We must at least admit that Bitcoin is very young, and therefore any investments in are highly speculative.
Gold we know must go up, as it has proven to adhere to the fundamentals of money for thousands of years. With the amount of fiat currency inflation occurring around the world, gold will behave in a very predictable way. It has a track record that cannot be ignored.
That's not to say that the Bitcoin will behave differently, but it is certainly more prone to unknown risk - a virus, a hacker, manipulation (even a poor billionaire could do this right now), etc.
Any manipulation a billionaire or a millionaire could do would drive the price up. Pump and dump and getting rich doing so does not work by only suggesting a bubble by buying some bitcoins. You would have to also announce some services, get some names convinced the next big thing is around the corner etc. Is Bitcoin really a risk? Who should destroy it? Governments still have a window of opportunity that is not closing for some months if not years to come but if govs really wanted to, why wait? The longer they wait the more businesses will get mad at them. Taking away our 300M$ toy is one thing. Taking away a 300G$ toy later is a different league although the Fed is printing this amount every 6 months. Virus? Hacker? These are known issues that are a constant in the IT business. It's the same old arms race and the more we care about other people's wallets being secure the smaller the rewards will be for hackers and less attractive the bitcoin will be for them. It seems that you think none of these things are real risks to Bitcoin, at any magnitude. Does this mean you are 100% invested in them? No diversification? No hedging of risks? 100% is a problem cause I need to have fiat for 2 weeks spendings but other than that I was at that point, yes. Well, actually I was down with fiat to some $100 at some point but I consider that an accident cause I failed to sell some bitcoins in time.
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We must at least admit that Bitcoin is very young, and therefore any investments in are highly speculative.
Gold we know must go up, as it has proven to adhere to the fundamentals of money for thousands of years. With the amount of fiat currency inflation occurring around the world, gold will behave in a very predictable way. It has a track record that cannot be ignored.
That's not to say that the Bitcoin will behave differently, but it is certainly more prone to unknown risk - a virus, a hacker, manipulation (even a poor billionaire could do this right now), etc.
Any manipulation a billionaire or a millionaire could do would drive the price up. Pump and dump and getting rich doing so does not work by only suggesting a bubble by buying some bitcoins. You would have to also announce some services, get some names convinced the next big thing is around the corner etc. Is Bitcoin really a risk? Who should destroy it? Governments still have a window of opportunity that is not closing for some months if not years to come but if govs really wanted to, why wait? The longer they wait the more businesses will get mad at them. Taking away our 300M$ toy is one thing. Taking away a 300G$ toy later is a different league although the Fed is printing this amount every 6 months. Virus? Hacker? These are known issues that are a constant in the IT business. It's the same old arms race and the more we care about other people's wallets being secure the smaller the rewards will be for hackers and less attractive the bitcoin will be for them.
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Even though AaronBarr (HBGarry) has 1KPTdMb6p7H3YCwsyFqrEmKGmsHqe1Q3jg listed as his donation address I'm pretty sure he doesn't control it. It's the first destination of the stolen bitcoins from the allinvain theft https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=16457.0Aaron Barr was claiming on twitter than Lulzsec were responsible (very unlikely in my opinion, just the thief sending coins to the Lulzsec public address to muddy the waters) - https://twitter.com/aaronbarr/status/81030436058439681Wonder if someone hacked his bitcointalk forum account and put that address as his donation address for a joke or if he did it himself as a joke. Nice finding These donation addresses are a joke, aren't they? If people like what I'm writing, nobody would tip me, right? I mean I could pick some top 100 address and not regret missing out on all the donations flowing in, right? I guess I will go with this one: 1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa.
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How would a switch to bitcoin look like?
Version 1 (unlikely): The government hoards a million Bitcoins and then publicly announces to give 0.01 micro BTC (or so) for every IRR which would look like a big scam: Currently: 20,000IRR = 1USD = 0.05BTC 1IRR = 2.5uBTC but they also announce to sell their oil for bitcoin which would get the exchange rate to x250 instantly. Other powers (USA) would bomb Iran back to the stone age because they find clear evidence of WMD. Bitcoin wins.
Version 2 (likely): Under the radar remittance payments provide an increasing in-flow of bitcoins and a local market like localbitcoins evolves to arbitrate between those needing store of value and those needing legal tender.
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When I see someone rocking a big chain made of Bitcoins then I will say gold is pointless.
I would say the bitcoin blockchain pretty much rocks, doesn't it? Yeah, no doubt. The blockchain is cool, but I'm gonna need the block-watch to go with it. block-watch
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We have discussed this issue before and yes, sure, it is an issue. If there are 0Ƀ in Iran, you will not bootstrap a 10Ƀ economy there but if people can use bitcoins in Iran, they will find ways to get them in.
There are many Iranians that receive support from their families abroad and bitcoin is the cheapest way not only to pay you while in Iran but also to send value to somebody in Iran from the US for example.
It's a hen-egg problem. Right now very few people see value in Bitcoin in Iran, so they ask their relatives to send USD via Dubai or whatever at a 40% loss. If they find out they can sell bitcoins in Iran for 10% commission, they will change their mind, so please offer stuff to Iranians (if you know you can deliver) and let people know. Money will find it's way.
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According to the data I have 1 bitcoin. That's about right.
Really? I assumed you had at least some Satoshi Dice shares but if you say so, 100% are owned by anonymous investors
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When I see someone rocking a big chain made of Bitcoins then I will say gold is pointless.
I would say the bitcoin blockchain pretty much rocks, doesn't it?
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Gold has history, is limited by demand and supply in the market, and can be used in person to person exchange without digital technology.
… if you are into tungsten. @OP: I agree the slogan of the sticker is a bit weird. Too bad. Cool idea to get promotional material distributed. Too bad it doesn't reach the right people.
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I doubt that once enough people trade bitcoins, you will still be able to charge 3+3 %. I wanted to sell but had time, so I copied the others that sold at +5% and waited. Nobody showed up. Then it got urgent and I completely removed the fee, I actually paid 5% for one trade but now people cue up for small trades and I send them on when it exceeds my needs. Charging 0% has the advantage that people come close to you and won't argue if you round up on the trade. Long term this is the margin for every-day trades. If you need more liquidity, you will still pay a fee.
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The problem I see with localbitcoins... at least for me... is that profits are so small. For instance.. say I sell for $21 when the price is 20. That's only a dollar profit per bitcoin. I've been exchanging bitcoins locally for a 6% spread: selling for 3% over Mt.Gox and buying for 3% under. You're right, there's not much money to be made when the value of gas and time and the exchange rate volatility risk is factored in, but I'm excited to be a part of monetary revolution, and I get to meet a lot of interesting people. Besides, I'm building trust at this point, and once the volume gets high enough, the profits will be there. You can also look at it like you would running an I2P router: you aren't making any money off the other people using your bandwidth, but you are improving your own anonymity in the process. The person to person trade is super important. My 5 last trades had 2 with total newbies that both had no wallet ready at the time we met. #1 was interested and wanted my advise on which wallet to use. #2 had no clue about the concept of wallets at all. He even suggested he gives me the 100€ now and I send him the money later when he figured it out. Hope he hasn't lost the MyWallet that we set him up on his iPhone. Basically if you have a high density of regular bitcoin users, an ATM makes sense but currently the person to person trade still is very much about education and exchange of ideas.
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(Please don't run away with this one ) Rassah will not run with it. He's more famous for giving it to charitable organizations
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"Geez I'm dense"? DobZombie denying responsibility a-priory? Witch hunt anybody? DobZombie for SCAMMER-tag?
Are you serious. A little bit, yes Hey, DobZombie, if I had the feeling you would suicide in shame now, I would apologize but I don't, so yes, I really do consider it possible that you are in some connection to Jakers. I would have to check if we had some penalty for the last one to hold the coin but I'm writing this more in a popcorn mood than in anger over some scammers. Marking all as scammers that don't repair the damage would be a tougher rule that we did not decide on. At least not in the OP and that's what counts. Maybe we should start over with 10Ƀ, with the above rule that all get marked scammers that don't repair the damage done by subsequent scammers. This might get escrows into play.
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For the record, I recived 2.07811815 and passed on 2.08 Feel free to add such information for each transaction or just for yours. For the record: The list of transactions is by no means consistent or complete. It was just all the stuff me and others felt worthy to be mentioned.
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I solo-mined a block in June 2011 and didn't move it until last week when I moved it to a different wallet. Shitty guess I would say. <tin-foil-hat>The fed mined their millions not to crash the market further when a bubble bursts but to prepare for a post-dollar age.</tin-foil-hat> Actually I never lost faith in Bitcoin going far up and beyond of its history record, so low rates were times for buying, not selling. Any equally bullish person would just not touch their old coins.
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Hi I have no clue about trading but I wonder if there is some drag and drop interface to place and change orders that would talk to the MtGox API. I imagine an upper part just like mtgoxlive and below two bars with my $ and Ƀ balances. Dragging within these bars would "grab" the corresponding percentage of my respective balance and allow me to drop it on the market depth above. I would see pins with each of my orders in the market depth so I can drag them back down to my wallet or to some other $ value in the market depth. I could also imagine this as a paid feature of btccharts.com. Here is a mock-up: Notice how the %-values are 0% in the middle and 100% on the outer edge. Reason is that I want this interface to work without having to click again for confirmation and to achieve that, short mouse movements that are more likely to be accidental, should have little chance of ending in a catastrophe. If I drag all my Ƀ and drop them too soon, it's unlikely somebody will snatch them. 2% dropped too soon and being snatched is less dramatic.
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We shouldn't have been sending $80 to people with accounts less than one month old
We? You could argue that sending is in the responsibility of the person sending as else I could always send to my sock puppet even if the others doubt this to be a good idea. I'm pretty sure I brought up this scenario in this thread. Also we had discussed accounts younger than that game. Geez I'm DENSEStatus: 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 7 nodes Date: 15/01/2013 21:05 To: 1K4pjMGTntWFvsaTbMhq5BJ7DVSbrpm86G Debit: -3.6695 BTC Net amount: -3.6695 BTC Transaction ID: 585e232888d9ea5f31460ce2bdbeba5458365ed6d9ef4c9b86171706f890b33a Done "Geez I'm dense"? DobZombie denying responsibility a-priory? Witch hunt anybody? DobZombie for SCAMMER-tag? To be honest I expected the experiment to "fail" and just wondered how long the scammers would wait. I would suggest to keep the witch hunt out of this thread and draw our conclusions. For me the experiment was a success and would be interested in: How long did it take (min/max/avg/median/sum) from player joining to him getting the coin. How much did we pay in fees (min/max/avg/median/sum). How many people actually were labeled scammers later (currently at least 4! unfortunately scammers also delete their posts so I can't check on all of the list) And here is the updated list: ID NICK RECEIVED BY POST_ID_AND_COMMENTS 1 Garr255 189JHV6KPzvnPmjYCGPbvMMmZUWppere7h #2 2 the joint 17EVRSvdPJGhk7uKHCpY9ghnWnx7j3pPAs #3 3 sadpandatech 13YmfB6TeLzyCdnwsVZ5MdYVCLnfm5eNGF #4 4 nimda 1KiZGitw2zEr4uPzZsT7dh7F6e5yoKGvE7 #5 5 Al the Alpaca 1EWRJ5BeibZxMguujPLzqM8WWiHpFJtLLx #6 6 pirateat40 1CR5BadHQt8wd4t98mE4rw9hUfSGQ4ZGDg #19 <- SCAMMER 7 rjk 17qypELtTKqr716m937wLWbapnFG6i4fyZ #20 8 NothinG 1BjMLLGrwYk3hrcnSqEUEeGchkx9tiykfY #21 9 PatrickHarnett 1KwECAhJGr8BPGgn6mezf5Z3jT7vG1HaAZ #27 <- SCAMMER 10 pekv2 12NcNYb2oEh6ANo95AakEjPqQdgbcxh4m9 #32 11 unclemantis 12kM9BocNb5zSG7RMKp9wPxopK5NpayrMZ #33 12 mb300sd 1HVmv5EtQZtcsFfXe6Crz972BrB1MwsNCM #38 13 rudrigorc2 1MSPwixhqiwMLXxw3WXtNjg2nst6qVWhCX #43 14 Brunic 16Hz2xA4NmAp4CU3Mr9aJy8H9D5XqXupHG #48 15 fatigue 1Fj4QZbavJeKfagjDqUPFqQ4iJ4bHqFAMG #51 16 Phraust 15UJrPbxd6ULPJaxASUoWUp6xc473T7mww #87 17 adamstgBit 15nutdfqcS38hXdZoL7LNz5wBt8Aq4wCUT #88 18 bluefirecorp 1PsQ8qFp6ZY94gXvFLP4cqcmoLQSDCqLJc #89 19 Drakahn 1C1UMHsdPxgsWGWBhdaTC47kibJjFgWnhb #90 20 Gladamas 1FVySmZNZ6LUvz1mKkt9zgRWjBzvkM4Roh #91 21 phantitox 1GtGFJskG47Q6Q1NFsfMLWfNV9ivabbyab #92 22 John (johnthedong) 1Cm2ymVqiHA42jv31rtyze684oWTDkreza #97 instawallet addy, DON't REUSE 23 Keefe 1BZy1xxwcxQyRZErcYUFke72TSU7cV5Ptf #106 24 Otoh 1G5apmPvo2iTtmkNWAHTCET7Y842Ufijs8 #109 25 [Tycho] 1VayNert3x1KzbpzMGt2qdqrAThiRovi8 #74 26 Dalkore 12SSYCcvaHadm8Myxb3mUTzyv96VNhyzeZ #66 27 payb.tc 14no5MUE4ur2gyyEE3BHpHhV82gKm8NLbH #132 28 damnek 17xbiU6EWdaf74rmwxPv9AQZc1MeKMWh5n #114 29 Tril 1Xgeo7EQgrk22paxmKVrhNVSmauczL6EE #116 30 Scott J 18UVSvCAb6QGjPSdiXxveeu56ujmu3kTt4 #117 31 honest bob 14x3n2ntSAGN4gGvGoLhi6NbUuuoWwvfdL #139 32 giszmo 1KLYFWyv5aeci2PwJQs9aTRN1JRzDDL96o #142 33 arklan 1F4j4Lha8BjL4wxwFVbGaQwMJ4Kd1brfXb #144 34 dooglus 1BooBz2AEwUd6JepB7NhNsnAe58Q6obpcu #157 35 riX 155gBnpiBQcpnP6coTX6V7znSK3G73uNjK #158 36 RyNinDaCleM 1Bgi9fX1TD9cnuzBvWGLfm7D7sNVEq96UU #173 37 hongus 1APyqdvGMvjfEMPKCo3oHSJ4CkJuXhTCy1 #238 38 flatfly 1337sfeChyyzZLzdHLewXzcaAaJSNTM893 #243 39 URSAY 1MzjNVW8z5SuMsGPgQfWZoyKaxsc1VkLXh #248 40 nckrazze 111mamKazi1ofZ854rKTcAxhTVuGDPhhL #257 <- SCAMMER 41 TYDIRocks 1PowhrA8kxnn9UBj2ESg7GQzkwTpcg44zm #272 42 Gyrsur 1FSfmWAMUsuBzUTrXgKaTE9TsSjJw1knvw #274 43 OneEyed 1MJS3FuUrWmyfvvRnm5gUYvpuFkYDzxCP4 #277 44 Namworld 14x36ktcNuf3CNrkVH1XY7vXwGHb9mCZwF #281 45 augustocroppo 161gEQewAVp6CFnoY5198vHchrbWLQytG7 #284 46 CornedBeefHash 1FvXoLCFmmRTAHJv5xMZLoMoeKBJHMCLnY #291 47 theboss 1EQfkKVZndiesJcwThRe5AAq15dZ56mZku #293 48 Maidak 14bsB5cugXFYaVZWsuoEYABd9gvkowv42a #296 49 scintill 1jCU7tevhLNaY3nDL4tinNu8NuSzDtwKh #299 50 chrisrico 1Mn7mjk69WJY85Ukwd4sFSRMALokoni13L #301 51 jasinlee 1AvxDf5WPWvrUgLsPLpb6a8mYsPXNYxNMr #304 +.01BTC 52 fabrizziop 1MFfixQTJJ4v2PUKrz5kotQq1dPSJFUA71 #311 +.0001BTC 53 sethsethseth 1K42vUtvmg8hW6M6UjubCFhmJLv4jLby4C #314 54 Spenzert 19nPdToTaAh2jVUuotaiDhPBxcPLuLEuXD #319 signed his message, +.0001BTC 53 sethsethseth 1K42vUtvmg8hW6M6UjubCFhmJLv4jLby4C #322 <- keeping it in place of #54 55 Fjordbit 1KZnfWkXXLdEjvQKYALbEsjbeWpvSG9NWB #328 +.0001BTC 56 danieldaniel 17QAPwXnqXX771j2CB7y2ahuoX76X4aipv #340 57 caffeinewriter 13373CuvtwQGgDWYv28pm3mTxy2bGS5U4D #342 58 stan.distortion 13TasmL5GRp27JfbuTpGBAx1iDYyygb4gP #356 59 MKEGuy 12Zu56v2CENZREzQnaEia37CeBEEDG96fK #358 60 ianbakewell 1Q1k2uTUZ1ZSSufH2w9xnCnPPzC1QmreEa #371 61 squall1066 1ES9YKx3RHSsFLsGAKJva4cG8W7xG4kHok #373 "Rounded up to 2.27BTC" 62 Gavin Andresen 12r6DPnX5TNK4PhnTiShmuK6o4jE8Yh28C #377 "rounded up to 3.11 BTC (because eleven is my favorite number)" 63 dreamwatcher 1JYMASNzjSPhQZi6zjpb2duBLo3wXPSWLj #380 "Upped it to 3.5 BTC" 64 lightlord 13cjE1VDsiF5SjFEt5kg2izYmcvUmpwTi5 #381 65 kwoody 1CvU9yqNQHKLHVrJnwgVQcoUJ9GfUzS8Ad #382 "Sent 3.66666420 to Carlos L." 66 Carlos L. 18zSd8Ra4bioqQAfSVMqr8J6MtaY58xA31 #388 67 x0Jakeyboy0x 1JvRuTLAo3hMbEqEDZ5V6V9YbvhjbfhkuX #391 68 novusordo 1novusxwhCh11QyXp1Jj3e6hdhk6qZZ3E #406 69 BTCGOLD 18VumBd2W89yYGXMQCF9z8SZj7bG93EGqC #409 71 CurbsideProphet 1GKv7EnAABx9wk1CnE6Xqa2rATm17JHtQS #411 "Received 3.67BTC" 72 nethead 1NqcmfCCz1bsFjJaYxhnkbcfaZS7C9a5z2 #414 "3.6695 recieved" 73 DobZombie 1Zombi5KpntBBFfm9FngsYhsiR4QAmfce #418 "Geez I'm dense" 74 Jakers 14vCb4rr1SdWFLDFgW4NMUbodPYqcCoRm2 #401 <-- currently has coins <- SCAMMER ########## ########## ########## ########## ########## ########## ########## ####------ ---------- ----------
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Starting at 7:30 Bitcoin is presented featuring Room77 (Jörg Platzer: "The same banks that scam people in poorer countries with high fees on every transaction make their food 3 times more expensive by speculating with their food" (quote is not word by word)), Bitcoin Conference London, Birgitta Jónsdóttir, Mike Hearn ("also Google is interested in the online currency" … good one ), illegal business, money laundering, Super positive Bitcoin feature with the conclusion: "Shift says: Not yet the big hit." http://www.dw.de/programm/shift/s-30411-9800
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This is so great placement! Couldn't be better. Too bad "Bitcoin is pre-Netscape" with an """info""" graphic underlining how it is pre-anything that anybody could possibly want to have a second look at.
Sorry I don't see how Bitcoin is pre-Netscape to start with. I would get Bitcoins sent to anybody with a smartphone in his hands within less than a minute (given he trusts me). No need to fucking confuse people with such a shitty understatement/misinformation. "Pre-Netscape" being a Tony-the-Bitcoin-advocate-quote makes it even worse.
@Tony: Please tell me they got you out of context with that quote or they had to present bitcoin as a joke to get a chance to feature it at all. Else 7 pages of Bitcoin really is great. Do you know how many flights*seats this will be on board?
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