Putting your money where Pirate's mouth is.

[odolvlobo]

It's not that difficult:

"There is a guy named Trendon Shavers, who lives in McKinney Texas, that has been running a ponzi scheme since November (or whenever it was). The scheme has finally collapsed, and his has bilked his investors out of around $5 million."

You don't have any sympathy for the people he ripped off, and that's ok. But he has (allegedly) committed a serious crime. People don't need proof to file a complaint. They just need to make the D.A. aware of it, and he will find the proof (if there is any).

They'll ask you how you sent the funds.  You'll say bitcoin. They'll say what? You'll have to prove value.  Then you have to prove you actually sent it.  Then he spends all this time researching and by the time he gets around to it, pirate's already paid people back.  They don't take kindly when you stretch the facts. 

No. You are wrong. All it takes is for a few people to contact them and they will investigate.  Anyway, you are contradicting yourself by implying that people are stupid for entrusting their money to a legitimate business.

[imsaguy]

It's not that difficult:

"There is a guy named Trendon Shavers, who lives in McKinney Texas, that has been running a ponzi scheme since November (or whenever it was). The scheme has finally collapsed, and his has bilked his investors out of around $5 million."

You don't have any sympathy for the people he ripped off, and that's ok. But he has (allegedly) committed a serious crime. People don't need proof to file a complaint. They just need to make the D.A. aware of it, and he will find the proof (if there is any).

They'll ask you how you sent the funds.  You'll say bitcoin. They'll say what? You'll have to prove value.  Then you have to prove you actually sent it.  Then he spends all this time researching and by the time he gets around to it, pirate's already paid people back.  They don't take kindly when you stretch the facts. 

No. You are wrong. All it takes is for a few people to contact them and they will investigate.  Anyway, you are contradicting yourself by implying that people are stupid for entrusting their money to a legitimate business.

Actually, I'm not.  I was only hypothesizing what the story would be.  I'm not the one advocating people call the DA.  derp.

[Oinsane1]

If you lost money in pirate's ponzi scheme, you can contact the Collin County District Attorney Special Prosecution Division. They deal with financial fraud. Pirate (aka pirateat40) is Trendon Shavers, 30, of McKinney, Texas.

Pirate's associates are Zach Nakaska and Michael Thalasinos.

Contact info:

John L. Schomburger, 1st Assistant District Attorney and Chief of Special Prosecution Division
Ext. 3610
(972) 548-4323
(972) 424-1460 (metro)
(214) 491-4860 (fax)

2100 Bloomdale Road, Suite 100
McKinney, TX 75071

jschomburger@co.collin.tx.us

this has gotten quite serious

[Matthew N. Wright]

If you lost money in pirate's ponzi scheme, you can contact the Collin County District Attorney Special Prosecution Division. They deal with financial fraud. Pirate (aka pirateat40) is Trendon Shavers, 30, of McKinney, Texas.

Pirate's associates are Zach Nakaska and Michael Thalasinos.

Contact info:

John L. Schomburger, 1st Assistant District Attorney and Chief of Special Prosecution Division
Ext. 3610
(972) 548-4323
(972) 424-1460 (metro)
(214) 491-4860 (fax)

2100 Bloomdale Road, Suite 100
McKinney, TX 75071

jschomburger@co.collin.tx.us

this has gotten quite serious

Dis is sewious business!

[Vladimir]

@Matthew, something tells me that you have cut a deal with Pirate before staring this topic...
Am I right?

I did not start this topic and I have not cut any deals with pirate. I am not in bed with pirate. I do not know pirate. I have never talked to him on the phone even, nor have I ever met him. I have no idea what he looks like or if Trenden Shavers is in fact his real name or not. I do not know if anyone in the community even knows his phone number, much less if it's an anonymous line. I do not know what he is doing behind the scenes. For the last time, my bet is one of faith. I am prepared to lose and be wrong, but the mere act of making the bet sets a precedent for loud mouthed dipshits in this community to finally back their "expert opinions" with more than an anonymous throwaway sockpuppet reputation. It should cost money to make baseless accusations, that's why defamation laws were created. Go team!

I don't believe anything you've said

Then let's bet that you're wrong. How much do you want to wager?

So you just like gambling high stakes - don't matter the subject?

You just like making baseless accusations, don't matter the evidence?

It's not about betting, it's about backing up your accusations. Make the bet if you're sure of it.

Get off your horse! lol People are entitled to express their opinions and to discuss eventualities. That does not automatically mean making accusations. Someone saying without qualifications: "Pirate and all his associates are fraudsters", would be a good  example of an accusation and not even completely baseless one, given the circumstances. But yes in court of law fraud is a criminal matter and have to be proven on beyond reasonable doubt standard to get conviction. That would DA's job apparently.

I also find that putting pressure on people to gamble is highly unethical. Even more so when other side of the "bet" is not in escrow.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

[piotr_n]

I also find that putting pressure on people to gamble is highly unethical. Even more so when other side of the "bet" is not in escrow.

If the "also" refereed to my posts, I don't find his bet "highly unethical".
It will be highly unethical only if he looses and doesn't pay up.

Moreover, I think (just a hunch) that there is something deeper about it and we will find out soon what it was.
If I were Pirate and planing to pay out, arranging such a bet would be my ultimate revenge for all the bad things I've read about myself.
And if the winning would go to a charity - then there is nothing unethical about it, whatsoever.

[bitcoinBull]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

So people are either stupid, douches, or betting against MNW.

From irc log:

[2012-08-20 18:26:59] <_matthew_> lol
[2012-08-20 18:27:19] <_matthew_> HAS ANYONE SEEN PIRATE!?!!? WHERE ARE MY INTERNET DOLLARS THAT I GAMBLED INTO SOMETHING I DONT UNDERSTAND OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT???
[2012-08-20 18:27:20] <imsaguy2> gonna be a long day in #btcst
[2012-08-20 18:27:22] <_matthew_> People....
[2012-08-20 18:27:24] <_matthew_> are...
[2012-08-20 18:27:26] <_matthew_> stupid...

[imsaguy]

Get off your horse! lol People are entitled to express their opinions and to discuss eventualities.

There's a difference between expressing your opinion and telling consenting adults what to do.

[ErebusBat]

It's not that difficult:

"There is a guy named Trendon Shavers, who lives in McKinney Texas, that has been running a ponzi scheme since November (or whenever it was). The scheme has finally collapsed, and his has bilked his investors out of around $5 million."

You don't have any sympathy for the people he ripped off, and that's ok. But he has (allegedly) committed a serious crime. People don't need proof to file a complaint. They just need to make the D.A. aware of it, and he will find the proof (if there is any).

They'll ask you how you sent the funds.  You'll say bitcoin. They'll say what? You'll have to prove value.  Then you have to prove you actually sent it.  Then he spends all this time researching and by the time he gets around to it, pirate's already paid people back.  They don't take kindly when you stretch the facts. 

They you have to pay taxes on the bitcoins you do still own (because now you were so helpful to prove the value to the gov'ment)

[davidspitzer]

If you lost money in pirate's ponzi scheme, you can contact the Collin County District Attorney Special Prosecution Division. They deal with financial fraud. Pirate (aka pirateat40) is

google infos

Nice job, you know how to use Google. woo

?

And you know English! What's your point?

You're going to call the DA and say what exactly?  "I gave this guy I don't know that I met on the internet a bunch of electronic 'money' and he has been paying me interest.  Over the weekend he announced he was closing.  I think his high rate of return and refusal to reveal his business to me makes him a ponzi but I have no proof.  I know I didn't bother to research before sending him the 'money', but I care now. kthnxbye"

If we all stick to this script and call now, he will have dozens of voice mails FORCING him to pay attention when he comes to work tomorrow morning.

Yes exactly. theft can be of any asset of value, even bitcoins. Lack of research does not mitigate the crime of theft. If Pirate does not return people's money in a reasonable amount of time then he should be prosecuted for theft and fraud. Contacting the District Attorney is definitely the right thing to do. I would recommend have a few spokesperson's and gathering as many names as you can for submission to the DA's office. If nothing else it may create a little pressure on pirate to speed up the refunds if he really intends to do so. If not the sooner action is taken the sooner the damage can be mitigated before the coins are cashed out and Pirate is sipping rum on beach, located in a country without extradition to the US.

[imsaguy]

Yes exactly. theft can be of any asset of value, even bitcoins. Lack of research does not mitigate the crime of theft. If Pirate does not return people's money in a reasonable amount of time then he should be prosecuted for theft and fraud. Contacting the District Attorney is definitely the right thing to do. I would recommend have a few spokesperson's and gathering as many names as you can for submission to the DA's office. If nothing else it may create a little pressure on pirate to speed up the refunds if he really intends to do so. If not the sooner action is taken the sooner the damage can be mitigated before the coins are cashed out and Pirate is sipping rum on beach, located in a country without extradition to the US.

You couldn't even get a scummy debt collector to touch this until 30 days have passed. 

[rjk]

Yes exactly. theft can be of any asset of value, even bitcoins. Lack of research does not mitigate the crime of theft. If Pirate does not return people's money in a reasonable amount of time then he should be prosecuted for theft and fraud. Contacting the District Attorney is definitely the right thing to do. I would recommend have a few spokesperson's and gathering as many names as you can for submission to the DA's office. If nothing else it may create a little pressure on pirate to speed up the refunds if he really intends to do so. If not the sooner action is taken the sooner the damage can be mitigated before the coins are cashed out and Pirate is sipping rum on beach, located in a country without extradition to the US.

You couldn't even get a scummy debt collector to touch this until 30 days have passed. 

[dooglus]

If I had 20k BTC in a Bitcoin Max account, I either end up with 20k BTC if pirate pays out, or 0 BTC if pirate defaults.

Apparently I could sell it for 70% of its value.  That's what people are paying for them.  So I could sell it for 14k BTC.

If I then took 10k BTC worth of bets at 100% (x2) evens 100% ROI like Matthew is trying to do, I would end up with 14+10k = 24k BTC if pirate pays out or 14-10k = 4k BTC if pirate defaults.

Either way I end up with 4k BTC more than if I hadn't sold my account and made the bets.

[hgmichna]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

Matthew, do you still want to bet that pirate will pay back his debt? I can't believe this, but if you really want, I'll bet.

Let's use the Vandroiy bet terms. They are well thought out and have been finely honed over the course of a week, if I remember that correctly. If Vandroiy wins his BTC5,000, then you will pay me. If Vandroiy loses, I will pay you. I think that is a fair offer, and I also think that everybody here will recognize it as one.

How much do you want to enter? Anybody else joining in? Unlikely, but the world (not to mention myself) is probably better off if anybody who believes that the pirate is an honest man loses his money.

I appreciate that some here tried to be protective against pressuring somebody into a bet (thanks!), but in my personal case there is no problem, because I think that bets can be useful tools to either stop people spouting nonsense or uncover that they are not serious and don't really mean what they say.

[unclescrooge]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

Matthew, do you still want to bet that pirate will pay back his debt? I can't believe this, but if you really want, I'll bet.

Let's use the Vandroiy bet terms. They are well thought out and have been finely honed over the course of a week, if I remember that correctly. If Vandroiy wins his BTC5,000, then you will pay me. If Vandroiy loses, I will pay you. I think that is a fair offer, and I also think that everybody here will recognize it as one.

How much do you want to enter? Anybody else joining in? Unlikely, but the world (not to mention myself) is probably better off if anybody who believes that the pirate is an honest man loses his money.

I appreciate that some here tried to be protective against pressuring somebody into a bet (thanks!), but in my personal case there is no problem, because I think that bets can be useful tools to either stop people spouting nonsense or uncover that they are not serious and don't really mean what they say.

Would you bet with me? I give you 200BTC if he doesn't pay, and you give me 100BTC if he pays. What do you say?

(i'm dead serious)

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

Matthew, do you still want to bet that pirate will pay back his debt? I can't believe this, but if you really want, I'll bet.

Finally.

[hgmichna]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

Matthew, do you still want to bet that pirate will pay back his debt? I can't believe this, but if you really want, I'll bet.

Finally.

I would like a bet with you particularly. The cleanest way is to use the Vandroiy bet conditions, because they are clearly laid out and fine-tuned. If Vandroiy wins his BTC5,000, you pay me, if Vandroiy loses, I pay you.

How much is your opinion worth? Let's say, BTC250? Or do you want it higher? Since you are so very keen on my bet, I am sure you will agree.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

Matthew, do you still want to bet that pirate will pay back his debt? I can't believe this, but if you really want, I'll bet.

Finally.

I would like a bet with you particularly. The cleanest way is to use the Vandroiy bet conditions, because they are clearly laid out and fine-tuned. If Vandroiy wins his BTC5,000, you pay me, if Vandroiy loses, I pay you.

How much is your opinion worth? Let's say, BTC250? Or do you want it higher? Since you are so very keen on my bet, I am sure you will agree.

Howdy,

No thanks, I already have a bet with Dust, and that's more than really want to risk considering I'm only 50-50 on the outcome.    Luckily for you, Matt already has a whole giant thread with almost 5000BTC worth of other people who think just like you do.  I'm sure you'll be fine putting your money into that.   Looking forward to seeing you in that thread.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Telling people to put their money where their mouth is is not pressuring them to gamble, it's pressuring them to stop being a douche.

Matthew, do you still want to bet that pirate will pay back his debt? I can't believe this, but if you really want, I'll bet.

Finally.

I would like a bet with you particularly. The cleanest way is to use the Vandroiy bet conditions, because they are clearly laid out and fine-tuned. If Vandroiy wins his BTC5,000, you pay me, if Vandroiy loses, I pay you.

How much is your opinion worth? Let's say, BTC250? Or do you want it higher? Since you are so very keen on my bet, I am sure you will agree.

I accept your conditions. I'm betting 10,000BTC already in another thread however, although at the moment of writing this, 4995.89114457 BTC has been bet leaving me with 5004.10885543 BTC left to bet with. Name your bet please.