ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Mabsark]

Methinks Mabsark is upset  he missed

Wouldn't be surprising as his whole posting history is failed predictions.

Over 0.40 now. I don't get it. Worse dividends ever, no hope of anything better for weeks. Stock jumps up 50%.

Unless you account AM is in development mode again - same way shares that did not deliver anything yet, but promise future revenue, get traded.

Really pankkake? Remember when shares where going for 4+ BTC and I said this:

It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.

To which you replied:

AM will probably have better hardware to sell than what they have now by then. They will also be able to sell their old, less-efficients ASICs (sure it will be for less) if they replace them in their datacenter.

They have the experience and people know they ship. So I doubt they'll have trouble selling new hardware.

and,

You're missing the part where I think they will have better hardware, and while it will have to be priced better, it will also be still competitive. The selling of older hardware is just icing on the cake.

ASICMINER has a history of shipping and no false promises.

Also, I renew my scepticism of KNC having access to 28nm fabs.

Remind me how that turned out again. You guys are all blinded by greed again and you're all going to get burned again. I've shown you guys the numbers, if you don't believe those numbers, then use your own values and do the maths yourselves. Look at the facts.

Edit: I urge everyone to go back to page 20 of the speculation thread. The argument I made back then was blatantly obvious to me, yet I could count the number of people who understood that on one hand. People delude themselves into believing nonsense simply because they want that nonsense to be true. Unfortunately, reality does not work like that.

[101111]

So why did you pose those elaborate (albeit wrong) mining scenarios then challenge us to fault your maths? (rhetorical Q)

Those mining scenarios are neither wrong nor elaborate. It's a simple scenario I created because people seem to be expecting AM to just recapture 10% of the network with their new chips. I was highlighting the fact that even if AM didn't sell any hardware, they couldn't even maintain a 5% share for more than two rounds under those conditions.

What? So you're saying AM goes out of business? 20Ph and that's that?

No, I'm not. Friedcat has claimed the first batch will between 2 and 20 Ph/s. How long will it take to produce a new batch of miners? What will be the size of that batch? What will the network hash rate be when the miner start to come online, etc.

This is the same mistake people made when they were buying shares for 4+ BTC. The 2nd batch of chips will be nowhere near as profitable as the 1st batch.

I appreciate your opinion, but we have very different perspectives. A lot of this is subjective, some of the numbers rubbery at best, there's too many unknowns, life is short. I'll leave it at that.

[electerium]

Over 0.40 now. I don't get it. Worse dividends ever, no hope of anything better for weeks. Stock jumps up 50%.

What a surprise, people clearly haven't done the maths on this one.

Looking at the genesis block, the network hash rate will be 132.6 Ph/s on 14th April. If AM had 100 Th/s (gen1 mines) at that time then:

* AM would have 0.1 * 100 / 132.6 = 0.075% of the network hash rate.
* With 50,400 BTC mined per round, AM would get 37.8 BTC per round.
* With 37.8 BTC mined per round by AM, that would equate to 0.0000945 BTC per round per share

That's what divs will fall to before the new chips come online. If we then plug in the numbers for AM's proposed batch size of 2-20 Ph/s and assume that this is put together by 14th May, using genesis block again gives the network hash rate to be 263.8 Ph/s. This gives the following:

* 2 Ph/s would represent 0.76% of the network, which is worth 383.04 BTC per round and 0.0009576 BTC per round per share.
* 20 Ph/s would represent 7.58% of the network, which is worth 3820.32 BTC per round or 0.0095508 BTC per round per share.

Let say the network hash rate was 250 Ph/s (based on genesisblock) and AM controlled 5% of the network. That 5% would represent 12.5 Ph/s. If the network hash rate increases by 20% that round, that would take the network hash rate to 300 Ph/s. In order for AM to maintain their network share, AM would need to add 2.5 Ph/s by the end of that round. In order to maintain their hash rate, the following extra hash power would need to be brought online by the end of each round:

Round 1 = 2.5 Ph/s
Round 2 = 3 Ph/s
Round 3 = 3.6 Ph/s
Round 4 = 4.32 Ph/s
Round 5 = 5.184 Ph/s
Round 6 = 6.2208 Ph/s

If AM had 20 Ph/s (max batch size according to AM), 12.5 Ph/s would be needed to control 5% of the network, leaving 7.5 Ph/s for sales and maintaining the network share until a new batch of chips arrived. The first 3 rounds require more than 9.1 Ph/s to be brought online to maintain 5%.

If the network hash rate is around 250 Ph/s and AM's batch1 is 20 PH/s then it can't maintain network share beyond 2 rounds even if it didn't sell a single chip. In reality, AM will sell a good portion of their chips.

Now, if you are reading this comment, and you come to the conclusion that AM is a good buy at above IPO price, the perhaps you could show us the maths which lead to that conclusion. All the numbers I'm seeing tell me to avoid AM.

This reminds me of when people where paying 4+ BTC per share. Some of us pointed out back then that such prices where insane because the maths didn't support it and the same is happening now. People are assuming AM will bring their new chips online, capture significant network share, maintain that network share and still sell a large chunk of hardware. That's just not possible tough based on the numbers being reported.

Do the maths, people.

Ugh network hashrate today is roughly 12 Ph/s. By 7/2014 the mining forum says it should lie between 40-160 PH/s

[dmcdad]

If AM had 20 Ph/s in their mines and the network hash rate was 250 Ph/s (as predicted by genesisblock), then it isn't possible for AM even get 10% of the network. That would require 25 Ph/s. Once their chips are all used up, it's all downhill until new chips arrive.

Clearly, you didn't even bother reading what I said.

I do agree that the days of AM self-mining 10 to 20% of total network hash are likely over. But that doesn't matter.

AM isn't going to sell 20P and then go out of business. That is the FIRST BATCH of their next gen chips, which based on the prelim target specs will be highly competitive both in wafer cost and power efficiency.

It doesn't matter if AM self-mines, sells turnkey miners, or just sells chips as long as they are maximizing their profit. Is the profit margin for selling mining hardware decreasing? Of course, but based on the specs AM will be able to get a very healthy profit from their chips and/or miners.

[Rival]

There appears to be quite a bit of speculation as to whether AM is capable of capturing 5% or 10% of the global hash again. I think it it premature to suggest they cannot. It is still very early in the game and the future of bitcoin has not yet been written. The only certainty is that the landscape will be very different in a few years.

There is one projection i will make though: If AM manages to seize 5%, 10% or 20% of the global hash, it will give the term "butthurt" a whole new meaning for quite a few people in the mining business, both great and small. It does not appear that anyone anywhere is factoring in that possibility in their calculations.

[superduh]

whatever happens friedcat should do some form of update... hopefully soon

[kingcrimson]

Methinks Mabsark is upset  he missed

Wouldn't be surprising as his whole posting history is failed predictions.

Over 0.40 now. I don't get it. Worse dividends ever, no hope of anything better for weeks. Stock jumps up 50%.

Unless you account AM is in development mode again - same way shares that did not deliver anything yet, but promise future revenue, get traded.

Really pankkake? Remember when shares where going for 4+ BTC and I said this:

It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.

To which you replied:

AM will probably have better hardware to sell than what they have now by then. They will also be able to sell their old, less-efficients ASICs (sure it will be for less) if they replace them in their datacenter.

They have the experience and people know they ship. So I doubt they'll have trouble selling new hardware.

and,

You're missing the part where I think they will have better hardware, and while it will have to be priced better, it will also be still competitive. The selling of older hardware is just icing on the cake.

ASICMINER has a history of shipping and no false promises.

Also, I renew my scepticism of KNC having access to 28nm fabs.

Remind me how that turned out again. You guys are all blinded by greed again and you're all going to get burned again. I've shown you guys the numbers, if you don't believe those numbers, then use your own values and do the maths yourselves. Look at the facts.

Edit: I urge everyone to go back to page 20 of the speculation thread. The argument I made back then was blatantly obvious to me, yet I could count the number of people who understood that on one hand. People delude themselves into believing nonsense simply because they want that nonsense to be true. Unfortunately, reality does not work like that.

Aren't you the guy who was pumping Labcoin and so arrogant/confident how it would play out. Be sure to quote those posts too so we can see for every correct prediction you make an equally moronic one.

[jimmothy]

Methinks Mabsark is upset  he missed

Wouldn't be surprising as his whole posting history is failed predictions.

Over 0.40 now. I don't get it. Worse dividends ever, no hope of anything better for weeks. Stock jumps up 50%.

Unless you account AM is in development mode again - same way shares that did not deliver anything yet, but promise future revenue, get traded.

Really pankkake? Remember when shares where going for 4+ BTC and I said this:

It's my opinion that a lot of investors simply don't understand how mining works. If they did, then they would understand that AM hardware and shares are vastly overpriced.

Just like a lot of people paying silly money for mining bonds have found out, AM investors will come to the same realisation that share prices are currently way overpriced.

LISTEN AND LISTEN CAREFULLY. The only reason why AM is able to charge such outrageous prices is because they've had no competition. By the end of the year, there will be plenty of competition. Here's a quick comparison:

AM Block Erupter Blade
10 Gh/s
50 BTC = 5,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
2 Mh/s per USD

KNC Jupiter
350 Gh/s
7,000 USD @ 100 USD/BTC
50 Mh/s per USD

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there's going to be a lot less income from hardware sales due to competition. That same competition will also decrease AM's share of the network hash rate.

AM share holders are going to get hit by a good dose of reality in the coming months. Perhaps then they will stop listening to idiots trying to flog them overpriced stuff and do the maths themselves.

To which you replied:

AM will probably have better hardware to sell than what they have now by then. They will also be able to sell their old, less-efficients ASICs (sure it will be for less) if they replace them in their datacenter.

They have the experience and people know they ship. So I doubt they'll have trouble selling new hardware.

and,

You're missing the part where I think they will have better hardware, and while it will have to be priced better, it will also be still competitive. The selling of older hardware is just icing on the cake.

ASICMINER has a history of shipping and no false promises.

Also, I renew my scepticism of KNC having access to 28nm fabs.

Remind me how that turned out again. You guys are all blinded by greed again and you're all going to get burned again. I've shown you guys the numbers, if you don't believe those numbers, then use your own values and do the maths yourselves. Look at the facts.

Edit: I urge everyone to go back to page 20 of the speculation thread. The argument I made back then was blatantly obvious to me, yet I could count the number of people who understood that on one hand. People delude themselves into believing nonsense simply because they want that nonsense to be true. Unfortunately, reality does not work like that.

Aren't you the guy who was pumping Labcoin and so arrogant/confident how it would play out. Be sure to quote those posts too so we can see for every correct prediction you make an equally moronic one.

Not sure if mabsark is a troll or actually believes what he is posting. Either way I've found that by betting against mabsarks predictions you literally cannot lose money.

[Mabsark]

Aren't you the guy who was pumping Labcoin and so arrogant/confident how it would play out. Be sure to quote those posts too so we can see for every correct prediction you make an equally moronic one.

Yes, I stated on many occasions that Labcoin would be very profitable if it wasn't a scam. And it would have been. Unfortunately for a lot of people, it was a scam. How is that relevant? My arguments are based on the available data. Simple as that.

Not sure if mabsark is a troll or actually believes what he is posting. Either way I've found that by betting against mabsarks predictions you literally cannot lose money.

Pretty much everyone called me a troll back when shares were going for 4+ BTC, ignored my arguments, told everyone else to ignore my argument and put me on their ignore list, then carried on buying shares at 4+ BTC. Those people lost shit loads of money. The arguments I made were completely obvious yet most people could not help deluding themselves. Take a look at the argument yourself and tell me if you think it was obvious. Those people lost money because they ignored the facts and listened to people blinded by greed.

I'm not telling people to take my word as gospel, I'm telling people - as I always do - to do the maths themselves.

[SmiGueL]

Aren't you the guy who was pumping Labcoin and so arrogant/confident how it would play out. Be sure to quote those posts too so we can see for every correct prediction you make an equally moronic one.

Is it worth buying shares now? Is there a chance their price could significantly increase?

It's pretty much a certainty at this point. Expect the share price to hit 0.01 BTC by the end of the week.

You keep calling me an amateur like that's supposed to be an insult instead of it being a simple meaningless fact. I've only been investing since May and nobody pays me to do so, so yes I am an amateur. Doesn't change the fact that I'm up around 25,000% though. My investments have been a major success for me so far.

lol a self-confesed amateur who is giving people financial advice on public forums. Don't you love it. No one pays you? WOW how....unusual.
Congrats on the 25,000% increase. FECKIN LOL Wanna tell us you starting capital just to fill in the complete picture.
Luckily for me this is where the complacency and over-confidence comes in for you. I wish you well with your...500k USD?

Are you claiming you are not an amateur? That you are an investment banker or whatever they're called? The fact is, if anyone followed my advice and sold ActM to buy LC they would have made a profit. If they would have followed your advice and held ActM, they would have seen the price of their shares plummet.
My starting capital was about 0.01 BTC. Now go ahead and laugh about how poor I am but I'll be the one laughing in a couple of months time when I've turned that into 1000 BTC if my plans work out. That's an increase of 1,000,000% in about 6 months.

Oh, and let's not forget this post:

would someone who is clever than I please give me some network speed guestimates for year end please.

Between 2500 TH/s and 4000 TH/s
(30% jumps on each difficulty change)
This is conservative too.

30% increase each round for the rest of the year isn't plausible. It would lead to the hash rate being 11.15 Ph/s on the 31st of December with 2.573 Ph/s having been brought online in the previous 10.77 days. That's 239 Th/s coming online per day.
Not happening.

We're at 13+ PH/s at this moment..

So please stop spreading the FUD.


Don't get me wrong, If LABCOIN was delivering what they promised, the shareprice would defenitely increase. 100% agreed.

Asicminer however have proofed they deliver, they are able to scale (datacenter), have made some of the nicest mining producs I've seen (USB miners).
I really believe friedcat is gonna blow our minds this year again, sooner or later.

It's obvious that the network hashrate percentage of Asicminer currently isn't as high as everybody expected months ago,
but even you (and me neither) weren't expecting a 10+ PH/s by the end of 2013..

But I'm pretty sure friedcat learnt from that., and 'll be back in the game when he's ready for it.

[Pompobit]

Pretty much everyone called me a troll back when shares were going for 4+ BTC, ignored my arguments, told everyone else to ignore my argument and put me on their ignore list, then carried on buying shares at 4+ BTC. Those people lost shit loads of money. The arguments I made were completely obvious yet most people could not help deluding themselves. Take a look at the argument yourself and tell me if you think it was obvious. Those people lost money because they ignored the facts and listened to people blinded by greed.

pretty much everyone called you a troll when you constantly endorsed labcoin.
What about that?

[Mabsark]

Aren't you the guy who was pumping Labcoin and so arrogant/confident how it would play out. Be sure to quote those posts too so we can see for every correct prediction you make an equally moronic one.

Nooo of course he wasn't pumping, it's just math  LABCOIN is worth WAYYY over the 0.003 it was at that moment..

Is it worth buying shares now? Is there a chance their price could significantly increase?

It's pretty much a certainty at this point. Expect the share price to hit 0.01 BTC by the end of the week.

You keep calling me an amateur like that's supposed to be an insult instead of it being a simple meaningless fact. I've only been investing since May and nobody pays me to do so, so yes I am an amateur. Doesn't change the fact that I'm up around 25,000% though. My investments have been a major success for me so far.

lol a self-confesed amateur who is giving people financial advice on public forums. Don't you love it. No one pays you? WOW how....unusual.
Congrats on the 25,000% increase. FECKIN LOL Wanna tell us you starting capital just to fill in the complete picture.
Luckily for me this is where the complacency and over-confidence comes in for you. I wish you well with your...500k USD?

Are you claiming you are not an amateur? That you are an investment banker or whatever they're called? The fact is, if anyone followed my advice and sold ActM to buy LC they would have made a profit. If they would have followed your advice and held ActM, they would have seen the price of their shares plummet.
My starting capital was about 0.01 BTC. Now go ahead and laugh about how poor I am but I'll be the one laughing in a couple of months time when I've turned that into 1000 BTC if my plans work out. That's an increase of 1,000,000% in about 6 months.

Can we start laughing now?


Oh, and let's not forget this post:

would someone who is clever than I please give me some network speed guestimates for year end please.

Between 2500 TH/s and 4000 TH/s
(30% jumps on each difficulty change)
This is conservative too.

30% increase each round for the rest of the year isn't plausible. It would lead to the hash rate being 11.15 Ph/s on the 31st of December with 2.573 Ph/s having been brought online in the previous 10.77 days. That's 239 Th/s coming online per day. Not happening.

We're at 13+ Ph/s at this moment..


Please stop spreading the FUD and admit you've missed the boat.

Yes, I was wrong about Labcoin and yes I was wrong about the how much the hash rate would increase by. I never claimed to be infallible, I've probably been wrong millions of times in my life. So what? Have you never been wrong? Who here hasn't been wrong before?

Also, how many people here predicted that the hash rate would be this high. Not many.

Does any of that invalidate the arguments I've put forth? No, of course not. Go through my history as much as you want and put up everything I've been wrong about, I'm sure that will distract people from the actual argument I made.

I too can sling mud.

0.45 and we have a deal.

Take it or leave it, I really don't mind.


Don't forget we first have thousands of cubes to sell, and gen3 coming in January. (It's almost December now)


_{*Also send me a PM me for faster response}

For shame SmiGuel. You deliberately lied to people you were trying to flog your shares to by telling them that gen3 would be coming in January. That's proper scummy, especially considering that some people may think you are officially involved with AM because you do the charts.

So people, it's up to you, you can listen to a proven liar trying to flog overpriced shares or you can do the maths yourself.

[Pompobit]

Yes, I was wrong about Labcoin and yes I was wrong about the how much the hash rate would increase by. I never claimed to be infallible, I've probably been wrong millions of times in my life. So what? Have you never been wrong? Who here hasn't been wrong before?

Also, how many people here predicted that the hash rate would be this high. Not many.

Does any of that invalidate the arguments I've put forth? No, of course not. Go through my history as much as you want and put up everything I've been wrong about, I'm sure that will distract people from the actual argument I made.

I don't want to discract anyone from anything, but you was blaming people for haven't heard your suggestions in past and they lost money because that. I knew you only in the labcoin thread and luckily never trusted your advices

[Lloydie]

Yes, I was wrong about Labcoin and yes I was wrong about the how much the hash rate would increase by. I never claimed to be infallible, I've probably been wrong millions of times in my life. So what? Have you never been wrong? Who here hasn't been wrong before?

Also, how many people here predicted that the hash rate would be this high. Not many.

Does any of that invalidate the arguments I've put forth? No, of course not. Go through my history as much as you want and put up everything I've been wrong about, I'm sure that will distract people from the actual argument I made.

I don't want to discract anyone from anything, but you was blaming people for haven't heard your suggestions in past and they lost money because that. I knew you only in the labcoin thread and luckily never trusted your advices

I pretty much hit the ignore button on mabsark a few weeks ago. I think we're dealing with a little 12 year old.

[SmiGueL]

For shame SmiGuel. You deliberately lied to people you were trying to flog your shares to by telling them that gen3 would be coming in January. That's proper scummy, especially considering that some people may think you are officially involved with AM because you do the charts.

So people, it's up to you, you can listen to a proven liar trying to flog overpriced shares or you can do the maths yourself.

Liar?
This was after friedcats update: Gen3 in january and 2/3 of the cubes left to sell.
I'm not making it up, I'm just quoting friedcat.

Next Gen Chips
The projected time of taping out of Gen3 is January 20.

Current Hardware Sales
The number of cubes left for sale/deployment is 9000. About 1/3 are ordered already. All older devices (USBs/new blades) are sold out.

And regarding my 'overpriced' shares... they were going over 0.447 a few hours ago on Havelock.. so how can my offer be overpriced?

_{*Can we please stop this discussion? let's continue with PM's}

[Mabsark]

Yes, I was wrong about Labcoin and yes I was wrong about the how much the hash rate would increase by. I never claimed to be infallible, I've probably been wrong millions of times in my life. So what? Have you never been wrong? Who here hasn't been wrong before?

Also, how many people here predicted that the hash rate would be this high. Not many.

Does any of that invalidate the arguments I've put forth? No, of course not. Go through my history as much as you want and put up everything I've been wrong about, I'm sure that will distract people from the actual argument I made.

I don't want to discract anyone from anything, but you was blaming people for haven't heard your suggestions in past and they lost money because that. I knew you only in the labcoin thread and luckily never trusted your advices

Good, I don't want people blindly following my advice. I want them to take my arguments on board, think about them, do the maths themselves, then use their results to counter my arguments if we disagree.

My message is not "Everyone, listen to me!", it's "Stop listening to others and do the maths yourself!"

[Mabsark]

For shame SmiGuel. You deliberately lied to people you were trying to flog your shares to by telling them that gen3 would be coming in January. That's proper scummy, especially considering that some people may think you are officially involved with AM because you do the charts.

So people, it's up to you, you can listen to a proven liar trying to flog overpriced shares or you can do the maths yourself.

Liar?
This was after friedcats update: Gen3 in january and 2/3 of the cubes left to sell.
I'm not making it up..

Next Gen Chips
The projected time of taping out of Gen3 is January 20.

Current Hardware Sales
The number of cubes left for sale/deployment is 9000. About 1/3 are ordered already. All older devices (USBs/new blades) are sold out.

And regarding my 'overpriced' shares... they were even going over 0.447 a few hours ago on Havelock.. so how can that be overpriced?

Like I said, you should be ashamed of yourself for deliberately telling lies. Wait...are you saying you didn't know that tape out does not mean having miners in hand?

You actually think that AM will have gen 3 miners this month?

I'm not buying that at all.

[nodroids]

Maybe the proper analysis came along and people thought it made sense. Not ringing any bell, not me!

[kibblesnbits]

Aren't you the guy who was pumping Labcoin and so arrogant/confident how it would play out. Be sure to quote those posts too so we can see for every correct prediction you make an equally moronic one.

Yes, I stated on many occasions that Labcoin would be very profitable if it wasn't a scam. And it would have been. Unfortunately for a lot of people, it was a scam. How is that relevant? My arguments are based on the available data. Simple as that.

Not sure if mabsark is a troll or actually believes what he is posting. Either way I've found that by betting against mabsarks predictions you literally cannot lose money.

Pretty much everyone called me a troll back when shares were going for 4+ BTC, ignored my arguments, told everyone else to ignore my argument and put me on their ignore list, then carried on buying shares at 4+ BTC. Those people lost shit loads of money. The arguments I made were completely obvious yet most people could not help deluding themselves. Take a look at the argument yourself and tell me if you think it was obvious. Those people lost money because they ignored the facts and listened to people blinded by greed.

I'm not telling people to take my word as gospel, I'm telling people - as I always do - to do the maths themselves.

Only if they sold. 

[Rival]

My father (a font of wisdom hard earned) passed me down a small piece of advice that some should consider.

"Son, most people think they make money the day they sell something. Nothing could be more backwards. You make your money the day you buy. You would be surprised how many people lose money the day they sell. Learn the difference between gambling and investing. In gambling, you lay down your money and spin the wheel. If you win, you get paid, and if you lose, they take your money. The end. Investing is altogether different. The wheel keeps spinning and spinning and spinning. You get to choose when it stops."

For me, the AM wheel is still spinning. I think I will stop it later rather than sooner.