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1081  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and gold hoarders on: February 05, 2013, 09:09:14 AM
We must at least admit that Bitcoin is very young, and therefore any investments in are highly speculative.

Gold we know must go up, as it has proven to adhere to the fundamentals of money for thousands of years. With the amount of fiat currency inflation occurring around the world, gold will behave in a very predictable way. It has a track record that cannot be ignored.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin will behave differently, but it is certainly more prone to unknown risk - a virus, a hacker, manipulation (even a poor billionaire could do this right now), etc.

Any manipulation a billionaire or a millionaire could do would drive the price up. Pump and dump and getting rich doing so does not work by only suggesting a bubble by buying some bitcoins. You would have to also announce some services, get some names convinced the next big thing is around the corner etc.

Is Bitcoin really a risk? Who should destroy it? Governments still have a window of opportunity that is not closing for some months if not years to come but if govs really wanted to, why wait? The longer they wait the more businesses will get mad at them. Taking away our 300M$ toy is one thing. Taking away a 300G$ toy later is a different league although the Fed is printing this amount every 6 months.

Virus? Hacker? These are known issues that are a constant in the IT business. It's the same old arms race and the more we care about other people's wallets being secure the smaller the rewards will be for hackers and less attractive the bitcoin will be for them.

It seems that you think none of these things are real risks to Bitcoin, at any magnitude.

Does this mean you are 100% invested in them? No diversification? No hedging of risks?

100% is a problem cause I need to have fiat for 2 weeks spendings but other than that I was at that point, yes. Well, actually I was down with fiat to some $100 at some point but I consider that an accident cause I failed to sell some bitcoins in time.
1082  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and gold hoarders on: February 04, 2013, 11:49:05 PM
We must at least admit that Bitcoin is very young, and therefore any investments in are highly speculative.

Gold we know must go up, as it has proven to adhere to the fundamentals of money for thousands of years. With the amount of fiat currency inflation occurring around the world, gold will behave in a very predictable way. It has a track record that cannot be ignored.

That's not to say that the Bitcoin will behave differently, but it is certainly more prone to unknown risk - a virus, a hacker, manipulation (even a poor billionaire could do this right now), etc.

Any manipulation a billionaire or a millionaire could do would drive the price up. Pump and dump and getting rich doing so does not work by only suggesting a bubble by buying some bitcoins. You would have to also announce some services, get some names convinced the next big thing is around the corner etc.

Is Bitcoin really a risk? Who should destroy it? Governments still have a window of opportunity that is not closing for some months if not years to come but if govs really wanted to, why wait? The longer they wait the more businesses will get mad at them. Taking away our 300M$ toy is one thing. Taking away a 300G$ toy later is a different league although the Fed is printing this amount every 6 months.

Virus? Hacker? These are known issues that are a constant in the IT business. It's the same old arms race and the more we care about other people's wallets being secure the smaller the rewards will be for hackers and less attractive the bitcoin will be for them.
1083  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 10/90 - how rich/poor are the forum users on: February 04, 2013, 10:54:06 PM
Even though AaronBarr   (HBGarry) has 1KPTdMb6p7H3YCwsyFqrEmKGmsHqe1Q3jg listed as his donation address I'm pretty sure he doesn't control it.
It's the first destination of the stolen bitcoins from the allinvain theft https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=16457.0

Aaron Barr was claiming on twitter than Lulzsec were responsible (very unlikely in my opinion, just the thief sending coins to the Lulzsec public address to muddy the waters) - https://twitter.com/aaronbarr/status/81030436058439681

Wonder if someone hacked his bitcointalk forum account and put that address as his donation address for a joke or if he did it himself as a joke.

Nice finding Smiley

These donation addresses are a joke, aren't they? If people like what I'm writing, nobody would tip me, right? I mean I could pick some top 100 address and not regret missing out on all the donations flowing in, right? I guess I will go with this one: 1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa.
1084  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How to tell Iran customers to get Bitcoin to pay the bill? on: February 04, 2013, 07:31:49 PM
How would a switch to bitcoin look like?

Version 1 (unlikely): The government hoards a million Bitcoins and then publicly announces to give 0.01 micro BTC (or so) for every IRR which would look like a big scam:
Currently:
20,000IRR = 1USD = 0.05BTC
1IRR = 2.5uBTC
but they also announce to sell their oil for bitcoin which would get the exchange rate to x250 instantly.
Other powers (USA) would bomb Iran back to the stone age because they find clear evidence of WMD.
Bitcoin wins.

Version 2 (likely): Under the radar remittance payments provide an increasing in-flow of bitcoins and a local market like localbitcoins evolves to arbitrate between those needing store of value and those needing legal tender.
1085  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and gold hoarders on: February 04, 2013, 03:52:02 PM
When I see someone rocking a big chain made of Bitcoins then I will  say gold is pointless.

I would say the bitcoin blockchain pretty much rocks, doesn't it?

Yeah, no doubt. The blockchain is cool, but I'm gonna need the block-watch to go with it.

block-watch
1086  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How to tell Iran customers to get Bitcoin to pay the bill? on: February 04, 2013, 02:34:19 PM
We have discussed this issue before and yes, sure, it is an issue. If there are 0Ƀ in Iran, you will not bootstrap a 10Ƀ economy there but if people can use bitcoins in Iran, they will find ways to get them in.

There are many Iranians that receive support from their families abroad and bitcoin is the cheapest way not only to pay you while in Iran but also to send value to somebody in Iran from the US for example.

It's a hen-egg problem. Right now very few people see value in Bitcoin in Iran, so they ask their relatives to send USD via Dubai or whatever at a 40% loss. If they find out they can sell bitcoins in Iran for 10% commission, they will change their mind, so please offer stuff to Iranians (if you know you can deliver) and let people know. Money will find it's way.
1087  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 10/90 - how rich/poor are the forum users on: February 04, 2013, 01:15:16 PM
According to the data I have 1 bitcoin. That's about right.
Really?
I assumed you had at least some Satoshi Dice shares but if you say so, 100% are owned by anonymous investors Wink
1088  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and gold hoarders on: February 04, 2013, 12:51:52 PM
When I see someone rocking a big chain made of Bitcoins then I will  say gold is pointless.

I would say the bitcoin blockchain pretty much rocks, doesn't it?
1089  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin and gold hoarders on: February 04, 2013, 12:50:40 AM
Gold has history, is limited by demand and supply in the market, and can be used in person to person exchange without digital technology.

… if you are into tungsten.

@OP: I agree the slogan of the sticker is a bit weird. Too bad. Cool idea to get promotional material distributed. Too bad it doesn't reach the right people.
1090  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: BATM on: February 02, 2013, 04:34:00 PM
I doubt that once enough people trade bitcoins, you will still be able to charge 3+3 %.
I wanted to sell but had time, so I copied the others that sold at +5% and waited. Nobody showed up. Then it got urgent and I completely removed the fee, I actually paid 5% for one trade but now people cue up for small trades and I send them on when it exceeds my needs. Charging 0% has the advantage that people come close to you and won't argue if you round up on the trade. Long term this is the margin for every-day trades. If you need more liquidity, you will still pay a fee.
1091  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: BATM on: February 02, 2013, 12:23:17 PM
The problem I see with localbitcoins... at least for me... is that profits are so small. For instance.. say I sell for $21 when the price is 20.  That's only a dollar profit per bitcoin.

I've been exchanging bitcoins locally for a 6% spread: selling for 3% over Mt.Gox and buying for 3% under.  You're right, there's not much money to be made when the value of gas and time and the exchange rate volatility risk is factored in, but I'm excited to be a part of monetary revolution, and I get to meet a lot of interesting people.  Besides, I'm building trust at this point, and once the volume gets high enough, the profits will be there.  You can also look at it like you would running an I2P router: you aren't making any money off the other people using your bandwidth, but you are improving your own anonymity in the process.

The person to person trade is super important. My 5 last trades had 2 with total newbies that both had no wallet ready at the time we met. #1 was interested and wanted my advise on which wallet to use. #2 had no clue about the concept of wallets at all. He even suggested he gives me the 100€ now and I send him the money later when he figured it out. Hope he hasn't lost the MyWallet that we set him up on his iPhone.
Basically if you have a high density of regular bitcoin users, an ATM makes sense but currently the person to person trade still is very much about education and exchange of ideas.
1092  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Circle of Trust [Game/experiment] on: February 02, 2013, 11:55:12 AM
(Please don't run away with this one Tongue)

Rassah will not run with it. He's more famous for giving it to charitable organizations Wink
1093  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Circle of Trust [Game/experiment] on: February 01, 2013, 03:24:13 PM

"Geez I'm dense"? DobZombie denying responsibility a-priory? Witch hunt anybody? DobZombie for SCAMMER-tag?

Are you serious.

A little bit, yes Smiley

Hey, DobZombie, if I had the feeling you would suicide in shame now, I would apologize but I don't, so yes, I really do consider it possible that you are in some connection to Jakers. I would have to check if we had some penalty for the last one to hold the coin but I'm writing this more in a popcorn mood than in anger over some scammers.

Marking all as scammers that don't repair the damage would be a tougher rule that we did not decide on. At least not in the OP and that's what counts.

Maybe we should start over with 10Ƀ, with the above rule that all get marked scammers that don't repair the damage done by subsequent scammers. This might get escrows into play.
1094  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Circle of Trust [Game/experiment] on: February 01, 2013, 03:12:50 PM
For the record, I recived 2.07811815 and passed on 2.08  Grin

Feel free to add such information for each transaction or just for yours.

For the record: The list of transactions is by no means consistent or complete. It was just all the stuff me and others felt worthy to be mentioned.
1095  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A simple definition of "lost" coins on: January 31, 2013, 10:47:01 PM
I solo-mined a block in June 2011 and didn't move it until last week when I moved it to a different wallet. Shitty guess I would say. <tin-foil-hat>The fed mined their millions not to crash the market further when a bubble bursts but to prepare for a post-dollar age.</tin-foil-hat>
Actually I never lost faith in Bitcoin going far up and beyond of its history record, so low rates were times for buying, not selling. Any equally bullish person would just not touch their old coins.
1096  Economy / Trading Discussion / Drag and Drop trading interface for MtGox on: January 31, 2013, 05:01:43 PM
Hi

I have no clue about trading but I wonder if there is some drag and drop interface to place and change orders that would talk to the MtGox API.

I imagine an upper part just like mtgoxlive and below two bars with my $ and Ƀ balances. Dragging within these bars would "grab" the corresponding percentage of my respective balance and allow me to drop it on the market depth above. I would see pins with each of my orders in the market depth so I can drag them back down to my wallet or to some other $ value in the market depth.

I could also imagine this as a paid feature of btccharts.com.

Here is a mock-up:


Notice how the %-values are 0% in the middle and 100% on the outer edge. Reason is that I want this interface to work without having to click again for confirmation and to achieve that, short mouse movements that are more likely to be accidental, should have little chance of ending in a catastrophe. If I drag all my Ƀ and drop them too soon, it's unlikely somebody will snatch them. 2% dropped too soon and being snatched is less dramatic.
1097  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Circle of Trust [Game/experiment] on: January 31, 2013, 12:47:23 PM
Witch hunting is too tempting, sorry.

How likely is it that DobZombie meets Jakers in several totally unrelated threads within Jakers first 100 posts?
[2,968,775]Difficulty Discussion Thread [TRENDING ↑] by DobZombie
Re: If you're thinking buying mining hardware, read this first
1098  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Circle of Trust [Game/experiment] on: January 31, 2013, 12:13:40 PM
We shouldn't have been sending $80 to people with accounts less than one month old

We?
You could argue that sending is in the responsibility of the person sending as else I could always send to my sock puppet even if the others doubt this to be a good idea. I'm pretty sure I brought up this scenario in this thread. Also we had discussed accounts younger than that game.

Geez I'm DENSE

Status: 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 7 nodes
Date: 15/01/2013 21:05
To: 1K4pjMGTntWFvsaTbMhq5BJ7DVSbrpm86G
Debit: -3.6695 BTC
Net amount: -3.6695 BTC
Transaction ID: 585e232888d9ea5f31460ce2bdbeba5458365ed6d9ef4c9b86171706f890b33a

Done Smiley
"Geez I'm dense"? DobZombie denying responsibility a-priory? Witch hunt anybody? DobZombie for SCAMMER-tag?

To be honest I expected the experiment to "fail" and just wondered how long the scammers would wait. I would suggest to keep the witch hunt out of this thread and draw our conclusions. For me the experiment was a success and would be interested in:
How long did it take (min/max/avg/median/sum) from player joining to him getting the coin.
How much did we pay in fees (min/max/avg/median/sum).
How many people actually were labeled scammers later (currently at least 4! unfortunately scammers also delete their posts so I can't check on all of the list)

And here is the updated list:
Quote

 ID NICK               RECEIVED BY                        POST_ID_AND_COMMENTS
  1 Garr255            189JHV6KPzvnPmjYCGPbvMMmZUWppere7h #2
  2 the joint          17EVRSvdPJGhk7uKHCpY9ghnWnx7j3pPAs #3
  3 sadpandatech       13YmfB6TeLzyCdnwsVZ5MdYVCLnfm5eNGF #4
  4 nimda              1KiZGitw2zEr4uPzZsT7dh7F6e5yoKGvE7 #5
  5 Al the Alpaca      1EWRJ5BeibZxMguujPLzqM8WWiHpFJtLLx #6
  6 pirateat40         1CR5BadHQt8wd4t98mE4rw9hUfSGQ4ZGDg #19 <- SCAMMER
  7 rjk                17qypELtTKqr716m937wLWbapnFG6i4fyZ #20
  8 NothinG            1BjMLLGrwYk3hrcnSqEUEeGchkx9tiykfY #21
  9 PatrickHarnett     1KwECAhJGr8BPGgn6mezf5Z3jT7vG1HaAZ #27 <- SCAMMER
 10 pekv2              12NcNYb2oEh6ANo95AakEjPqQdgbcxh4m9 #32
 11 unclemantis        12kM9BocNb5zSG7RMKp9wPxopK5NpayrMZ #33
 12 mb300sd            1HVmv5EtQZtcsFfXe6Crz972BrB1MwsNCM #38
 13 rudrigorc2         1MSPwixhqiwMLXxw3WXtNjg2nst6qVWhCX #43
 14 Brunic             16Hz2xA4NmAp4CU3Mr9aJy8H9D5XqXupHG #48
 15 fatigue            1Fj4QZbavJeKfagjDqUPFqQ4iJ4bHqFAMG #51
 16 Phraust            15UJrPbxd6ULPJaxASUoWUp6xc473T7mww #87
 17 adamstgBit         15nutdfqcS38hXdZoL7LNz5wBt8Aq4wCUT #88
 18 bluefirecorp       1PsQ8qFp6ZY94gXvFLP4cqcmoLQSDCqLJc #89
 19 Drakahn            1C1UMHsdPxgsWGWBhdaTC47kibJjFgWnhb #90
 20 Gladamas           1FVySmZNZ6LUvz1mKkt9zgRWjBzvkM4Roh #91
 21 phantitox          1GtGFJskG47Q6Q1NFsfMLWfNV9ivabbyab #92
 22 John (johnthedong) 1Cm2ymVqiHA42jv31rtyze684oWTDkreza #97 instawallet addy, DON't REUSE
 23 Keefe              1BZy1xxwcxQyRZErcYUFke72TSU7cV5Ptf #106
 24 Otoh               1G5apmPvo2iTtmkNWAHTCET7Y842Ufijs8 #109
 25 [Tycho]            1VayNert3x1KzbpzMGt2qdqrAThiRovi8  #74
 26 Dalkore            12SSYCcvaHadm8Myxb3mUTzyv96VNhyzeZ #66
 27 payb.tc            14no5MUE4ur2gyyEE3BHpHhV82gKm8NLbH #132
 28 damnek             17xbiU6EWdaf74rmwxPv9AQZc1MeKMWh5n #114
 29 Tril               1Xgeo7EQgrk22paxmKVrhNVSmauczL6EE  #116
 30 Scott J            18UVSvCAb6QGjPSdiXxveeu56ujmu3kTt4 #117
 31 honest bob         14x3n2ntSAGN4gGvGoLhi6NbUuuoWwvfdL #139
 32 giszmo             1KLYFWyv5aeci2PwJQs9aTRN1JRzDDL96o #142
 33 arklan             1F4j4Lha8BjL4wxwFVbGaQwMJ4Kd1brfXb #144
 34 dooglus            1BooBz2AEwUd6JepB7NhNsnAe58Q6obpcu #157
 35 riX                155gBnpiBQcpnP6coTX6V7znSK3G73uNjK #158
 36 RyNinDaCleM        1Bgi9fX1TD9cnuzBvWGLfm7D7sNVEq96UU #173
 37 hongus             1APyqdvGMvjfEMPKCo3oHSJ4CkJuXhTCy1 #238
 38 flatfly            1337sfeChyyzZLzdHLewXzcaAaJSNTM893 #243
 39 URSAY              1MzjNVW8z5SuMsGPgQfWZoyKaxsc1VkLXh #248
 40 nckrazze           111mamKazi1ofZ854rKTcAxhTVuGDPhhL  #257 <- SCAMMER
 41 TYDIRocks          1PowhrA8kxnn9UBj2ESg7GQzkwTpcg44zm #272
 42 Gyrsur             1FSfmWAMUsuBzUTrXgKaTE9TsSjJw1knvw #274
 43 OneEyed            1MJS3FuUrWmyfvvRnm5gUYvpuFkYDzxCP4 #277
 44 Namworld           14x36ktcNuf3CNrkVH1XY7vXwGHb9mCZwF #281
 45 augustocroppo      161gEQewAVp6CFnoY5198vHchrbWLQytG7 #284
 46 CornedBeefHash     1FvXoLCFmmRTAHJv5xMZLoMoeKBJHMCLnY #291
 47 theboss            1EQfkKVZndiesJcwThRe5AAq15dZ56mZku #293
 48 Maidak             14bsB5cugXFYaVZWsuoEYABd9gvkowv42a #296
 49 scintill           1jCU7tevhLNaY3nDL4tinNu8NuSzDtwKh  #299
 50 chrisrico          1Mn7mjk69WJY85Ukwd4sFSRMALokoni13L #301
 51 jasinlee           1AvxDf5WPWvrUgLsPLpb6a8mYsPXNYxNMr #304  +.01BTC
 52 fabrizziop         1MFfixQTJJ4v2PUKrz5kotQq1dPSJFUA71 #311 +.0001BTC
 53 sethsethseth       1K42vUtvmg8hW6M6UjubCFhmJLv4jLby4C #314
 54 Spenzert           19nPdToTaAh2jVUuotaiDhPBxcPLuLEuXD #319 signed his message, +.0001BTC
 53 sethsethseth       1K42vUtvmg8hW6M6UjubCFhmJLv4jLby4C #322 <- keeping it in place of #54
 55 Fjordbit           1KZnfWkXXLdEjvQKYALbEsjbeWpvSG9NWB #328 +.0001BTC
 56 danieldaniel       17QAPwXnqXX771j2CB7y2ahuoX76X4aipv #340
 57 caffeinewriter     13373CuvtwQGgDWYv28pm3mTxy2bGS5U4D #342
 58 stan.distortion    13TasmL5GRp27JfbuTpGBAx1iDYyygb4gP #356
 59 MKEGuy             12Zu56v2CENZREzQnaEia37CeBEEDG96fK #358
 60 ianbakewell        1Q1k2uTUZ1ZSSufH2w9xnCnPPzC1QmreEa #371
 61 squall1066         1ES9YKx3RHSsFLsGAKJva4cG8W7xG4kHok #373 "Rounded up to 2.27BTC"
 62 Gavin Andresen     12r6DPnX5TNK4PhnTiShmuK6o4jE8Yh28C #377 "rounded up to 3.11 BTC (because eleven is my favorite number)"
 63 dreamwatcher       1JYMASNzjSPhQZi6zjpb2duBLo3wXPSWLj #380 "Upped it to 3.5 BTC"
 64 lightlord          13cjE1VDsiF5SjFEt5kg2izYmcvUmpwTi5 #381
 65 kwoody             1CvU9yqNQHKLHVrJnwgVQcoUJ9GfUzS8Ad #382 "Sent 3.66666420 to Carlos L."
 66 Carlos L.          18zSd8Ra4bioqQAfSVMqr8J6MtaY58xA31 #388
 67 x0Jakeyboy0x       1JvRuTLAo3hMbEqEDZ5V6V9YbvhjbfhkuX #391
 68 novusordo          1novusxwhCh11QyXp1Jj3e6hdhk6qZZ3E  #406
 69 BTCGOLD            18VumBd2W89yYGXMQCF9z8SZj7bG93EGqC #409
 71 CurbsideProphet    1GKv7EnAABx9wk1CnE6Xqa2rATm17JHtQS #411 "Received 3.67BTC"
 72 nethead            1NqcmfCCz1bsFjJaYxhnkbcfaZS7C9a5z2 #414 "3.6695 recieved"
 73 DobZombie          1Zombi5KpntBBFfm9FngsYhsiR4QAmfce  #418 "Geez I'm dense"
 74 Jakers             14vCb4rr1SdWFLDFgW4NMUbodPYqcCoRm2 #401 <-- currently has coins <- SCAMMER
########## ########## ########## ########## ########## ########## ########## ####------ ---------- ----------
1099  Bitcoin / Press / 2013-01-28 dw.de - Deutsche Welle - Shift (video) on: January 30, 2013, 06:30:25 PM
Starting at 7:30 Bitcoin is presented featuring Room77 (Jörg Platzer: "The same banks that scam people in poorer countries with high fees on every transaction make their food 3 times more expensive by speculating with their food" (quote is not word by word)), Bitcoin Conference London, Birgitta Jónsdóttir, Mike Hearn ("also Google is interested in the online currency" … good one Smiley ), illegal business, money laundering,

Super positive Bitcoin feature with the conclusion: "Shift says: Not yet the big hit."

http://www.dw.de/programm/shift/s-30411-9800
1100  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-02 emirates.com/open skies - goodbye cash – could bitcoin be the paperless on: January 30, 2013, 06:16:42 PM
This is so great placement! Couldn't be better. Too bad "Bitcoin is pre-Netscape" with an """info""" graphic underlining how it is pre-anything that anybody could possibly want to have a second look at.

Sorry I don't see how Bitcoin is pre-Netscape to start with. I would get Bitcoins sent to anybody with a smartphone in his hands within less than a minute (given he trusts me). No need to fucking confuse people with such a shitty understatement/misinformation. "Pre-Netscape" being a Tony-the-Bitcoin-advocate-quote makes it even worse.

@Tony: Please tell me they got you out of context with that quote or they had to present bitcoin as a joke to get a chance to feature it at all. Else 7 pages of Bitcoin really is great. Do you know how many flights*seats this will be on board?
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