Both. He fears being recognized personally and that his wallet is found.

With the above scenario the wallet type would be only found when it is an online wallet with shared wallet. If they can find out the wallet they could ask the persons behind to give them the user details. Though that is not even needed when making errors with receiving and sending bitcoins.

Then I tell you how it's possible.

You have a wallet on your pc, normal standard wallet. You receive a payment for a legal service on one address, another payment for a loan to another address. Then a payment you receive a payment from an illegal drug selling website. After that you send out a payment, doesn't matter to which address. The payment is that high that it needs bitcoins from all three addresses. Well, you might have posted the address to receive the coins to the legal service, maybe your real name is even connected to it. Though because you sent the transaction, everyone now knows that you received payments for the loan and from the illegal drug selling website. Now it's proven that you either use drugs or sell drugs. You can be tracked down because of the other addresses.

It's even worse when using change addresses because you lose the oversight about the addresses you use. You might be fully visible then.

Serge V.


Hm. So the seller risk 1x and buyer 2x while the seller has the goods. Though the seller only sends the goods after the escrow address was funded. Additionally, who has to send first to the escrow address?

When the buyer has to send first 2x then the seller is in favor risking nothing. If the seller sends 1x first then he would be in risk of losing 1x. So a scam can happen by both sides. And using a new account will ensure that a scam accusation thread is useless.

Even when both sent. Then the seller risked only 1x and the buyer 2x. At this point the buyer is more at risk. The seller can extort for more than his 1x.

Well, when I feel into the situation then this surely is nothing you can use for every trade. One always had to keep the value of the other account in mind. Even when it is higher than the possible loss, he might have done it to multiple persons at the same time and thus his account was paid maybe multiple times with the scam already.

So far you would be astonished about the amount of escrow requests that are stopped because an escrow is involved or even the mentioning stops many deals. Obvious scams. So when I see all the traders that request me then there is a high amount of very likely scammers. Imagining having to put my trust in them is something I would not do honestly. I would either risk 2x as the buyer or 1x as the seller. Honestly, when I see the percentage of scam attempts then I would not feel safe to use this scheme. I would rather trust a third party. Well, if I would want more safety then I might chose a 2 of 3 multisig escrow. So the escrow could release the coins. I see the chance to get an established escrow who only now started to scam way lower than the percentage of scam attempts Iam confronted with as escrow.

Right... the funny thing is, the moment I opened the next thread after I posted here, I found another post of that user. And guess what how his post sounded.

I placed a warning to him but judging form his posting habit I'm sure it won't be read.

Ok, but why should the buyer take the risk to lose twice the amount of coins, not receiving goods AND being extorted by the seller afterwards? As buyer I would not take that risk since we would not at the same risk levels then.

I now read DannyHamilton mentioned the seller has to deposit the price of the item to the escrow address too? So seller sends amount x and buyer amount 2x?

You say your reputation is tarnished... well that doesn't matter for new accounts. And many trades happen with fresh accounts to stay anonymous.


Well, the normal traders would always find a less risky option than trading with that plan. Which I think is the general problem with your plan. It's risky for both sides. No one observing and no one to fear by the scammer. Even reputated members would be at risk. Scams in that might happen a couple of times and if the scammer is a good actor, or prepared himself, then there are chances the forum believes the scammer and the reputation is gone.

You would be astonished how many muslims suddenly feel free to do what they want when they don't have to fear other radicals treat them with stoneage punishment.

And really... young men coming from muslim countries as refugees only made a scandal in germany 3 months ago. A group of thousands gathered and stole from woman, touched them nastily and even raped some. Over hundred cases on this night in that one city and many hundred more in other cities too on that night.

Well, that happens when women have to be treated with religious rules like from the countries they are from. And surely only a fraction of the women are happy about their treatment in such society.

With that copied credit card there is no problem. The credit card company will refund him. If your bitcoins vanish no refund will happen at all.

bitcoin-hunter



You really should stop spamming like that. Another meaningless and offtopic post of you. You should be aware that even if your campaign manager would not ban, the moderators might at one point.

---

BitHodler


It's the urge to see a rising bitcoin price and to want to take part on it... at the end, mostly, when you jump on a spike... you buy at the top... that's how successfull traders earn their money... from traders like that.

bitcoin-hunter


You really didn't bother to read the first post in the thread, right? Sounds like you only have read the topic and wrote something in here fast.

I wish I would be as cool headed all the time myself.

Well, though at the current situation I'm not sure what to think. I sat an alarm just in case it goes into the wrong direction. I think it might go up to $450 but can crash pretty far down too.

Maybe the best thing to do in an uncertain situation would be to go out of all positions until a direction establishes?

As long as they use a shared wallet it should be possible. I'm not sure if coinbase does actually.

With a shared wallet you have a deposit address but when you send coins they will come from addresses that are unknown to you. And because different addresses are merged in these transactions it can be assumed that all addresses and the connections from those addresses belong to one wallet.

If you are a miner then surely that event is something not funny. Though halving has to happen to lower reward and weed out the amount of miners mining. The network is way too oversecured which results in each transaction eating an enourmous amount of power. Which in a result means bitcoin is far from being a green tech at the moment.

After the halving bitcoin will still be safe and there will always be miners who mine on the edge of profitability, most even under profitability.

Serge V.



I thought your scenario contains an escrow. Which would make it a 2 of 3 multisig. Though 2 of 2 holds the risk of getting extortet.


I don't know what you mean. It surely won't help if someone tells the buyer that he has a small brain. He would have your coins hostage. And why can he lose twice more coins than the seller? He received his goods already from the seller but he decided to get half of his coins in escrow back. Nothing the seller can do except giving in when the buyer created the deal with a newbie account. He would not care about red trust on that account.

---

Ralobot.com


Yes you are right. I try to hold both items when it is possible. Though that is not possible with some accounts because they might get banned because of different ip logins and password changes and such.

And for physical goods it is hard because additional shipping costs, time delay and such. So the trading partners would decide to lower cost and time. Though maybe I should stress the risk more in these cases.

Well and receiving digital money, you are right there too, fiat and so on is something an escrow can not receive because of risks of receiving carded or phished amounts.

Though when I already started to point out risks and claim that I can't back them, I might do it correctly on all trades in the future. Not only certain types.

@all


What do you guys think where the bitcoin price will go to now? It seems to get less and less volatile and I think at the end it will spike or crash. And the larger timeframes look like a downtrend all. Selling time? Or can one hope on speculations regarding block halving?

---

angaper



On which timeframe do you trade? And on 1Broker? Well, I guess trading futures on okcoin could be seen as forex trading too.

Besides that I would want to know, when you found a resistance area, do you place your buy at the lower end or the upper end?

---

richardsNY



That is no trading method. It's like you getting asked "how do you clean your car?" and you answer "I clean it and then it is clean".

You know what I mean?

Serge, it's a little bit funny that you quoted a sentence that he did not wrote against third party escrows but against multisignature escrowing. Though that is the solution you come up with.


Yes, an escrow is a point of failure but the same is true for your scenario. You only need one of these scammy escrows or a hacked escrow account and you already have zero security from that 2of3 multisig that you described. The scammer would initiate a trade with an altaccount, deal as the escrow and screw the other trading partner because the scammer already holds 2 of the keys to release the coins to himself.

I did not have seen yet a fully safe scenario there too. You could involve more than one escrows though that would mean more time it takes, more work and maybe higher fees. For more security though.

Still an escrow is needed for negotiating while problems. With 2 of 2 you run into the risk that one of your trading partners claim you did send something wrong or that he threatens you to not release the coins until you agree to pay half of the price back.

It's often suggested but it is only a partly solution for some problems and many remain unsolved or other attack vectors are there.

You surely won't fine because it would become extremely high priced. Those addresses have to be mined. The longer, so the more sure someone can be that it really belongs to coinbase, the more expensive.

Though I can imagine that coinbase implements a single address per user that he should use to post in forums or so. That way they could advertise for free. I wonder if it would be worth it.

Though if someone wants then he can use an online tool to find out which addresses belong to the same wallet. If you know one of these addresses belongs to coinbase then you know the rest has to be too.

Well, this is not my project. I surely would have not handled the money of others this way. I would have given support and would have asked if important decisions are to be made. I'm on here only in the unhealthy position of the one trying to move the issuer to do things. Well, he is very slow. Of 7 days a week we can be lucky when he moves one at least. 

Anyway, shapeshift doesn't sound like a very good solution. It would eat fees to turn it into one direction and into the other direction. The issuer wants to pay in bitcoin. He would have to exchange bitcoins, pay fee, lose the orderbook spread and so on. And the shareholders would have to do the same again... It would be costly.

At least counterparty has no such problems with dividends. Hopefully things get implemented into counterwallet that will make it possible to build a correct btc orderbook.

Regarding NXT, I checked it out carefully... and others did too. Only thing is that it has quite a learning curve. For example making an address secure and and and. Though counterwallet is as intuitive as it can be. I like that really and it was refreshing after having to deal with nxt.

Well, I guess both platforms are still in development and good things can be awaited in the future from both.

There are examples of bitcoiners that love to show off with their bitcoin riches. Driving lambos with bitcoin logos and similar things... well, that guy probably has way more bitcoins than only 1,000 of them.

Well, I found out now too that it is hard to trade on counterparty, at least against bitcoins. You need to use special wallets though that means other traders need too. So a real orderbook will not come into existence that way. Though one can sell or buy for xcp, but then you would need to watch a additional price.

I know centralized exchanges work but surely I would not want to hold shares worth a lot on such exchange. The lessons teached on that topic are way too explicit.

NXT was tried... but there is the problem that you can trade them for btc but paying bitcoins out as divs is practically not possible. At the end the issuer would have to buy nxt which is not suitable.

Well, guess for now at counterparty I have to miss the orderbook and trade shares directly.

You can not reverse a bank wire that you sent yourself and authorized it yourself. It was then in your responsibility to check if the recipient was correct and such things.

Of course he might try to claim an unauthorized transaction though I wonder if it would go through, if cops could get involved and if he would have other troubles with his bank account then.