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NotLambchop
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June 15, 2014, 01:17:08 PM |
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... In FC i trust  Faith and optimism have always served Bitcoin investors well.  |
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I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES I HA(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ TABLES I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES
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vortex1878
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June 15, 2014, 04:48:50 PM |
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Friedcat executed my transfer request today. Let the divs come in..! |
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arousedrhino
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June 15, 2014, 05:10:41 PM |
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Yea two months would be quite conservative. Still, id rather be a little pessimistic and have a good surprise than the other way around  Healthy sentiment. I'm a little puzzled though, that so many people switched from "dividends imminent" to "well, it'll take till fall/winter". I for one - given FC's statement - am not really inclined to "give him" a couple of months. He intended to pay the first dividends in May (said so himself) and now he said "ASAP". Technically it can take months, given his statement, but that'd be really misleading. There was no such statement made by fc. It was jutaruls missinterpretation, i though we already cleared that matter. Am just need to make profit outta gen3. But these things take time when scaling up. There is many things to be done: self ops, finding the right/cheap places for own ops, deploying franchisees, managing open pcb design, planning new batches etc etc.. A whole new industry is rising and it would be foolish to rush in. In FC i trust Thank you, FC never said div's in May that was a miscommunication in information from FC to (A board member trying to help shareholders) to the shareholders. I have not changed my stance at all on the dividends since he has never set a firm date for them. I think others may have switched once FC answered the 20 questions we asked since they were really concerned that he left the operation. Also many people were in short term for a big dividend is my belief so when they weren't paid out when they expected they were pissed but thats the game they were playing with their BTC. |
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minerpumpkin
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June 15, 2014, 08:18:39 PM |
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...He intended to pay the first dividends in May (said so himself) and now he said "ASAP"....
There was no such statement made by fc. It was jutaruls missinterpretation,... Thank you, FC never said div's in May that was a miscommunication in information from FC to (A board member trying to help shareholders) to the shareholders....
False. FC stated the 27th of May. It was his answer, not Jutarul's interpretation. Jutarul only took 'blame' for the phrasing 'aggressive dividends'. FC only said there've been unexpected problems in May, 'that weren't part of the plan'. |
I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
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arousedrhino
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June 15, 2014, 08:24:55 PM |
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...He intended to pay the first dividends in May (said so himself) and now he said "ASAP"....
There was no such statement made by fc. It was jutaruls missinterpretation,... Thank you, FC never said div's in May that was a miscommunication in information from FC to (A board member trying to help shareholders) to the shareholders....
False. FC stated the 27th of May. It was his answer, not Jutarul's interpretation. Jutarul only took 'blame' for the phrasing 'aggressive dividends'. FC only said there've been unexpected problems in May, 'that weren't part of the plan'. Show me the quote and Ill eat my words. |
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JoTheKhan
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June 15, 2014, 08:28:16 PM |
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...He intended to pay the first dividends in May (said so himself) and now he said "ASAP"....
There was no such statement made by fc. It was jutaruls missinterpretation,... Thank you, FC never said div's in May that was a miscommunication in information from FC to (A board member trying to help shareholders) to the shareholders....
False. FC stated the 27th of May. It was his answer, not Jutarul's interpretation. Jutarul only took 'blame' for the phrasing 'aggressive dividends'. FC only said there've been unexpected problems in May, 'that weren't part of the plan'. Yup, Jutural only added the words "Aggressive Dividends". But everything FC said pointed to Aggressive Dividends too that would be on a monthly schedule starting around May 27th with the release of a financial report. So FC definitely did miss the deadline (by a (1-2) days) on a financial report and dividends have been (not 100% sure) used for the next round of chips. At the moment I believe the speculation was on whether the money from the second Batch of Chips would be used to fund the third Batch of Chips/Gen4 or be used for Dividends. I think FC answered this question with the 20 Questions though, stating that it was a 1:2 split but I'll have to go back and look. But FC has definitely mentioned his stance on dividends and when they were supposed to start paying out. I just think a few things changed, maybe pushed Gen4 up a little, overestimated on some numbers, etc.. |
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JoTheKhan
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June 15, 2014, 08:30:15 PM |
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Gentlemen, don't get carried away by speculating on the quality of communication by friedcat. As pointed out multiple times, due to the nature of the operation there is little incentive to do extensive IR, other than the necessary accounting and communication through shareholder representatives (board). Instead the focus is on the core business. Friedcat decided to not pass the statements by the board first, but instead releasing them to the public directly. Regarding the often quoted "aggressive dividends": Let me take the blame here, because these are not friedcats words. Also I think there is massive confusion about what "aggressive" actually means. Thus let me remove any ambiguity by posting the text from the respective communication: (BoardMember1) so I underatand that the next payments to the shareholders shoudl happen in May....
(BoardMember2) regarding dividends, do you have a target for retained earnings vs. dividends?
(BoardMember2) if retained earnings is high we need to consider the security mechanisms for the company treasury.
(FC) At most 1:2. Most retained are for short-time spendings (license, wafer/components order). There are no long-time plan of retaining since we won't buy land/bond/etc.
(BoardMember2) Alternatively AM could get "invested" in related businesses
(BoardMember2) If no opportunities exist I agree to an aggressive dividend schedule
As you can see there is no determination of timing other than FC's statement that short-term spendings need to be covered. The "aggressiveness" describes the overall split between retaining and paying out. That said, even board members assumed that dividends would resume in May with a 1:2 split of retained:payout. Finally, I am shocked by the amount of outrage caused by what could be considered an uneducated interpretation of some raw data. The resemblance of this being a deliberate attempt to prey on the lack of insight and patience of new investors is strong. As pointed out previously, the financials are hard to read without context and further explanations. I am committed to provide further information as it becomes available. However, some of the information which is important for company valuation is actually also crucial to pricing sales and thus falls within the realm of confidential information. Thus you cannot expect that this kind of information be released to the public. Anything else would be a level of transparency which is rather uncommon in these industries. Here is the quote by J. where he references the "aggressive dividend" wording. Those are how J. words the dividend schedule. |
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arousedrhino
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June 15, 2014, 08:31:16 PM |
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There is this quote: There are no general updates this time, only the replies to the questions raised and submitted by forum shareholders:
Specific Updates
================
Submitted Questions:
1) When can we expect the financial report that's supposed to coincide with the next round of dividends?
re 1) May 27.
2) With the switch to selling chips, can we expect dividends to be paid out on are "more monthly" basis?
re 2) Most likely yes.
3) What capacity of gen 3 hardware is supposed to be used for franchised mining?
re 3) Depending on the capacity of our franchisees. We personally think 20P could be possible even inside China.
4) What are the current approximate terms of franchised mining, i.e. what does it take to become a franchisee and how are AM and the shareholders profiting from it?
re 4) We have the deployment team to investigate and audit the franchisees. We prefer the original 80/20 division and the 80% are calculated as our mining income. But the cost of the device (without chips) needs to be calculated in so there will be adjustments.
5) Are there any current plans of improving the PR; maybe bi-weekly short summaries or a PR person (board member?)? Are question sets like this an option, maybe once a month?
re 5) This question set can be posed more frequently. For the PR topic, it's still a to-be-solved problem.
6) Is it feasible to create a "gen 3.5" with the consumption drawbacks fixed? With the consumption issue at hand, what is the timeframe for gen 4; are there any adjustments?
re 6) No "gen3.5", but there will be "gen3.1", which is exploiting the production options from the fab the minimize the consumption.
7) After recent crackdowns on BTC exchanges in China, is AM still unaffected and are there strategies to continue operations in case of problems?
re 7) There are no crackdown on BTC exchanges. What the central bank did was to secretly prevent banks from keeping their company bank accounts without placing any public bans. It reflects the fact that the gov has still been pretending that they are neutral to Bitcoin.
General Disclaimer
==================
Please note that some information is subject to change, as this is a very agile business. Please be careful when speculating on company valuation. This information is purely provided as a service to current shareholders and may not be free of errors.
But the way the question was phrased with supposed and FC's vague answer does not commit to Dividends on May 27th just Financial Reports that may coincide with dividends or dividends that may coincide with financial reports. Also this was through a board member so it was not a direct communication from FC. There is also: Gentlemen, don't get carried away by speculating on the quality of communication by friedcat. As pointed out multiple times, due to the nature of the operation there is little incentive to do extensive IR, other than the necessary accounting and communication through shareholder representatives (board). Instead the focus is on the core business. Friedcat decided to not pass the statements by the board first, but instead releasing them to the public directly. Regarding the often quoted "aggressive dividends": Let me take the blame here, because these are not friedcats words. Also I think there is massive confusion about what "aggressive" actually means. Thus let me remove any ambiguity by posting the text from the respective communication: (BoardMember1) so I underatand that the next payments to the shareholders shoudl happen in May....
(BoardMember2) regarding dividends, do you have a target for retained earnings vs. dividends?
(BoardMember2) if retained earnings is high we need to consider the security mechanisms for the company treasury.
(FC) At most 1:2. Most retained are for short-time spendings (license, wafer/components order). There are no long-time plan of retaining since we won't buy land/bond/etc.
(BoardMember2) Alternatively AM could get "invested" in related businesses
(BoardMember2) If no opportunities exist I agree to an aggressive dividend schedule
As you can see there is no determination of timing other than FC's statement that short-term spendings need to be covered. The "aggressiveness" describes the overall split between retaining and paying out. That said, even board members assumed that dividends would resume in May with a 1:2 split of retained:payout. Finally, I am shocked by the amount of outrage caused by what could be considered an uneducated interpretation of some raw data. The resemblance of this being a deliberate attempt to prey on the lack of insight and patience of new investors is strong. As pointed out previously, the financials are hard to read without context and further explanations. I am committed to provide further information as it becomes available. However, some of the information which is important for company valuation is actually also crucial to pricing sales and thus falls within the realm of confidential information. Thus you cannot expect that this kind of information be released to the public. Anything else would be a level of transparency which is rather uncommon in these industries. But that does not show FC committing to May either for the dividends. |
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havelock
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June 15, 2014, 08:35:44 PM |
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Coming soon to Havelock Investments... Participate in The Future of Mining: DataTank Mining; Immersion Cooling technology in cooperation with ASICMiner. The most efficient way to mine. http://youtu.be/oZavKweMrP4Stay tuned, more info in the next 48 hours. |
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minerpumpkin
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June 15, 2014, 08:40:28 PM |
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...The new round of dividends are scheduled to begin as soon as the first large purchases have concluded and should precede or coincide with the publication of the updated financial statements....
1) When can we expect the financial report that's supposed to coincide with the next round of dividends?
re 1) May 27.
Regarding the often quoted "aggressive dividends":
Let me take the blame here, because these are not friedcats words. Also I think there is massive confusion about what "aggressive" actually means. Thus let me remove any ambiguity by posting the text from the respective communication:
First of all, we would like to explain the situation we had in this May. The sales of chips mainly happened before May, while the ramp-up speed of chip sales slowed down mainly because of the lack of flexible whole-device solutions (having features of easy transportation, widely available components, etc) from our customers (device producers). As dedicated projects on improving the design of BE200-based devices we believe we will see much better sales because the room for hash rate growth is still huge and our cost in terms of $/G is highly competitive. ...9) Can you please clarify this sentence from 21st April : "The dividend schedule will be aggressive, as AM will not require large sums of retained capital." < is this still actual, or meanwhile something changed?
It is still actual. The condition in May is not a part of the plan. When we were forecasted permissively about this summer's production power of the fab, we ordered as many wafers as we could to prevent the bottleneck with wafer production. Eat your words. |
I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
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minerpumpkin
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June 15, 2014, 08:42:06 PM |
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Coming soon to Havelock Investments... Participate in The Future of Mining: DataTank Mining; Immersion Cooling technology in cooperation with ASICMiner. The most efficient way to mine. http://youtu.be/oZavKweMrP4Stay tuned, more info in the next 48 hours. Paging Antirack... |
I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
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chairforce1
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June 15, 2014, 08:52:21 PM |
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Coming soon to Havelock Investments... Participate in The Future of Mining: DataTank Mining; Immersion Cooling technology in cooperation with ASICMiner. The most efficient way to mine. http://youtu.be/oZavKweMrP4Stay tuned, more info in the next 48 hours. wat |
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not. #yolo
-Epicuru$
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raskul
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June 15, 2014, 09:04:25 PM |
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Coming soon to Havelock Investments... Participate in The Future of Mining: DataTank Mining; Immersion Cooling technology in cooperation with ASICMiner. The most efficient way to mine. http://youtu.be/oZavKweMrP4Stay tuned, more info in the next 48 hours. wat translation: "We want you to give us more money before we pay you dividends on the last sum of money you gave us." great plan.  Here's what I see... you pay them more BTC to this, and they pay you it back as dividends from the previous crowd funded effort that you already gave them your BTC. here's what you are allowed to give them in funding (before they pay you dividends from the previous round of begging) 1MW immersion cooling container cost over $700K, assuming heavy 3M subsidies Extremely cheap air cooling DC cost under $150K per 1MW it takes a lot more space, so factor in costs for floorspace... And the PUE is 1.3-1.4 but there are indeed lots if places on this planet with cheap land and cheap electricity. enjoy throwing your money at this one. |
tips 1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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hdbuck
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
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June 15, 2014, 09:08:09 PM |
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Coming soon to Havelock Investments... Participate in The Future of Mining: DataTank Mining; Immersion Cooling technology in cooperation with ASICMiner. The most efficient way to mine. http://youtu.be/oZavKweMrP4Stay tuned, more info in the next 48 hours. wat omg omg buy buy buy |
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jimmothy
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June 15, 2014, 09:25:33 PM |
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Coming soon to Havelock Investments... Participate in The Future of Mining: DataTank Mining; Immersion Cooling technology in cooperation with ASICMiner. The most efficient way to mine. http://youtu.be/oZavKweMrP4Stay tuned, more info in the next 48 hours. wat translation: "We want you to give us more money before we pay you dividends on the last sum of money you gave us." great plan. enjoy throwing your money at this one. Translation: I am a spondoolies shill and this is a competing project I highly doubt anyone will take advice from someone who invested in cbcm. |
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RoadStress
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
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June 15, 2014, 09:28:16 PM |
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I highly doubt anyone will take advice from someone who invested in cbcm.
When do you expect to get some dividends jimmothy? |
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jimmothy
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June 15, 2014, 09:30:48 PM |
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I highly doubt anyone will take advice from someone who invested in cbcm.
When do you expect to get some dividends jimmothy? Does it matter? AM has already reached a positive ROI. Are there any other bitcoin investments which were able to turn $2 million in to $20 million within a few months? |
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raskul
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June 15, 2014, 09:31:09 PM |
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I highly doubt anyone will take advice from someone who invested in cbcm.
When do you expect to get some dividends jimmothy? cbcm is a startup, I am proud to help startup businesses. ASICMiner have been doing this HOW LONG? and yet, we are going to see the begging letter on another IPO "fund this with your crowdfunding". So.. AM either A) Have no money or B) Have plenty money which do we suppose it is? A or B? |
tips 1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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jimmothy
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June 15, 2014, 09:35:17 PM |
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cbcm is a startup, I am proud to help startup businesses.
ASICMiner have been doing this HOW LONG? and yet, we are going to see the begging letter on another IPO "fund this with your crowdfunding".
So.. AM either
A) Have no money
or
B) Have plenty money
which do we suppose it is?
A
or B?
Please point me to where you discovered that AM is running this immersion project. CBCM is not only a startup, its a shitty overpriced startup. Anyone who took a look at the revenue forecast would know it's garbage. |
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RoadStress
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
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June 15, 2014, 09:37:36 PM |
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I highly doubt anyone will take advice from someone who invested in cbcm.
When do you expect to get some dividends jimmothy? Does it matter? AM has already reached a positive ROI. Are there any other bitcoin investments which were able to turn $2 million in to $20 million within a few months? For who? For you maybe, but what about the people who just bought AM shares? Also reaching a positive ROI doesn't mean that it's ok for them to not issue dividends anymore and just do whatever they want with the money. |
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