GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[chunkyjunkie]

Yes he said cnn. He also said times magazine and tweeted a picture of himself in a line there. Pretending to be interviewed. He said he did a media blitz.

Hmm I missed that, but thank you for bringing it up.  Happen to have a link to where he said it? ( Really you might think that is being sarcastic but it isn't.  A link to it, even cached or an unedited screenshot would be a nice post to include here for others in summary of proof )

Also I would further argue that those might still come out later?  Again I never saw him say CNN, but I do believe I saw them say ccn which I quickly thought at the time a little sad to do.  To play on people thinking CNN.  Then again, you can't control CCN that has been blogging/reporting news for a while what name they have on Josh.

[chunkyjunkie]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Hmm new to this thread can someone summarize all the proof about the accusations I see about GAW.  thanks in advance.

I skimmed all the posts and it was mostly Y repeating Z's comment and belief that GAW is a ponzi, or scam for the logical extrapolation that most coins before xpy were scams or ponzi.

If anyone is so inclined to post a reply with links or proof beyond some blog report or personal experience that they of course have no screenshots, emails etc for I would be grateful.
I think a list of all the proof would be more helpful then X,Y or Z posts filled with saving the day comments with no substance.

Waiting... and thank you.

Hey man thanks for you joining us. If we had absolute proof of a ponzi we would already have called the SEC. You are welcome to help us find the truth together though!

Fair enough and an excellent reply.  This type of reply will at least not make me dismiss you out of hand.  

I understand what you are saying though about if there was anything of actual proof it would already be with the authorities.

Was just trying to head it off and see if anyone had some.  That way I could pull back my investments even more as by the time it is officially in law enforcements hands it is probably too late.

Still I feel good about my investment in GAW as they have treated me very well up until now and I have double my original investment locked away safe.  But to be clear that does not take away from people's concerns here going forward, just stating my situation.

Again looking forward to a summary maybe towards the bottom of this now 447 post thread of any proof.

Thanks again for the welcome and civil response.

Ah, do pay attention to the warning signs that they may not know what they're doing, such as paycoin having been down all day! How much money do you have invested there around if you don't mind my asking?

I would argue while not very professional and not a good situation being down today does not equate a ponzi or scam.
Regarding your inquiry to how much I ave invested?  I think that is a little personal but like I said I made over double my money.  Double the original is in the bank.. and more then double the original  is still in.  But I do continually scale down pretty much daily as it climbs.  

I hope that is a satisfactory answer to your question.

So you have more than quadrupled your money? I find that extremely hard to believe. How are calculating whats "still in"?

[chunkyjunkie]

Hmm new to this thread can someone summarize all the proof about the accusations I see about GAW.  thanks in advance.

I skimmed all the posts and it was mostly Y repeating Z's comment and belief that GAW is a ponzi, or scam for the logical extrapolation that most coins before xpy were scams or ponzi.

If anyone is so inclined to post a reply with links or proof beyond some blog report or personal experience that they of course have no screenshots, emails etc for I would be grateful.
I think a list of all the proof would be more helpful then X,Y or Z posts filled with saving the day comments with no substance.

Waiting... and thank you.

That's your problem. Believe homero will give you $20 or not. We don't care if after 444 pages you want to invest.

I think you misunderstand.

I am looking for any proof to be listed and put in one place for people who might not to wade through 444 posts.  Or are you saying of those 444 posts many have proof and facts?  If so I will go start taking a closer look!   

From my quick skimming I saw mostly X agreeing with Y that it had to be a ponzi or scam, well just because! 

You seem to be a shill though

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg9873690#msg9873690

You seem very upset and unwilling to see anything beyond hate blinders and respond like an adult.

I invite you to ignore my posts.  Thank you and good luck to you.

Last reply, you seem to be not genuine. Just "troll hunting"

Troll hunting really?  I agree with people when they bring up good points.  You need to understand what a troll is.

A troll is not just someone who points out valid counterpoints or questions to your thinking and hate fueled agenda and posts.

I see now you are not someone that conversing with will help me, you or the community.  So I respectfully ask you not reply to me unless you find something I say false.

[chunkyjunkie]

Hmm new to this thread can someone summarize all the proof about the accusations I see about GAW.  thanks in advance.

I skimmed all the posts and it was mostly Y repeating Z's comment and belief that GAW is a ponzi, or scam for the logical extrapolation that most coins before xpy were scams or ponzi.

If anyone is so inclined to post a reply with links or proof beyond some blog report or personal experience that they of course have no screenshots, emails etc for I would be grateful.
I think a list of all the proof would be more helpful then X,Y or Z posts filled with saving the day comments with no substance.

Waiting... and thank you.

Hey man thanks for you joining us. If we had absolute proof of a ponzi we would already have called the SEC. You are welcome to help us find the truth together though!

Fair enough and an excellent reply.  This type of reply will at least not make me dismiss you out of hand.  

I understand what you are saying though about if there was anything of actual proof it would already be with the authorities.

Was just trying to head it off and see if anyone had some.  That way I could pull back my investments even more as by the time it is officially in law enforcements hands it is probably too late.

Still I feel good about my investment in GAW as they have treated me very well up until now and I have double my original investment locked away safe.  But to be clear that does not take away from people's concerns here going forward, just stating my situation.

Again looking forward to a summary maybe towards the bottom of this now 447 post thread of any proof.

Thanks again for the welcome and civil response.

Ah, do pay attention to the warning signs that they may not know what they're doing, such as paycoin having been down all day! How much money do you have invested there around if you don't mind my asking?

I would argue while not very professional and not a good situation being down today does not equate a ponzi or scam.
Regarding your inquiry to how much I ave invested?  I think that is a little personal but like I said I made over double my money.  Double the original is in the bank.. and more then double the original  is still in.  But I do continually scale down pretty much daily as it climbs.  

I hope that is a satisfactory answer to your question.

So you have more than quadrupled your money? I find that extremely hard to believe. How are calculating whats "still in"?

You find it hard someone who bought primes at 12.00  and which price got to 60+  ( No I sold in the 40's which primes were at for a month+ )  and who had those primes mining the whole time.....

THEN

Was able to mine hashpoints for a month almost on top of all that and convert all those to xpy who sold at .04  but had I held them all to even .,020 would still witnessed over my original investment in the hashpoint/xpy phase?

I understand I did well.  But in actually if I wanted to claim buying at 12, selling at 60+ and selling xpy exactly when it went to the exchanges my investment would have been closer to 10x.  Trust me I think about had I help the whole time as well.

Edit- But I want to be clear I am not claiming my good fortune takes away from anyone who is claiming Gaw could be a ponzi etc.   Just like I would argue anyone who made bad trades can argue it is because of their lack of experience in trading.

[jimmothy]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Yes he said cnn. He also said times magazine and tweeted a picture of himself in a line there. Pretending to be interviewed. He said he did a media blitz.

Hmm I missed that, but thank you for bringing it up.  Happen to have a link to where he said it? ( Really you might think that is being sarcastic but it isn't.  A link to it, even cached or an unedited screenshot would be a nice post to include here for others in summary of proof )

Also I would further argue that those might still come out later?  Again I never saw him say CNN, but I do believe I saw them say ccn which I quickly thought at the time a little sad to do.  To play on people thinking CNN.  Then again, you can't control CCN that has been blogging/reporting news for a while what name they have on Josh.

Your tone is beyond condescending. You didn't miss anything and you're awful at trying to play dumb. It's as if all of this is all brand new to you YET you've been able to more than quadruple your money. You have paid attention to every little detail in this GAW fiasco otherwise you couldn't possibly have profited like you say. I can smell your bullshit from where I sit. I don't know what your agenda is yet but I wouldn't count out you being sent here to find out what we do know and have us hand it all to you on a plate. Do your own research.

[interstellar]

Hmm new to this thread can someone summarize all the proof about the accusations I see about GAW.  thanks in advance.

I skimmed all the posts and it was mostly Y repeating Z's comment and belief that GAW is a ponzi, or scam for the logical extrapolation that most coins before xpy were scams or ponzi.

If anyone is so inclined to post a reply with links or proof beyond some blog report or personal experience that they of course have no screenshots, emails etc for I would be grateful.
I think a list of all the proof would be more helpful then X,Y or Z posts filled with saving the day comments with no substance.

Waiting... and thank you.

Hey man thanks for you joining us. If we had absolute proof of a ponzi we would already have called the SEC. You are welcome to help us find the truth together though!

Fair enough and an excellent reply.  This type of reply will at least not make me dismiss you out of hand.  

I understand what you are saying though about if there was anything of actual proof it would already be with the authorities.

Was just trying to head it off and see if anyone had some.  That way I could pull back my investments even more as by the time it is officially in law enforcements hands it is probably too late.

Still I feel good about my investment in GAW as they have treated me very well up until now and I have double my original investment locked away safe.  But to be clear that does not take away from people's concerns here going forward, just stating my situation.

Again looking forward to a summary maybe towards the bottom of this now 447 post thread of any proof.

Thanks again for the welcome and civil response.

Ah, do pay attention to the warning signs that they may not know what they're doing, such as paycoin having been down all day! How much money do you have invested there around if you don't mind my asking?

I would argue while not very professional and not a good situation being down today does not equate a ponzi or scam.
Regarding your inquiry to how much I ave invested?  I think that is a little personal but like I said I made over double my money.  Double the original is in the bank.. and more then double the original  is still in.  But I do continually scale down pretty much daily as it climbs.  

I hope that is a satisfactory answer to your question.

If you knew it was a ponzi would you be okay with making all that money? Did you know the law states you can lose the gains from a ponzi? Did you know just because you made a big profit that doesn't mean it's not a ponzi right? Just that you got in early. Later investors will end up the bagholders.

Look at the red flags of a ponzi:

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.
Look at your stakers? 1% ROI per day seem a little high no? And notice apparently there's no worry of getting less or losing your investment. Where is gaw stating the risk? Do you even know what the risk is? CHECK.


Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.
Again there's no sign that cashtakers return will be lower for any reason. GAWCEO stated a stake rate, he didn't say it would vary at all. CHECK

Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.
Gaw is completely unlicensed with SEC or any other fed agency that we know of. They aren't even registered as a MSB even though they are requiring KYC data from customers. This is suspected to be just a stalling tactic to prevent a run on the bank anyway. CHECK

Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.
Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Notice how you can't find any straight info on anything about paycoin on the site? That is actually purposeful. They want customers to remain in a cloud of the unknown. Much easier to change the rules later as they desire if needed. And they actually change the rules all the time. CHECK

Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.
I see the numerous technical problems and failure to live up to their promises as a sign of this. If they were living up to their promises, we wouldn't be here right now. [CHECK]

Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.
Problems with withdrawls at times. Mysterious security issues resulting in stolen BTC so everyone's account is frozen. Announcing paybase will carefully restrict flow of XPY to BTC and $$$. Everyone is encouraged to reinvest and usually do. [CHECK]

Therefore GAW has checked off every single warning box that the federal government provided in determining if an investment may be a ponzi scheme. Now you should read this thread and decide for yourself.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

[chunkyjunkie]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

[bitcoinnoisseur]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Fuck off you condescending prick.

[chunkyjunkie]

Hmm new to this thread can someone summarize all the proof about the accusations I see about GAW.  thanks in advance.

I skimmed all the posts and it was mostly Y repeating Z's comment and belief that GAW is a ponzi, or scam for the logical extrapolation that most coins before xpy were scams or ponzi.

If anyone is so inclined to post a reply with links or proof beyond some blog report or personal experience that they of course have no screenshots, emails etc for I would be grateful.
I think a list of all the proof would be more helpful then X,Y or Z posts filled with saving the day comments with no substance.

Waiting... and thank you.

Hey man thanks for you joining us. If we had absolute proof of a ponzi we would already have called the SEC. You are welcome to help us find the truth together though!

Fair enough and an excellent reply.  This type of reply will at least not make me dismiss you out of hand.  

I understand what you are saying though about if there was anything of actual proof it would already be with the authorities.

Was just trying to head it off and see if anyone had some.  That way I could pull back my investments even more as by the time it is officially in law enforcements hands it is probably too late.

Still I feel good about my investment in GAW as they have treated me very well up until now and I have double my original investment locked away safe.  But to be clear that does not take away from people's concerns here going forward, just stating my situation.

Again looking forward to a summary maybe towards the bottom of this now 447 post thread of any proof.

Thanks again for the welcome and civil response.

Ah, do pay attention to the warning signs that they may not know what they're doing, such as paycoin having been down all day! How much money do you have invested there around if you don't mind my asking?

I would argue while not very professional and not a good situation being down today does not equate a ponzi or scam.
Regarding your inquiry to how much I ave invested?  I think that is a little personal but like I said I made over double my money.  Double the original is in the bank.. and more then double the original  is still in.  But I do continually scale down pretty much daily as it climbs.  

I hope that is a satisfactory answer to your question.

If you knew it was a ponzi would you be okay with making all that money? Did you know the law states you can lose the gains from a ponzi? Did you know just because you made a big profit that doesn't mean it's not a ponzi right? Just that you got in early. Later investors will end up the bagholders.

Look at the red flags of a ponzi:

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.
Look at your stakers? 1% ROI per day seem a little high no? And notice apparently there's no worry of getting less or losing your investment. Where is gaw stating the risk? Do you even know what the risk is? CHECK.


Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.
Again there's no sign that cashtakers return will be lower for any reason. GAWCEO stated a stake rate, he didn't say it would vary at all. CHECK

Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.
Gaw is completely unlicensed with SEC or any other fed agency that we know of. They aren't even registered as a MSB even though they are requiring KYC data from customers. This is suspected to be just a stalling tactic to prevent a run on the bank anyway. CHECK

Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.
Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Notice how you can't find any straight info on anything about paycoin on the site? That is actually purposeful. They want customers to remain in a cloud of the unknown. Much easier to change the rules later as they desire if needed. And they actually change the rules all the time. CHECK

Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.
I see the numerous technical problems and failure to live up to their promises as a sign of this. If they were living up to their promises, we wouldn't be here right now. [CHECK]

Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.
Problems with withdrawls at times. Mysterious security issues resulting in stolen BTC so everyone's account is frozen. Announcing paybase will carefully restrict flow of XPY to BTC and $$$. [CHECK]

Therefore GAW has checked off every single warning box that the federal government provided in determining if an investment may be a ponzi scheme. Now you should read this thread and decide for yourself.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

See now this is a great attempt at proving the ponzi side of the argument!  Thank you very much for the time and effort..

Now for the sake of not making this post equally as long I only see one bullet point I can see as proof of underhanded practices.  That is the lack of filed paperwork.  The rest of the points to me, while they should be considered in everyone individual risk/reward assessments, are not again proof of fraud.

But quickly back to the supposed lack of paperwork ( which I will just take your word for as I would not be an expert on searching for this and reporting the existence or nonexistence ).  Do most crypto companies have all this paperwork done you think?  Beyond Coinbase and maybe bitpay?  ( Again I just will assume they have the exact same forms etc filed that people are saying GAW does not. )

 

[interstellar]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Sounds like you are volunteering! Please read the entire thread and have a complete list of proofs for us. We'll put in on a sticky some where. Otherwise you'll just have to read the thread and decide things for yourself!

[chunkyjunkie]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Fuck off you condescending prick.

Wow I type replies and make points and I am a ....... ?  Really.... Wow just wow.

Uhmm thank you for your added value to the community.  

And thanks for the laugh!

[interstellar]

Hmm new to this thread can someone summarize all the proof about the accusations I see about GAW.  thanks in advance.

I skimmed all the posts and it was mostly Y repeating Z's comment and belief that GAW is a ponzi, or scam for the logical extrapolation that most coins before xpy were scams or ponzi.

If anyone is so inclined to post a reply with links or proof beyond some blog report or personal experience that they of course have no screenshots, emails etc for I would be grateful.
I think a list of all the proof would be more helpful then X,Y or Z posts filled with saving the day comments with no substance.

Waiting... and thank you.

Hey man thanks for you joining us. If we had absolute proof of a ponzi we would already have called the SEC. You are welcome to help us find the truth together though!

Fair enough and an excellent reply.  This type of reply will at least not make me dismiss you out of hand.  

I understand what you are saying though about if there was anything of actual proof it would already be with the authorities.

Was just trying to head it off and see if anyone had some.  That way I could pull back my investments even more as by the time it is officially in law enforcements hands it is probably too late.

Still I feel good about my investment in GAW as they have treated me very well up until now and I have double my original investment locked away safe.  But to be clear that does not take away from people's concerns here going forward, just stating my situation.

Again looking forward to a summary maybe towards the bottom of this now 447 post thread of any proof.

Thanks again for the welcome and civil response.

Ah, do pay attention to the warning signs that they may not know what they're doing, such as paycoin having been down all day! How much money do you have invested there around if you don't mind my asking?

I would argue while not very professional and not a good situation being down today does not equate a ponzi or scam.
Regarding your inquiry to how much I ave invested?  I think that is a little personal but like I said I made over double my money.  Double the original is in the bank.. and more then double the original  is still in.  But I do continually scale down pretty much daily as it climbs.  

I hope that is a satisfactory answer to your question.

If you knew it was a ponzi would you be okay with making all that money? Did you know the law states you can lose the gains from a ponzi? Did you know just because you made a big profit that doesn't mean it's not a ponzi right? Just that you got in early. Later investors will end up the bagholders.

Look at the red flags of a ponzi:

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.
Look at your stakers? 1% ROI per day seem a little high no? And notice apparently there's no worry of getting less or losing your investment. Where is gaw stating the risk? Do you even know what the risk is? CHECK.


Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.
Again there's no sign that cashtakers return will be lower for any reason. GAWCEO stated a stake rate, he didn't say it would vary at all. CHECK

Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.
Gaw is completely unlicensed with SEC or any other fed agency that we know of. They aren't even registered as a MSB even though they are requiring KYC data from customers. This is suspected to be just a stalling tactic to prevent a run on the bank anyway. CHECK

Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.
Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Notice how you can't find any straight info on anything about paycoin on the site? That is actually purposeful. They want customers to remain in a cloud of the unknown. Much easier to change the rules later as they desire if needed. And they actually change the rules all the time. CHECK

Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.
I see the numerous technical problems and failure to live up to their promises as a sign of this. If they were living up to their promises, we wouldn't be here right now. [CHECK]

Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.
Problems with withdrawls at times. Mysterious security issues resulting in stolen BTC so everyone's account is frozen. Announcing paybase will carefully restrict flow of XPY to BTC and $$$. [CHECK]

Therefore GAW has checked off every single warning box that the federal government provided in determining if an investment may be a ponzi scheme. Now you should read this thread and decide for yourself.

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

See now this is a great attempt at proving the ponzi side of the argument!  Thank you very much for the time and effort..

Now for the sake of not making this post equally as long I only see one bullet point I can see as proof of underhanded practices.  That is the lack of filed paperwork.  The rest of the points to me, while they should be considered in everyone individual risk/reward assessments, are not again proof of fraud.

But quickly back to the supposed lack of paperwork ( which I will just take your word for as I would not be an expert on searching for this and reporting the existence or nonexistence ).  Do most crypto companies have all this paperwork done you think?  Beyond Coinbase and maybe bitpay?  ( Again I just will assume they have the exact same forms etc filed that people are saying GAW does not. )

 

Yes, any company based in the US that does what paybase will do has this paperwork. They are flat out breaking the law collecting KYC info without being a MSB. This has been stated many times in this thread by many people in the know.

[T0urist]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Point 2 - Refusal to show they are actually mining. Using a wsj blog to attempt to validate said coins. Refusal to sign a message showing the balance of freshly minted coins.

Point 3 - CTO Joe mordica stated he'd do a walkthrough of the entire datacenter and let people tell him where to turn where to go live and he'd spraypaint in pink this is my house when they tell him to stop. This was to show us they had the mining they said they did. What did he do instead? A laptop webcam video that pointed down a little row... with no sound (to hide the amount of noise suggesting miner amount), in the dark with no lights on.

Point 4 - Statements of high tech flexchains, thermo whatever etc. Sourcecode demonstrates none of this exists. GAW denies it was forked from peercoin or one of its siblings... shown to be false as peercoin i believe it was was still in the readme! They pulled the github source after this.

Point 5 - Saying they own paycoin trademarks etc. He only has a filing which he lied about the first use date on.

Point 6 - Stated Target / Amazon / Macy's were tier 1 merchants on board. In fact they are not. Used NDA cover to conceal it but coinfire emailed them and it was said to contrary that they weren't involved as did target. GAW's payment then changes to a plugin which turned out to be zinc save. Pay site had amazon listed... zincsave against amazon TOS. Amazon logo disappeared from the GAW pay site after amazon informed.

Point 7 - Big investors never named. Implied partnership with cantor fitzgerald and $100m floor funding. Refusal to show any such proof or statements.

There are many more. There are 7. Josh has a demonstrated history of being a compulsive habitual liar that changes his stories as he goes. Believe what you want to but i doubt you actually came here for such a listing. Someone with your vested interest amount would have followed GAW from the start so you should have seen all the red flags and raised issues. Their forum talks as much about us as we do about them.

[chunkyjunkie]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Sounds like you are volunteering! Please read the entire thread and have a complete list of proofs for us. We'll put in on a sticky some where. Otherwise you'll just have to read the thread and decide things for yourself!

no no no I am not volunteering!  Good try!  I was saying when a long passionate thread is made like this it would really be well advised to have a summary of all the points to help the very people the tread is aimed at?  Not many people are going to look through 444 posts to find any valid information.  

I do thank the one poster above who at least gave about 5 points that had value.  That is the type of community member that adds value to the topic for others to read and evaluate for themselves.

100 posts by bitter poster X agreeing with bitter poster Y back and forth post after post does me no good.  Sorry I am not going to take someones word on the internet that they " just know " facts on a topic when it involves money.  I instead invite them to state the reason they know so I can evaluate.

[Jacques de Molay]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/25052/so-you-re-telling-me-that-i-can-buy-xpy-from-cryptsy-for-0-03btc-now-and-sell-for-20usd-later/19
https://archive.today/0FfrZ

Update from Josh (GAWCEO):

@aceofmase said:

If the price to buy is lower at another exchange and bought back at the floored price of $20USD on Paybase then couldn't someone just arb the sh!t out of it?

I have had a solution built for that

Oh the scenarios we can come up with here for this nugget...

first one comes to mind is the excessive levels of KYC just to trade XPY to BTC
second one is the small value weekly limits placed on trades

any others?

Well, we already have KYC and limits. This might be either (a) something CEO just made up on the spot, he tends to do that often; or (b) a new feature he didn't want to mention while pumping the price on exchanges, e.g. the floor price is available only for coins that never left ZenCloud.

He could do something like put a 30 day hold for withdrawals on all incoming peecoin. Or is that even too draconian for gaw?

it's about making promises and keeping hope alive for as long as possible. according to

https://hashtalk.org/topic/24303/paybase-verifications/6

pretty much no one will be able to cash out xpy for btc in the beginning. only btc to xpy purchases will be allowed, also probably at $20.  you have to reach tier 2 before you can exchange and then you are limited to only $500.  tier 3 will allow $2500 total.  who knows how long the "public records" verification will take.  i have to give it to gaw, its a pretty good marketing gimmick and it will delay the potential failure of this coin for at least 90 days with multiple unnoticed stall tactics.

At least outside the Cult of Gaw in Homero Talk its definitely noticed.  Within that eco system of circle jerking on HT its unnoticed.

[jimmothy]

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Here's proof they are operating like a ponzi: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9610951#msg9610951

[Jacques de Molay]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Sounds like you are volunteering! Please read the entire thread and have a complete list of proofs for us. We'll put in on a sticky some where. Otherwise you'll just have to read the thread and decide things for yourself!

no no no I am not volunteering!  Good try!  I was saying when a long passionate thread is made like this it would really be well advised to have a summary of all the points to help the very people the tread is aimed at?  Not many people are going to look through 444 posts to find any valid information.  

I do thank the one poster above who at least gave about 5 points that had value.  That is the type of community member that adds value to the topic for others to read and evaluate for themselves.

100 posts by bitter poster X agreeing with bitter poster Y back and forth post after post does me no good.  Sorry I am not going to take someones word on the internet that they " just know " facts on a topic when it involves money.  I instead invite them to state the reason they know so I can evaluate.

Run along Shrillex, if you cant defend your investment properly and resort to attacking the posters rather then content..then you lost the game.   Its not hard pointing out the shrills on here that haven't read the thread properly at all and started having a cry about the thread.  

You were asked to list the good things about Goobers At Work and its proof that its ot a ponzi etc and yet you haven't - so on what advice and evidence caused you to invest in GAW IN THE FIRST PLACE ?? Id really like to know as it sounds like you bought into his promises - then seen this thread and are now questioning your decision making whilst trying to act smug about it = fucking fail.  At least we are discussing facts about the company and person (shit that gets you banned of HT in a flash) and not dealing with promises you guys have on Homero Talk.

[interstellar]

Regarding Cnn, CCN.  I am sorry did Josh ever say CNN?  I am not being sarcastic, I am asking.
I also don't like the site itself CCN as of course they picked the name to throw people off some, but like any blog I read it with a grain of salt.  Sadly with today's big media quality I would argue they are no worse then CNN, Wallstreet etc as most media reports for headlines and page views not for content and investigative reporting.

Update: All interviews are done (CNN, WSJ, Fortune Magazine, Venture). They do not tell us specific dates and times (for whatever reason) so now we wait. I should know they day it goes out. Personally, I think the first one will be the WSJ. We will definitely see some Monday

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18452/hashcoin-ico-media-tour-update

See now that is helpful and I don't doubt the validity.  This could be used as some of the proof people pretend to have.  This could be entry one.

Just you will need to take it down later if those articles do come out in the future.

It's been more than a month now and all we've seen is a bunch of paid-to-spam press releases and a variety of interviews with bloggers.

People don't pretend to have proof, it's just most people don't feel like digging through 400 pages to find it.

Actually I don't think this would hold up in a court of law much less the court of public opinion as proof that gaw is a complete scam

However, I will not invalidate it like I didn't in my post above.  I said this can be point one  in a nice summary of all the proof people claim to have.

I find however when mob mentality rules and people just repeat things they delude themselves into thinking something that is just not based in fact at all.

I would imagine that with the passion I see here by some they would be able to quickly summarize all the proof to help the community and new readers to this thread.

After all isn't the point of this thread to educate and help people be warned of the evil GAW empire with more then just repeating the gate fueled rantings that just get repeated?  I say a ummary with all the proof starting with that quote would be a good start and go further to saving everyone from themselves then rantings.  

I look forward to more constructive posts and proof.

Heck if even the most passionate posters here can't start a summary of proof against GAW I can do it for them.  However atm my list would be quite small.  

Anyone want to add to the list of proof?  Once again, thanks in advance.

Sounds like you are volunteering! Please read the entire thread and have a complete list of proofs for us. We'll put in on a sticky some where. Otherwise you'll just have to read the thread and decide things for yourself!

no no no I am not volunteering!  Good try!  I was saying when a long passionate thread is made like this it would really be well advised to have a summary of all the points to help the very people the tread is aimed at?  Not many people are going to look through 444 posts to find any valid information.  

I do thank the one poster above who at least gave about 5 points that had value.  That is the type of community member that adds value to the topic for others to read and evaluate for themselves.

100 posts by bitter poster X agreeing with bitter poster Y back and forth post after post does me no good.  Sorry I am not going to take someones word on the internet that they " just know " facts on a topic when it involves money.  I instead invite them to state the reason they know so I can evaluate.

don't worry man. You are welcome here any time. We don't ban here and we don't censor, unlike HT. What responses you get will totally depend on who is here at the time you ask the question. I am personally too tired right now to rehash anything. But T0urist did a nice job listing a few of the arguments in a recent post you should be sure to review. I would also read all of eightcylinders posts on this thread.

I know there's not really a lot to do right now with paycoin being down and all so you are welcome to stick around!