invest, so I have to choose.

This is not analogous to Apple at all. I am not some random investor in Factom. I wrote the first Bitcoin Magazine article about it, made it appear on NewsBTC countless times, had Paul Snow at CoinFest, and have been recommending it to government officials in Nigeria for some time. And more importantly:

I am also participating in a forum of my peers, where it should be assumed many other people have at least a couple similar connections. But the general conversation here tells me that not only is Factom not informing people publicly, but they're not PMing me or any of you guys about it, either. Or if they are, maybe you have way better connections than me, so they thought you were more worth their time My thinking here is really more practical than emotional, though... I cannot profit from trading without adequate knowledge

[MyFarm]

Well, now I'm kinda annoyed that I sold my FCT, but I'm not gonna buy them back. I sold because the Factom team never talks to me or lets me know what they're really doing, even though I'm one of the Community Leaders. I don't know if M2 is next week or next year, or really anything about who they're talking to in China, and that's not only scary but annoying.

Even if I miss out on bigger rallies and my wins are relatively smaller, I'll be correct more often if I am knowledgeable and informed, which plenty of other development teams are willing to do--at least for me. It's almost an issue of respect. I'm definitely happy with all the gains I made up until now, though!

I too sold my Factom, but you can be sure, I would have sold it once I saw they are working with the Department of Homeland Security.
Maybe they can shut down sports streaming sites together? lol
I would have sold on principle.

I realize many in the Cryptosphere aren't big fans of the government and regulation and I can understand why.  But what Factom is developing is a bit different and they're smart to take a more middle-ground approach.  These aren't people creating a something like a digital currency for pot growers.  These are people creating a means for data, especially data created by business and governments, to be secured and auditable.  As such, to sell on news that they're working with the government would imply that there isn't an understanding of what Factom is being designed to do.

[MyFarm]

To those who are upset with the lack of communication from Factom, if I was a seed round investor or performing due diligence in anticipation of taking part in a series A round, I assure you, after reading some of the earlier communication from them, they would have gotten a phone call along the lines of, "You guys need to learn to shut the fuck up."

I suspect something along those lines has transpired.  I realize it would be comforting to have some degree of reassurance from Factom, but their current approach is better for those of us in this for the long haul.

[tempus]

Well, now I'm kinda annoyed that I sold my FCT, but I'm not gonna buy them back. I sold because the Factom team never talks to me or lets me know what they're really doing, even though I'm one of the Community Leaders. I don't know if M2 is next week or next year, or really anything about who they're talking to in China, and that's not only scary but annoying.

Even if I miss out on bigger rallies and my wins are relatively smaller, I'll be correct more often if I am knowledgeable and informed, which plenty of other development teams are willing to do--at least for me. It's almost an issue of respect. I'm definitely happy with all the gains I made up until now, though!

I too sold my Factom, but you can be sure, I would have sold it once I saw they are working with the Department of Homeland Security.
Maybe they can shut down sports streaming sites together? lol
I would have sold on principle.

I doubt you have a point here. The reason is, that the word "honesty" in Factom is more than just PR/marketing. Factom will only have success if they do absolutely nothing that would compromise them or the system. With that being said: It's nothing bad about it if a "honesty-system" is implemented as much as possible in dishonest areas, like politics, finances, etc.

If you want that only the "good guys" use Factom it misses the point. Important is that Factom itself is on the right side, that the system is really credible and nearly impossible (nothing is totally impossible) to corrupt. And I have no doubt that the team will do all to be on the safe side regarding that subject if it comes to partnerships with institutions that might be shady in some ways. I don't have too much knowledge about US-Institutions (from germany), but what I find really interesting is reading Paul Snows posts on reddit about politics. I don't know him personally but I would make any bet that he is not just in this game for the money but honest about the deeper meaning of Factom.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

To those who are upset with the lack of communication from Factom, if I was a seed round investor or performing due diligence in anticipation of taking part in a series A round, I assure you, after reading some of the earlier communication from them, they would have gotten a phone call along the lines of, "You guys need to learn to shut the fuck up."

I suspect something along those lines has transpired.  I realize it would be comforting to have some degree of reassurance from Factom, but their current approach is better for those of us in this for the long haul.

I agree that their communication problem is not a big deal for people who are long enough. If I could afford to be long for more than a year or two without any short-term trading in between, I would have kept my Factoids. I wanted to do so, because I see the potential of both the technology and their professional network and client contacts.

Is it necessary, however, to choose between traditional investors and people like myself? Surely we could be privately informed under promises not to tell others, at least if we have some kind of title like Community Leader and are well known enough to be trusted. Then I might have been able to hold onto my Factoids, in which case I would continue to provide free marketing services. Now rational self interest requires me to give those services to others, which is fine because they are equally deserving of support.

Factom certainly doesn't need me, of course, but I'm not useless and do provide measurable value.

[Azael]

Well, now I'm kinda annoyed that I sold my FCT, but I'm not gonna buy them back. I sold because the Factom team never talks to me or lets me know what they're really doing, even though I'm one of the Community Leaders. I don't know if M2 is next week or next year, or really anything about who they're talking to in China, and that's not only scary but annoying.

Even if I miss out on bigger rallies and my wins are relatively smaller, I'll be correct more often if I am knowledgeable and informed, which plenty of other development teams are willing to do--at least for me. It's almost an issue of respect. I'm definitely happy with all the gains I made up until now, though!

There's plenty of information to read and if you take your time and learn the basics of programming you can estimate when M2 will be.

Of course at that point you will realize that software development that is innovative is hard to estimate ETAs on.  

Factom are not selling promises they are doing actual work and have actual results to show. Factom will be huge. They have a professional team and they utilize blockchain for realistic purposes. People see that it is a good horse to bet on just the basis that it is nice to have a vested interest with people who actually know what they are doing.

If you sell because they don't write on forums enough then well good luck in your future investments. I like what Factom are doing and I think it is a sound investment. I have not put in more than I can afford to lose and I have patience and faith that they will get it right. As should be.

[Its About Sharing]

I would have sold on principle.

Given this threads title, I'm surprised you bought in at all.

There is nothing honest about organizations formed out of dishonesty.
I am not against honesty, hence my initial purchase.

[Its About Sharing]

Well, now I'm kinda annoyed that I sold my FCT, but I'm not gonna buy them back. I sold because the Factom team never talks to me or lets me know what they're really doing, even though I'm one of the Community Leaders. I don't know if M2 is next week or next year, or really anything about who they're talking to in China, and that's not only scary but annoying.

Even if I miss out on bigger rallies and my wins are relatively smaller, I'll be correct more often if I am knowledgeable and informed, which plenty of other development teams are willing to do--at least for me. It's almost an issue of respect. I'm definitely happy with all the gains I made up until now, though!

I too sold my Factom, but you can be sure, I would have sold it once I saw they are working with the Department of Homeland Security.
Maybe they can shut down sports streaming sites together? lol
I would have sold on principle.

I doubt you have a point here. The reason is, that the word "honesty" in Factom is more than just PR/marketing. Factom will only have success if they do absolutely nothing that would compromise them or the system. With that being said: It's nothing bad about it if a "honesty-system" is implemented as much as possible in dishonest areas, like politics, finances, etc.

If you want that only the "good guys" use Factom it misses the point. Important is that Factom itself is on the right side, that the system is really credible and nearly impossible (nothing is totally impossible) to corrupt. And I have no doubt that the team will do all to be on the safe side regarding that subject if it comes to partnerships with institutions that might be shady in some ways. I don't have too much knowledge about US-Institutions (from germany), but what I find really interesting is reading Paul Snows posts on reddit about politics. I don't know him personally but I would make any bet that he is not just in this game for the money but honest about the deeper meaning of Factom.

Fair point

[Azael]

I agree that their communication problem is not a big deal for people who are long enough. If I could afford to be long for more than a year or two without any short-term trading in between, I would have kept my Factoids. I wanted to do so, because I see the potential of both the technology and their professional network and client contacts.

Is it necessary, however, to choose between traditional investors and people like myself? Surely we could be privately informed under promises not to tell others, at least if we have some kind of title like Community Leader and are well known enough to be trusted. Then I might have been able to hold onto my Factoids, in which case I would continue to provide free marketing services. Now rational self interest requires me to give those services to others, which is fine because they are equally deserving of support.

Factom certainly doesn't need me, of course, but I'm not useless and do provide measurable value.

What you wanted was for them to pump the price short-term by making promises they have no intention to keep. Alternatively you wanted them to feed you info you could use to get an edge to trade with. Gotcha. That is some shady intentions you got there and you are surprised they didn't want to work with you?

[MyFarm]

Is it necessary, however, to choose between traditional investors and people like myself? Surely we could be privately informed under promises not to tell others, at least if we have some kind of title like Community Leader and are well known enough to be trusted. Then I might have been able to hold onto my Factoids, in which case I would continue to provide free marketing services. Now rational self interest requires me to give those services to others, which is fine because they are equally deserving of support.

Factom certainly doesn't need me, of course, but I'm not useless and do provide measurable value.

If it was determined that Factom was communicating privately with people on a forum like you describe and providing information that wasn't available to the public at large, it would create a huge credibility, trust, and potentially even legal issue.

These are the guys who are going to be trusted to, "Make the world's systems honest".  To say that their i's need dotted and t's crossed is the understatement of the year.

Some of the early choices Factom made such as all the, "Community Leaders" (and some other things) made me worry that this was an amateur operation.  It would appear to me that some seasoned businessmen have since got involved and are working to cross those t's and i's.  I wouldn't take it personally that they aren't actively communicating with you and giving you inside info.  However, if they are moving away from utilizing community leaders, a well-worded email to each of you would have likely paid dividends.

[Soul_eater_123]

You've obviously never lived in poverty if you think people can't sell coins they believe in. News flash: people need food. People have loved ones that depend on them. There are more coins in this space which I believe in than I possess money to invest, so I have to choose.

This is not analogous to Apple at all. I am not some random investor in Factom. I wrote the first Bitcoin Magazine article about it, made it appear on NewsBTC countless times, had Paul Snow at CoinFest, and have been recommending it to government officials in Nigeria for some time. And more importantly:

I am also participating in a forum of my peers, where it should be assumed many other people have at least a couple similar connections. But the general conversation here tells me that not only is Factom not informing people publicly, but they're not PMing me or any of you guys about it, either. Or if they are, maybe you have way better connections than me, so they thought you were more worth their time My thinking here is really more practical than emotional, though... I cannot profit from trading without adequate knowledge

I think you are being melodramatic here.  People who are truly poor and need money for food are not investing in cryptocurrency full stop.  By way of the fact that you are actually on here and have the time and cash to do this puts you into the wealthier part of the world's population.  Get things in perspective man.  Your arguments are just getting embarrassing now.

[Soul_eater_123]

If it was determined that Factom was communicating privately with people on a forum like you describe and providing information that wasn't available to the public at large, it would create a huge credibility, trust, and potentially even legal issue.

Also they are likely to be dealing with large public and private enterprises where NDAs and high secrecy about future projects are the norm.  They are hardly going to be passing this on to "community leaders" who would pose a serious security risk.

[tempus]

If it was determined that Factom was communicating privately with people on a forum like you describe and providing information that wasn't available to the public at large, it would create a huge credibility, trust, and potentially even legal issue.

Also they are likely to be dealing with large public and private enterprises where NDAs and high secrecy about future projects are the norm.  They are hardly going to be passing this on to "community leaders" who would pose a serious security risk.

Exactly! Tiana Laurence pointed that (also about NDA's) perfectly (and funny) out:

"So much is happening, we just can't talk about it....you are such a jerk...!" ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnZoZtkoa8&feature=youtu.be&t=37m

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I agree that their communication problem is not a big deal for people who are long enough. If I could afford to be long for more than a year or two without any short-term trading in between, I would have kept my Factoids. I wanted to do so, because I see the potential of both the technology and their professional network and client contacts.

Is it necessary, however, to choose between traditional investors and people like myself? Surely we could be privately informed under promises not to tell others, at least if we have some kind of title like Community Leader and are well known enough to be trusted. Then I might have been able to hold onto my Factoids, in which case I would continue to provide free marketing services. Now rational self interest requires me to give those services to others, which is fine because they are equally deserving of support.

Factom certainly doesn't need me, of course, but I'm not useless and do provide measurable value.

What you wanted was for them to pump the price short-term by making promises they have no intention to keep. Alternatively you wanted them to feed you info you could use to get an edge to trade with. Gotcha. That is some shady intentions you got there and you are surprised they didn't want to work with you?

It's really easy to posit negative intentions without concrete evidence, isn't it? I wasn't going to, but here goes:

We could also suggest that Factom isn't telling us anything because they themselves are trading on the rises and falls to their own advantage, which they don't want to give away. One time, Brian was very delayed in issuing me Factoids earned as a Community Leader after I requested it. He didn't come through until the steep crash after that spike we saw a while ago (the big one).

Who is to say they didn't do this on purpose because they thought I planned to sell my Factoids at that time? By delaying me, they get to sell at the high price without me taking the buy order volume away. You see, my lack of knowledge about what's going on goes deeper than things like M2--even people like me are so out of the loop that I could realistically suspect such shenanigans. Look at how high and low those prices swung...

[Blazin8888]

I will buy more this coin will be one of the best investments of the year.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

You've obviously never lived in poverty if you think people can't sell coins they believe in. News flash: people need food. People have loved ones that depend on them. There are more coins in this space which I believe in than I possess money to invest, so I have to choose.

This is not analogous to Apple at all. I am not some random investor in Factom. I wrote the first Bitcoin Magazine article about it, made it appear on NewsBTC countless times, had Paul Snow at CoinFest, and have been recommending it to government officials in Nigeria for some time. And more importantly:

I am also participating in a forum of my peers, where it should be assumed many other people have at least a couple similar connections. But the general conversation here tells me that not only is Factom not informing people publicly, but they're not PMing me or any of you guys about it, either. Or if they are, maybe you have way better connections than me, so they thought you were more worth their time My thinking here is really more practical than emotional, though... I cannot profit from trading without adequate knowledge

I think you are being melodramatic here.  People who are truly poor and need money for food are not investing in cryptocurrency full stop.  By way of the fact that you are actually on here and have the time and cash to do this puts you into the wealthier part of the world's population.

Economic status comes in more flavors than "rich" and "completely destitute without food," man. You think because I only have $3,000 to invest instead of $100,000, I should invest $0 because it's full stop or nothing? I have to have enough money to invest in every single meritable cryptocurrency project, or I should invest in none of them at all?

Why the fuck? No. I will invest as much as I safely can. If you have enough money to safely sit on for a few years, good for you, and enjoy it. I would still own Factoids under those conditions.

[flashbit]

Problem is ppl are so impatient in crypto. This company is clearly the real deal. Let them work. They are obviously working their butts off and the pressure is on now with all these incredible contracts. Let them be and you will be rewarded. Patience is a virtue. Enough said.

[Soul_eater_123]

Economic status comes in more flavors than "rich" and "completely destitute without food," man. You think because I only have $3,000 to invest instead of $100,000, I should invest $0 because it's full stop or nothing? I have to have enough money to invest in every single meritable cryptocurrency project, or I should invest in none of them at all?

Why the fuck? No. I will invest as much as I safely can. If you have enough money to safely sit on for a few years, good for you, and enjoy it. I would still own Factoids under those conditions.

Then stop complaining about lack of information or not getting special treatment.  Being a community leader in crypto means shit - it is not a formal position. Factom owes you nothing and there is no reason for you to get special treatment or secret information - hell most of the people who work for them probably aren't entitled to that - why should you be?

Further I don't have a huge amount of funds to invest either.  You are the one making ridiculous assumptions of wealth.  I don't have huge stacks of money to throw away yet I am not complaining about making a voluntary investment in a private company out of my own choice.

Factom is a real business and they are operating like one.  You may be used to things working differently in most crypto-projects but that is because they are not real businesses.  

As for your conspiracy theories why don't you tell Alex Jones about them?  If you find them that suspect sell your tokens and get out.

You can either grow up and stop complaining or move on.

Either way the people running Factom don't have time to worry about your feelings.  

They are too busy building a real business with real value and I would rather they spent time doing that than spending all their time posting pointless updates to placate people who have no patience and need constant reassurance or they start crying on BTC talk.

[Blazin8888]

I really think this Factom team is going to be doing some amazing things. Lets try to keep the talk here positive. Where do you guys expect FCT to be at the end of the year?

I believe this should have at least a 100M market cap. At least. Time will tell.

This is great news and I expect MM to start to pick it up soon...maybe next week?

https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/news/2016/06/17/st-awards-199k-austin-based-factom-inc-iot-systems-security

cool that they are from the great state of Texas too!