▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

[ChrisCh]

https://cointellect.com/download/advanced what do you think about that?

[avw1982]

https://cointellect.com/download/advanced what do you think about that?

CoIntellect.com       1+2+3+4+5+6+7++    => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ requiring likely malware/wallet stealing software)

[Puppet]

I have pointed out some of the things that repeat here:

You're right, that does look fishy.

[avw1982]

I have pointed out some of the things that repeat here:

You're right, that does look fishy.

It's a animated impression. We should ask for real pictures.

[cyberpinoy]

Just so you know Eobot is not a ponzi scam as per your system, they actually took buying GHS off the market a couple of months ago for 3 or 4 weeks because they did not have the equipment to meet the purchases from its members. So for 3 or 4 weeks maybe even 5 (I know it was a while) we were not able to buy any GHS cloud.

Please tell me of all these predictions how many of them are you actually a real member of for more than 3 months at a time. You say CEX is not a scam, but to real people a scam is anything that is decieptful in thier actions of what they provide. CEX is an absolute scam, they lie and fiddle numbers, they do not give the proper values of your mining equipment, they payout less than 50 % of what you mine and their fees on thier cloud is just a calculated scam.

So tell me sir, of all of these sites you claim are Ponzi scams how many fo them are you actually a true enlisted member of and have actually put in BTC to truly test your system?

A system based upon opinion and guess work is no system to trust. Alth your list could be usefull precautions, what about the sites like Eobot who have fallen in your scam section that are not. Do you not worry about slander charges sir?

Because from what I read I gathered altho a site may be a scam, they all are! BUT if you get in early, you can, and will make your money back and then some until they fold under. So basically (to me) what you are saying is to assume they are all scams and just get in early to make your ROI.

It's a animated impression. We should ask for real pictures.

Anyone with Photoshop experience can see this image however they were able to use it in a video, it totally shopped. You can see the angle of the racks exactly same crooked angles all the way down thru, the same exact machines in the same exact position on every rack and the things he pointed out by circling them. Its amazing how far people will go to get their scam done. I mean what is it they are thinking , ok lets spend 150 BTC to conjure up this scam and when we get 160 we can close it down. I mean seriously what kind of criminals do we have today that are so criminal to put this much work into a scam, why not just take the time and do it for real? You know?

[Puppet]

Just so you know Eobot is not a ponzi scam as per your system, they actually took buying GHS off the market a couple of months ago for 3 or 4 weeks because they did not have the equipment to meet the purchases from its members. So for 3 or 4 weeks maybe even 5 (I know it was a while) we were not able to buy any GHS cloud.

So? Its a classic trick, just about every ponzi in history did it, including pbmining, pirate, madoff,..

Please tell me of all these predictions how many of them are you actually a real member of for more than 3 months at a time.

Me, real member? If you meant to ask if I invested in any of these companies: absolutely not.

ou say CEX is not a scam, but to real people a scam is anything that is decieptful in thier actions of what they provide. CEX is an absolute scam, they lie and fiddle numbers, they do not give the proper values of your mining equipment, they payout less than 50 % of what you mine and their fees on thier cloud is just a calculated scam.

If you have evidence of cex.io not living up to its contractual obligations, by all means post it. But since you are the guy who claims to be able to make a huge profit mining with 1J/GH dragon miners and $0.38/KWH, Im not going to take your word for it without checking the numbers myself.

So tell me sir, of all of these sites you claim are Ponzi scams how many fo them are you actually a true enlisted member of and have actually put in BTC to truly test your system?

Ive never invested a satoshi in cloudmining, and dont expect I ever will.

Do you not worry about slander charges sir?

Nope.

[cyberpinoy]

Abiding by bullshit policy they wrote purposely to mislead its members is a SCAM DAAAH. they meet their contracts so people like you will say "bal bla bla if you can show me where they have not met their contractual BLA BLA BLA" I can show you where they are making more than their miners, I can show you where buying thier cloud causes you to lose BTC rather than gain it, I can show you where their reported hashrates of your machines are more than 10% difference usually expected, I can show you where they are paying us only 50% of our work. That SIR is a scam company!!!! ANd FYI your contractual agreement is bullshit they base their contractual agreement on a base of X amount of dollars per GHS for maintenance fees yet charge us per share submitted, there is your discrepancy, . If they only charge X amount of dollars per GHS why do i get charged on every lock I mine, should not the Fees be taken at the beginning of every month before they are accrued to be more fair? then at the end of the month the amount of BTC you have left over is your profit after the fees? And to be honest if I wanted to take the time I could disprove their what is it 10 cents per GHS, that is a flat our lie, i get charged well over 10 cents per GHS in fees every month. its more like 10 cents per GHS per block solved

Assumptions made on opinion and not experience are not very valuable, they are just another opinion. and that is it. What new people need are real experiences, people who are members and have been either screwed or have good experiences, ROI is all that is important, at this stage of the game no one is a forever, so as long as people can at least make their money back and make a profit that is what we are stuck with. Until a good person like me who is honest and wants a business that will progress and be here for a while opens a real cloud mining site, or maybe even you (alktho I dont like your opinion it does not make you a dishonest business man) if people like us who are honest and want to progress forward with the help of others and grow as a team, until we make a real site, all we have are hopes of getting an ROI as fast as possible and keep flipping it.

[Puppet]

I can show you where they are making more than their miners,

So you are accusing them of making a profit? Is by your definition Amazon a "scam company" because they charge more than it costs them?

I cna show you where buying thie cloud causes you to lose BTC rather than gain it, I can show you where their reported hashrates of your machines are more than 10% + or _ minus,

Im pretty sure you cant, and that you are unable to distinguish between pool luck and hashrate variation.

I can show you where they are payng us onlky 50% of our work. That SIR is a scam company!!!!

Again, I strongly suspect you dont understand pool luck, but prove me wrong.

ANd FYI your contractual agreement is bullshit they base their contractual agreement on a base of X amount of dollars per GHS for maintenance fees yet charge us per share submitted, there is your discrepancy,  If they only charge X amount of dollars per GHS why do i get charged on every lock I mine, should not the Fees be taken at the beginning of every month before they are accrued to be more fair?

No, because you can sell your contract at any time, why would it be fair to have to pay fees for the entire month on the first day of that month? Moreover, throughout the month the price of bitcoin can vary pretty wildly.. If BTC exchange rate doubled in the course of a month, Im sure you would accuse them of scamming if they charged you based on the exchange rate of the beginning of the month. So if cex.io does that calculation every block, I have no problems with that as long as the average works out. If it does not, then prove it.

then at the end of the month the amount of BTC you have left over is your profit after the fees? And to be honest if I wanted to take the time I could disprove their what is it 10 cents per GHS, that is a flat our lie, i get charged well over 10 cents per GHS in fees every month. its more like 10 cents per GHS per block solved

Stop ranting and show us the numbers. Cex.io has many thousands of users and a profitable business model that doesnt require skimming or scamming. If what you say is true, Im fairly certain Id have seen the evidence from someone able to do basic arithmetic.

Thing is, like many you seem mad at cex.io because you didnt make a profit. and/or their prices are absurd The same goes for cryptx users. In both cases I went out of my way to show people those prices were insane and predicted what would happen, but also in both cases these companies to my knowledge have provided exactly what they promised, which is more than will be said from the majority of companies on my list.

[Skatter]

awesome thread to be honest.
at the end of the day "do your Own research"

[guillermemo]

Awesome,
I've invested on bitcoincloudservices.com & ltcgear.com
By now, all im hoping is just to not get screwed at 100% of my investment.
But As an investor. We all have to know that you would never invest what you can't afford to lose...

[Shogen]

awesome thread to be honest.
at the end of the day "do your Own research"

Or at least, you could check others' research like this thread before buying a contract to reduce your chance of getting scammed.

[l3sny]

Well... looks better than NCSI ! Nice to start a day with this thread. Good job with hashprofit

[4x13]

@puppet Personally, I would ask you to re-evaluate GAW/Zenminer I personally have ROI'd 3 times from them, withdrew my initial investment, and expect to see a Profit of more than 20k when Paycoin hits the major markets/Paybase. How is this Questionable?? or not legit?

[Puppet]

@puppet Personally, I would ask you to re-evaluate GAW/Zenminer I personally have ROI'd 3 times from them, withdrew my initial investment, and expect to see a Profit of more than 2-k when Paycoin hits the major markets/Paybase. How is this Questionable?? or not legit?

Firstly and for the umpth time, early investor profit ≠ proof  of legitimacy. If it where, Pirate and Madoff wouldnt be in jail.

Secondly, Ive defined my criteria based on my experience here, then I applied them as best as I could and without prejudice. If I misapplied any, point it out, Im human I can make mistakes. But if not, accept the outcome. BTW, if anything, the outcome for GAW is pretty favorable because Im only looking at their cloudmining contracts. If I looked at the bigger picture, it has ponzi and delusion written all over it. Here is a good summary written by eigntycylinders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9868670#msg9868670

[cyberpinoy]

I can show you where they are making more than their miners,

So you are accusing them of making a profit? Is by your definition Amazon a "scam company" because they charge more than it costs them?

I cna show you where buying thie cloud causes you to lose BTC rather than gain it, I can show you where their reported hashrates of your machines are more than 10% + or _ minus,

Im pretty sure you cant, and that you are unable to distinguish between pool luck and hashrate variation.

I can show you where they are payng us onlky 50% of our work. That SIR is a scam company!!!!

Again, I strongly suspect you dont understand pool luck, but prove me wrong.

ANd FYI your contractual agreement is bullshit they base their contractual agreement on a base of X amount of dollars per GHS for maintenance fees yet charge us per share submitted, there is your discrepancy,  If they only charge X amount of dollars per GHS why do i get charged on every lock I mine, should not the Fees be taken at the beginning of every month before they are accrued to be more fair?

No, because you can sell your contract at any time, why would it be fair to have to pay fees for the entire month on the first day of that month? Moreover, throughout the month the price of bitcoin can vary pretty wildly.. If BTC exchange rate doubled in the course of a month, Im sure you would accuse them of scamming if they charged you based on the exchange rate of the beginning of the month. So if cex.io does that calculation every block, I have no problems with that as long as the average works out. If it does not, then prove it.

then at the end of the month the amount of BTC you have left over is your profit after the fees? And to be honest if I wanted to take the time I could disprove their what is it 10 cents per GHS, that is a flat our lie, i get charged well over 10 cents per GHS in fees every month. its more like 10 cents per GHS per block solved

Stop ranting and show us the numbers. Cex.io has many thousands of users and a profitable business model that doesnt require skimming or scamming. If what you say is true, Im fairly certain Id have seen the evidence from someone able to do basic arithmetic.

Thing is, like many you seem mad at cex.io because you didnt make a profit. and/or their prices are absurd The same goes for cryptx users. In both cases I went out of my way to show people those prices were insane and predicted what would happen, but also in both cases these companies to my knowledge have provided exactly what they promised, which is more than will be said from the majority of companies on my list.

No by miners I was talking about the people who pay them for cloud and the ones who point their machines there, So what is your excuse for them reporting sometimes 20 to 50 percent of the rates of the machines pointed at their pool, what can you pull out of your ass to protect them about that? let em guess Variance or wait maybe pool luck, or I bet its my machines ahuh anything but CEX of course.

Ye i actually can prove this part and here is your proof. of how you buy Cloud mining and lose money on cex.io this is pulled directly from my account there.

2014-12-13 11:22:30   -0.00010634 BTC   -0.00007886    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 216576 , Cost: -0.00010634
2014-12-13 11:22:30    0.00005109 BTC   0.00002748    MINING   -   Block #334075, Reward: 0.00005109

2014-12-13 07:09:50   -0.00007693 BTC   -0.00010046    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 156672 , Cost: -0.00007693
2014-12-13 07:09:50    0.00005014 BTC   -0.00002353    MINING   -   Block #334049, Reward: 0.00005014

2014-12-13 05:20:47   -0.00011816 BTC   -0.00007367    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 240640 , Cost: -0.00011816
2014-12-13 05:20:47    0.00004888 BTC   0.00004449    MINING   -   Block #334038, Reward: 0.00004888

2014-12-13 02:36:42   -0.00006185 BTC   -0.00000439    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 125952 , Cost: -0.00006185
2014-12-13 02:36:42    0.00004143 BTC   0.00005746    MINING   -   Block #334031, Reward: 0.00004143

This is just a few blocks do you need more how about different sized hashrates o their cloud. how much do you need. do you see the rewards are lower than the fees. THIS IS NOT EVER POSSIBLE UNLESS YOUR RIPPING PEOPLE OFF some of them have fees that are doube and truiple what the reward was OMG SCAM!!!


I understand pool luck I am not stupid, You have your head sofar up CEX.ios ass you cant see the truth if it smacked you i the lips, thats not my problem its yours.

Ok seriously did you even mention about something being fair HOW STUPID ARE YOU, what is fair about pointing 20THS at their pool and them showing we have only 3 THS pointed there for 19 hours? What is fair about them having a server problem and wasting our electricity but not reimbursing us for their problems that they got paid for. What is fair about paying them X amount of BTC for cloud mining then having fees larger than the rewards. What is fair about solving blocks then not paying out on thsoe blocks until we make suh a huge fuss they have no choice, what is fair about hiding blocks that we solve?  Please tell me anything that is fair about CEX.io that is not outlandishly a fabrication in your mind that is so far up their ass?
the proof you desire is everywhere you choose not to believe it. I am not the only one complaining, and others are noticing their bullshit too they dropped 10 PHS this past month in hardware miners pointing their machines at them.

Your problem is, like a lot of wannabe know it alls in the bitcoin industry, you have no equipment, you do not run true tests, you have a lot to say and a huge opinion backed up  by nothing, no real work involved, no real machines you test with, no real accounts just your opinion.

You are a waste of our time, and a waste of space, Sorry to be blunt but you sir piss me off.

[cloverme]

@puppet Personally, I would ask you to re-evaluate GAW/Zenminer I personally have ROI'd 3 times from them, withdrew my initial investment, and expect to see a Profit of more than 2-k when Paycoin hits the major markets/Paybase. How is this Questionable?? or not legit?

Firstly and for the umpth time, early investor profit ≠ proof  of legitimacy. If it where, Pirate and Madoff wouldnt be in jail.

Secondly, Ive defined my criteria based on my experience here, then I applied them as best as I could and without prejudice. If I misapplied any, point it out, Im human I can make mistakes. But if not, accept the outcome. BTW, if anything, the outcome for GAW is pretty favorable because Im only looking at their cloudmining contracts. If I looked at the bigger picture, it has ponzi and delusion written all over it. Here is a good summary written by eigntycylinders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9868670#msg9868670

He did have a very good article on GAW, but I like your rating system because you're assigning a value on a risk scale. As with everything else, there's a lot of supposition and conjecture in all the threads with accusations and what not and no one is sure what to believe. Your rating system cuts to the chase, so I think it's the closest thing to provide a reasonable assessment of the providers.  If the providers don't agree with your rating, they can either provide the proof publicly in the areas you cite as risk and let the investors decide what to believe or not to believe.

[Puppet]

Ye i actually can prove this part and here is your proof. of how you buy Cloud mining and lose money on cex.io this is pulled directly from my account there.

2014-12-13 11:22:30   -0.00010634 BTC   -0.00007886    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 216576 , Cost: -0.00010634
2014-12-13 11:22:30    0.00005109 BTC   0.00002748    MINING   -   Block #334075, Reward: 0.00005109

2014-12-13 07:09:50   -0.00007693 BTC   -0.00010046    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 156672 , Cost: -0.00007693
2014-12-13 07:09:50    0.00005014 BTC   -0.00002353    MINING   -   Block #334049, Reward: 0.00005014

2014-12-13 05:20:47   -0.00011816 BTC   -0.00007367    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 240640 , Cost: -0.00011816
2014-12-13 05:20:47    0.00004888 BTC   0.00004449    MINING   -   Block #334038, Reward: 0.00004888

2014-12-13 02:36:42   -0.00006185 BTC   -0.00000439    MAINTENANCE   -   Shares 125952 , Cost: -0.00006185
2014-12-13 02:36:42    0.00004143 BTC   0.00005746    MINING   -   Block #334031, Reward: 0.00004143

This is just a few blocks do you need more how about different sized hashrates o their cloud. how much do you need. do you see the rewards are lower than the fees. THIS IS NOT EVER POSSIBLE UNLESS YOUR RIPPING PEOPLE OFF some of them have fees that are doube and truiple what the reward was OMG SCAM!!!

Dude.. do you see the "shares" count? Thats how long it took the pool to find the block. To use a highly technical term: "luck".
cex.io fees are defined in dollars and per GH per month. From the above its clear those fees are calculated per block on each block. If a block took twice as long as average, you'd expect to pay twice as many on fees. If a block takes half the average time, you'd expect to see half the average fee. Reward remains the same (ignoring variations in transaction fees), and therefore long unlucky blocks will yield a negative return, short, lucky blocks will yield a positive return. This is completely normal.

What could indicate fraud is if the average length is statistically (very) unlikely. But its not according to the man who should know:
http://organofcorti.blogspot.be/2014/12/december-7th-2014-weekly-bitcoin_10.html
http://organofcorti.blogspot.be/2014/12/december-14th-2014-bitcoin-mining-pool.html

An unlucky week, but a CDF of 88% is completely within the expected range. Or do you think slush (72%) and bitminter (78%) and eligius (77%) are also scamming and even more than cex ?

Here is the thing: if organofcorti tells me cex.io numbers dont add up, I wont hesitate for a second to change my view, but when someone who doesnt understand the first thing about this, hasnt even realized his dragon miners are costing him a fortune because you cant do a long division, if someone like that makes gratuitous  claims, I will gladly ignore that.

[ChrisCh]

i wanted to point out something from inside cointellect update news

"Equipment Update

 

For those unaware, we placed an order with the high efficiency miner manufacturer Zeus back in September. This order is still on track for delivery during December. As such, we would suggest waiting until mid-December before making any large contract or hardware purchases. We expect to have plenty of units in stock."

[4x13]

@puppet Personally, I would ask you to re-evaluate GAW/Zenminer I personally have ROI'd 3 times from them, withdrew my initial investment, and expect to see a Profit of more than 2-k when Paycoin hits the major markets/Paybase. How is this Questionable?? or not legit?

Firstly and for the umpth time, early investor profit ≠ proof  of legitimacy. If it where, Pirate and Madoff wouldnt be in jail.

Secondly, Ive defined my criteria based on my experience here, then I applied them as best as I could and without prejudice. If I misapplied any, point it out, Im human I can make mistakes. But if not, accept the outcome. BTW, if anything, the outcome for GAW is pretty favorable because Im only looking at their cloudmining contracts. If I looked at the bigger picture, it has ponzi and delusion written all over it. Here is a good summary written by eigntycylinders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9868670#msg9868670

You seem to be getting offended, I just ask that you re-evaluate.  I am not a Fan Boi for just GAW, I invest with the intentions of making long term profits. What do you consider Early investors? I was not there from the beginning, just within past 3 months, so I missed out on the Extremely Profitable deals, and yet I am still very happy. I am more looking for profits based on the Paycoin PoS factor as it is long term.

Thanks, and again I am not saying your info is not accurate, just my 2 cents

[Ghai]

Cointellect has a pool : stratum+tcp://66.55.92.73:8000. You don't have to use the miner they offer on their site, but you can point your own miner on it. They have a live-feed published of one of their datacenters a few days ago: http://dc.cointellect.com/

I can't tell you if it's all real or fake, I don't understand their business model (it's way better than any other cloudhashing company), but I know quite a lot of people that are actually making profit there.

I was wondering if you really try to talk with people of these companies on phone and try to get the information you need or that you only decide if it's a ponzi or not based on what you see on their sites or rumors you heard.

Btw Genesis Mining might be legit, but is absolutely not profitable.