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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3914570 times)
btcbot
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August 02, 2013, 01:44:56 PM
 #10701


Ugh... that explains why I got the wrong amount of dividends after the direct transfer. I've written both Friedcat and Burnside... 

Anything else I should do?   Huh

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August 02, 2013, 02:50:10 PM
Last edit: August 09, 2013, 03:02:46 PM by SmiGueL
 #10702

OFFICIAL UPDATE

The topic of the orphaned blocks and low tx fees in AM blocks was recently addressed by the board.

Friedcat is aware of the problem and Bitfountain is working to solve it. In the meantime, it is a negligible but necessary loss.

I've made some charts just to check if something happened to the fees after this week's missing ASICMINER tag in the blocks.

Fees of the mined blocks since the 1st of July by ASICMINER:


Average fees of the 10 previous mined blocks by ASICMINER:


Average fees of the 50 previous mined blocks by ASICMINER:


The next one is pretty interesting.
When using a log scale it's clearly visible that the lower right part of the chart has no dots!  Grin


I think it's WAY to early to come to a conclusion, but because the charts will update itself I thought I'd share it and we'll see soon. Grin Cool


However, even if this takes months to fix, keep in mind that the missed fees are so low in comparison to whole blocks (1% ?)
that even adding 400GH/s is more effective than spend days and days to figure out how the fees can be increased. Smiley

Asicminer Hashrate Charts @ www.asicminercharts.com

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michaelGedi
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August 02, 2013, 03:08:53 PM
 #10703

for some reason I sold all my shares at 3.8x, I had just returned from holiday and didn't know what was going on I guess... hashrate down, blabla...


Buy back now? I have made a large profit so far, but was happy until yesterday to leave my BTC in AM.


I will have lost one whole share if I do, but at least I'm still with AM (who I had planned to stick with for at least 6 months... that's 4 months to go...)

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August 02, 2013, 03:13:06 PM
 #10704

for some reason I sold all my shares at 3.8x, I had just returned from holiday and didn't know what was going on I guess... hashrate down, blabla...


Buy back now? I have made a large profit so far, but was happy until yesterday to leave my BTC in AM.


I will have lost one whole share if I do, but at least I'm still with AM (who I had planned to stick with for at least 6 months... that's 4 months to go...)

My advice? If I were throwing BTC at mining stocks, I'd spread it around with AM, AMC, LabCoin, BTCGarden etc. AM is proven and therefore less risky, but also has less growth potential, given the current price. I'm a huge AM fan and I hope to stay an investors for years to come, but putting all your fried feline eggs in one basket still isn't wise - diversify!

michaelGedi
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August 02, 2013, 03:20:55 PM
 #10705

for some reason I sold all my shares at 3.8x, I had just returned from holiday and didn't know what was going on I guess... hashrate down, blabla...


Buy back now? I have made a large profit so far, but was happy until yesterday to leave my BTC in AM.


I will have lost one whole share if I do, but at least I'm still with AM (who I had planned to stick with for at least 6 months... that's 4 months to go...)

My advice? If I were throwing BTC at mining stocks, I'd spread it around with AM, AMC, LabCoin, BTCGarden etc. AM is proven and therefore less risky, but also has less growth potential, given the current price. I'm a huge AM fan and I hope to stay an investors for years to come, but putting all your fried feline eggs in one basket still isn't wise - diversify!


ok thanks, I'm a very uneducated irrational speculator so this helps.

I'll have to do my homework on the other stocks. Though part of me is inclined to just cold storage these coins now and sit on them for a bit... BTC/USD price is displaying interesting behaviour atm

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August 02, 2013, 03:42:46 PM
 #10706

I see this orphan, tx fee discussions as red herring.  Tx fee are insignificant relative to block reward.  Even if that tx fee becomes huge and ASICMINER solo mining is unable to capture them, it can always be limited to a couple of percent by pointing to mining pools again.

There's now technical / manufacturing issue (delay of blades) and potentially supply chain / demand forecast issue (USB ran out of stocks) - those are far more critical.
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August 02, 2013, 04:35:34 PM
 #10707

I see this orphan, tx fee discussions as red herring.  Tx fee are insignificant relative to block reward.  Even if that tx fee becomes huge and ASICMINER solo mining is unable to capture them, it can always be limited to a couple of percent by pointing to mining pools again.

There's now technical / manufacturing issue (delay of blades) and potentially supply chain / demand forecast issue (USB ran out of stocks) - those are far more critical.

Agreed, in the short term, hardware sales are fare more lucrative so there is more of an impact on revenue.

Long term, I would say that it's not just as simple as pointing to a new pool. Let's put it bluntly - internet networking services in china are more problematic than 95% of the rest of the planet (yeah, North Korea, Iran and a few others are worse). Friedcat is going to have to add data centers outside of China or engage in "creative" networking solutions to work around the inherent flaws in the ChinaTel/ChinaUnicom solutions. If he needs it, I'm sure there are a number of experienced forum members who can help advise on this topic, myself included.

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August 02, 2013, 04:43:11 PM
 #10708


ok thanks, I'm a very uneducated irrational speculator so this helps.

I'll have to do my homework on the other stocks. Though part of me is inclined to just cold storage these coins now and sit on them for a bit... BTC/USD price is displaying interesting behaviour atm

Buying mining stocks is like investing in BTC/fiat speculation but earning dividends + valuation increases on top of that. It's like a layered multiple, when valued against fiat. I think it's why most of us are here - we believe in BTC and we want to share in the mining rewards in addition to rather than instead of BTC/fiat investments.

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August 02, 2013, 05:20:15 PM
 #10709


ok thanks, I'm a very uneducated irrational speculator so this helps.

I'll have to do my homework on the other stocks. Though part of me is inclined to just cold storage these coins now and sit on them for a bit... BTC/USD price is displaying interesting behaviour atm

Buying mining stocks is like investing in BTC/fiat speculation but earning dividends + valuation increases on top of that. It's like a layered multiple, when valued against fiat. I think it's why most of us are here - we believe in BTC and we want to share in the mining rewards in addition to rather than instead of BTC/fiat investments.

yep I get that part, the main question now is how to maximise my BTC after making an irrational sale... I believe in AM but 4ish could have been the ceiling for the time being. I don't have the time or expertise to make a calculation on this so reaching out to the community can (and not definitely will) help just to get a new perspective while I kick myself a bit.

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Jutarul
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August 02, 2013, 06:13:28 PM
 #10710

yep I get that part, the main question now is how to maximise my BTC after making an irrational sale... I believe in AM but 4ish could have been the ceiling for the time being. I don't have the time or expertise to make a calculation on this so reaching out to the community can (and not definitely will) help just to get a new perspective while I kick myself a bit.
If you're uncertain don't sell it all, keep a fraction. Also re-investing all your BTC into equity is risky, because it exposes you to having to short sell. Don't get infected by the rampage going on in other stocks. Do your due diligence. Holding BTC is still a good strategy if you don't have the time to make bitcoin related investment decisions, because BTC itself is a commodity which is bound to appreciate and it has no counter-party risk.

Spray and pray can work - but only if you don't miss the golden goose. The mining landscape becomes more crowded now since the run-up in bitcoin price (which makes the NRE costs worth it). Please know that most of these offerings are a strategy of these companies to outsource the investment risk - i.e. the NRE and initial production costs - while retaining a large fraction of the equity. If these companies don't make back their NRE and production costs in yield (given they don't fail), then you're looking at an overvaluation at IPO. In that case it is prudent to wait until the valuation has adjusted to fairly priced.

The situation for ASICMINER is slightly different than for newcomers. ASICMINER is already well capitalized and can use proceeds to grow the operation and business. It would require a massive VC funding to get any of the newcomers equally capitalized. Thus ASICMINER has less risk exposure. However, as stated elsewhere, the pricing for ASICMINER has less room for growth (if you're searching for the 10-fold investment type).

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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August 02, 2013, 07:10:31 PM
 #10711

If you're uncertain don't sell it all, keep a fraction. Also re-investing all your BTC into equity is risky, because it exposes you to having to short sell. Don't get infected by the rampage going on in other stocks. Do your due diligence. Holding BTC is still a good strategy if you don't have the time to make bitcoin related investment decisions, because BTC itself is a commodity which is bound to appreciate and it has no counter-party risk.

Spray and pray can work - but only if you don't miss the golden goose. The mining landscape becomes more crowded now since the run-up in bitcoin price (which makes the NRE costs worth it). Please know that most of these offerings are a strategy of these companies to outsource the investment risk - i.e. the NRE and initial production costs - while retaining a large fraction of the equity. If these companies don't make back their NRE and production costs in yield (given they don't fail), then you're looking at an overvaluation at IPO. In that case it is prudent to wait until the valuation has adjusted to fairly priced.

The situation for ASICMINER is slightly different than for newcomers. ASICMINER is already well capitalized and can use proceeds to grow the operation and business. It would require a massive VC funding to get any of the newcomers equally capitalized. Thus ASICMINER has less risk exposure. However, as stated elsewhere, the pricing for ASICMINER has less room for growth (if you're searching for the 10-fold investment type).

+1, well said.
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August 02, 2013, 09:59:51 PM
 #10712

It's poll time!

Please review the questions below, and consider whether there are any you would like added to this poll.

If you would like to add a question, pm it to me.

Please try to be reasonable with any submitted questions, and understand that not all suggestions will be used.

QUESTIONS

Does ASICMINER/Bitfountain intend to create and official website and/or blog outside of the bitcointalk forums?
 
Does ASICMINER have plans to develop a marketing campaign to extend beyond word of mouth and business on the bitcointalk.org?
 
Originally, board members were going to receive a test unit of an ASIC mining device. Will you provide this or any other tangible items to board members in the future?
 
Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?
 
For more transparency, is it possible to share a wallet address for depositing income from ASICMINER hardware sales?

What are the plans regarding the Official ASICMINER Exchange? Have they been dropped?

Besides mining, hardware sales, and fees, are there any other potential sources of revenue?

 
madmax_ger
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August 02, 2013, 11:25:48 PM
 #10713

Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?

great questions, nice work. But wasn't that quoted one already asked?
I remember FC said something like that they are working on this, and they would give access to that, then.

Am I wrong?
What's about this?

http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php - check it out!next difficulty + time leftcustomizable monthly (diff + USD/BTC) increasements device lead timeupdate: auto-compares device costs to BTC-buy profit ♥ 1btciBCKb59TbzNj5QzC2EXWDARxtJL1f
maco
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August 02, 2013, 11:53:59 PM
 #10714

Feeling good about AM Tongue
empoweoqwj
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August 03, 2013, 04:55:20 AM
 #10715

It's poll time!

Please review the questions below, and consider whether there are any you would like added to this poll.

If you would like to add a question, pm it to me.

Please try to be reasonable with any submitted questions, and understand that not all suggestions will be used.

QUESTIONS

Does ASICMINER/Bitfountain intend to create and official website and/or blog outside of the bitcointalk forums?
 
Does ASICMINER have plans to develop a marketing campaign to extend beyond word of mouth and business on the bitcointalk.org?
 
Originally, board members were going to receive a test unit of an ASIC mining device. Will you provide this or any other tangible items to board members in the future?
 
Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?
 
For more transparency, is it possible to share a wallet address for depositing income from ASICMINER hardware sales?

What are the plans regarding the Official ASICMINER Exchange? Have they been dropped?

Besides mining, hardware sales, and fees, are there any other potential sources of revenue?

 

Personally I'd much rather see a question in there about whether a sale of AM to a larger company is possible, and if so, under what conditions, and what would shareholders get out of it. There has been quite a bit of discussion about this on the boards and no two people seem to have the same take on it. Love to hear what friedcat had to say.
lucasjkr
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August 03, 2013, 05:09:29 AM
 #10716

It's poll time!

Please review the questions below, and consider whether there are any you would like added to this poll.

If you would like to add a question, pm it to me.

Please try to be reasonable with any submitted questions, and understand that not all suggestions will be used.

QUESTIONS

Does ASICMINER/Bitfountain intend to create and official website and/or blog outside of the bitcointalk forums?
 
Does ASICMINER have plans to develop a marketing campaign to extend beyond word of mouth and business on the bitcointalk.org?
 
Originally, board members were going to receive a test unit of an ASIC mining device. Will you provide this or any other tangible items to board members in the future?
 
Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?
 
For more transparency, is it possible to share a wallet address for depositing income from ASICMINER hardware sales?

What are the plans regarding the Official ASICMINER Exchange? Have they been dropped?

Besides mining, hardware sales, and fees, are there any other potential sources of revenue?

 

I would ask, believing that I heard that AM was aiming to maintain a steady 30% of the network hashrate, if that number is still achievable. Put another way, with BFL shipments obviously coming online, and other far more efficient offerings to come in the future from others (KnCMiner being an obvious contender, assuming, as always that they follow through) does AM believe that 30% is still achievable? If not, what number should we hope that AM will strive for? The target percentage of network hashrate having a huge impact on BTC flow, and therefore BTC dividends, and therefore the perceived value of AM, as an enterprise and on a per-sharew basis.

Or is that question too long?
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August 03, 2013, 05:18:06 AM
 #10717

You're worried about BFL shipments coming online??  LOL that's like saying you're worried about USB asicminers coming online..

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August 03, 2013, 05:58:49 AM
 #10718

It's poll time!

Please review the questions below, and consider whether there are any you would like added to this poll.

If you would like to add a question, pm it to me.

Please try to be reasonable with any submitted questions, and understand that not all suggestions will be used.

QUESTIONS

Does ASICMINER/Bitfountain intend to create and official website and/or blog outside of the bitcointalk forums?
 
Does ASICMINER have plans to develop a marketing campaign to extend beyond word of mouth and business on the bitcointalk.org?
 
Originally, board members were going to receive a test unit of an ASIC mining device. Will you provide this or any other tangible items to board members in the future?
 
Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?
 
For more transparency, is it possible to share a wallet address for depositing income from ASICMINER hardware sales?

What are the plans regarding the Official ASICMINER Exchange? Have they been dropped?

Besides mining, hardware sales, and fees, are there any other potential sources of revenue?

 

I would ask, believing that I heard that AM was aiming to maintain a steady 30% of the network hashrate, if that number is still achievable. Put another way, with BFL shipments obviously coming online, and other far more efficient offerings to come in the future from others (KnCMiner being an obvious contender, assuming, as always that they follow through) does AM believe that 30% is still achievable? If not, what number should we hope that AM will strive for? The target percentage of network hashrate having a huge impact on BTC flow, and therefore BTC dividends, and therefore the perceived value of AM, as an enterprise and on a per-sharew basis.

Or is that question too long?

BFL is the least of anyone in the mining space's worries. (Well assuming you aren't actually waiting for a BFL hardware delivery.)

-helixone
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August 03, 2013, 06:38:11 AM
 #10719

It's poll time!

Please review the questions below, and consider whether there are any you would like added to this poll.

If you would like to add a question, pm it to me.

Please try to be reasonable with any submitted questions, and understand that not all suggestions will be used.

QUESTIONS

Does ASICMINER/Bitfountain intend to create and official website and/or blog outside of the bitcointalk forums?
 
Does ASICMINER have plans to develop a marketing campaign to extend beyond word of mouth and business on the bitcointalk.org?
 
Originally, board members were going to receive a test unit of an ASIC mining device. Will you provide this or any other tangible items to board members in the future?
 
Could we have an official live hashrate meter from ASICMINER?
 
For more transparency, is it possible to share a wallet address for depositing income from ASICMINER hardware sales?

What are the plans regarding the Official ASICMINER Exchange? Have they been dropped?

Besides mining, hardware sales, and fees, are there any other potential sources of revenue?

 

I would ask, believing that I heard that AM was aiming to maintain a steady 30% of the network hashrate, if that number is still achievable. Put another way, with BFL shipments obviously coming online, and other far more efficient offerings to come in the future from others (KnCMiner being an obvious contender, assuming, as always that they follow through) does AM believe that 30% is still achievable? If not, what number should we hope that AM will strive for? The target percentage of network hashrate having a huge impact on BTC flow, and therefore BTC dividends, and therefore the perceived value of AM, as an enterprise and on a per-sharew basis.

Or is that question too long?

BFL is the least of anyone in the mining space's worries. (Well assuming you aren't actually waiting for a BFL hardware delivery.)

-helixone

BFL aside, it's a good question. Given the recent IPO's and other announcements around new mining ventures  (Labrat,  BTC Garden Hashfast etc), it would be very useful to re-check FC's view on the likely total network hashrate at the end of the year, and what proportion of this the current business plan predict's AM will still control.

Also - is there a danger that hardware sales/franchises will be hit if the hashrate rises too steeply and hardware intended to be sold is instead required to maintain network percentage...
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August 03, 2013, 06:47:01 AM
 #10720

I know reading is hard, but posting here is not the way to get your question considered:

If you would like to add a question, pm it to me.

Emphasis is TAT's

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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