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Author Topic: NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012)  (Read 799816 times)
nonnakip
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November 19, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
 #1681

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

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November 19, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
 #1682

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

I would like to stress that going to 100% debt repayment would end our weekly streak of distributions to fans, which I would like to continue.  It would also cut off any ability for me to pay electricity costs using my personal donation distributions and potentially put the operation at risk as we know it.  I highly recommend that people DO NOT vote for the 100% option.

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sal002
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November 19, 2013, 05:00:16 PM
 #1683

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

I would like to stress that going to 100% debt repayment would end our weekly streak of distributions to fans, which I would like to continue.  It would also cut off any ability for me to pay electricity costs using my personal donation distributions and potentially put the operation at risk as we know it.  I highly recommend that people DO NOT vote for the 100% option.

Is there still weekly distributions to fans?  I haven't received anything since 9-27.

Find the coin to mine (with JSON API and charting) at http://www.coinchoose.com
http://www.multipool.in - Always mine the most profitable coin
OgNasty
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November 19, 2013, 05:02:33 PM
 #1684

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

I would like to stress that going to 100% debt repayment would end our weekly streak of distributions to fans, which I would like to continue.  It would also cut off any ability for me to pay electricity costs using my personal donation distributions and potentially put the operation at risk as we know it.  I highly recommend that people DO NOT vote for the 100% option.

Is there still weekly distributions to fans?  I haven't received anything since 9-27.

I'd log into your account if I were you and see why that is.  Perhaps you don't have a donation address set or your seats are on probation from not logging in...  Weekly donation distributions have most certainly been happening.

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sal002
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November 19, 2013, 05:11:56 PM
 #1685

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

I would like to stress that going to 100% debt repayment would end our weekly streak of distributions to fans, which I would like to continue.  It would also cut off any ability for me to pay electricity costs using my personal donation distributions and potentially put the operation at risk as we know it.  I highly recommend that people DO NOT vote for the 100% option.

Is there still weekly distributions to fans?  I haven't received anything since 9-27.

I'd log into your account if I were you and see why that is.  Perhaps you don't have a donation address set or your seats are on probation from not logging in...  Weekly donation distributions have most certainly been happening.

I logged in, have an address set.  When I go to history it shows the last date as 9-27.  I don't see anything about being on probation - how do I see that?

Find the coin to mine (with JSON API and charting) at http://www.coinchoose.com
http://www.multipool.in - Always mine the most profitable coin
silverfuture
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November 19, 2013, 06:23:21 PM
 #1686

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

I would like to stress that going to 100% debt repayment would end our weekly streak of distributions to fans, which I would like to continue.  It would also cut off any ability for me to pay electricity costs using my personal donation distributions and potentially put the operation at risk as we know it.  I highly recommend that people DO NOT vote for the 100% option.

Can the bills be paid at 75%?  This debt could really get out of hand depending on what happens with price and difficulty over the mid term. We are already hedged fully on a lower BTC value by having mining equipment and pre orders. I am not too concerned about theoretical share value in the short term. Hell, might be a good time to buy for many of us.  Glad to see there are other nastyfans who are thinking long term here and really believe in this endeavour and the people behind it. I'll be getting a nice big miner up soon and pointing it for the pool.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NastyFans - The Fan Club for Bitcoin Enthusiasts | MININGCOINS | POOL | ESCROW
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November 19, 2013, 06:47:04 PM
 #1687

1 poll opened

[member opinion] increase percentage of donations for fundraising

I would like to stress that going to 100% debt repayment would end our weekly streak of distributions to fans, which I would like to continue.  It would also cut off any ability for me to pay electricity costs using my personal donation distributions and potentially put the operation at risk as we know it.  I highly recommend that people DO NOT vote for the 100% option.

Can the bills be paid at 75%?  This debt could really get out of hand depending on what happens with price and difficulty over the mid term. We are already hedged fully on a lower BTC value by having mining equipment and pre orders. I am not too concerned about theoretical share value in the short term. Hell, might be a good time to buy for many of us.  Glad to see there are other nastyfans who are thinking long term here and really believe in this endeavour and the people behind it. I'll be getting a nice big miner up soon and pointing it for the pool.

The bills could be paid at 75% and it wouldn't require any changes to the operation.  Profit margins are pretty wide with the BTC exchange rate where it currently is.  How long that will continue is anyone's guess.  I do agree that this proposed change, along with everything we have in the pipeline, could result in a rather large buying opportunity if sellers react to the resulting distribution drop.

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silverfuture
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November 19, 2013, 06:58:25 PM
 #1688

That's my vote then. 75%

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November 19, 2013, 07:04:57 PM
 #1689

I voted 50%. This will double our repayment rate while still giving a good donation to nastyfans members.

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November 19, 2013, 07:15:16 PM
 #1690

I'd point out that the amount of debt may seem large but it is only 0.0114 BTC per seat (using nominal 25,000 seats). At current seat prices this is a very reasonable debt to equity ratio. As I said before, mining is a competitive low margin business and if you are good at it some leverage is appropriate and useful.

I voted against the change but going to 50% would be okay.

I think the biggest reason the share price is dropping is concern over the delivery dates for the next gen ASICs, especially BFL.
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November 19, 2013, 07:32:47 PM
 #1691

I logged in, have an address set.  When I go to history it shows the last date as 9-27.  I don't see anything about being on probation - how do I see that?

Your account was on probation. After login your account status returned to normal. You will received your missed donations with the next distribution.

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November 19, 2013, 07:49:19 PM
 #1692

I spend a lot time tracking down fans that go on probation. It is difficult because some have no email and only availability is through bitcointalk.org. And some do not respond easy. Until now I am keeping success but it is much work for me.

Right now we have almost 1 BTC in probation account and 376 seats on probation. This is forming a big issue.

I understand some fans do not want to sign in often. Even my account was on probation once! I could save me work and just let accounts suspend/terminate. But I think that causes backlash and speaks against the spirit of the policy.

I consider a new poll to change policy so that probation/suspension/termination is not based only on sign in but is also based on spending BTC from the donation address. That means a fan can either sign in or spend some BTC from donation address and account automatically returns to normal status. I think that would help many cases. But not all maybe.

As alternative we can consider eliminating probation/suspension/termination policy rules. I originally create them to encourage participation and protect against donating to addresses with lost private keys. But maybe that is not important.

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November 19, 2013, 08:07:10 PM
 #1693

I spend a lot time tracking down fans that go on probation. It is difficult because some have no email and only availability is through bitcointalk.org. And some do not respond easy. Until now I am keeping success but it is much work for me.

Right now we have almost 1 BTC in probation account and 376 seats on probation. This is forming a big issue.

I understand some fans do not want to sign in often. Even my account was on probation once! I could save me work and just let accounts suspend/terminate. But I think that causes backlash and speaks against the spirit of the policy.

I consider a new poll to change policy so that probation/suspension/termination is not based only on sign in but is also based on spending BTC from the donation address. That means a fan can either sign in or spend some BTC from donation address and account automatically returns to normal status. I think that would help many cases. But not all maybe.

As alternative we can consider eliminating probation/suspension/termination policy rules. I originally create them to encourage participation and protect against donating to addresses with lost private keys. But maybe that is not important.

I like the bolded idea, if nothing else it's supportive of the lazy because funds that go out to group/shared wallets would always be in churn so it would assist in keeping the seats active with little/no intervention... but then again that could be at odds with the last point made....

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November 19, 2013, 08:08:49 PM
 #1694

Voted 100%.. Lets get it paid off ASAP!

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November 19, 2013, 08:21:15 PM
 #1695

What do we gain by paying debt off early? I don't believe debt affects current prices; I agree with smooth that difficulty and delivery schedules makes potential returns uncertain (and quite possibly negative). Market cap exceeds total hardware valuation (including perpetual mining), debt doesn't even come to play.

Paying off debt early has a couple advantages.  We would be able to start saving BTC, which would help maintain seat value.  We would be more nimble to take advantage of opportunities that arise.  We would also have the option of paying out 100% of donations to fans. 


I spend a lot time tracking down fans that go on probation. It is difficult because some have no email and only availability is through bitcointalk.org. And some do not respond easy. Until now I am keeping success but it is much work for me.

Right now we have almost 1 BTC in probation account and 376 seats on probation. This is forming a big issue.

I understand some fans do not want to sign in often. Even my account was on probation once! I could save me work and just let accounts suspend/terminate. But I think that causes backlash and speaks against the spirit of the policy.

I consider a new poll to change policy so that probation/suspension/termination is not based only on sign in but is also based on spending BTC from the donation address. That means a fan can either sign in or spend some BTC from donation address and account automatically returns to normal status. I think that would help many cases. But not all maybe.

As alternative we can consider eliminating probation/suspension/termination policy rules. I originally create them to encourage participation and protect against donating to addresses with lost private keys. But maybe that is not important.

I am sorry that you spend time tracking down these folks.  I understand we are both trying hard to avoid any backlash from upset fans who have had their seats forfeited (none yet, thanks to nonnakip).  I do believe that something should be in place in the event that someone dies or just plain decides to leave Bitcoin.  I don't think sending BTC into a black hole once a week is particularly good for anyone.  That being said, I fully support changing policy to check an address for BTC activity prior to seat forfeiture.

Perhaps even a published probation list could be useful?  I understand that some folks don't publish their usernames, but for the ones that do, it could be a good reminder.  Any light we can shine on the issue to help folks who might not have read the policy or just plain aren't doing their part would be helpful.

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November 19, 2013, 08:31:37 PM
 #1696

I think 50% is reasonable, but 75% would be better at the moment. Yes, the hardware delivery concern is an issue, but observe how the difficulty rise is slowing. There will certainly be another bump as new hardware comes online, and efficiency will be the determining factor in which operations will remain profitable and which will fail. As the larger leaps in capability decrease, having a sizable reserve will allow for latest-generation equipment acquisition. The only suggestion is that from now on there should be no more pre-orders.

Both Og and nonnakip have demonstrated dependability, long-term focus, and a community-oriented perspective. We still have a long way to go until transaction fees comprise the bulk of mining returns (the soonest I'm estimating is in the late 2020s), and any operation to last that long will be able to persist as a foundation of the system. With debt cleared, it will show reliable repayment and reputation; lenders will be more likely to re-issue loans, allowing for more rapid growth. Consider Amazon, which put virtually all profits back into the company during growth - it might be wise to keep the rate between 50-75% for the foreseeable future.
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November 19, 2013, 09:08:43 PM
 #1697

I think 50% is reasonable, but 75% would be better at the moment. Yes, the hardware delivery concern is an issue, but observe how the difficulty rise is slowing. There will certainly be another bump as new hardware comes online, and efficiency will be the determining factor in which operations will remain profitable and which will fail. As the larger leaps in capability decrease, having a sizable reserve will allow for latest-generation equipment acquisition. The only suggestion is that from now on there should be no more pre-orders.

Both Og and nonnakip have demonstrated dependability, long-term focus, and a community-oriented perspective. We still have a long way to go until transaction fees comprise the bulk of mining returns (the soonest I'm estimating is in the late 2020s), and any operation to last that long will be able to persist as a foundation of the system. With debt cleared, it will show reliable repayment and reputation; lenders will be more likely to re-issue loans, allowing for more rapid growth. Consider Amazon, which put virtually all profits back into the company during growth - it might be wise to keep the rate between 50-75% for the foreseeable future.

Hear hear! Getting the debt paid and btc banked before a steep vertical in the overall "s" curve of bitcoin's valuation is paramount and we are getting closer and closer to that all the time considering recent developments.  Growth, reputation, and providing value is what will build share value and eventually give us handsome donations. This author is long btc and nastyfans. Decisiveness at this time would be prudent for seat holders.

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November 19, 2013, 09:21:28 PM
 #1698

Is a mail being sent out automatically when you are about to go on probation? If it isn't, that's a change I'd welcome

I participate in this thread, but I don't login to the site that often, since all activity is here. I only login when I want to buy a seat Smiley

If there would be a mail warning me, I'd probably login again to keep my seats alive

(If there is such a mail, forgot everything I typed)
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November 19, 2013, 10:17:20 PM
 #1699

Saving is good to be nimble. In any business sometimes opportunities arise that don't allow enough time for fundraising. Savings isn't that useful to take advantage of BTC price increases or to support seat values for its own sake because members could do that on their own. I'd rather see money in excess of reasonable working capital needs be distributed. (We're a long way from that of course.)

Also, forgive me if this has already been brought up (the thread is pretty long and I only joined recently) but how about an option to reinvest distributions by automatically buying seats on the auction (check box to enable plus a maximum price per seat to be paid)? This would provide some better liquidity for the seats, since it presently isn't possible to have any kind of standing buy order (only sell orders).
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November 19, 2013, 11:49:55 PM
 #1700

Is a mail being sent out automatically when you are about to go on probation? If it isn't, that's a change I'd welcome


You may not have realized this, but "email address" is never asked when you signed up on Nasty Fans.
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