You cant even tell in what country or what hemisphere half the ponzi's that you are promoting are located.
As for havelock, maybe you should try reading what I write, and you'll find that
1) I dont declare anything "100% ponzi free". I am not vouching for any investment, I am merely applying a set of criteria.
2) I do not vouch for havelock and in fact, Im pretty sure they are breaking laws and I have argued that long before you arrived here . However, that shouldnt have an important impact on the shareholders if the issuers are trusted. As illustration, neither AM nor Cryptx started on havelock, both IPO'd on exchanges that have long vanished (long after I predicted they would be closed by authorities, I might add). Its not very likely these shares will end on havelock either, but thats not going to be a bigger problem than the closure of glbse or btcst was.


Yeah? So? I have no idea what you are saying, but I dont care either, I think Ive wasted enough time on you, on ignore you go.

I dont even know what BCT stands for.

I initially read "SR" as silk road. I assume you mean 'senior' .
TBH, I dont give a hoot about forum titles, and these days "senior' tends to mean "posted a ton of nonsense in order to sell out his signature space for more".
But Im sure we can find someone that we both trust enough to hold one key to access half a btc, provided we find a mechanism that works. Anyone have a list of escrow providers?

You missed the button "show next 100". They list 571 currently

Maybe you should try reading the press release instead of making ridiculous claims.
Kraken is going to help the bankruptcy trustee, thats it.

Strongcoin looks interesting for purchases, but Im not sure they are willing to mediate bets. I also dont see how you can use to create a key to give to another independant third party.
https://bitescrow.org/ and a escrow agent is probably a better solution.

Problem is that you're not alone doing just that. If you have more than a token amount of shares and/or you're not among the first to hit the sell button, havelock market depth doesnt look very promising.
If you dont believe in the long term profitability of this share, its extremely risky to be holding IMO. In particular if you factor in the 4+ PH AMhash hasnt sold yet.

Thats assuming one is invested in amhash. Im not

Besides, this bet is just for fun. I may very well lose it, but its not like that would bankrupt me and I doubt roadstress sees it as a hedge for his shares.

The bet itself also has nothing directly to do with amhash. Winning it or losing it doesnt say anything about its long term profitability. For the record: I dont believe amhash will prove profitable in the long run, as its a bet on <4% growth per difficulty adjustment, but I also have no problem admitting I dont know a better offer on the (cloud mining) market right now.

I got asked those same questions when I warned people not to invest in various usagi schemes. People who didnt listen lost  ~100%
Patrick Harnett starfish/kraken ponzi. People who didnt listen lost  ~100%
Pirate. People who didnt listen lost  up to 100%
cryptx  (my supposed 'darling'). People who didnt listen lost  ~80%
Then there was Labcoin, BT Trader, AMT,

Im probably forgetting a few.
Feel free to check my posting history and see how often Ive been wrong.


Nope, but it is the value of my BTC thats constantly being degraded by these scams that strongly associate bitcoin with scams and put pressure to increase regulation and enforcement. So yeah, you are messing with my wallet.

Besides that, Ive been in to bitcoin since quite a long time, and have yet to lose a satoshi to scams, so I did quite well for myself. I can afford to spend some time informing bitcoin newbies. Its a free world you said, so Im allowed am I not?

I accept your bet.
Given the small amount, I would however like to make it useful for something else too, and take the opportunity to figure out multisig transactions so we can set this up in a way that we are not 100% reliant on escrow. 3 keys, one to each of us, third key held by escrow.  Im not sure how to do that in practice.


The question to ask is not how long it could operate; indeed in theory its possible it operates forever, if difficulty climbs fast enough (note thats only possible if the average investor loses money due to that difficulty increase ). The question to ask yourself is at what point does the ponzi operator maximize his profits? Im taking these bets because I think we are getting relatively close to that point.

Im not taking bets against ltcgear. See the link I provided, I do think they are very suspicious, but not enough so that I declare them a ponzi with confidence.

Here are a few I will take bets against:

  
CoIntellect.com      
coinsoncloud.eu      
cloudmining.website
PBmining.com        
cloudminr.io        
grmining.com

Asic vendors may be racing to 0.1J/GH, pbmining already finished at 0.0J/GH.

ok, so the bet I proposed. You're on, 0.1 BTC, I say it will be above 0.

(And if its precisely zero, I suggest we both donate to a charity :p)

Time to turn on my 100PH machine!

Yeah, you can. Certainly with the vast majority of these cloudmining ponzi's.

Everyone here is focused on ROI, and no one seems to care if these companies are legit. The majority of cloudmining websites dont do any mining whatsoever. They pay out old customers via coinmixers from revenue that comes from recruiting new ones. No surprise, to keep the game going they usually emphasize referrals to make you do their dirty PR work.

Now why would you care if these companies are mining or not? All that matters is they pay out, right? Wrong.

If the company (or more aptly: scammer) isnt mining, then its impossible on average for the investors to profit. Early investors might, but only at the expense of later ones.  If there are no miners, then there is nothing to generate those profits. So dont be fooled by low prices or high payouts. Ponzi miners will drop prices as low they need to keep the game going.

And dont think because its been running for 10 months, that it has to be legit either. Unlike traditional ponzi's, mining ponzi's dont risk a bank run. You cant get your money out if you begin worrying, so they can run a fairly long time. Take PBmining, one of the most obvious ponzi schemes. Several posters here are promoting them, and at least some seem to think  they are legit because they have been paying since early this year. Here is the reality: based on their own stats, in the past month they sold ~1.5 (non existent) PH worth of contracts. Good for around ~2200 BTC. During that same month they paid around 1600 BTC in dividends. A net profit of  ~600 BTC or nearly a 1/4 of a million dollar. Just for running a website. SO of course they are still paying out, not because they are legit, but because they are maximizing their profits: they are still getting far more revenue from new victims than they are paying out.

Of course that cant last. At some point the new sales will slow while the owed dividends keep going up. Once the latter becomes bigger than the former, guess what the anonymous operator will do? Yep,  the same thing pirate, bitcoin-trader and countless other (mining) ponzi's before did. They go *POOF*



Be smart. Think before you invest. Dont trust *anyone* with a referral link in his signature. Let this be a guide:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860400.0

BTW, to all the referral link whores that are about to say Im full of it, that I have no proof etc,  Im taking bets. I will double your ponzi revenue through escrow if Im wrong. I will win the principal if Im right and within say 12 months, said ponzi collapsed.

Because you'd have some extra money that you might decide to spend on drugs and bad hookers?

Not sure I follow. You dont want to bet on the upcoming difficulty change, but you do want to bet on what exactly?

Maintenance fees are not expressed in %. They are expressed in $ (per GH per month). And yeah, they can exceed your mining revenue (in BTC), possibly just briefly if you are unlucky or permanently if you picked a contract with high maintenance fees and/or BTC price goes down and/or difficulty shoots up. Cex.io should on average still net a positive yield, but no where near enough to warrant the current price.

No shit. Just another copy/paste run of the mill mining ponzi. Checked out what I could find and rated it a solid 7. Small bonus points for not using whoisguard, but with no contact info on the site and no way to verify the domain registration data, I stick with 7.

Go for it sunny1!

Asks  the guy who got suckered by bitcoin trader and esoteric investments despite me (and countless others) pointing out the obvious.

Not a very fast learner are you?