ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[DiabloD3]

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?

Because friedcat decided to not relist shares on an exchange after GLBSE went down.

And I don't blame him. Took me a long while to get over the anger before I relisted DMC.

[hammurabi]

Can anyone elaborate why the "real" shares can't be on BTC-TC?

The exchange has to prove itself to be reliable, robust and trustworthy before AM is officially traded there.
BTC.TC seems to be on the good path towards this goal.

[BigBitz]

Hmm. I bought some shares from an auction [ineededausername] and he has confirmed all share transactions have taken place. I am yet to receive mine or associated dividends. I have PM friedcat also and no reply.

any ideas?

[aahzmundus]

I also bought shares in that auction, however because I bought a big chunk and I paid promptly he split me off into a separate transaction.

I can tell you that whatever happened... he is honest and is not trying to scam you I would imagine, as I did get my dividends, and I am sure he will forward you any missed dividends if he ended up still holding the shares at the time.  He has transferred at least 705 shares of his out in the last week according to the blockchain.  What address did you send to him and friedcat to receive dividands at?

[Lethos]

I'm sure it all be sorted out, Friedcat has done an excellent job in dealing with share trading since the collapse of GLBSE.

[SebastianJu]

3. Allowed users to convert real shares to PT shares for simplicity in trading (and you can turn PT into real shares... minimum 250?).

Minimum 250 shares with deadterras PT. But he wrote me that number is not set in stone, a bit lower possible if deadterra is ok with it. Burnsides PT has minimum 1.

Because people often ask such questions i made a small overview about the pros/cons of having real shares or PT-Shares and the pros/cons of the both PTs.

Please correct any wrong or missing infos. I would like to post this post in a new thread to cover all the questions "where to buy", differences PT and so on...

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* Direct Contract with friedcat
* No Fees (Only donations for escrow while trading shares, if one was used. But thats not needed if youre greedy.)
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares
Con:
* Harder to trade / Slower access to bitcoins/shares. Find an auction, start a thread or check the orderbook thread that is dead now. But maybe you find a relatively new offer in the orderbook thread and you can contact the user via pm about this.
* Possibility that you have to buy starting from a certain amount of shares, for example starting from 10 or 50. Means you need more money to invest often.
* Escrow needed for security in trading (there are free escrows, but a donation would be nice)

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Pro:
* Easily tradeable on the exchanges / Faster access to bitcoins/shares
Con:
* Fees
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares
* No direct contract with friedcat but with burnside/deadterra, adding another small layer of insecurity
* Bound to an exchange, adding another small layer of insecurity

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually Higher Shareprice for sellers
* AM-PT: Change PT-Shares into real shares starting from 1 share
* btct.co: "Deposits: Free | Withdrawals: 0 BTC FLAT FEE | Transfers (BTC): Free | Transfers (Assets): Free | Issue Dividends: Free"
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually Higher Shareprice for buyers
* AM-PT: 0.5 BTC fee for exchanging AM-PT to AM-Shares or the other way around. Per transaction, not per Share!
* AM-PT: "A management fee of X% will be levied on each dividend payment where X is determined by the number of shares currently managed by the pass through.  For under 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 3%.  For over 1000 shares, the management fee shall be 2%.  For over 3000 shares, the management fee shall be 1.5%.  For over 5000 shares the management fee shall be 1%.  For over 10000 shares the management fee shall be 0.5%."
* btct.co: Trading-Fees: "Trades using 2FA (Buyer): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades using 2FA (Seller): 0.2% (Trade Value X 0.002)
Trades not using 2FA (Buyer): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)
Trades not using 2FA (Seller): 0.25% (Trade Value X 0.0025)"

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually Lower Shareprice for buyers
* AM-PT: Each G.ASICMINER-PT share has the right to 100% of the dividends of 1 ASICMINER share. (No management fee)
* AM-PT: Transferring AM-PT-Shares to AM-Shares or the other way around have no fee
* bitfunder.com: Buying shares has no fee.
* bitfunder.com: No other fess than selling fees.
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually Lower Shareprice for sellers
* AM-PT: Change PT-Shares into real shares starting from 250 shares (not set in stone, a bit lower possible if deadterra is ok with it)
* bitfunder.com: Selling fees range between between 1% and 0.5%(or lower with discounts) based on your account tier.
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co

[JimiQ84]

I need update so baaad... 

[furuknap]

...a very nice update

Thanks for providing this overview, I'm certain it is extremely valuable to new investors.

.b

[JimiQ84]

hashrate on btcguild is 7.4 TH/s for some time now. Mini deployment? :-)

EDIT: just hit 7.5, definitely deploying, hooray!

[velacreations]

hashrate on btcguild is 7.4 TH/s for some time now. Mini deployment? :-)

EDIT: just hit 7.5, definitely deploying, hooray!

Hopefully so, and then friedcat is waiting to finish for the update.  That's what I am hoping!

[SebastianJu]

...a very nice update

Thanks for providing this overview, I'm certain it is extremely valuable to new investors.

.b

Thanks. I would like that all errors and missing infos are being put into. So that maybe a sticky thread could be made out of it.

[talnted]

Now at 7.6 on BTC Guild. I know ASICMiner is deploying to other pools, any idea if the hashing is showing up anywhere else?

[SmiGueL]

Now at 7.6 on BTC Guild. I know ASICMiner is deploying to other pools, any idea if the hashing is showing up anywhere else?

7,664.05 GH/s now

Nothing to see on Ozco.in

[louong]

Great summary, SebastianJu. Just wanted to add:

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Con:
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co

[lophie]

Fixed?

Great summary, SebastianJu. Just wanted to add:

Asicminer-Shares to Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares Comparison:

Asicminer-Shares:
Pro:
* No delayed dividends compared to passthrough shares

Con:
* Harder to liquidate the asset

Asicminer-Passthrough-Shares:
Pro:
* Easier to liquidate and buy backs

Con:
* Delayed dividends compared to non-passthrough shares

Asicminer-Passthroughs Comparison:

Burnsides AM-PT on btct.co
Pro:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends less delayed than AM-PT on bitfunder.com

DeadTerras AM-PT on bitfunder.com
Con:
* AM-PT: Usually dividends more delayed than AM-PT on btct.co

[louong]

Fixed?

I believe your points about the liquidity are already in the original summary by SebastianJu? I was just adding points about the dividends and delays, so I felt there was no need to requote everything.

[velacreations]

I just saw that Wired received a BFL unit.  Are they shipping?  And if so, how does that affect plans and profit?

[furuknap]

I just saw that Wired received a BFL unit.  Are they shipping?  And if so, how does that affect plans and profit?

I'm a current investor, so keep that in mind as a disclaimer.

I don't see BFL shipping as any immediate threats to profit. The plans were laid out a long time ago, and friedcat has been keeping everyone updated on the progress in a very commendable way.

For profit, the only aspect where I 'fear' an impact is in sales of units.

AM had just proven that they can deliver in less than four days from sale, which is about as amazing as finding a herd of unicorns (where finding a single unicorn is quite common). This is awesome, _however_ the price their recent auction attracted was largely because of timing. AM could deliver, BFL could not (and Avalon was sold out). Now, BFL evidently can deliver (albeit slowly) and Avalon wants to sell a batch #4.

This will probably impact sales prices of AM units, maybe drastically. This is bad news because selling a unit is essentially realizing its entire lifetime of revenue at once, avoiding the whole arms race thing completely. This greatly reduces risk and allows AM to put money into research to create new and improved chips. Without those sales, they will have to wait for 'regular' revenue to catch up or drop prices. If prices drop due to BFL and Avalon being more available, maybe the train for high-priced ASICs from AM has left, and they will get much less profit for the next batch than they anticipate.

This is all just random babble, though. Don't take anything I say as financial advice because I really have no idea what will happen.

.b

[velacreations]

I don't see BFL shipping as any immediate threats to profit. The plans were laid out a long time ago, and friedcat has been keeping everyone updated on the progress in a very commendable way.

For profit, the only aspect where I 'fear' an impact is in sales of units.

AM had just proven that they can deliver in less than four days from sale, which is about as amazing as finding a herd of unicorns (where finding a single unicorn is quite common). This is awesome, _however_ the price their recent auction attracted was largely because of timing. AM could deliver, BFL could not (and Avalon was sold out). Now, BFL evidently can deliver (albeit slowly) and Avalon wants to sell a batch #4.

This will probably impact sales prices of AM units, maybe drastically. This is bad news because selling a unit is essentially realizing its entire lifetime of revenue at once, avoiding the whole arms race thing completely. This greatly reduces risk and allows AM to put money into research to create new and improved chips. Without those sales, they will have to wait for 'regular' revenue to catch up or drop prices. If prices drop due to BFL and Avalon being more available, maybe the train for high-priced ASICs from AM has left, and they will get much less profit for the next batch than they anticipate.

ok, maybe what I meant to say was how will this affect the short-term deployment plan?  I assume friedcat is getting things online ASAP, so there's probably not much he can do on that front, but if this does affect sales, will we be changing the strategy a bit to mine more, sell less?

And will any of this affect my weekly dividend?

Maybe friedcat can talk about this in the weekly update today or tomorrow, I am interested to see how we address this change in the market.

[ineededausername]

Imagine if overnight, asicminer went to 10 TH/s