ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[bitmoon]

Literally anything you do with btc will not yeild as much return as just holding btc due to the rapid increase in price. In terms of USD almost everyone who bought an asic or invested in asicminer came out ahead.

The reason we are seeing such a price dip is because gen2 chips from AM were skipped which lead to a long gap between new hardware. The reason it was skipped was due to unsatisfactory performance and FC believes gen3 is more promising. Also by skipping gen2, gen3 will arrive sooner.

i checked friedcats posts, and i don't see any statement where he says gen2 is skipped, etc

any link to source where it says gen 2 is stopped/skipped?

I believe it was mentioned in the interview and was confirmed by board member jutarul.

jutarul is in this forum? link?

any reason why friedcat didn't want to include update of gen2 progress(skipped or whatever) in his couple of latest updates?

edit: oh never mind, i see jutarul, lol i am red face 

[empoweoqwj]

Simply I just quit playing for now, lost 82% of my BTC asset. I don't blame anyone but my own poor judgement of investment. Without proper regulation and stable exchange, BTC securities investment is just a kid's play, of course, a dangerous one.

it's a kids play if you don't know how to play. Of course crappy exchanges are a big problem, I just hope the free market will take care of it in near future (meaning that there will be at least a few stable and reliant exchanges). I'm holding direct shares which is obviously the safest option right now but if I wanted to trade with them it's pretty hard.

Is there a way to play the game right now??

I have invested in both AM and KNC (2nd day order !) at different times, and both have seriously let me down.

I'm really worried about the mining ecosystem...

1. GHash.io is the largest pool. They have proven to be dishonest.
2. ASICMiner tanked and its health depends entirely on the promise of Gen3 for Q1.
3. I can't find an actual number..  but it seems to me like the vast majority of people who invested on (any) Gen1 ASIC lost money in terms of BTC. Let's not even mention the guys who pre-ordered BFL, they should've known.
4. All ASIC companies have pre-mined with the for-sale equipment (correct me if I'm wrong here, but that is my understanding).

For me it boils down to a dilemma I cannot wrap my head around:

If I make a money printing machine, why would I sell it for less than the money it can print?
If I sell it for less, who would wanna buy it?

It seems like all ASIC companies have chosen to sell for more than the machines can produce, and from their point of view, it was the correct decision.

They knew the answer to the second question: the inexperienced, the misinformed, the lazy and the gullible.

So what I want to know actually, is who profited the most out of Gen1 ?

Clearly it was not the customers.

All clues lead to the ASIC companies.

Why is it not reflected on div or cheaper costs for the next gen ??
How long can this strategy work, where all losses go to the customers and all profits to ASIC makers?

I'm not investing in mining again any time soon, but I see there are lots of people who think it's still a great idea to get on that 1st day pre-order..

I know there's a lot of experienced and heavily invested miners here. Maybe I'm missing something here? Can someone please enlighten me??

Keep your money in BTC

[empoweoqwj]

Literally anything you do with btc will not yeild as much return as just holding btc due to the rapid increase in price. In terms of USD almost everyone who bought an asic or invested in asicminer came out ahead.

The reason we are seeing such a price dip is because gen2 chips from AM were skipped which lead to a long gap between new hardware. The reason it was skipped was due to unsatisfactory performance and FC believes gen3 is more promising. Also by skipping gen2, gen3 will arrive sooner.

i checked friedcats posts, and i don't see any statement where he says gen2 is skipped, etc

any link to source where it says gen 2 is stopped/skipped?

I believe it was mentioned in the interview and was confirmed by board member jutarul.

jutarul is in this forum? link?

any reason why friedcat didn't want to include update of gen2 progress(skipped or whatever) in his couple of latest updates?

edit: oh never mind, i see jutarul, lol i am red face 

You still talking about Gen2 ? agggh! This stuff was put to be 2 monthsa go, please

[Jutarul]

Could you expand on this:

That narrative will change to power cost arbitrage, but not before the operating profit margins from mining are down to less than 2-5 fold.

There are two factors which need to be considered:
a) In the future no single ASIC hardware producer can install and maintain the amount of equipment they are able to produce, causing them to rely on customers to buy/rent the equipment
b) Different customers have different power and overhead costs. E.g. 0% operating profit at $0.20/kWh mean 100% operating profit at $0.10/kWh mean 900% operating profit at $0.02/kWh. There are only so many places around the world with low power costs...

That leads to a situation where there are simply not enough buyers for ASIC hardware at some point, forcing ASIC hardware producers to lower prices if they still want to keep selling equipment (and thus making lower and lower operating profit margins viable).

However, that said - the tech arbitrage can still go on for some time - I expect it to persist until the bitcoin price hits six to seven digits.

[bitmoon]

Literally anything you do with btc will not yeild as much return as just holding btc due to the rapid increase in price. In terms of USD almost everyone who bought an asic or invested in asicminer came out ahead.

The reason we are seeing such a price dip is because gen2 chips from AM were skipped which lead to a long gap between new hardware. The reason it was skipped was due to unsatisfactory performance and FC believes gen3 is more promising. Also by skipping gen2, gen3 will arrive sooner.

i checked friedcats posts, and i don't see any statement where he says gen2 is skipped, etc

any link to source where it says gen 2 is stopped/skipped?

I believe it was mentioned in the interview and was confirmed by board member jutarul.

jutarul is in this forum? link?

any reason why friedcat didn't want to include update of gen2 progress(skipped or whatever) in his couple of latest updates?

edit: oh never mind, i see jutarul, lol i am red face 

You still talking about Gen2 ? agggh! This stuff was put to be 2 monthsa go, please

yes, i searched this forum and only see some person say, its failed,  other say its not failed, just skipped.
what i don't see is friedcat post doesnt mention what happen to gen 2

[101111]

Maybe in the next set of Q's to FC we could ask if there's any progress on the Payment system and the Blockchain-based exchange, unless anyone knows something?

[Voodah]

Could you expand on this:

That narrative will change to power cost arbitrage, but not before the operating profit margins from mining are down to less than 2-5 fold.

There are two factors which need to be considered:
a) In the future no single ASIC hardware producer can install and maintain the amount of equipment they are able to produce, causing them to rely on customers to buy/rent the equipment
b) Different customers have different power and overhead costs. E.g. 0% operating profit at $0.20/kWh mean 100% operating profit at $0.10/kWh mean 900% operating profit at $0.02/kWh. There are only so many places around the world with low power costs...

That leads to a situation where there are simply not enough buyers for ASIC hardware at some point, forcing ASIC hardware producers to lower prices if they still want to keep selling equipment (and thus making lower and lower operating profit margins viable).

However, that said - the tech arbitrage can still go on for some time - I expect it to persist until the bitcoin price hits six to seven digits.

Oh wow.. I didn't expect things could last that long this way.

What solution do you see for the pricing scheme issues, thinking in terms of regular new Bitcoin end-users (not big miners or franchises)?
Is it a problem ASIC companies are interested in solving or is it part of the tech arbitrage? (BFL clearly isn't...)

The mass adoption of Ghash (at very high GH prices!) and their irresponsible use of the network power really frighten me. I would much rather have new people acquiring AM / KNC (either alone or in groupbuys), but I don't think the companies are making it easy for people to adopt them/stay loyal.

[empoweoqwj]

Maybe in the next set of Q's to FC we could ask if there's any progress on the Payment system and the Blockchain-based exchange, unless anyone knows something?

Good question. Completely forgot about that. But with the share price sliding towards zero, not sure FC wants to put his time into such a "small" venture ......

[empoweoqwj]

Literally anything you do with btc will not yeild as much return as just holding btc due to the rapid increase in price. In terms of USD almost everyone who bought an asic or invested in asicminer came out ahead.

The reason we are seeing such a price dip is because gen2 chips from AM were skipped which lead to a long gap between new hardware. The reason it was skipped was due to unsatisfactory performance and FC believes gen3 is more promising. Also by skipping gen2, gen3 will arrive sooner.

i checked friedcats posts, and i don't see any statement where he says gen2 is skipped, etc

any link to source where it says gen 2 is stopped/skipped?

I believe it was mentioned in the interview and was confirmed by board member jutarul.

jutarul is in this forum? link?

any reason why friedcat didn't want to include update of gen2 progress(skipped or whatever) in his couple of latest updates?

edit: oh never mind, i see jutarul, lol i am red face 

You still talking about Gen2 ? agggh! This stuff was put to be 2 monthsa go, please

yes, i searched this forum and only see some person say, its failed,  other say its not failed, just skipped.
what i don't see is friedcat post doesnt mention what happen to gen 2

Gen2 never happened. Let's just leave it at that. If you want more, contact FC's long-promised but non-existent PR department

[jimmothy]

Maybe in the next set of Q's to FC we could ask if there's any progress on the Payment system and the Blockchain-based exchange, unless anyone knows something?

Good question. Completely forgot about that. But with the share price sliding towards zero, not sure FC wants to put his time into such a "small" venture ......

I think the point of the blockchain based exchange was so FC wouldn't have to spend so much time manually transferring shares.

[szmarco]

A rumor...
There will be a forum organised by Zhongxing Security in Beijing on 17 Dec. FC will introduce AM to some traditional potential investors.

[jimmothy]

A rumor...
There will be a forum organised by Zhongxing Security in Beijing on 17 Dec. FC will introduce AM to some traditional potential investors.

Source?

[bitmoon]

Gen2 never happened. Let's just leave it at that. If you want more, contact FC's long-promised but non-existent PR department

its ok, jutarul answered me

[szmarco]

A rumor...
There will be a forum organised by Zhongxing Security in Beijing on 17 Dec. FC will introduce AM to some traditional potential investors.

Source?

It's a rumor..
Someone have received the invitation letters and posted it on QQ group.

[jimmothy]

A rumor...
There will be a forum organised by Zhongxing Security in Beijing on 17 Dec. FC will introduce AM to some traditional potential investors.

Source?

It's a rumor..
Someone have received the invitation letters and posted it on QQ group.

Sounds plausible.

- What will happen after all cubes are sold? Will there be anything coming between now and the first Gen 3 deployment?  During pre-production and production of the Gen3, most of our time will be spent on negotiating large chip orders (from us) and locating large-scale mining farm operations.

[empoweoqwj]

A rumor...
There will be a forum organised by Zhongxing Security in Beijing on 17 Dec. FC will introduce AM to some traditional potential investors.

Source?

It's a rumor..
Someone have received the invitation letters and posted it on QQ group.

Being approached by potential investors ...... Intel anyone?

[bitmoon]

whats up with havelock, it doesn't load the page.

offline/down?

[empoweoqwj]

whats up with havelock, it doesn't load the page.

offline/down?

Down for me. Wouldn't stress on it. Goes down every couple of weeks but never for very long.

[aahzmundus]

Up now for me: AM1 at 2.5 AM100 at .0024.

[binaryFate]

AM1 at 2.5

If only...