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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914546 times)
Vycid
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August 05, 2013, 08:05:29 PM
 #10761

It's genius, really: trying to buy $200M of coins directly would spike the price before you actually gained ownership of the assets, so you'd get stuck buying in at a high price. Instead, they're going to keep all of the coins they're mining, which indirectly raises the price on assets they essentially have already paid for - those coins aren't being released into the wild like they would by a company like AM, so Joe Lewis is relieving the inflationary pressure of mining, which will manifest as an increase in value on his newly minted coins.

So, Joe mines coins via Avalon and puts those in a private wallet somewhere. And even though the rest of the Bitcoin community sees those coins getting mined and knows exactly where they are, it "relieves the inflationary pressure", which I take to mean that the value of the rest of the BTCs out there go up? I don't see how or why - we will all know that those coins exist and are available to be circulated at any time, so you can't price the remaining BTC's as is they're off the market (ie destroyed).

Inflation isn't some magical thing that happens because everyone looks around at how many Bitcoins there are. It's a supply/demand problem. If more people are looking to sell (or use) Bitcoins than are willing to buy (or accept) them at their current price level, the price level of BTC necessarily decreases (and the price level of everything else necessarily increases relative to BTC).

Normally you have miners selling their mined BTC to cover fiat costs: hardware, rent, electricity, etc. That is supply-side pressure, or inflationary pressure, which would be relieved if someone like Joe was bankrolling the whole thing in order to get coins in the first place.

He's not, though (unless he's lying to preserve his interests), so the point is moot.

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Vycid
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August 05, 2013, 08:23:06 PM
 #10762

As far as I am concerned, this is the vindication of my bearish sentiment on AM. If this story gets confirmed - and I rate the odds of that at far higher than zero, since this is published in the Wall Street Journal - AM stock is set to absolutely crater. The insane notion that AM will continue to return ~25% APR indefinitely is getting a reality check.

Since the story turned out to be bogus, does this mean that AM stock is going to skyrocket?

Well, it will certainly recover whatever loss it suffered on the basis of concern that article might have been real (which seems to have been marginal). "Skyrocket" isn't appropriate, since it didn't crash in the first place.

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August 05, 2013, 09:06:21 PM
 #10763

I believe that article is already proven to be a hoax.
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August 06, 2013, 12:55:19 AM
 #10764

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing


Can you provide information on the timeframe of this figure?  I am trying to estimate the bitcoins merchant/marketplaces average monthly sales in this thread
David Chen
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August 06, 2013, 02:13:25 AM
 #10765

Since the story turned out to be bogus, does this mean that AM stock is going to skyrocket?

Yes.

that's great news, now I can go back to bed...

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley
 So, we have to hold tightly.

reputation is everything.
Lohoris
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August 06, 2013, 07:23:08 AM
 #10766

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley
Why should it?
An APR of 30% is already low, would you accept 12%?

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DiabloD3
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August 06, 2013, 07:37:31 AM
 #10767

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley

Probably before October of this year.

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August 06, 2013, 07:41:47 AM
 #10768

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley

Probably before October of this year.

why should this happen?
Hardware sales in first place or is it likely that AM will accomplish it's goals in mining performance?

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php - check it out!next difficulty + time leftcustomizable monthly (diff + USD/BTC) increasements device lead timeupdate: auto-compares device costs to BTC-buy profit ♥ 1btciBCKb59TbzNj5QzC2EXWDARxtJL1f
DiabloD3
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August 06, 2013, 07:44:03 AM
 #10769

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley

Probably before October of this year.

why should this happen?
Hardware sales in first place or is it likely that AM will accomplish it's goals in mining performance?


Greed.

Lohoris
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August 06, 2013, 07:53:49 AM
 #10770

Greed.
While there's no limit to human stupidity, there's a limit at the funds that stupids do manage.
Stupids will run out of money much sooner than that, I think.

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freedomno1
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August 06, 2013, 08:16:04 AM
 #10771

Greed.
While there's no limit to human stupidity, there's a limit at the funds that stupids do manage.
Stupids will run out of money much sooner than that, I think.


True enough limited funds will bring about limits to greed Smiley
Could go into a whole MPOE topic on that ^_^
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August 06, 2013, 08:38:32 AM
 #10772

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley

Probably before October of this year.

why should this happen?
Hardware sales in first place or is it likely that AM will accomplish it's goals in mining performance?


Greed.

Well, I hope there is a bit more to come than (even more) greed.
I wanna see the 0.1 dividends Wink

Take it to the max, FC Smiley

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php - check it out!next difficulty + time leftcustomizable monthly (diff + USD/BTC) increasements device lead timeupdate: auto-compares device costs to BTC-buy profit ♥ 1btciBCKb59TbzNj5QzC2EXWDARxtJL1f
David Chen
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August 06, 2013, 08:58:29 AM
 #10773

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley
Why should it?
An APR of 30% is already low, would you accept 12%?


Actually, an APR of 30% is great!

In the next few years, there is little opportunity to earn bitcoin by bitcoin .

also, the bitcoin world is a deflation world, the interest rate will grow smaller and smaller, so 30% is really really big!

you will understand in the future,so just hold your shares.

reputation is everything.
penta
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August 06, 2013, 10:03:43 AM
 #10774

whats up with the lack of updates lately from friedcat directly?
im abit uncomfortable with getting news through middlemen like TAT/chinese  forums etc, especially with the amounts of insider trading that opens the door to.

Jutarul
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August 06, 2013, 10:42:07 AM
 #10775

whats up with the lack of updates lately from friedcat directly?
im abit uncomfortable with getting news through middlemen like TAT/chinese  forums etc, especially with the amounts of insider trading that opens the door to.
A reduction of direct communication from the founder is usually part of the natural growth of a company, since the CEO surrounds himself with people who take charge of responsibilities. It looks like TAT volunteered to do take care of PR to a degree and shareholder communication. To my knowledge this happened in a rather unofficial manner, so maybe that should be clarified.

I am also not surprised to hear that some of the information hits the chinese forums first, before it gets translated and transmitted to other places - after all, it's a chinese venture. You have to learn mandarin I am afraid if you want a shortcut and to be on top of things.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
lucasjkr
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August 06, 2013, 11:42:11 AM
 #10776

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley
Why should it?
An APR of 30% is already low, would you accept 12%?


Only in bitcoin land would a 30% yield be considered low. And sure, for a miner you need to make your money back rapidly before more miners appear, but AM has shown themselves to be a fairly reliable company so far, with a longer term perspective. In the ordinary investment world 30% is unheard of. Literally, unheard of. That that sort of payout is available from AM shows the amount of risk that is still present in the Bitcoin world, and more importantly, shows how thinly traded it even its most heavily traded issue actually is.

Due to the finite nature of bitcoin rewards (lets not mention transaction fees), there is certainly a cap on AM's value, but I think it could justifiably be a bit higher than 4 BTC /sh if they're able to regain their previous posture with the rollout of their 2nd gen chips.
Aedius
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August 06, 2013, 03:08:29 PM
 #10777

The price of the Asicminer shares will go to 10 in one year  Smiley
Why should it?
An APR of 30% is already low, would you accept 12%?


Only in bitcoin land would a 30% yield be considered low. And sure, for a miner you need to make your money back rapidly before more miners appear, but AM has shown themselves to be a fairly reliable company so far, with a longer term perspective. In the ordinary investment world 30% is unheard of. Literally, unheard of. That that sort of payout is available from AM shows the amount of risk that is still present in the Bitcoin world, and more importantly, shows how thinly traded it even its most heavily traded issue actually is.

Due to the finite nature of bitcoin rewards (lets not mention transaction fees), there is certainly a cap on AM's value, but I think it could justifiably be a bit higher than 4 BTC /sh if they're able to regain their previous posture with the rollout of their 2nd gen chips.

This... LOL @ people thinking 30% APR is "low" Try taking look at the highest yielding dividend stocks and maybe you'll see the value proposition currently offered by holding ASICMINER shares.
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August 06, 2013, 03:40:33 PM
 #10778

Only in bitcoin land would a 30% yield be considered low.

At a flat 30% yield, not compounded, it will take 172 weeks to break even.

How confident are you that they will be around in 3+ years?  How confident are you that they can maintain that yield?

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ThickAsThieves
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August 06, 2013, 03:43:23 PM
 #10779

Only in bitcoin land would a 30% yield be considered low.

At a flat 30% yield, not compounded, it will take 172 weeks to break even.

How confident are you that they will be around in 3+ years?  How confident are you that they can maintain that yield?


You have to factor in the purchase AND sale price.
tinus42
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August 06, 2013, 03:45:10 PM
 #10780

Only in bitcoin land would a 30% yield be considered low.

At a flat 30% yield, not compounded, it will take 172 weeks to break even.

How confident are you that they will be around in 3+ years?  How confident are you that they can maintain that yield?

If you bought at the current price. My shares were bought at around BTC2.5. Some payed even less for them (and likely already made good on their original investment).
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