GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[KeyserSoze]

How deeply was Stuart Fraser involved?

fist deep

[Paul Revere]

I just figured out that almost all of the valuable information in the emails is in PDF form. Corporate structure (operating structure and functional structure), payroll, retainer letters, invoices, building plans, settlement agreements, all sorts of stuff. I might have to find some mbox importer that will decode the PDFs on the fly for me. I've been doing everything by hand, and that's kind of a pain when it comes to decoding base64 PDFs.

I have been using this Mbox viewer. Free and it works. Windows program. If you scroll to the bottom of an open Email it lists all attachments. Just click on them and they will open.  I was using FreeMboxviewer and it had better features, like file sorting and such- but that one crashed when trying to load the big Mbox files. Someone else mentioned Thunderbird for Mbox viewing, I have not tried that yet.

[TheMage]

So.. if the SEC decides paycoin were an unregistered security... how does that work?  For example, if you sell unregistered stocks in a company, do they declare the stock invalid? It seems that Josh is probably sitting on a couple million paycoins and even if he gets convicted of anything, he stands to walk away with a hefty chunk of money when everything has died down.

As soon as hosted miners went "virtual," they became an unregistered security, a securitization of whatever operations were generating the income.

We now know all Hashlets were unregistered securites, too.

I don't think Paycoin is. If it is, that means bitcoin is, which means a world of hurt for any legit bitcoin company.

I imagine after he's convicted, there will be a civil suit. I'm not sure how enforcing a judgement/settlement works, but it may be difficult for him to extract money if he owes it in a court action. Coinbase and Cryptsy are both US Companies. He'd have to find a venue for selling his BTC/XPY, and the email record shows that he's burned a lot of those bridges.

I believe (although im not expert) the SEC is going to slap him not with the fact paycoin exists or that he was selling them as an IPO/ICO, but rather that he promised a floor of $20 when he knew it would not work out well. As far as what will happen, I think its all going to be covered in civil suits, not sure the SEC will be involved in helping those that got defrauded other than those who file suits can reference the SEC case.



In other news, looks like my statement got picked up in a few more places.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/litecoin-association-director-urges-paycoin-community-put-foot/

http://cointelegraph.uk/news/114001/andrew-vegetabile-aka-the-real-mage-calls-on-xpy-community-to-take-their-coin-back-from-gaw-is-still-up-for-live-debate-with-josh-garza-of-paycoin

[verloren]

such a stand up guy. muggles are not worthy of his 'charity'
cantor fitzgerald lost like 500 people that day, maybe stuart fraser should take a look in the mirror and punch him self in the nuts

 How deeply was Stuart Fraser involved?

You would need to measure Homero's schlong to know that. 

 Stu was/is a partner in GAW. I have seen different percentages of ownership bandied about, but he was the principle monetary backer, at least early on.

That's the feeling I get too. I have no idea how involved he's been lately, especially with the emails asking how certain charges were racked up on ccs.

[inspirone1]

such a stand up guy. muggles are not worthy of his 'charity'
cantor fitzgerald lost like 500 people that day, maybe stuart fraser should take a look in the mirror and punch him self in the nuts

 How deeply was Stuart Fraser involved?

You would need to measure Homero's schlong to know that. 

 Stu was/is a partner in GAW. I have seen different percentages of ownership bandied about, but he was the principle monetary backer, at least early on.

That's the feeling I get too. I have no idea how involved he's been lately, especially with the emails asking how certain charges were racked up on ccs.

 You have to wonder how much josh actually pulled out of this or if he just blew it all as it came in. I also question how much he had initially before this whole debacle.  (he claims to of been a millionaire prior to this)

[bumpershot]

The great thing about the email dump is that it starts back when I'm almost 100% certain GAW Miners was a legit company. They actually hosted physical miners that people bought. They dropshipped, sure, but they were upfront about it. There was a little C&D bullying, but nothing like what came later.

Garza looked like he tried to be a good CEO, too. He was pissed when he got word of customer service fails in his company. He educated his executives. He had something called a business plan.

Then, they decided to make the hosted miners virtual. He just took that and owned being a scammer. Suddenly, the emails are about bullying people or guilting people into shutting up or dropping claims. He started cutting pay and overpromising equity. It's like once they decided to lie to their customers, all bets were off, and everything became part of a game to extract as much value from everyone as possible.

He's just an amazing character. He deserves a biopic more than an episode of American Greed. He got so brazen so quickly, and he's been able to maintain it for so long, that this scam deserves a place in scam history.

[galdur]

Okay, a major Wall St. junk yard is involved or at least a partner of said yard. This means that the SEC, Wall St.´s property, will maybe fine Mr. Garza a cent on the dollar in a few years.

[Paul Revere]

The great thing about the email dump is that it starts back when I'm almost 100% certain GAW Miners was a legit company. They actually hosted physical miners that people bought. They dropshipped, sure, but they were upfront about it. There was a little C&D bullying, but nothing like what came later.

Garza looked like he tried to be a good CEO, too. He was pissed when he got word of customer service fails in his company. He educated his executives. He had something called a business plan.

Then, they decided to make the hosted miners virtual. He just took that and owned being a scammer. Suddenly, the emails are about bullying people or guilting people into shutting up or dropping claims. He started cutting pay and overpromising equity. It's like once they decided to lie to their customers, all bets were off, and everything became part of a game to extract as much value from everyone as possible.

He's just an amazing character. He deserves a biopic more than an episode of American Greed. He got so brazen so quickly, and he's been able to maintain it for so long, that this scam deserves a place in scam history.

* Small error about Josh starting out legit. Josh made his plans crystal clear before he started GAWminers. Get people hooked in and build trust with legit hardware sales, and then hold back hardware deliveries and switch to "virtual mining"- aka pure Ponzi mode. The whole thing was planned from day -1. Paycoin was cooked up after the Hashlet Ponzi began to crash last fall.

P.S: This post details the plan up to creating a hosting center for sold hardware instead of delivering it. GAW may or may not (probably not) have had some real mining early on, but then it went full Ponzi. It could be argued that it was only 99% Ponzi with a small fraction of mining, but gauging by the BTC purchase to make Hashlet Payout and Payroll Emails it is clear that very little, if any, real mining was done.

Trololoolo
https://i.imgur.com/fTvQxRb.png

Where is this from? Do you have a full quote?

I found it on KNC forum...
You have to search for member and enter the CAPTCHA, it won't let me archive it

 http://forum.kncminer.com/search?searchJSON=%7B%22author%22%3A%5B%22joshg21%22%5D%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22relevance%22%3A%22desc%22%7D%2C%22view%22%3A%22%22%2C%22exclude_type%22%3A%5B%22vBForum_PrivateMessage%22%5D%7D&btnSubmit=&humanverify%5Binput%5D=SyYMEB&humanverify%5Bhash%5D=50a9715190b9d4184e4ca2f07b2a9134&humanverify%5Binput%5D=SyYMEB&humanverify%5Bhash%5D=50a9715190b9d4184e4ca2f07b2a9134

Edit: Golden. "josg21" is the username.

WOW... I thought what I posted was all that was there... Holy shit, you hit gold. I am searching something else and will post when found!

[bumpershot]

* Small error about Josh starting out legit. Josh made his plans crystal clear before he started GAWminers. Get people hooked in and build trust with legit hardware sales, and then hold back hardware deliveries and switch to "virtual mining"- aka pure Ponzi mode. The whole thing was planned from day -1. Paycoin was cooked up after the Hashlet Ponzi began to crash last fall.

Fair point. I can see how it could be legit to start with the intention of scamming everyone in the medium-term.

[mutha]

The great thing about the email dump is that it starts back when I'm almost 100% certain GAW Miners was a legit company. They actually hosted physical miners that people bought. They dropshipped, sure, but they were upfront about it. There was a little C&D bullying, but nothing like what came later.

Garza looked like he tried to be a good CEO, too. He was pissed when he got word of customer service fails in his company. He educated his executives. He had something called a business plan.

Then, they decided to make the hosted miners virtual. He just took that and owned being a scammer. Suddenly, the emails are about bullying people or guilting people into shutting up or dropping claims. He started cutting pay and overpromising equity. It's like once they decided to lie to their customers, all bets were off, and everything became part of a game to extract as much value from everyone as possible.

He's just an amazing character. He deserves a biopic more than an episode of American Greed. He got so brazen so quickly, and he's been able to maintain it for so long, that this scam deserves a place in scam history.

Nah he is a rank amature, about all his scam deserves is his photo on post office walls. I have run the math in my head, from what I have seen on here and I have his total take set at a low end of $8 to 9,000,000 and high end of $15,000,000. He pissed most of that away like a monkey would with shiny trinkets, cars, private jets and general useless bullshit to stroke his image as a big wheel. I suspect he probably has less than $4,000,000 left and is deploying 50% of that to set up another scam in another name, in another country, the rest trying to live on. When the shit hits the fan he will end up spending that, bartering what is left to lawyers to try and keep his dumb ass out of prison... or his wife will file for divorce and claim it or even mistress may make a claim on it and when he throws them under the bus then he will have more legal fees. He thinks hiding in a non extradition country and off shore accounts and things like that will save him but it wont. The Federal Marshal run snatch and grabs all the time Overseas when a Federal Warrant is served. Also the banks even Euro banks now operate under a series of Homeland Security Laws and International Banking laws... so they know what where when and how much goes off shore. Look at what happened to Switzerland banking recently.

In the end he will be worse off than where he started..... thats how scammers always end up. My gut is telling me we will be reading about his "Suicide" shortly, but I think he will assume another identity and start over. Alot of the scammers do that in order to come back into the US, then a couple of years will pass and he will be busted because he got too arrogant, lazy and think the heat is off.

I could show you how the pro's work things but I suspect he reads this forum closely and I do not want to be giving him any ideas. Its rather fun watching him figure it out for himself, he is not near as smart as he thinks he is. So no ideas, its amature hour and let him play it out like I suspect he will  

[volder]

dickhead 

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:    Re: Car
Date:    Sat, 4 Oct 2014 16:46:16 -0400
From:    Juliette Dunlevy <juliette@geniusesatwork.com>
To:    Josh Garza <josh@btc.com>
CC:    Amber Messer <amber@gawminers.com>



We just talked about this. I got it under control.

On Oct 4, 2014 4:42 PM, "Josh Garza" <josh@btc.com
<mailto:josh@btc.com>> wrote:

    who is handling?

    The only thing I will drive in Vegas is a merci or McLain

    Or an r8

    Thank you for your help in setting everything up

    --
    Sent from Gmail Mobile

Anyone who can't spell McLaren properly shouldn't be allowed near one. I assume he meant the P1 or a Mercedes.

No, he meant the 12C. He started talking to me about mine after he saw I got one. He needed to show me up in Vegas.

[jibble]

They are wrongly throwing the word FUD around so much it might have to be changed to : Factual Undisputed Data

[TracerX]

Garza looked like he tried to be a good CEO, too. He was pissed when he got word of customer service fails in his company. He educated his executives. He had something called a business plan.

Impossible.

[systematicdeception]

Video footage from a recent call Josh had with his lawyers.... Very telling.

[crazyivan]

Video footage from a recent call Josh had with his lawyers.... Very telling.

Again the same question. If he really broke so many laws, how come he s still around?

[holdembot]

Video footage from a recent call Josh had with his lawyers.... Very telling.

Again the same question. If he really broke so many laws, how come he s still around?

Cause no laws were broken in his silly mind until he got caught.

Now the wheels are turning.

[systematicdeception]

Video footage from a recent call Josh had with his lawyers.... Very telling.

Again the same question. If he really broke so many laws, how come he s still around?

Are you familiar with the speed of the US Govt? That's why.

As slow as it is however, it's got the mass and destructive power of a fucking glacier.

[TeamButtcoin]

Video footage from a recent call Josh had with his lawyers.... Very telling.

Again the same question. If he really broke so many laws, how come he s still around?

Investigators like to line up all the evidence for all the charges and make sure they have a solid case for all of them before making arrests and taking it to trial

Federal Prosecutors have an extremely high conviction rate because they do their job thoroughly

[Paul Revere]

Garza looked like he tried to be a good CEO, too. He was pissed when he got word of customer service fails in his company. He educated his executives. He had something called a business plan.

Impossible.

He was pissed at early customer service fails because his business plan was to build up some good will to sucker people into a Ponzi scheme.

[bitillionaire]

Video footage from a recent call Josh had with his lawyers.... Very telling.

Again the same question. If he really broke so many laws, how come he s still around?

It's better to take a long time to build a strong case than it is to act quickly on a weak case. With the level of evidence they have at this point, the government will almost certainly get a plea agreement out of him, saving them time and money, when the time comes.