BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open

[kitey]

djm34, you are saying the only way out would have been to turn down the offer. Well yeah easier said then done when they are telling you whatever to get you in, rushing it, etc etc etc.

Its mathematically illogical to accept an offer like that knowing they will try to pocket more btc of your tech.

For example Bobs group ran away with 500 btc + 191(Bob) + 191(Ryan) + whatever they sold in Bay (at least 200 BTC lets say) + whatever they extorted from steven.

So yeah why would i do that, not sell a single baycoin, for a lousy license?! Totally illogical. Many times i asked them that i didnt want anyone profiting off my name it was my primary concern by far. I went into the deal cautiously because there was 4 others and felt that bter holding on to funds should be secure. Of course that assumption was incorrect.

Yeah so, like was said, you step into the garbage, and then are forced to clean up someone elses mess.

Correction: Bobs Group didn`t run away with FUCK all - you keep saying bobs group this and that, the facts are the group got FUCK all from BAY - stop with this.

[unusualfacts30]

...
When i was offered 10% of Bay by Steven, I thought they were buying it with their BTC. Only when the ICO started did I realize that wasnt the case.
My reluctance to expose it earlier (and by the way, I was the one to expose the entire scandal)... my reluctance was that they would do something like this. Anything that I discovered in the ICO phase would damage investors. So to be honest, I was trying to protect everyone involved including investors. I broke my silence because Bob was selling his Bay and provoking me with schill accounts.
...

So you believed they were going to buy that BAY with BTC completely separate from the BTC received during the ICO?  And you believed they were going to buy it after the ICO was completed and unsold coins destroyed, from the open market?

See that's the problem I keep coming back to, because you continue to say that I and other investors were being protected by you - but if Steven offered you BAY at any time prior to or during the ICO... then you were, in fact, defrauding the investors.  I don't mean you wanted to defraud them, or that you designed things to defraud them - simply that your actions (at a minimum) are the very catalyst, which allowed the others to succeed in that fraud!

You keep saying that you were trying to protect the investors, but your decision created the only situation which virtually guaranteed that the investors would be the only ones that lost in the deal.  Not Bob or Ryan, not Steven, not Lin, not you - just everyone else.  

I do not dispute that you were used.  I do not dispute that you had good intentions going in.  Unlike other notable critics, I do not dispute your abilities as a dev, nor the potential of both Halo itself and the BitBay concept as outlined.  In fact, that's exactly why I decided to throw a little BTC your way to support it - despite there being warning signs all over the place.

The problem however, is that you are still partnered with Steven - and he had to know about everything, or else he couldn't have offered you a single BAY in the first place!  (He could have offered you more BTC, and let you buy your own BAY when the markets opened... that would have been perfectly reasonable - and honest).

I do feel sorry for you - and I do hope for everyone's sake that you can make lemonade out of this unholy pile of crap... but I can only come up with two possibilities, even if I assume that you are 100% true to your word now (which is vastly different than your word prior to, during, and even after the ICO):

Possibility 1: Steven is brilliant (but crooked) and was 100% aware of everything from the beginning... thus he knew you were being played - and was fine with that.  Ironically, if he does indeed see BAY as a long term play and not simply a quick buck... then he might be the perfect guy to run a coin on the business side.  After all, he figured out the one way to get everything (including you) and even get rid of all of the other partners - while still keeping control of a majority of the proceeds!

Possibility 2: Steven is utterly retarded (but honest) and easily convinced into committing crimes by strangers, stabbing his friends in the back, and destroying his own business' long-term prospects in the process.  He's also completely clueless about markets, crypto currency, investing, sales, and everything else.  If this is the case, he is the very last person on the planet to which you should continue to tie yourself to, and the last person you want running the business side of anything worth more than a cup of coffee - let alone thousands of BTC.

However, maybe there's a possibility that I'm missing... but I can't come up with one.

Oh and at least you're using a multisig wallet for what's left... hopefully that will prevent both you and Steven from making any weird deals with unknown people again.  If only the investors could hold a third sig... maybe you should work on setting up a system where holders can vote for a community representative to hold a third sig.

Reputation>Money

If he had outlined everything before it had happened..they would kick him out of the team and as a result investors would lose money and thread would turn into fudstorm which is FAR worse than what is happening right now. Everyone would start complaining how they had faith in him and how he betrayed them regardless of him being truthful and honest.

I don't think you understand this but there WAS no way for him to save himself from the shitstorm. In your perspective one thing would be better than other thing but that's far from the truth. Yes, you would be happy but how about other investors? They would start whining about how they lost money. Bob & Gecko were threatening him and his family and asked him not to release any info. He has mentioned lot of times that he wanted to release info but they kept threatening him. It sounds more like he was stuck with something he didn't want to be part of.

You're right that he should've refused the offer of Free Bay but man gotta pay his bills.

I love bagholder gullibility, you have way too much coins to see clearly how screwed you are   That's why all this scam can succeed so easily.

Bob & Gecko threatening him ans his family   Good one, are you competing for the best story telling with Gecko ?
The guy lives in Cambodia (nice to evade prosecution no matter what...) while the 2 other idiots are in Canada ( )

The way to save himself from the shit storm was to walk away from the coin period.
Not doing this doesn't mean he wants to protect the investors, it just means he wants to scam them again.

How do you walk away from shit after stepping on it? It'll get stuck to your shoe and go with you everywhere you go. He is just trying to clean it.

As far as me being a bag holder. He has my full permission to do whatever is necessary to bring those clowns behind the bar for threatening his family. In fact I have 20 BTC+ and I could careless about them if he chose to go that route. Besides all this shitstorm he is still here working on the project when he can just walk away and let crypto die on its own but he chose not to. In fact if I was him I would walk away and bring new coin on monthly basis to scam all of you stupid fcks.

You have no fcking clue about how easy it is to scam people in this shit and if he wanted to scam he could take his profit from Bay and leave it...then come back tomorrow with new name and new coin...scam again and he could do it for as long as he wanted but he chose to stay here to fight for his reputation and investors.

lol, I know it is easy to scam people, because you still believe in the coin no matter what  

The easiest way to walk away would have been to not walk in... Every project which have put large IPO were all scams (not some, just all of them...)
So if you walk in that sort of project, you know very well it will be a scam and you will be part of the scamming team.

may-be he got cold feet at some point, I don't know, but he can't say he didn't know, he always knew it was the scam. He took part of it, in full knowledge of the situation, let you being scammed in full knownledge of the situation and now tries to make you believe that things has changed, knowing it is a big lie again and he and others (ex-)team still have large amount of the coin, they will dump on you or any future "investor" going in.

So keeping his involvement in the coin, will most likely increased the amount of btc scammed from people stupid enough to believe him once again.
The project is entirely doomed no matter what he does or does not because of the huge amount of coin they still own and the fact the team split makes it even more dangerous for the investor.

So keeping the project alive will just hurt more people (not him personally  ), so even if walking away isn't easy it would be better for everyone that he walk away, as well as for you especially if you plan to put more btc in it, because they will just disappear.

Actually the only way to move on, would be to make a new coin forgetting completely about the old one (but obviously you won't like the idea  ) which is just a giant trap with too many people waiting to dump.

Sorry but you are screwed as well, and your only way to get out is to convince "investor" so you can dump on them too...
because of all that, that project has absolutely no future...

Assuming it was all a scam. Ask yourself this: What the fck is David still doing here. Why isn't he chilling in Peru with all the scam money he made off it? More importantly, why isn't he running another scam...Crypto is so beautifully fcked up that any Dev with skills like him can become millionaire within months YET he is still here defending his position and protection investors.

Answer is simple: Money isn't his motivation in this and chump like you coming here trying to pull him down is just as pathetic as Bobsurplus running with 500 BTC with no regret whatsoever.

People like you can't see future in crypto and you think of it as pump & dump scheme. For example: Only reason I ever bought into Bay was because of marketplace. I run a business and I'm looking forward to sell my stuff in decentralized marketplace using smart contract with no middleman attached. Whatever money I've invested is LEAST of my worry at this point but since you can't see anything but p&d it's useless to explain it to you.

[dzimbeck]

djm34, you are saying the only way out would have been to turn down the offer. Well yeah easier said then done when they are telling you whatever to get you in, rushing it, etc etc etc.

Its mathematically illogical to accept an offer like that knowing they will try to pocket more btc of your tech.

For example Bobs group ran away with 500 btc + 191(Bob) + 191(Ryan) + whatever they sold in Bay (at least 200 BTC lets say) + whatever they extorted from steven.

So yeah why would i do that, not sell a single baycoin, for a lousy license?! Totally illogical. Many times i asked them that i didnt want anyone profiting off my name it was my primary concern by far. I went into the deal cautiously because there was 4 others and felt that bter holding on to funds should be secure. Of course that assumption was incorrect.

Yeah so, like was said, you step into the garbage, and then are forced to clean up someone elses mess.

Correction: Bobs Group didn`t run away with FUCK all - you keep saying bobs group this and that, the facts are the group got FUCK all from BAY - stop with this.

KITEY THANK YOU FOR THE CORRECTION. Yes this is correct(correcting the post). Although dont forget, they keep deleting your groups posts too. The last thing Bob wants is for you guys to speak out on whats really going on and you guys should. You all have the most knowledge after all.

[KronenbergsSister]

djm34, you are saying the only way out would have been to turn down the offer. Well yeah easier said then done when they are telling you whatever to get you in, rushing it, etc etc etc.

Its mathematically illogical to accept an offer like that knowing they will try to pocket more btc of your tech.

For example Bobs group ran away with 500 btc + 191(Bob) + 191(Ryan) + whatever they sold in Bay (at least 200 BTC lets say) + whatever they extorted from steven.

So yeah why would i do that, not sell a single baycoin, for a lousy license?! Totally illogical. Many times i asked them that i didnt want anyone profiting off my name it was my primary concern by far. I went into the deal cautiously because there was 4 others and felt that bter holding on to funds should be secure. Of course that assumption was incorrect.

Yeah so, like was said, you step into the garbage, and then are forced to clean up someone elses mess.

Correction: Bobs Group didn`t run away with FUCK all - you keep saying bobs group this and that, the facts are the group got FUCK all from BAY - stop with this.

KITEY THANK YOU FOR THE CORRECTION. Yes this is correct(correcting the post). Although dont forget, they keep deleting your groups posts too. The last thing Bob wants is for you guys to speak out on whats really going on and you guys should. You all have the most knowledge after all.

zimbeck you lying sack of shit when are you gonna stop. someone from bobs group wrote a long post showing exactly your role in this sorry mess, and how YOU refused to lock up your coins, and YOU stopped the whole pump on Bay.

digicidal has pointed out that you know damn well that YOU got 10% of  the Bay supply based on fake btc and YOU have been lying about it ever since. now YOU are pretending to be best friends with bobs crew who got screwed because YOU refused to escrow that same 10% of ALL BAY COINS IN EXISTENCE, knowing damn well that as long as YOU did that, Bob could not pump, so all the Bay investors crew and non crew alike, got no pump, were fucked,  because YOU were on your own little pussie assed EGO TRIP with your stolen bay (10 % of the supply), refusing to escrow it, so pump was impossible.

You zimbeck are a pathetic self aggrandizing piece of shit LIAR who keeps trying to change the narrative to escape any responsibilty for ANY of this.

Your last posts about "not knowing / not suspecting " that your huge haul of BAY coin - which you have lied about since DAY 1 - was based  on the fake btc going through BTER is a NEW LOW in your long and non-stop career as a LYING SACK OF SHIT.

bob's crew got screwed by bob for sure but it was your ego tripping that stopped bob from pumping after the ico. that made you so happy to fuck with bob. good for you u little drama queen. but you also stopped bob from pushing the price up to 350 - 450 or more.  NO PUMP WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH 10 % of the coins in your sleazy hands, not locked down. all you had to do was escrow the coins with STEVE but no. you were too fucking special. you sad pathetic drama queen  egomaniac.

keep coming on here and twisting the truth Zimbeck. you got nothing better to do. like maybe shut the fuck up and code.  nahhhh you are to busy being a non stop lying sack of shit. saying "kitey thank you for the correction" you make me vomit.  shove your little kiss ass routine up your ass zimbeck, you screwed kitey and everyone else in the crew just as bad as bob. only difference is bob ain't here 24 / 7 trying to pretend he didn't.

[djm34]

...
When i was offered 10% of Bay by Steven, I thought they were buying it with their BTC. Only when the ICO started did I realize that wasnt the case.
My reluctance to expose it earlier (and by the way, I was the one to expose the entire scandal)... my reluctance was that they would do something like this. Anything that I discovered in the ICO phase would damage investors. So to be honest, I was trying to protect everyone involved including investors. I broke my silence because Bob was selling his Bay and provoking me with schill accounts.
...

So you believed they were going to buy that BAY with BTC completely separate from the BTC received during the ICO?  And you believed they were going to buy it after the ICO was completed and unsold coins destroyed, from the open market?

See that's the problem I keep coming back to, because you continue to say that I and other investors were being protected by you - but if Steven offered you BAY at any time prior to or during the ICO... then you were, in fact, defrauding the investors.  I don't mean you wanted to defraud them, or that you designed things to defraud them - simply that your actions (at a minimum) are the very catalyst, which allowed the others to succeed in that fraud!

You keep saying that you were trying to protect the investors, but your decision created the only situation which virtually guaranteed that the investors would be the only ones that lost in the deal.  Not Bob or Ryan, not Steven, not Lin, not you - just everyone else. 

I do not dispute that you were used.  I do not dispute that you had good intentions going in.  Unlike other notable critics, I do not dispute your abilities as a dev, nor the potential of both Halo itself and the BitBay concept as outlined.  In fact, that's exactly why I decided to throw a little BTC your way to support it - despite there being warning signs all over the place.

The problem however, is that you are still partnered with Steven - and he had to know about everything, or else he couldn't have offered you a single BAY in the first place!  (He could have offered you more BTC, and let you buy your own BAY when the markets opened... that would have been perfectly reasonable - and honest).

I do feel sorry for you - and I do hope for everyone's sake that you can make lemonade out of this unholy pile of crap... but I can only come up with two possibilities, even if I assume that you are 100% true to your word now (which is vastly different than your word prior to, during, and even after the ICO):

Possibility 1: Steven is brilliant (but crooked) and was 100% aware of everything from the beginning... thus he knew you were being played - and was fine with that.  Ironically, if he does indeed see BAY as a long term play and not simply a quick buck... then he might be the perfect guy to run a coin on the business side.  After all, he figured out the one way to get everything (including you) and even get rid of all of the other partners - while still keeping control of a majority of the proceeds!

Possibility 2: Steven is utterly retarded (but honest) and easily convinced into committing crimes by strangers, stabbing his friends in the back, and destroying his own business' long-term prospects in the process.  He's also completely clueless about markets, crypto currency, investing, sales, and everything else.  If this is the case, he is the very last person on the planet to which you should continue to tie yourself to, and the last person you want running the business side of anything worth more than a cup of coffee - let alone thousands of BTC.

However, maybe there's a possibility that I'm missing... but I can't come up with one.

Oh and at least you're using a multisig wallet for what's left... hopefully that will prevent both you and Steven from making any weird deals with unknown people again.  If only the investors could hold a third sig... maybe you should work on setting up a system where holders can vote for a community representative to hold a third sig.

Reputation>Money

If he had outlined everything before it had happened..they would kick him out of the team and as a result investors would lose money and thread would turn into fudstorm which is FAR worse than what is happening right now. Everyone would start complaining how they had faith in him and how he betrayed them regardless of him being truthful and honest.

I don't think you understand this but there WAS no way for him to save himself from the shitstorm. In your perspective one thing would be better than other thing but that's far from the truth. Yes, you would be happy but how about other investors? They would start whining about how they lost money. Bob & Gecko were threatening him and his family and asked him not to release any info. He has mentioned lot of times that he wanted to release info but they kept threatening him. It sounds more like he was stuck with something he didn't want to be part of.

You're right that he should've refused the offer of Free Bay but man gotta pay his bills.

I love bagholder gullibility, you have way too much coins to see clearly how screwed you are  That's why all this scam can succeed so easily.

Bob & Gecko threatening him ans his family  Good one, are you competing for the best story telling with Gecko ?
The guy lives in Cambodia (nice to evade prosecution no matter what...) while the 2 other idiots are in Canada ( )

The way to save himself from the shit storm was to walk away from the coin period.
Not doing this doesn't mean he wants to protect the investors, it just means he wants to scam them again.

How do you walk away from shit after stepping on it? It'll get stuck to your shoe and go with you everywhere you go. He is just trying to clean it.

As far as me being a bag holder. He has my full permission to do whatever is necessary to bring those clowns behind the bar for threatening his family. In fact I have 20 BTC+ and I could careless about them if he chose to go that route. Besides all this shitstorm he is still here working on the project when he can just walk away and let crypto die on its own but he chose not to. In fact if I was him I would walk away and bring new coin on monthly basis to scam all of you stupid fcks.

You have no fcking clue about how easy it is to scam people in this shit and if he wanted to scam he could take his profit from Bay and leave it...then come back tomorrow with new name and new coin...scam again and he could do it for as long as he wanted but he chose to stay here to fight for his reputation and investors.

lol, I know it is easy to scam people, because you still believe in the coin no matter what 

The easiest way to walk away would have been to not walk in... Every project which have put large IPO were all scams (not some, just all of them...)
So if you walk in that sort of project, you know very well it will be a scam and you will be part of the scamming team.

may-be he got cold feet at some point, I don't know, but he can't say he didn't know, he always knew it was the scam. He took part of it, in full knowledge of the situation, let you being scammed in full knownledge of the situation and now tries to make you believe that things has changed, knowing it is a big lie again and he and others (ex-)team still have large amount of the coin, they will dump on you or any future "investor" going in.

So keeping his involvement in the coin, will most likely increased the amount of btc scammed from people stupid enough to believe him once again.
The project is entirely doomed no matter what he does or does not because of the huge amount of coin they still own and the fact the team split makes it even more dangerous for the investor.

So keeping the project alive will just hurt more people (not him personally  ), so even if walking away isn't easy it would be better for everyone that he walk away, as well as for you especially if you plan to put more btc in it, because they will just disappear.

Actually the only way to move on, would be to make a new coin forgetting completely about the old one (but obviously you won't like the idea  ) which is just a giant trap with too many people waiting to dump.

Sorry but you are screwed as well, and your only way to get out is to convince "investor" so you can dump on them too...
because of all that, that project has absolutely no future...

Assuming it was all a scam. Ask yourself this: What the fck is David still doing here. Why isn't he chilling in Peru with all the scam money he made off it? More importantly, why isn't he running another scam...Crypto is so beautifully fcked up that any Dev with skills like him can become millionaire within months YET he is still here defending his position and protection investors.

Answer is simple: Money isn't his motivation in this and chump like you coming here trying to pull him down is just as pathetic as Bobsurplus running with 500 BTC with no regret whatsoever.

People like you can't see future in crypto and you think of it as pump & dump scheme. For example: Only reason I ever bought into Bay was because of marketplace. I run a business and I'm looking forward to sell my stuff in decentralized marketplace using smart contract with no middleman attached. Whatever money I've invested is LEAST of my worry at this point but since you can't see anything but p&d it's useless to explain it to you.

So it was a pump and dump    

actually you are more stupid than I first thought. Basically you just say that if someone make you a vague promise of a coin with marketplace with basically no intention to deliver (because this was the marketing plan Bobsurplus sold you), you will keep investing your money in them.

Sorry to be harsh, you are not an angel investor you are just a moron. Buying vague promises against investing into something real is very different, and until you become able to tell the difference. You will continue to lose lots of money (with no regret  ) over pump&dump and the false promises they use to market them.

And again, the price of the IPO was too high to be true, starting a real project doesn't justify such large amount, and actually that should be a big indication that something fishy is going on...

[djm34]

djm34, you are saying the only way out would have been to turn down the offer. Well yeah easier said then done when they are telling you whatever to get you in, rushing it, etc etc etc.

Its mathematically illogical to accept an offer like that knowing they will try to pocket more btc of your tech.

For example Bobs group ran away with 500 btc + 191(Bob) + 191(Ryan) + whatever they sold in Bay (at least 200 BTC lets say) + whatever they extorted from steven.

So yeah why would i do that, not sell a single baycoin, for a lousy license?! Totally illogical. Many times i asked them that i didnt want anyone profiting off my name it was my primary concern by far. I went into the deal cautiously because there was 4 others and felt that bter holding on to funds should be secure. Of course that assumption was incorrect.

Yeah so, like was said, you step into the garbage, and then are forced to clean up someone elses mess.

Correction: Bobs Group didn`t run away with FUCK all - you keep saying bobs group this and that, the facts are the group got FUCK all from BAY - stop with this.

KITEY THANK YOU FOR THE CORRECTION. Yes this is correct(correcting the post). Although dont forget, they keep deleting your groups posts too. The last thing Bob wants is for you guys to speak out on whats really going on and you guys should. You all have the most knowledge after all.

zimbeck you lying sack of shit when are you gonna stop. someone from bobs group wrote a long post showing exactly your role in this sorry mess, and how YOU refused to lock up your coins, and YOU stopped the whole pump on Bay.

digicidal has pointed out that you know damn well that YOU got 10% of  the Bay supply based on fake btc and YOU have been lying about it ever since. now YOU are pretending to be best friends with bobs crew who got screwed because YOU refused to escrow that same 10% of ALL BAY COINS IN EXISTENCE, knowing damn well that as long as YOU did that, Bob could not pump, so all the Bay investors crew and non crew alike, got no pump, were fucked,  because YOU were on your own little pussie assed EGO TRIP with your stolen bay (10 % of the supply), refusing to escrow it, so pump was impossible.

You zimbeck are a pathetic self aggrandizing piece of shit LIAR who keeps trying to change the narrative to escape any responsibilty for ANY of this.

Your last posts about "not knowing / not suspecting " that your huge haul of BAY coin - which you have lied about since DAY 1 - was based  on the fake btc going through BTER is a NEW LOW in your long and non-stop career as a LYING SACK OF SHIT.

bob's crew got screwed by bob for sure but it was your ego tripping that stopped bob from pumping after the ico. that made you so happy to fuck with bob. good for you u little drama queen. but you also stopped bob from pushing the price up to 350 - 450 or more.  NO PUMP WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH 10 % of the coins in your sleazy hands, not locked down. all you had to do was escrow the coins with STEVE but no. you were too fucking special. you sad pathetic drama queen  egomaniac.

keep coming on here and twisting the truth Zimbeck. you got nothing better to do. like maybe shut the fuck up and code.  nahhhh you are to busy being a non stop lying sack of shit. saying "kitey thank you for the correction" you make me vomit.  shove your little kiss ass routine up your ass zimbeck, you screwed kitey and everyone else in the crew just as bad as bob. only difference is bob ain't here 24 / 7 trying to pretend he didn't.

I love those comment of screwed scammers 
lol why should he play along with bobsurplus group while he is not part of the group... 
(if you hire me in a coin and ask me to put my money into the coin, I would probably refuse it too... I am not stupid)

[toknormal]

Possible bottom at 312.

If 1 wk macd picks up from slight double dip we may transit to longer term recovery.

[djm34]

djm34, you are saying the only way out would have been to turn down the offer. Well yeah easier said then done when they are telling you whatever to get you in, rushing it, etc etc etc.

Its mathematically illogical to accept an offer like that knowing they will try to pocket more btc of your tech.

For example Bobs ran away with 500 btc + 191(Bob) + 191(Ryan) + whatever they sold in Bay (at least 200 BTC lets say) + whatever they extorted from steven.

So yeah why would i do that, not sell a single baycoin, for a lousy license?! Totally illogical. Many times i asked them that i didnt want anyone profiting off my name it was my primary concern by far. I went into the deal cautiously because there was 4 others and felt that bter holding on to funds should be secure. Of course that assumption was incorrect.

Yeah so, like was said, you step into the garbage, and then are forced to clean up someone elses mess.

the problem is that you can't clean up the mess and keep the actual coin alive.
The only way to make this project is by creating an entirely new coin to get rid of all the scammers who got into it and will dump in case the coin gets a little value.

[unusualfacts30]

...
When i was offered 10% of Bay by Steven, I thought they were buying it with their BTC. Only when the ICO started did I realize that wasnt the case.
My reluctance to expose it earlier (and by the way, I was the one to expose the entire scandal)... my reluctance was that they would do something like this. Anything that I discovered in the ICO phase would damage investors. So to be honest, I was trying to protect everyone involved including investors. I broke my silence because Bob was selling his Bay and provoking me with schill accounts.
...

So you believed they were going to buy that BAY with BTC completely separate from the BTC received during the ICO?  And you believed they were going to buy it after the ICO was completed and unsold coins destroyed, from the open market?

See that's the problem I keep coming back to, because you continue to say that I and other investors were being protected by you - but if Steven offered you BAY at any time prior to or during the ICO... then you were, in fact, defrauding the investors.  I don't mean you wanted to defraud them, or that you designed things to defraud them - simply that your actions (at a minimum) are the very catalyst, which allowed the others to succeed in that fraud!

You keep saying that you were trying to protect the investors, but your decision created the only situation which virtually guaranteed that the investors would be the only ones that lost in the deal.  Not Bob or Ryan, not Steven, not Lin, not you - just everyone else. 

I do not dispute that you were used.  I do not dispute that you had good intentions going in.  Unlike other notable critics, I do not dispute your abilities as a dev, nor the potential of both Halo itself and the BitBay concept as outlined.  In fact, that's exactly why I decided to throw a little BTC your way to support it - despite there being warning signs all over the place.

The problem however, is that you are still partnered with Steven - and he had to know about everything, or else he couldn't have offered you a single BAY in the first place!  (He could have offered you more BTC, and let you buy your own BAY when the markets opened... that would have been perfectly reasonable - and honest).

I do feel sorry for you - and I do hope for everyone's sake that you can make lemonade out of this unholy pile of crap... but I can only come up with two possibilities, even if I assume that you are 100% true to your word now (which is vastly different than your word prior to, during, and even after the ICO):

Possibility 1: Steven is brilliant (but crooked) and was 100% aware of everything from the beginning... thus he knew you were being played - and was fine with that.  Ironically, if he does indeed see BAY as a long term play and not simply a quick buck... then he might be the perfect guy to run a coin on the business side.  After all, he figured out the one way to get everything (including you) and even get rid of all of the other partners - while still keeping control of a majority of the proceeds!

Possibility 2: Steven is utterly retarded (but honest) and easily convinced into committing crimes by strangers, stabbing his friends in the back, and destroying his own business' long-term prospects in the process.  He's also completely clueless about markets, crypto currency, investing, sales, and everything else.  If this is the case, he is the very last person on the planet to which you should continue to tie yourself to, and the last person you want running the business side of anything worth more than a cup of coffee - let alone thousands of BTC.

However, maybe there's a possibility that I'm missing... but I can't come up with one.

Oh and at least you're using a multisig wallet for what's left... hopefully that will prevent both you and Steven from making any weird deals with unknown people again.  If only the investors could hold a third sig... maybe you should work on setting up a system where holders can vote for a community representative to hold a third sig.

Reputation>Money

If he had outlined everything before it had happened..they would kick him out of the team and as a result investors would lose money and thread would turn into fudstorm which is FAR worse than what is happening right now. Everyone would start complaining how they had faith in him and how he betrayed them regardless of him being truthful and honest.

I don't think you understand this but there WAS no way for him to save himself from the shitstorm. In your perspective one thing would be better than other thing but that's far from the truth. Yes, you would be happy but how about other investors? They would start whining about how they lost money. Bob & Gecko were threatening him and his family and asked him not to release any info. He has mentioned lot of times that he wanted to release info but they kept threatening him. It sounds more like he was stuck with something he didn't want to be part of.

You're right that he should've refused the offer of Free Bay but man gotta pay his bills.

I love bagholder gullibility, you have way too much coins to see clearly how screwed you are  That's why all this scam can succeed so easily.

Bob & Gecko threatening him ans his family  Good one, are you competing for the best story telling with Gecko ?
The guy lives in Cambodia (nice to evade prosecution no matter what...) while the 2 other idiots are in Canada ( )

The way to save himself from the shit storm was to walk away from the coin period.
Not doing this doesn't mean he wants to protect the investors, it just means he wants to scam them again.

How do you walk away from shit after stepping on it? It'll get stuck to your shoe and go with you everywhere you go. He is just trying to clean it.

As far as me being a bag holder. He has my full permission to do whatever is necessary to bring those clowns behind the bar for threatening his family. In fact I have 20 BTC+ and I could careless about them if he chose to go that route. Besides all this shitstorm he is still here working on the project when he can just walk away and let crypto die on its own but he chose not to. In fact if I was him I would walk away and bring new coin on monthly basis to scam all of you stupid fcks.

You have no fcking clue about how easy it is to scam people in this shit and if he wanted to scam he could take his profit from Bay and leave it...then come back tomorrow with new name and new coin...scam again and he could do it for as long as he wanted but he chose to stay here to fight for his reputation and investors.

lol, I know it is easy to scam people, because you still believe in the coin no matter what 

The easiest way to walk away would have been to not walk in... Every project which have put large IPO were all scams (not some, just all of them...)
So if you walk in that sort of project, you know very well it will be a scam and you will be part of the scamming team.

may-be he got cold feet at some point, I don't know, but he can't say he didn't know, he always knew it was the scam. He took part of it, in full knowledge of the situation, let you being scammed in full knownledge of the situation and now tries to make you believe that things has changed, knowing it is a big lie again and he and others (ex-)team still have large amount of the coin, they will dump on you or any future "investor" going in.

So keeping his involvement in the coin, will most likely increased the amount of btc scammed from people stupid enough to believe him once again.
The project is entirely doomed no matter what he does or does not because of the huge amount of coin they still own and the fact the team split makes it even more dangerous for the investor.

So keeping the project alive will just hurt more people (not him personally  ), so even if walking away isn't easy it would be better for everyone that he walk away, as well as for you especially if you plan to put more btc in it, because they will just disappear.

Actually the only way to move on, would be to make a new coin forgetting completely about the old one (but obviously you won't like the idea  ) which is just a giant trap with too many people waiting to dump.

Sorry but you are screwed as well, and your only way to get out is to convince "investor" so you can dump on them too...
because of all that, that project has absolutely no future...

Assuming it was all a scam. Ask yourself this: What the fck is David still doing here. Why isn't he chilling in Peru with all the scam money he made off it? More importantly, why isn't he running another scam...Crypto is so beautifully fcked up that any Dev with skills like him can become millionaire within months YET he is still here defending his position and protection investors.

Answer is simple: Money isn't his motivation in this and chump like you coming here trying to pull him down is just as pathetic as Bobsurplus running with 500 BTC with no regret whatsoever.

People like you can't see future in crypto and you think of it as pump & dump scheme. For example: Only reason I ever bought into Bay was because of marketplace. I run a business and I'm looking forward to sell my stuff in decentralized marketplace using smart contract with no middleman attached. Whatever money I've invested is LEAST of my worry at this point but since you can't see anything but p&d it's useless to explain it to you.

So it was a pump and dump    

actually you are more stupid than I first thought. Basically you just say that if someone make you a vague promise of a coin with marketplace with basically no intention to deliver (because this was the marketing plan Bobsurplus sold you), you will keep investing your money in them.

Sorry to be harsh, you are not an angel investor you are just a moron. Buying vague promises against investing into something real is very different, and until you become able to tell the difference. You will continue to lose lots of money (with no regret  ) over pump&dump and the false promises they use to market them.

And again, the price of the IPO was too high to be true, starting a real project doesn't justify such large amount, and actually that should be a big indication that something fishy is going on...

is dis you?

[djm34]

So it was a pump and dump    

actually you are more stupid than I first thought. Basically you just say that if someone make you a vague promise of a coin with marketplace with basically no intention to deliver (because this was the marketing plan Bobsurplus sold you), you will keep investing your money in them.

Sorry to be harsh, you are not an angel investor you are just a moron. Buying vague promises against investing into something real is very different, and until you become able to tell the difference. You will continue to lose lots of money (with no regret  ) over pump&dump and the false promises they use to market them.

And again, the price of the IPO was too high to be true, starting a real project doesn't justify such large amount, and actually that should be a big indication that something fishy is going on...

is dis you?





[/quote]
may-be who knows...  
However, you probably should start wearing one, because everybody admitted it was a scam (even the scammers involved in it) and you still can't see it...
Buy one, it may help you making money in crypto
 

[Eastbay]

so when is this coin going to be de-listed? its already been disclosed that BTER bought half the damn ICO on there site with fake btc to get free coins and have most likely dumped em on everyone already walking away with most likely 1000+ btc....

EDIT: i know Bob is in Canada and has already been doxxed completely with name/history/ect.. i wonder if anyone is going to try to take him to court like whats going on in Florida? www.coindesk.com/florida-group-faces-fraud-charges-alleged-altcoin-pump-dump/

[toknormal]

The only way to make this project is by creating an entirely new coin to get rid of all the scammers who got into it and will dump in case the coin gets a little value.

If I may say so, that is a completely deluded and wrong remark which is not the least bit thought through.

The coin is "held" by a diverse array of investors, including some of the original "scammers" but also genuine investors who were interested in supporting this project.

Start another coin and you'll just get another "diverse array off investors" including some scammers, pumper & dumpers and genuine interest people.

It's up to the market to sort all this out. So what if scammers dump ? They can only dump into bids and bid liquidity can only appear if some commercial viability emerges in the underlying asset at which point we've come full circle and just negated your original point.

Of all the posts in this entire thread I've read, the only poster I've seen not hell bent on rigging the market in one way or another is the dev himself. He's the only guy who actually seems interested in achieving a valuation based on technical merit of the underlying asset.

The rest of you are just over opinionated armchair columboes, obsessed with who got what when and who's got how much of the coin supply. You'd be more useful at a cockfight than deciding what to do with cryptocurrency project and by the looks of it, most of you are part of the original scam anyway therefore totally unqualified to contribute to any solutions.

It's clear as a f*cking bell to me why the dev didn't speak out earlier, even though it seems elusive to most on here.

Sitting behind a bitcointalk pseudonym and wildly crying "scam" with complete impunity is completely incomparable with crossing the line in a professional context to accuse colleagues of serious misconduct if not outright theft. Of course the guy's going to think twice about doing that because you need cast iron proof for a start, you're not anonymous for a second and if you get it the least bit wrong you've just dug your professional grave for life as a third.

Get over it. There were some hard core thieves involved in all of this - the dev does not appear to have been one of them and now he wants to be allowed to complete the job he was commissioned and paid to do. If he makes a reasonable delivery than the market will start to become more interested in the future than the past and will take care of dumpers.

[Eastbay]

The only way to make this project is by creating an entirely new coin to get rid of all the scammers who got into it and will dump in case the coin gets a little value.

If I may say so, that is a completely deluded and wrong remark which is not the least bit thought through.

The coin is "held" by a diverse array of investors, including some of the original "scammers" but also genuine investors who were interested in supporting this project.

Start another coin and you'll just get another "diverse array off investors" including some scammers, pumper & dumpers and genuine interest people.

It's up to the market to sort all this out. So what if scammers dump ? They can only dump into bids and bid liquidity can only appear if some commercial viability emerges in the underlying asset at which point we've come full circle and just negated your original point.

Of all the posts in this entire thread I've read, the only poster I've seen not hell bent on rigging the market in one way or another is the dev himself. He's the only guy who actually seems interested in achieving a valuation based on technical merit of the underlying asset.

The rest of you are just over opinionated armchair columboes, obsessed with who got what when and who's got how much of the coin supply. You'd be more useful at a cockfight than deciding what to do with cryptocurrency project and by the looks of it, most of you are part of the original scam anyway therefore totally unqualified to contribute to any solutions.

It's clear as a f*cking bell to me why the dev didn't speak out earlier, even though it seems elusive to most on here.

Sitting behind a bitcointalk pseudonym and wildly crying "scam" with complete impunity is completely incomparable with crossing the line in a professional context to accuse colleagues of serious misconduct if not outright theft. Of course the guy's going to f*cking think twice about doing that because you need cast iron proof for a start, you're not anonymous for a second and if you get it the least bit wrong you've just dug your professional grave for life as a third.

Get over it. There were some hard core thieves involved in all of this - the dev does not appear to have been one of them and now he wants to be allowed to complete the job he was commissioned and paid to do. If he makes a reasonable delivery than the market will start to become more interested in the future than the past and will take care of dumpers.

dude, what you have to understand is that the "dev" account, is just an account shared by multiple members (bobsurplus, dzimbeck, ect..) to only post good updates and shit, this isnt a separate person or anything, its the same a-holes who are arguing in the rest of this thread, sorry guys this one is over... time to salvage your btc and move on imo

[KronenbergsSister]

djm34, you are saying the only way out would have been to turn down the offer. Well yeah easier said then done when they are telling you whatever to get you in, rushing it, etc etc etc.

Its mathematically illogical to accept an offer like that knowing they will try to pocket more btc of your tech.

For example Bobs group ran away with 500 btc + 191(Bob) + 191(Ryan) + whatever they sold in Bay (at least 200 BTC lets say) + whatever they extorted from steven.

So yeah why would i do that, not sell a single baycoin, for a lousy license?! Totally illogical. Many times i asked them that i didnt want anyone profiting off my name it was my primary concern by far. I went into the deal cautiously because there was 4 others and felt that bter holding on to funds should be secure. Of course that assumption was incorrect.

Yeah so, like was said, you step into the garbage, and then are forced to clean up someone elses mess.

Correction: Bobs Group didn`t run away with FUCK all - you keep saying bobs group this and that, the facts are the group got FUCK all from BAY - stop with this.

KITEY THANK YOU FOR THE CORRECTION. Yes this is correct(correcting the post). Although dont forget, they keep deleting your groups posts too. The last thing Bob wants is for you guys to speak out on whats really going on and you guys should. You all have the most knowledge after all.

zimbeck you lying sack of shit when are you gonna stop. someone from bobs group wrote a long post showing exactly your role in this sorry mess, and how YOU refused to lock up your coins, and YOU stopped the whole pump on Bay.

digicidal has pointed out that you know damn well that YOU got 10% of  the Bay supply based on fake btc and YOU have been lying about it ever since. now YOU are pretending to be best friends with bobs crew who got screwed because YOU refused to escrow that same 10% of ALL BAY COINS IN EXISTENCE, knowing damn well that as long as YOU did that, Bob could not pump, so all the Bay investors crew and non crew alike, got no pump, were fucked,  because YOU were on your own little pussie assed EGO TRIP with your stolen bay (10 % of the supply), refusing to escrow it, so pump was impossible.

You zimbeck are a pathetic self aggrandizing piece of shit LIAR who keeps trying to change the narrative to escape any responsibilty for ANY of this.

Your last posts about "not knowing / not suspecting " that your huge haul of BAY coin - which you have lied about since DAY 1 - was based  on the fake btc going through BTER is a NEW LOW in your long and non-stop career as a LYING SACK OF SHIT.

bob's crew got screwed by bob for sure but it was your ego tripping that stopped bob from pumping after the ico. that made you so happy to fuck with bob. good for you u little drama queen. but you also stopped bob from pushing the price up to 350 - 450 or more.  NO PUMP WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH 10 % of the coins in your sleazy hands, not locked down. all you had to do was escrow the coins with STEVE but no. you were too fucking special. you sad pathetic drama queen  egomaniac.

keep coming on here and twisting the truth Zimbeck. you got nothing better to do. like maybe shut the fuck up and code.  nahhhh you are to busy being a non stop lying sack of shit. saying "kitey thank you for the correction" you make me vomit.  shove your little kiss ass routine up your ass zimbeck, you screwed kitey and everyone else in the crew just as bad as bob. only difference is bob ain't here 24 / 7 trying to pretend he didn't.

I love those comment of screwed scammers 
lol why should he play along with bobsurplus group while he is not part of the group... 
(if you hire me in a coin and ask me to put my money into the coin, I would probably refuse it too... I am not stupid)

did'nt get screwed on this one i got out.

i tell you why he should have played along, listen careful follow the bouncing ball:

bobby's role was to "market" the the coin.  THAT INCLUDED PUMPING IT.

you think bobby had 20% just cuz steve and zimbeck thought he was a nice guy?

the pump was part of the whole plan!!!!

that's why bob was on board!!!!!  so fuck yea zimbeck shoulda been playing team ball.  BUT NO; THE LITTLE DRAMA QUEEN PUT HIS OWN LITTLE EGO FIRST.

'then zimbeck has the balls to come in here and say bob did not do his part. when it was zimbeck that prevented the pump. so guys like kitey and all the 'legit ' investors who bought his coin all got screwed by his little ego trip.

as for your second point - THEY NEVER ASKED ZIMBECK TO BUY.  THEY JUST GAVE HIM FREE, STOLEN COINS -  10% OF THE ENTIRE SUPPLY - AND HE SAID OK. THEN LIED ABOUT IT FROM THAT DAY FORWARD. INCLUDING LYING HERE JUST HOURS AGO; SAYING HE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO BUY THE COINS AT ICO PRICE AND GIVE THE TO HIM. He is treating you people like idiots. It is unbelievable.

go read his BC posts from those early days of BAY. Everyone was asking him what his cut in bay was.  He lies, he lies, he lies.

look i don't give a shit i did not loose money. but it's plain as day BAY would not be at 60 sat right now except for zimbecks little 14 year old teen queen posturing when it came time to pump it after the ico. you can moralize all you want but a massive pump was part of the BAY plan from day 1 and zimbeck knew about it and he took his ico money knowing about it and then he fucked it it up for his own little ego driven reasons. and guess who got screwed, u can bet yer sweet ass it wasn't zimbeck.

[Bobsurplus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiDYcYsNFNg

Everybody knows the dice are loaded!

[toknormal]

dude, what you have to understand is that the "dev" account, is just an account shared by multiple members (bobsurplus, dzimbeck, ect..) to only post good updates and shit, this isnt a separate person or anything, its the same a-holes who are arguing in the rest of this thread, sorry guys this one is over... time to salvage your btc and move on imo

w.t.f. are you talking about ?

I didn't even mention the "dev" account. I was making a point about professional accountability and how markets work.

[Eastbay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiDYcYsNFNg

Everybody knows the dice are loaded!

keep your head down

EDIT: u read the "story of bob surplus" thread, fucking classic

[Eastbay]

dude, what you have to understand is that the "dev" account, is just an account shared by multiple members (bobsurplus, dzimbeck, ect..) to only post good updates and shit, this isnt a separate person or anything, its the same a-holes who are arguing in the rest of this thread, sorry guys this one is over... time to salvage your btc and move on imo

w.t.f. are you talking about ?

I didn't even mention the "dev" account. I was making a point about professional accountability and how markets work.

I thought u meant the dev account when you spoke of the "dev". I was just explaining that the dev didnt speak out earlier because THEY are the devs and the dev account is just a shill essentially.

It's clear as a f*cking bell to me why the dev didn't speak out earlier, even though it seems elusive to most on here. I like men.

[RJF]

dude, what you have to understand is that the "dev" account, is just an account shared by multiple members (bobsurplus, dzimbeck, ect..) to only post good updates and shit, this isnt a separate person or anything, its the same a-holes who are arguing in the rest of this thread, sorry guys this one is over... time to salvage your btc and move on imo

w.t.f. are you talking about ?

I didn't even mention the "dev" account. I was making a point about professional accountability and how markets work.

They sing the same words no matter the tune for they know nothing else. Just gotta laugh and feel sorry for them...

[digicidal]

Buy one, it may help you making money in crypto
 

Well, I'm definitely determined to stay far away from the rest of this 'discussion' now, but I had to just throw this out because it seemed applicable (and depressing, I should add):

On one hand count the coins you know that have never seen significant market manipulation, and yet have a positive current value compared to 1 year ago. (This doesn't count for coins less than 2 months old... they might just be gearing up in that case).

Got both of them? (LOL j/k there might be 5... I just can't come up with more than 2).

Now on your other hand, count the coins that you've made profits on (or could have if you'd cashed out) in the past two weeks that were obviously a PnD scheme that you merely happened to get prior to the pump... if you trade much at all - I bet you've already got your five for that hand.  

The obvious point it that crypto is completely sick with these schemes... including BTC.  I'm not suggesting I have the solution - I don't.  It's clear from past history that while regulation will almost certainly not prevent all of the fraud - it will likely kill almost all of the incentive for many that are actively developing... especially in areas that by definition are completely anti-regulation in nature (like truly anon coins and decentralized markets).  

Under which laws would you regulate anyway... the UN's?  I know what the US government would say... but I also know the rest of the world is sick of us going all "super-cop" on every other country's citizens too!  That and our regulators aren't smart enough to figure out the stock market very well... I can only imagine how good they would be at regulating something they really don't get.

So free markets aren't working, anarchy isn't working, regulation won't work, etc.  What are we going to actually do about it? I realize that all markets (including regulated ones) are full of scams - not like Madoff, Worldcomm, Enron, Bear Stearns, etc. happened under the radar these past several years.

My final (rhetorical) question:  If cryptocurrencies don't change a majority (or even minority) of the downsides to fiat and traditional financial instrments... why are we here then?  Hopefully, your answer is better than mine at the moment.