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Author Topic: NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012)  (Read 798773 times)
ripmax
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September 10, 2014, 03:14:36 AM
 #2621

UPDATE:
We now have 12 Monarchs operating.  There is a little bit of throttling going on, but I will work on better managing the heat load in the coming days as I have more time.  As is, we are operating at over 7TH/s and that brings NastyPool to over 10TH/s!  As an update to our debt situation, 70% of lenders have now agreed to my offer and as soon as one or two more lenders jumps on board, I will ask for NastyFans to vote on a deal proposal.

I have been contemplating ways to expand the Fan Hosting Program.  With mining profitability all over the place, it is hard to put together a good plan to help decentralize our mining operation.  I am open to input and discussion on the subject.

How do you go for noise? Do you have all of this in a garage or a spare room at the end of your house or something? Got any updated images of everything running? Would be interested to have a look at it all.

ripmax

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Squirrel Dearing
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September 10, 2014, 01:24:29 PM
 #2622

Is the nasty fans website down or is that just my work location?

TradeFortress
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September 10, 2014, 01:25:05 PM
 #2623

Is the nasty fans website down or is that just my work location?
It's not just you. It's down right now.
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September 10, 2014, 01:46:27 PM
 #2624

It's not just you. It's down right now.
It's back!

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September 10, 2014, 05:34:40 PM
 #2625

How do you go for noise? Do you have all of this in a garage or a spare room at the end of your house or something? Got any updated images of everything running? Would be interested to have a look at it all.

ripmax


I second on showing the rig pr0n.
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September 10, 2014, 07:05:08 PM
 #2626

As an update to our debt situation, 70% of lenders have now agreed to my offer and as soon as one or two more lenders jump on board, I will ask for NastyFans to vote on a deal proposal.
How can you spend money you dont own without all lenders agreement?

NVCBank. BTC/LTC/NVC accepted.
My Bitmessage address: BM-Bc9dpmehK1ihtgHgXKVypTsDwmL4czMx .
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September 10, 2014, 08:17:54 PM
 #2627

As an update to our debt situation, 70% of lenders have now agreed to my offer and as soon as one or two more lenders jump on board, I will ask for NastyFans to vote on a deal proposal.
How can you spend money you dont own without all lenders agreement?

I think you are viewing the situation backwards.  Lenders put up funds for an order with Butterfly Labs.  Butterfly Labs took 10 months longer than promised to deliver, and in that time the difficulty jumped 50x.  They are also refunding nearly 50% of the order funds at the USD rate.  That means I am getting back funds that belong to the lenders but that they are not entitled to per the current agreement.  This presents a predicament because BFL is refunding in USD, which means paying back all the lenders their BTC per the agreement will most likely take many years to achieve and issuing the refund to the next lenders in line isn't fair to those in the 2nd loan in my opinion, since it is just as much their funds being refunded.  I think that not disbursing this refund evenly would be unfair, and I have offered lenders an agreement that does 3 things.  1) Enables lenders to recover a large portion of their USD lended immediately.  2) Enables lenders to begin receiving weekly repayments.  3) Enables lenders to potentially recover more than their lended BTC amount.

With 90% of lenders now agreeing, I see no reason why I shouldn't go forward and let those who want to participate in a modified agreement have the opportunity to do so.  I am even providing 500 seats out of my own pocket as a bonus for lenders who want to participate right off the bat.  The lenders that do not want to participate are free to keep things the way they are.  Their repayment per the original deal will be calculated, and they can be paid out exactly like there was never any new deal at all.  If NastyFans approve my offer, I will ask nonnakip to give any seats due to lenders that are holding out to NastyMining in order to aid in the repayment of that lender.

This really is a win-win for everyone involved.  Lenders who choose to participate get a generous offer with a front loaded repayment and weekly repayments.  Lenders that do not want to participate see absolutely nothing change.  NastyFans will have the opportunity to vote for a larger share of the distribution % and NastyMining will become debt free (or nearly debt free depending on the holdout lenders).  It will also give us the opportunity to continue expanding, as I have already begun making arrangements (property ownership, electrical upgrades, security system, ventilation upgrades) for our own datacenter in a much cooler location.

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silverfuture
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September 11, 2014, 01:30:23 PM
 #2628

Hey fans, just a quick note to let you all know that the single I have been running has been down since yesterday afternoon due to an issue with my ISP. I have spoken to a supervisor there who has assured me that my account will be reinstated today. If not, I will move the single to another location and have it running by tomorrow morning at the very latest. Sorry for the downtime. Although the problem wasn't my fault, it is still my responsibility and I'll get it handled asap.

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NastyFans - The Fan Club for Bitcoin Enthusiasts | MININGCOINS | POOL | ESCROW
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September 11, 2014, 03:36:13 PM
 #2629

Hey Og, just a note: I am now a Monarch owner and am fiddling with the thing in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=759398.new#new

It's kind of cool actually. Feel free to drop in.

C
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September 11, 2014, 06:59:25 PM
 #2630

I am looking forward to seeing what you can do with it.
I hear they are quiet?
Og forgot to send me all the pics and info when he first got them.

Hey Og, just a note: I am now a Monarch owner and am fiddling with the thing in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=759398.new#new

It's kind of cool actually. Feel free to drop in.

C


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September 11, 2014, 07:04:59 PM
 #2631

OgNasty,so just to make it clear:
  • you asked for BTC by making a loan; and promised to pay back by paying 25% of NastyFans income with no time limit
  • you changed payout percentage multiple times (25%->75%->50%) using your own seat`s votes(you have over 50% of them) in NastyFans
  • after it became clear, that loan will not be payed out using your original offer (over 100 years if no diff increase,IMHO), you are going back to original terms of payback
  • offering people to exchange original amount of loan,which is not repayable after your decision, for "better offer"
  • your "better offer" is:small amount of btc(less than 16% of principal) + share of NastyFans income(5000/30000 which would give us 16% of it)
  • you are going to give BFL refund funds only to those who agree to take "better offer",even though this are money of all lenders

Some obvious concerns:
  • you are giving 16% of NastyFans to lenders, but why not 25%? That was original agreement.
  • you changed original payback plan multiple times in order lenders to get funds back, so why did you decided to get back to original?
  • why are you trying to convert principal to $, the loan was in BTC, you could take $ loan if you wanted?
  • taking loans and not paying it back(100 years in btc world is eternity) because you had your "original" offer and you can stick to it, is a normal business deal for you?
  • people gave you funds for BFL upgrade, now BFL are refunding some of it, why aren`t you sharing it with all lenders without any terms or offers?

P.S. let me remind you, that is NastyFans is fan organization, and formally you don`t have to donate them anything... so who will be buying shares after this?

NVCBank. BTC/LTC/NVC accepted.
My Bitmessage address: BM-Bc9dpmehK1ihtgHgXKVypTsDwmL4czMx .
฿: 1ShadowAM654zohrsjeso5pf9Sr4x4uYd Ł: LShadowAUpAy4r3yb2skZDe4vWFrLMNGtT ₪: 4ShadowA3DqkGv5zjLukcm88wSzvhbatsk
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September 11, 2014, 07:06:50 PM
 #2632

Og forgot to send me all the pics and info when he first got them.

I told lightfoot I would send them to him first since he bought me a new Kill A Watt & IR gun.   Tongue

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September 11, 2014, 07:31:21 PM
 #2633

...
This really is a win-win for everyone involved...
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September 11, 2014, 07:36:08 PM
 #2634

OgNasty,so just to make it clear:
  • you asked for BTC by making a loan; and promised to pay back by paying 25% of NastyFans income with no time limit

I asked for a loan on behalf of NastyMining in exchange for 25% of the NastyFans distributions.  A loan in which I also participated in as a lender.


  • you changed payout percentage multiple times (25%->75%->50%) using your own seat`s votes(you have over 50% of them) in NastyFans

No.  Never once did I ever change the % in the lending agreement.


  • after it became clear, that loan will not be payed out using your original offer (over 100 years if no diff increase,IMHO), you are going back to original terms of payback

I am only offering lenders an option.  They are free to stick to the original terms of the agreement if they would like.  So far 90% of lenders are in favor of the new agreement.


  • offering people to exchange original amount of loan,which is not repayable after your decision, for "better offer"

I am offering to exchange debt for an immediate payout and NastyFans seats.  Where is the not repayable part coming from?  No lender is being forced to change any agreement.  It is voluntary.


  • your "better offer" is:small amount of btc(less than 16% of principal) + share of NastyFans income(5000/30000 which would give us 16% of it)

The offer is dependent upon factors like the USD rate when the funds were lended as well as the lender's place in line of repayment.  This was negotiated with several of the lenders over a multiple week period and 90% feel it was done fairly.  It should also be noted that the offer has a total current value of over $77,000 when the original borrowed amount was less than $26,000 for the remaining lenders.


  • you are going to give BFL refund funds only to those who agree to take "better offer",even though this are money of all lenders

The refund if paid out per the original agreement would only go to the next two people in line.  This way, it will go to 90%, or 100% should everyone eventually agree.  The 1 lender who is holding out would not be due to receive any of the refund per the original agreement as he is several places down the line.  So really this is a moot point.


Some obvious concerns:
  • you are giving 16% of NastyFans to lenders, but why not 25%? That was original agreement.

I am actually offering 18.3% of NastyFans to lenders.  This is overly generous for three big reasons.  1) 33% of the loans have already been repaid, so you could argue only 16.5% should be due to lenders.  2) In addition to seats, lenders are receiving an initial payment of 42 BTC.  3) NastyFans seats are better than owning an expiring right to a share of the distributions.


  • you changed original payback plan multiple times in order lenders to get funds back, so why did you decided to get back to original?

I have never changed anything with the original agreement.


  • why are you trying to convert principal to $, the loan was in BTC, you could take $ loan if you wanted?

If Butterfly Labs priced our order in BTC and was issuing our refund in BTC, there would be no need to include USD in the equation.


  • taking loans and not paying it back(100 years in btc world is eternity) because you had your "original" offer and you can stick to it, is a normal business deal for you?

No.  It is not.  I plan to reimburse everyone to their satisfaction, or at the very least honor any previous agreement I've made.  Like I've said many times now, no lender is being forced to change the original agreement.  90% of them have chosen to make a new agreement.


  • people gave you funds for BFL upgrade, now BFL are refunding some of it, why aren`t you sharing it with all lenders without any terms or offers?

The original agreement doesn't allow me to do that.  Hence why a new agreement is the fair thing to do, as evidenced by the overwhelming lender support.


P.S. let me remind you, that is NastyFans is fan organization, and formally you don`t have to donate them anything... so who will be buying shares after this?

I imagine that the elimination of a huge chunk of debt accompanied with increasing the distribution % per seat will be seen as a huge positive to the organization.  We will see when a NastyFans poll is put up.

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ShadowAlexey
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September 12, 2014, 03:17:38 PM
 #2635

I asked for a loan on behalf of NastyMining in exchange for 25% of the NastyFans distributions.  A loan in which I also participated in as a lender.
Yep, your main payout source was NastyFans distribution, but this is not enough to payout loan(in reasonable perspective), then you may not pay it at all?

No.  Never once did I ever change the % in the lending agreement.
2013-12-20 [policy change] temporarily increase donations for fundraising to 75%
2014-04-05 [policy change] reduce donations for fundraising to 50%
And you used donations to payback lenders, so not all of them were in same situation. And now you want for rest of them to stick to the most original agreement,and recalculate payout success like there was no payout increase at all. That sounds unfair to me....

I am only offering lenders an option.  They are free to stick to the original terms of the agreement if they would like.  So far 90% of lenders are in favor of the new agreement.
Your offering lenders a choice, to receive some funds now, or not to recive them never with 95% probability.
Isn`t that strange offer? Because it obvious that it`s better to get smth now, then never? But why are you asking to forget about original loan amount?

I am offering to exchange debt for an immediate payout and NastyFans seats.  Where is the not repayable part coming from?  No lender is being forced to change any agreement.  It is voluntary.
According to BTC difficulty history and NastyFans "progress" you wont be able to repay debt ever with your original offer.

The offer is dependent upon factors like the USD rate when the funds were lended as well as the lender's place in line of repayment.  This was negotiated with several of the lenders over a multiple week period and 90% feel it was done fairly.  It should also be noted that the offer has a total current value of over $77,000 when the original borrowed amount was less than $26,000 for the remaining lenders.
First of all, you can`t calculate BTC loan in usd, because that was YOUR decision to make a BTC loan.
Second, your total current value is unreachable, because it is nearly impossible to sell NastyFan shares at last order price (personally i doubt that you can sell it at all)... Your actual BTC refund usd value would be much less than original BTC usd value.

The refund if paid out per the original agreement would only go to the next two people in line.  This way, it will go to 90%, or 100% should everyone eventually agree.  The 1 lender who is holding out would not be due to receive any of the refund per the original agreement as he is several places down the line.  So really this is a moot point.
IMHO, main purpose of loan, is that borrower will return principal. So you offered payback plan, which sounded reasonable, but when it failed you offered not equal(in terms of BTC) repayment plan at all.


I am actually offering 18.3% of NastyFans to lenders.  This is overly generous for three big reasons.  1) 33% of the loans have already been repaid, so you could argue only 16.5% should be due to lenders.  2) In addition to seats, lenders are receiving an initial payment of 42 BTC.  3) NastyFans seats are better than owning an expiring right to a share of the distributions.
1)As loan is not repayable in life time, it doesn`t matter what amount of it was repaid as people where promised at least 25% of nastyFans income, they can have if only if they get 25% of shares.
2)Initial payment wont cover their loss at all, end time line wont become much closer, eternity-17% is still eternity.
3) That`s your own opinion, so fat it was bad investment in terms of BTC... Time will tell, but that doesn`t cover 80% loss of funds.

I have never changed anything with the original agreement.
Actually, there was no agreement. There was your loan request, with repayment plan, which failed. But you have your own,very suitable for your situation, opinion.

If Butterfly Labs priced our order in BTC and was issuing our refund in BTC, there would be no need to include USD in the equation.
Lenders had no deal with USD and Butterfly Labs,you had. But why that should bother them?

No.  It is not.  I plan to reimburse everyone to their satisfaction, or at the very least honor any previous agreement I've made.  Like I've said many times now, no lender is being forced to change the original agreement.  90% of them have chosen to make a new agreement.
Without your actions most of your lenders wont get their funds at all, that your burden. Your current one doesnt seem to be very fair, because they might get much higher return if you just redistribute most of NastyFans income to them proportionally. But apparently that not in your interest, but you have obligations to your lenders(and to NastyFans too of course).

The original agreement doesn't allow me to do that.  Hence why a new agreement is the fair thing to do, as evidenced by the overwhelming lender support.
Your original agreement didn`t covered a lot of cases, its all about trust and common sense.

I imagine that the elimination of a huge chunk of debt accompanied with increasing the distribution % per seat will be seen as a huge positive to the organization.  We will see when a NastyFans poll is put up.
But if you wont grantee them that,first of all, you`ll protect their interests and funds, then i have serious doubts, IMHO. And in current situation it turns out that you are not going to take full responsibility for you own decision( and that you can easily make bad offers, which you will honor in the way you are comfortable) .

NVCBank. BTC/LTC/NVC accepted.
My Bitmessage address: BM-Bc9dpmehK1ihtgHgXKVypTsDwmL4czMx .
฿: 1ShadowAM654zohrsjeso5pf9Sr4x4uYd Ł: LShadowAUpAy4r3yb2skZDe4vWFrLMNGtT ₪: 4ShadowA3DqkGv5zjLukcm88wSzvhbatsk
OgNasty
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September 12, 2014, 08:24:29 PM
 #2636

I am pleased to announce that all lenders have agreed to the new debt repayment plan!  I have conveyed this information to nonnakip, and requested that a poll be put up for a vote on nastyfans.org.  I would like to extend a special thank you on behalf of NastyMining to the lenders, and also to nonnakip for making this possible.

Plan Benefits:
  • Eliminates all NastyMining debt
  • Increases the donation distribution % for current NastyFans seat owners

Plan Drawbacks:
  • Increases total # of NastyFans seats to 30,000

I think this is an important step to take for us going forward and I expect the benefits for everyone will far outweigh the consequences.  That being said, I do not take the consequence of NastyFans having to issue more seats lightly.  One of our motivations going forward should be the consideration of buyback plans in order to bring the seat count back down to the intended 25,000.

It should be noted that I am personally providing 500 NastyFans seats to lenders in addition to the 5,000 they are receiving from NastyFans.  NastyMining is also providing lenders with $17,729 of refund money from BFL as well as 8.36 BTC from the holdings account.

Here is the math showing the benefits for current seat owners for those who are interested.

Currently, 1 BTC donated to the fan club results in:
each seat getting 0.00002 BTC
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining Lenders

Under the new plan, 1 BTC donated to the fan club results in:
each seat getting 0.000025 BTC
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining

I hope I can have everyone's support in passing this poll and eliminating NastyMining's debt!

Please feel free to voice your opinions on this subject.

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September 13, 2014, 01:43:02 AM
 #2637

I am pleased to announce that all lenders have agreed to the new debt repayment plan!  I have conveyed this information to nonnakip, and requested that a poll be put up for a vote on nastyfans.org.  I would like to extend a special thank you on behalf of NastyMining to the lenders, and also to nonnakip for making this possible.

Plan Benefits:
  • Eliminates all NastyMining debt
  • Increases the donation distribution % for current NastyFans seat owners

Plan Drawbacks:
  • Increases total # of NastyFans seats to 30,000

I think this is an important step to take for us going forward and I expect the benefits for everyone will far outweigh the consequences.  That being said, I do not take the consequence of NastyFans having to issue more seats lightly.  One of our motivations going forward should be the consideration of buyback plans in order to bring the seat count back down to the intended 25,000.

It should be noted that I am personally providing 500 NastyFans seats to lenders in addition to the 5,000 they are receiving from NastyFans.  NastyMining is also providing lenders with $17,729 of refund money from BFL as well as 8.36 BTC from the holdings account.

Here is the math showing the benefits for current seat owners for those who are interested.

Currently, 1 BTC donated to the fan club results in:
each seat getting 0.00002 BTC
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining Lenders

Under the new plan, 1 BTC donated to the fan club results in:
each seat getting 0.000025 BTC
0.25 BTC goes to NastyMining

I hope I can have everyone's support in passing this poll and eliminating NastyMining's debt!

Please feel free to voice your opinions on this subject.

I think it is really good for NastyMining to be able to shed that debt so cheap.  I assume everyone that votes will agree to this without a doubt...I will be voting yes.

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September 13, 2014, 09:50:56 AM
 #2638

I finally got our single back online around 8 hrs ago.  Yay!   Tongue

Great news on the debt situation! I will be supporting this with my votes for sure. Many thanks to Og and the debt holders to coming to an agreement on this plan.   

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NastyFans - The Fan Club for Bitcoin Enthusiasts | MININGCOINS | POOL | ESCROW
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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September 13, 2014, 08:07:03 PM
 #2639

1 poll opened

[policy change] create 5000 seats to eliminate NASTY MINING debt


OgNasty: Sorry for delay. I work extra to make this important poll text clear.

maqifrnswa
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September 13, 2014, 10:30:02 PM
 #2640

I asked for a loan on behalf of NastyMining in exchange for 25% of the NastyFans distributions.  A loan in which I also participated in as a lender.
Yep, your main payout source was NastyFans distribution, but this is not enough to payout loan(in reasonable perspective), then you may not pay it at all?
...
[lots of stuff]
[/quote]

I've read both your posts, and I can't find what you have a problem with. It seems you don't like the settlement agreement, but it seems to be done in a straightforward, transparent, and fair way.

1) Lenders lend to a Nastyfans.
2) Nastyfans pays back lenders per the original agreement.
3) Nastyfans offers a offer to settle the debt.
4) Lenders accept the offer.

It seems like you didn't like the original agreement. That's fine, you don't have to lend to Nastyfans. And if you don't like that they settled, then don't lend to Nastyfans in the future or make sure that you have favourable terms if you do.

I think this was done in a great way, a win-win for all parties.
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