GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[favdesu]

You do not understand AT ALL, Mage. The number of unique addresses where coins were shuffled in and out of is ridiculous, and growing by the second- it is still going on full force as this is typed. Now you have to include a supposed theft of not only millions of coins, but also Prime Controllers which shit out thousands of coins a day. Which coins are you going to brand as legitimate? And who EXACTLY gets to decide? Josh? The people hand picked by Josh to distance Paycoin from him, as per plan? The "theives" who stole coins and Prime Controllers? What if Josh is tried and found innocent of all charges? THEN what? Are YOU going to pay the fucker back when he sues???  The things you have been suggesting as far as fixing Paycoin are completely fucking absurd and show no aforethought whatsoever. My suggestion is to either spell out an exact plan for your "fix" of Paycoin or never mention it again.

For starters, let me help you with your panties you got in a bunch.  

I dont think I can be more clear on what I stated honestly. I asked some very clear and pointed questions, which I asked because I did not understand what you were getting at. There are very specific wallet addresses that belong to GAW and Josh that can be blacklisted. And all prime controllers from what I understand belong only to a select few to include GAW/Josh.

Fork the code, blacklist those addresses, and remove or blacklist or remove the large staking rate of those specific addresses. What the hell is so hard to understand? What does a transaction have to do with a unique address?

I never said anything about specific coins, I think this is where you are misunderstanding me.

The honest party (if there's one at all) should just make a new coin, blacklist primes and known Garza addresses and honor an airdrop to every paycoin holder.

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[kken01]

For starters, let me help you with your panties you got in a bunch. 

I dont think I can be more clear on what I stated honestly. I asked some very clear and pointed questions, which I asked because I did not understand what you were getting at. There are very specific wallet addresses that belong to GAW and Josh that can be blacklisted. And all prime controllers from what I understand belong only to a select few to include GAW/Josh.

Fork the code, blacklist those addresses, and remove or blacklist or remove the large staking rate of those specific addresses. What the hell is so hard to understand? What does a transaction have to do with a unique address?

I never said anything about specific coins, I think this is where you are misunderstanding me.

there is no support from the community to blacklist all PC's and no evidence (at least not enough to make conclusions) that current majority of PC holders have good intentions. it could just be an act to minimize Garzas toxicity on their investment and payroll. actually there was not enough support among the current ruling "elite" about the staking rates of these wallets and compromise of 100% was reached. pulled directly from someones ass, no math behind it

the only people promising dev work are the PC people. you will never get them and/or PC wallets out of the picture unless you have another choice of devs

[miaviator]

I was under the impression that anyone could update and fork any coin at any time.   IE I could release a new wallet update that removes prime nodes and removes any remaining "we will not premine"~HG coins. 

If that release gains network consensus or exchange consensus it will become the primary fork and everyone elses transactions will become orphaned.

Unless there was some change to open source and p2p networks recently?   

[Franz_Huber]

Oh, and GAWCEO says he's in Vermont now.

You sure he didn't misspell that? Maybe he meant Fairmont hotel.
http://www.fairmont.com/dubai/

Nope, he says he's in Vermont

https://hashtalk.org/topic/36768/around

https://archive.today/ZSnuy

5 GB of his fraudulent business emails and personal stuff leaked, but Garza "has "chosen not to get involved". Ahahahahahahaha! Too busy inventing the next scam?

[Crestington]

I wonder how long it will be until they just ban Josh's Coins?

I should point out that you can render certain addresses useless quite easily with just a few lines of code...


https://github.com/gaodaochu/dicecoin/commit/ca91e22a754ff8723d21a2edc8279c95eb8b08fa

I wonder when folks are going to wake up and realize he isn't entitled to anything.  This so called new group of Matlack's is allowing it too.

I don't really know this new group, it's kinda weird, tomorrow is the Hardfork is it not? You get to choose between GAW's version and this new group who would have increased Staking but atleast theirs fixes an issue. Is this what it comes down to? With all that money that came in and all the stuff he bought, Josh couldn't take some time to fix some problems? Is it that hard to just do a small amount of work and pay someone a couple hundred bucks?

Warren Buffet was famous for living in modest quarters, he would often drive his own car so that he would not have to pay a chaffeau, and why get someone else to do it if you can do it yourself?

[jimmothy]

You do not understand AT ALL, Mage. The number of unique addresses where coins were shuffled in and out of is ridiculous, and growing by the second- it is still going on full force as this is typed. Now you have to include a supposed theft of not only millions of coins, but also Prime Controllers which shit out thousands of coins a day. Which coins are you going to brand as legitimate? And who EXACTLY gets to decide? Josh? The people hand picked by Josh to distance Paycoin from him, as per plan? The "theives" who stole coins and Prime Controllers? What if Josh is tried and found innocent of all charges? THEN what? Are YOU going to pay the fucker back when he sues???  The things you have been suggesting as far as fixing Paycoin are completely fucking absurd and show no aforethought whatsoever. My suggestion is to either spell out an exact plan for your "fix" of Paycoin or never mention it again.

For starters, let me help you with your panties you got in a bunch.  

I dont think I can be more clear on what I stated honestly. I asked some very clear and pointed questions, which I asked because I did not understand what you were getting at. There are very specific wallet addresses that belong to GAW and Josh that can be blacklisted. And all prime controllers from what I understand belong only to a select few to include GAW/Josh.

Fork the code, blacklist those addresses, and remove or blacklist or remove the large staking rate of those specific addresses. What the hell is so hard to understand? What does a transaction have to do with a unique address?

I never said anything about specific coins, I think this is where you are misunderstanding me.

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

[Crestington]

I wonder how long it will be until they just ban Josh's Coins?

I should point out that you can render certain addresses useless quite easily with just a few lines of code...


https://github.com/gaodaochu/dicecoin/commit/ca91e22a754ff8723d21a2edc8279c95eb8b08fa

You can do that, but you probably shouldn't. Would you buy a coin that someone can (and has) just take away that simply?

It's possible to fork a coin and rob somebody, but why would anyone "invest" in a coin when it's been proven that it's simple to just take them away?

I believe extenuating circumstances such as Paycoin, where its birth was created within a company that has failed at levels in which any board or investor would have crucified long ago.

A [hard] fork is a fork, and should not be taken lightly. It's not like a fork will happen every day and there is the potential of having multiple people put on the "blacklist". Getting a fork to get integrated smoothly is NOT an easy task. I helped Dogecoin when AUXPoW was done, and let me tell you there are a hell of a lot of more people than you can imagine just on the non-person side to get a hold of to ensure it goes over well.


So perhaps I should tell you to go fork yourself  (a little fork joke ).

How exactly would the "bad" addresses and "people" be determined? I for one do not see how it is possible, especially with a clusterfuck like Paycoin where the one thing Josh has been doing with proficiency is mixing millions of coins since day 1. Now there are supposedly millions of coins "stolen" and in the hands of "hackers" . Who exactly decides which coins are to be kept and which eliminated? The people who supposedly did the theft? I have heard repeatedly that you are one of the "best" people in the crypto world, but hearing such complete and utter nonsense about fixing Paycoin come from you makes me think otherwise.

Well thanks for the compliment (I think? lol).


So explain to me because I am apparently ignorant of what a prime controller really is, is it not basically a hyperstaking wallet set to stake well beyond the 5% (100% to 350% at compounding interest)? A wallet with an address attached to it? And there are what, maybe 50 of them in existence (which can be accounted for in the core code)?

This is the assumption I am going off of, I'm not a developer but I certainly understand the fundamentals of mining and networks, PoW and PoS. To me, and again maybe I do not understand the core code of paycoin, but one can use snippets of LukeJr's code to blacklist those prime controllers to "destroy" them. This is just one of a few ways to deal with the situation.


Back to your main concern, there is the blockchain which you have personally and vigorously linked to multiple addresses belonging to GAW/Josh. Also Crypsty has information on those wallets, and with the proper leg work and perhaps persuasion they could release that information of their internal addresses to a blockchain investigator and potentially be backtracked to GAW addresses(depending on how their back end architecture was done). There is also emails which dictate certain addresses belong to GAW/Josh.


There are many ways to get the information, you of all people should know that considering how well you have been following the blockchain. There are also ways to vet the information as well.


If I am wrong, please let me know. I would be curious to know if there are any wrong assumptions here.


EDIT: Whatever is done to try to fix will never be perfect and I understand that, but there are ways to attempt to fix things as best as possible.

How is a hardfork hard to do? Just look at it like this.

Josh didn't pay anything for the Coins he acquired and there is proof that he spent millions of dollars of investor funds on meaningless stuff (oops )

You just put a Hardfork in and freeze the Prime Controllers that are his, you could unfreeze them later if you really wanted. So many are just pondering of all these things while Coins get dumped, I've heard suggestions about just pulling market orders but that wouldn't work, people would still buy. The only option then is to just lock his Coins because you can lock him out if you want to.

I'm pretty sure if you have over 51% you could do it at any time.

[miaviator]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

[kken01]

I was under the impression that anyone could update and fork any coin at any time.   IE I could release a new wallet update that removes prime nodes and removes any remaining "we will not premine"~HG coins.  

If that release gains network consensus or exchange consensus it will become the primary fork and everyone elses transactions will become orphaned.

Unless there was some change to open source and p2p networks recently?  

due to toxicity of the coin the only people left to give it any support (dev, marketing, etc) are the PC holders who JUST made an agreement about 100% stake so they are not going the route of eliminating the golden gooses.

just because you put lipstick on the pig and say HEY anyone can start fork in the spirit of open source, yes thats true but its not reality. network consensus will be dictated by these entities for the foreseeable future. just as was outlined in Mr. Garzas sick mind

 
edit:
im not saying that these people do not have good intentions and maybe they will lower the stake later on. who knows. but for now it doesnt look too good. investing any money before that issue is under control  is a non-starter imo

[jimmothy]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

[Crestington]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

If there is extra and some people get banned by mistake then you just reimburse them from the other Coins.

[bitpop]

Straight From the Donkey's Mouth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rmkSagiwss

What's striking is how low these salaries are across the board. Especially with the other numbers we've seen. Unless there's some massive crypto payments going on or some large bonuses (either of which might be true for Capuano or Mordica), this is really just a vehicle to make Josh rich.

There was one email a while back that articulated BTC payments to a few of the principals. Anyone have that? It might give us a window into total compensation.

Lots of words, 0 meaning

[jimmothy]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

If there is extra and some people get banned by mistake then you just reimburse them from the other Coins.

What other coins?

[miaviator]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

Every coin in every prime controller is from the premine.  Customer coins do not mix with prime controllers. (6 million coins?)

I don't think GAW holds any customer coins today.  There was a contract floating around with numbers between the development co and GAW.

The other issue no one is pushing is the 15 Prime Controllers no one is admitting ownership of.  Phil, Mineral, Coinstand, Josh, Senators, Terrorists, Who owns them and why won't they come forward?  Did they pay for the Controllers?

[Crestington]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

If there is extra and some people get banned by mistake then you just reimburse them from the other Coins.

What other coins?

I think the question is who has what? The almighty Blockchain could answer that.

[Crestington]

The part you're missing is that GAW's coins and 99% of their customers coins are all intermingled in the Prime Controller addresses. (If GAW's numbers are to be believed, they are holding ~3 million customer coins.)

There's a good chance that GAW owns more coins in non-prime controller addresses than customers do. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh owns 1000+ addresses with medium/small balances. After all, they do put tons of effort in to obfuscating the blockchain.

Wrong.

Please elaborate.

Every coin in every prime controller is from the premine.  Customer coins do not mix with prime controllers. (6 million coins?)

I don't think GAW holds any customer coins today.  There was a contract floating around with numbers between the development co and GAW.

The other issue no one is pushing is the 15 Prime Controllers no one is admitting ownership of.  Phil, Mineral, Coinstand, Josh, Senators, Terrorists, Who owns them and why won't they come forward?  Did they pay for the Controllers?

Spot on, you just need transparency, once you have that then you can make decisions on how much of what address or Prime Controller could be banned.

[bitpop]

https://twitter.com/serioiusInvest/status/590057356538556416
@serioiusInvest: #mrganza is to meet with fans in top of local hill. Wonder if fans will bring rope. https://t.co/6HrMrGddF2

[bubbaj]

What I can't believe is how many posts are dedicated to Pay Coin, the funny thing is that the community that was initially built from GAW products was a good one, they raised money for people and generally put Crypto into a good place. It was not until hashlets that the problem started to unravel and the promise of never ending mining. Now I did buy in initially and converted all of my "Hardware". I sold an account at a very good profit. I know of several others who did so as well.

This was never going to end well, GAW would of been better off having a POW coin and point any mining power to the new coin. Once the white paper started to change and the details started to change I suspect a lot of people realized that they were screwed.

After selling my first account due to the obvious questions I had about mining power I did buy in again but only with profit and nothing else, I sold my paycoin at the very beginning of Pay Base for a price between $20 and $8.00.

No one needed to lose but people got greedy, the thing that is the biggest shame is that the GAW community was one of the better ones when it first kicked off. Had of Josh just stayed with mining he would of been able to have the end of mining life by know, the only problem was he did not have the miners to send to those whom may of requested them. 

[bitpop]

Perianne is a bimbo

[energico]

I was under the impression that anyone could update and fork any coin at any time.   IE I could release a new wallet update that removes prime nodes and removes any remaining "we will not premine"~HG coins. 

If that release gains network consensus or exchange consensus it will become the primary fork and everyone elses transactions will become orphaned.

Unless there was some change to open source and p2p networks recently?   

It's not that simple.

It's not like a vending machine where anyone can walk up and insert a coin, it's like a concert stage where "anyone" can play music, subject to preapproval. Gaining the approval is the hard part. Anyone can attempt to fork, but one of two things has to happen:

1. You get approval from the person/people who own(s) the Paycoin repo on Github to approve your fork, after which all people using that source code now use your version; or,
2. You take the code, change it, and release it yourself. You then have to convince people to download and use your software. Once enough people convert (i.e. consensus is achieved), your software will be the official version.

This means you either have to convince the Paycoin devs to accept your fork (which definitely would not happen if you were trying to take away their ownership/control of Paycoin), or you have to manually convince tons of people to trust your code, download it, and use it. But guess what? Nobody would migrate to the software -- for a multitude of reasons -- mostly because of the fact that the act would seem super sketchy and none of those fucktards would be able to decipher the difference in the code. Compound this with the fact that it will be a direct power play against the current devs (if it weren't you would've just gone through them to make the changes), and you have another clusterfuck of insanity on your hands.

Cryptocurrency isn't as decentralized as you think it is, especially when we are talking about Paycoin.

However, there is one way you could get around this entire system: create an entirely new "Paycoin" community, beginning with your source code. In order for this to work you would just do the second option above and then, rather than convincing the old paycoiners to move to your software, you just convince new ones to join your Paycoin system. This might work, especially considering how many people want the original controllers of Paycoin to die in a pit of fire, but it would still be difficult -- honestly who the fuck would want to deal with Paycoin at this point?

Personally I would advise nobody to invest time, money or effort into Paycoin. There is nothing to gain and everything to lose.