ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[hdbuck]

According to canary, gen4 is 28nm.

I think the be200 chip is 40nm.
Anybody know what the be300 chip will be?
28nm, 20nm...

28

Edit: intel is only about to release its 14nm chip: http://www.itpro.co.uk/mobile/22111/intel-broadwell-core-m-release-date-set-for-october

Intel's tic-toc innovation process:



Intel's manufacturing road map:





Moore law should reach its thermodynamic limit at around 5 nm. After that, other technology than transistors, such as photonics, optoelectronics or carbon nano-tubes should take on.

Here is a figure i've done for my dissertation (More Moore vs More than Moore):



Beyond leakage and Lithography, there is a long list of mounting difficulties for the industry to continue to deliver Moore's Law. Virtually, no process step is exempt from challenges: material challenges for interconnect layers will surface soon, similar to those described for transistor layers, the increase in power density poses material challenge as well, as do metrology, test, defect detection and measurement of smaller and 3D structures. If none of these barriers appear insurmountable, their combination is clearly changing the economic side of Moore's Law and increasing the chances of roadmap slippage and slower node transitions

So in fact, i dont think we will see 14nm ShA ASICs or even 22nm before some long time (all things being relative, and as opposed to how fast they catched up with the 28nm technology). It's just too expensive and they yet have to improve and squeeze the 28nm designs out there first, which should take a year or two imho.

Crossing fingers for Gen4 to be good and compete well.

[jjdub7]

...

A very well-read and well-relayed response - solid overview, thanks.

[rudi]

Prediction: No dividends before gen4 is taped out, tested, and friedcat is satisfied with the result.

If gen4 fails to satisfy friedcat, the funds that could have been used to pay out dividends will be used for a contingency plan.

This would be a reasonable thing to do. It might also partially explain why no divs have been paid out in August: Funds are being retained a bit longer, in case the imminent tape-out of gen4 fails or fizzles.

Disclaimer: I'm pulling this theory out of my ass.

This is a reasonable idea.  And a good business decision as well.

That would be horrible for shareholders. You do know how much time passes from tape-out till you can actually test the chip?

No. I actually don't.

Me neither, but I'd like to know. Why does it have to be longer than a few weeks?

[Fortega]

...

A very well-read and well-relayed response - solid overview, thanks.

Too bad his signature ruins it all.

[vortex1878]

Prediction: No dividends before gen4 is taped out, tested, and friedcat is satisfied with the result.

If gen4 fails to satisfy friedcat, the funds that could have been used to pay out dividends will be used for a contingency plan.

This would be a reasonable thing to do. It might also partially explain why no divs have been paid out in August: Funds are being retained a bit longer, in case the imminent tape-out of gen4 fails or fizzles.

Disclaimer: I'm pulling this theory out of my ass.

This is a reasonable idea.  And a good business decision as well.

That would be horrible for shareholders. You do know how much time passes from tape-out till you can actually test the chip?

No. I actually don't.

Me neither, but I'd like to know. Why does it have to be longer than a few weeks?

For AM's Gen3 tape-out happened around mid to late January 2014. Testing was done on March 28th/29th. So that was approx. 8-9 weeks from tape-out (which is very quick). I am not an expert in this field but others stated that this normally takes a minimum of 3 months.

EDIT: To avoid any misunderstandings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out

[jjdub7]

Also, once mining numbers are released, can we get a count on the total number of BTC produced by AM, and (though highly unlikely more than an estimate) BTC produced by AM-built hardware?  These numbers are easy for both investors and customers to understand, and it shouldn't take more than a day to come up with those numbers.

[VeeMiner]

Also, once mining numbers are released, can we get a count on the total number of BTC produced by AM, and (though highly unlikely more than an estimate) BTC produced by AM-built hardware?  These numbers are easy for both investors and customers to understand, and it shouldn't take more than a day to come up with those numbers.

what would you want that number for? Apart from having an interesting statistic...

[rudi]

Prediction: No dividends before gen4 is taped out, tested, and friedcat is satisfied with the result.

If gen4 fails to satisfy friedcat, the funds that could have been used to pay out dividends will be used for a contingency plan.

This would be a reasonable thing to do. It might also partially explain why no divs have been paid out in August: Funds are being retained a bit longer, in case the imminent tape-out of gen4 fails or fizzles.

Disclaimer: I'm pulling this theory out of my ass.

This is a reasonable idea.  And a good business decision as well.

That would be horrible for shareholders. You do know how much time passes from tape-out till you can actually test the chip?

No. I actually don't.

Me neither, but I'd like to know. Why does it have to be longer than a few weeks?

For AM's Gen3 tape-out happened around mid to late January 2014. Testing was done on March 28th/29th. So that was approx. 8-9 weeks from tape-out (which is very quick). I am not an expert in this field but others stated that this normally takes a minimum of 3 months.

EDIT: To avoid any misunderstandings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out

Tape-out of gen3 was sometime in February, though I think we never got a confirmation on the exact date:

The tapout date is pulled back to early Feburary due to further modifications for robustness and stability, but mass delivery date is still March.

So it seems that AM was very quick indeed in that respect.

Something else that I haven't seen mentioned in a long time is the following:

4) The next gen chips, BE300, are likely to be compatible with BE200 with respect to pinouts and package. Therefore all efforts on BE200 based designs are always useful in the long term.

To me, this means that the transition from gen3 products to gen4 products should be quite fast as well.

[vortex1878]

Thanks for the correction, rudi. In fact I had pulled the tape-out date from my memory. But testing date is accurate. Still 8 weeks from tape-out to testing though.

[lunarboy]

To save scanning pages of this thread. Can anyone tell me about the tape out for Gen 4? It's been announced, but has a date been mentioned?

thanks

[feifa]

Also, once mining numbers are released, can we get a count on the total number of BTC produced by AM, and (though highly unlikely more than an estimate) BTC produced by AM-built hardware?  These numbers are easy for both investors and customers to understand, and it shouldn't take more than a day to come up with those numbers.

This address maybe AM's mining address, because BTC in the address have been transfered to 17EA1UT5amSvasuhzUDPs1pLgxdrbRYLAX which
has relation with the sale address.

https://blockchain.info/address/1H7FpBV8huVmPvt5eRzszAkgnERH2FaWvq

[hdbuck]

To save scanning pages of this thread. Can anyone tell me about the tape out for Gen 4? It's been announced, but has a date been mentioned?

thanks

No dates so far. But everything on schedule according to board member.

[RoadStress]

For AM's Gen3 tape-out happened around mid to late January 2014. Testing was done on March 28th/29th. So that was approx. 8-9 weeks from tape-out (which is very quick). I am not an expert in this field but others stated that this normally takes a minimum of 3 months.

EDIT: To avoid any misunderstandings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out

I think you should also mention when was the first miner running and when sales started (which was ~2 months after the first chip demo)

[rudi]

To save scanning pages of this thread. Can anyone tell me about the tape out for Gen 4? It's been announced, but has a date been mentioned?

thanks

No official announcement regarding the date, other than that it's going to happen before the end of the year.
We know that board members know the date, but they don't want to make it public.
There is a rumor that tape-out will happen in less than a week.

[rudi]

Also, once mining numbers are released, can we get a count on the total number of BTC produced by AM, and (though highly unlikely more than an estimate) BTC produced by AM-built hardware?  These numbers are easy for both investors and customers to understand, and it shouldn't take more than a day to come up with those numbers.

This address maybe AM's mining address, because BTC in the address have been transfered to 17EA1UT5amSvasuhzUDPs1pLgxdrbRYLAX which
has relation with the sale address.

https://blockchain.info/address/1H7FpBV8huVmPvt5eRzszAkgnERH2FaWvq

Thanks, feifa!

[lunarboy]

There is a rumor that tape-out will happen in less than a week.

Who doesn't love, a good positive rumour 



Generally appreciating the high level of conversation recently.

Pleasant change 

[jdany]

There is a rumor that tape-out will happen in less than a week.

Generally appreciating the high level of conversation recently.

Pleasant change 

Yes!  Everyone loves a good spat - but it gets old and boring after a bit.
Loving it.

[hl5460]

10btc/hour goes to the AM mining income address. 4 tx in a row so far.

[hdbuck]

10btc/hour goes to the AM mining income address. 4 tx in a row so far.

https://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i



edit: and it does have some similarity with the one feifa mentioned: https://blockchain.info/address/1H7FpBV8huVmPvt5eRzszAkgnERH2FaWvq (10BTC transactions)

[Ditto]

edit: and it does have some similarity with the one feifa mentioned: https://blockchain.info/address/1H7FpBV8huVmPvt5eRzszAkgnERH2FaWvq (10BTC transactions)

Not just the amount. Both addresses have been receiving 10BTC transactions from BTC Guild.