And your alternative is? Ukraine giving Putin whatever he wants? How suspiciously convenient.

Again and again the same argument, again the same answer: giving Putler what he ask means another war in 5 years. Exactly the same as when Hitler invaded Slovakia and Czechia and Europe did nothing: Poland was next, and the the USSR. Leaders like Putin and countries with a kleptocratic government do not have limits to their ambitions. They have to be left without means of aggression.

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal

Thwarted by minefields, Ukrainian forces won’t reach the southeastern city of Melitopol, a vital Russian transit hub, according to a U.S. intelligence assessment
...
The U.S. intelligence community assesses that Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to reach the key southeastern city of Melitopol
...
The grim assessment is based on Russia’s brutal proficiency in defending occupied territory through a phalanx of minefields and trenches, and is likely to prompt finger pointing inside Kyiv and Western capitals about why a counteroffensive that saw tens of billions of dollars of Western weapons and military equipment fell short of its goals.
...
Joint war games conducted by the U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials.
...
Kyiv has recently dedicated more reserves to the front, including Stryker and Challenger units, but has yet to break through Russia’s main defensive line.
...
“Russia has three main defensive lines there and then fortified cities after that,” he said. “It’s not just a question about whether Ukraine can breach one or two of them, but can they breach all three and have enough forces available after taking attrition to achieve something more significant like taking Tokmak or something beyond that.”
...
The bleak outlook, briefed to some Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill, has already prompted a blame game inside closed-door meetings. Some Republicans are now balking at President Biden’s request for an additional $20.6 billion in Ukraine aid given the offensive’s modest results. Other Republicans and, to a lesser extent, hawkish Democrats have faulted the administration for not sending more powerful weapons to Ukraine sooner.
...
While not achieving its objectives, he noted Kyiv’s success in degrading Russian forces.
...
U.S. officials said the Pentagon recommended multiple times that Ukraine concentrate a large mass of forces on a single breakthrough point. Though Ukraine opted for a different strategy, officials said it was Kyiv’s call to make given the profound sacrifice Ukrainian troops were making on the battlefield.
...
Analysts say the challenges Ukraine has faced are multifaceted, but nearly all agree that Russia surpassed expectations when it comes to its proficiency in defending occupied territory.
...
The Ukrainians have for months poured tremendous resources into Bakhmut, including soldiers, ammunition and time, but they have lost control of the city and have made only modest gains in capturing territory around it. And while the close-in, trench-line fighting is different in Bakhmut from the problem of mines in the south, the focus has left some in the Biden administration concerned that overcommitting in the east may have eroded the potency of the counteroffensive in the south.
...
The new intelligence assessment aligns with a secret U.S. forecast from February indicating that shortfalls in equipment and force strength may mean that the counteroffensive will fall “well short” of Ukraine’s goal to sever the land bridge to Crimea by August.
...
One defense official said it is possible that Ukraine could buck historical norms and continue the counteroffensive through the winter, when everything including keeping soldiers warm and stocked with food and ammunition becomes much more difficult.
...
But Moscow may also outperform during winter military operations.
“Russians are known to be capable of fighting in cold weather,” the official said.

Sanctions and their effect

https://www.businessinsider.com/war-in-ukraine-russia-richer-millionaires-billionaires-uhnw-wealth-ubs-2023-8

The number of Russian millionaires also rose by about 56,000 to 408,000 in 2022, while the number of ultra-high-net-worth individuals — people worth over $50 million — jumped by nearly 4,500.

But the US lost more wealth than any other country last year, shedding $5.9 trillion, while North America and Europe combined got $10.9 trillion poorer, UBS reported.

There were also 1 million fewer American millionaires by the end of 2022,  although the US still accounted for over 50% of the world's ultra-high-net-worth individuals, the bank said.

Well, it really seems to be wasted time to explain that to you because you are not able to understandt it.  
Not my issue, deal with it.
You might be older but you have earned far less Merit and contributed far less valuable content. Heck, you are an embarassment by pushing Kremlin talking points every day. Shame, shame.
Enjoy the time in your cell...


LOOOOL, now you are really embarrassed, since I've delievered a source and you didn't like it because my source is exactly pointing out the issue.
Here it is again:



Of course, you have no arguments now and look like a washed clown...


Which is wrong once again and you are just looking like a fool because you can't prove that Ukraine is behind it.
It's all "if's", "looks like's", "could be's", "traces", "hints" from you for this useless pipeline, where the west couldn't care less about it because no matter if blown up or not blown up, this project is dead and there won't be any purchases of Russian gas into Germany. Only our German AfD idiots party would resume it and I expect that Germany won't vote them again after our previous adventure with a similar party.
Our "if's", "looks like's", "could be's", "traces", "hints" of the day:
*suspected* Ukrainian involvement
*traces are leading into Ukraine* (which can be everything in case Rusia has faked these traces into Ukraine with agents, cooperating undercover with Ukrainian "patriots".  
Are just too obsessed with defend war criminal Putler or are you really to dumb to understand it? Genuine question!
Maybe travel to Moscow and protest to "stop the war" there. Let's see what will happen.  


You asked and I delievered:


And now you are looking like a washed clown.  


LOL, everyone who says otherwise that he can predict election results in 2, 4 or even 8 years is a straight out liar.
I can't predict it, no one can predict it reliably.  


You are really incapable to research properly. Posts in Politics and Society are not counted:


So, I don't expect to get a reward for this and even if, it would be a neutral reward, or are you saying, that Zelensky is operating MixTum mixer?  
Maybe you can spin an anti-Ukrainian story around it: Zelensky operating Bitcoin launderer "MixTum" to obfuscate funds from NATO into drug purchases for his Nazi friends.  
Here you go:

Just for shits and giggles I opened the last page of your post history and searched for a question mark ("?"). 180 results. Granted this includes quotes and you tend to ladder-quote a lot, but still, it's an excessive number. For example 1miau and paxmao have 50 each, many of which come from quoting you. I hope that settles your question about questions. People who have something to say (like actual opinions or facts) don't have to wrap it into this "I'm just a bystander asking a question" nonsense. Thus your statement about not engaging in a conversation and just shitposting is a projection. You do this excessively and you accuse others of it.

Ukraine’s Slog Prompts Focus on Next Year’s Fight
...
But military strategists and policy makers across the West are already starting to think about next year’s spring offensive. The shift reflects a deepening appreciation that, barring a major breakthrough, Ukraine’s fight to eject Russia’s invasion forces is likely to take a long time.
...
But an initial attempt to use newly supplied Western tanks and armored vehicles to punch through fortified Russian lines stalled.
...
But military leaders and policy makers already are grappling with the question of what can be achieved in the next few months and how to prepare for a protracted conflict.

A nagging concern in Kyiv and Western capitals is that politicians and voters may come to see the war as a quagmire and sour on supporting Ukraine. Even if Kyiv’s Western backers stay resolute, clocks are ticking as Ukrainian forces burn through munitions, manpower and stamina for a grueling fight.

All military campaigns end at some point—even in wars that grind on for years—at what tacticians call a culmination, or the point when advancing forces can go no further due to success, impediments or lack of supplies.
...
“I do think there’s a realization in the administration that Ukraine’s not going to be regaining all its territory any time soon,” Daalder said. [former President Barack Obama’s ambassador to NATO]
...
U.S. and other Western officials have hoped that a significant Ukrainian breakthrough could bruise Russian forces enough to bring President Vladimir Putin to a negotiating table as soon as this winter for serious talks about some kind of settlement. Chances of that happening now appear slim, diplomats say.
Instead, Russia is reinforcing its physical defenses in Ukraine, adding more soldiers and ramping up production of ammunition and weaponry. The West is also cranking up military industries, raising the prospect of a protracted war of attrition.
...
History shows otherwise, with wars averaging from three to seven years with multiple campaign seasons, they say.
“This war could look like the Korean War, with rapid movement on the front line in the early months and then relative stasis—but it takes years for both sides to realize that,” said Dmitry Gorenburg, a Russia expert at the Center for Naval Analyses, a think tank linked to the Pentagon.
...
Rain and snow might slow operations of heavy equipment such as tanks, but Ukrainian forces have proven most effective so far when operating in small units, often with lighter equipment.
...
Ukraine’s initial attempts to use European tanks and U.S. troop carriers in the offensive didn’t fare well, but by next spring Kyiv will have both more Western equipment and more skilled operators of the gear.
...
By the middle of next year, Ukraine might also be flying U.S.-made F-16 jet fighters
...
Russia has antiaircraft systems that might hit the planes, raising concerns in Washington that Ukrainian fighters would just get shot down. Equipping them with munitions such as the Joint Standoff Weapon and Paveway precision-guided bombs could allow F-16s to keep a safer distance from the front.
...
The West might also eventually provide more advanced equipment, like sophisticated drones capable of air attacks. Early this year U.S. weapons maker General Atomics offered Ukraine two of its Reaper MQ-9 drones for one dollar
...
Working against Ukraine, in addition to weather, are potentially dwindling supplies of Western munitions and wear on equipment already donated.
...
Russia also continues to reinforce its defenses in Ukraine, including by putting new land mines in some places Ukrainian troops have cleared them.
Strategists looking to next year and beyond hope that over time—even as Russia reinforces impediments to Ukrainian assaults—Ukrainian troops can acquire skills and experience that allow them to outmaneuver and outsmart Russian forces.

How politicians will view the war next year remains a widespread concern, especially because of the U.S. presidential election next November. Former President Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, has suggested he would curtail support to Ukraine.
...
Concern that such support might fade if Trump were to regain the White House increases pressure on Ukraine and its supporters to deliver significant gains in the next campaign season if they aren’t possible this year.

And this is a clear example of how someone who does not have an argument throws a smoke screen in the shape of a wall of text, an image that is unrelated to the topic and ends with this marvellous question "what is Kremlin copypasta".

Well, it is exactly what you do: give veracity to unverifiable information, use "information" coming from the regime loud-speaking trolls and attacking anyone who calls your bluff.

IF  my lack of credibility is exposed THEN
  Walltextit
  Use bold letters
  Throw unrelated pictures in
  Go into rant
ELSE
  Go to Kremlin and "copypasta" again
EN IF

You are the one who's confused and can't even calculate my age.
We are on the internet, deal with it.

Nope, obviously you are not capable to understand my post.  
I've described it above that the issue is "false balancing", where two opinions are cited while the one is true or close to the truth (Ukraine) and the other one is a straight out lie (Russia) but who am I to explain this to a Kremlin troll like you, whose arguments are based on repeating Kremlin propaganda every day and false balancing.  

You are obviously too dumb to research it yourself. Here is one case:
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/putin-droht-bei-einem-angriff-setzt-russland-atomwaffen-ein-li.295226

And that's it, article's end.
Poor Pootin, is playing his strawman and victim card again, "evil West want's to attack friendly Russia".  

Russia isn't "threatened" in any way.
The west won't start a nuclear war.
Russia is the one who's repeatedly threatening to use a nuclear bomb in Ukraine and is already bombing Ukraine deliberately.
I'm not saying Berliner Zeitung launched this low quality BS intentionally to spread Putin's lies but it's just very fortunate for Putin to get his message out there.  
But useful tools, like you, will still find an excuse for Putler's propaganda and continue to spread it willfully.


When reading your comments, one can get the impression that you are the one who's in dire need of some education.
Don't you have any education in your cell?

How many % our radical far-right AfD will get can't be answered because I'm not able to look into the future.  
The previous radical far-right organization achieved 43.91% and we all know how it ended...  

---

In addition, I'm not surprised from someone who's behind bars and is unable to avoid pyramid quotes...  
Keep pushing your Kremlin propaganda.

No, but you are obviously behind bars.  

Of course it says, but you are just not capable of calculating... Well, that's not my issue, dude...

All mayour outlets are doing it, some with addressing Kremlin lies, some without addressing it (properly).
There are many cases, for example the Bucha massacre.
While it's well proven that Russia did a massacre against Ukrainian civilians there and everyone (who's sane) condemned Russia's war crime, Russia claimed, it's "staged by Ukrainians" and we all know that's one of Putler's propaganda lies again to discredit Ukraine and deny Russian war crimes.
Media outlets have reported on it and tell what Ukraine says about + tell what Russia says about it. Some might add a part where Russia's lies are proven wrong, some outlets won't add anything, just the two sides and their quotes.
But I believe you are well aware about it and your question is just a rhetorical one.  
"We nEed tO hEaR boTh siDEs" - is a bit odd, where the russian side is straigh out lying.  

I've already answered your question but you didn't like my answer.
Here it is again: I've told you already that our radical right-wing party (AfD) is very unlikely to get into power and therefore the sane parties won't make Putin a favor and these parties will avoid to do anything where no proper proof is presented.
AfD is a fascist party and they will do everything to do their friend, Putler, a favor, no matter how many "could be's", "might's", "looks likes" and "if's" there'll be.
Heck, they won't need anything substantial to throw Ukraine under the bus right away because AfD is a bunch of fascist, corrupt, Kremlin-owned clowns.
The last non-idiots in leading positions have left AfD long ago, let's hear, what Jörg Meuthen, former AfD-Chairman (who has left AfD) said about AfD when he left: "I clearly see totalitarian tendencies". And that's why he left AfD. AfD loves totalitarian idiots like Trump or Putler.
And you are enabling them, AfD and Putler. Of course, not all AfD politicians are traitors, but the loudest ones are:

In favor to sue German weapons deliveries: AfD employee apparently begged in Moscow for money

---

Interesting point, now we know why they are that active...  

Straw man (or as you would say "show me where I said that you're not answering my questions"). I don't care enough about your delusions to have any questions for you. Z-telegram is full of stuff that you keep reposting - boring, repetitive, mostly false garbage - so I'm quite familiar with the topic and the style, thank you very much. It's just funny to observe you pretending (or genuinely believing) that you're so smart being able to post it here.


Aaaaaand again with the "western news articles" and meaningless "questions" that I must answer because reasons. Let me try, maybe it will work for you... Do I look like I'm some sort of supervisor of "western news" and must explain everything they publish? Is "western news" with you in your room right now? Have you tried "eastern news" - maybe it would be less anxiety-inducing for you?

projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds. For example, individuals who are in a self-critical state, consciously or unconsciously, may think that other people are critical of them.

the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.

Researching seems to be a very difficult challenge for you but you can look it up on my profile page.  


I've claimed nowhere that western media is spreading Putin propaganda.
Of course, western media will report about "traces leading to Ukraine, traces of explosives found on the ship" etc. etc. because western media is far less corrupt than your Putler TV counterpart.
But "traces leading to Ukraine, traces of explosives found on the ship" doesn't mean that Ukraine DID it: traces can be faked by Putler to accuse Ukraine and even the whole "Ukrainian boat" story might be untrue as pointed out because Russian ships have been located there as well: Putin's secret convoi.
Sometimes, some outlets are a bit too naive and just quote the Kremlin statements without addressing the lies. That's a big issue because addressing the Kremlin misinformation right away is very important.
For some outlets, it's also an issue that a few authors are deliberate Putin apologists and they are obsessed with defending Putins war crimes and try to get their bullshit text into German publications and even on TV.
Like you, they are competely obsessed and their only "mission" is to defend Putler. Like always in our talk shows, where always a Putin apologist is invited as a guest and their only part is to spread Putin's disproven propaganda again and again in German talk shows.
Like: "delievering weapons to Ukraine is fueling the war", "we need to talk to Putin", "Putin is misunderstood", "but NATO bad", "Ukraine needs to concede territory to Russia" etc. etc. etc...
These people are very annoying and a big joke (like you).

For them, it's all about trying to push these Kremlin talking points again and again to sow discord and doubt.

---

I've told you already that our radical right-wing party (AfD) is very unlikely to get into power and therefore the sane parties won't make Putin a favor and these parties will avoid to do anything where no proper proof is presented.
Obviously, you are at the point, where you would like to throw Ukraine under the bus and nothing is too shady for you to do it.

So, once again:

LOL, another staple of Soviet/Putin propaganda - projection. All you got is Kremlin copypasta. Everything Putin does is great. Ukraine - terrorists. And you're the adult because you said so.

The sad part is that people like you probably won't ever admit they've been wrong, like most of Eastern Europe had to in late 1980s. Back then the truth was kind of unavoidable once it started pouring through the cracks in the iron curtain. These days you can just google something and pretend it supports your bubble and even find someone like BADecker to agree with you.

But hey, if it makes you happy, who am I to argue with that.

Nice to have your confirmation that you can't disprove that Putin faked this "Ukrainian boat" story to accuse Ukraine and destroy Ukraine's coalition.  

That's cheap coming from a person who can't prove that Ukraine is definitely behind it.  
As I've said before, Putin really likes to lie to the public and even to his loyal serfs.  
The problem with Putins propaganda is one thing: it's created that way that it's really difficult to be proven wrong because it's just trying to achieve one thing: His propaganda doesn't need to stick, it's enough if it's causing enough fear, uncertainty, doubt and discord between Ukraine's allies. And Putin could still put his useless pipeline in a martyr role: blow it up and accuse "evil Ukraine has destroyed his great pipeline".
Putin knows very well, that his loyal apologists will push even the dumbest stories, where every time someone else except Russia is at fault. Russia invades Ukraine? Everyone is at fault but not Russia. Russia bombed Ukraine? It didn't happen or Ukraine bombed itself. According to Putler's propaganda, it's never Russia.
He's committing war crimes and at the same time he's playing the victim card. And Kremlin trolls like you are enabling that.
Shame, shame.  


Well, that's an outright lie, I have never claimed that the earth would be flat.  
No need to bring up any stupid strawmen here...
What else could we expect from dumb pricks like you...  

I've stopped counting, but probably we are at post number 10 or 11 right now...
Must be extremely important to you to defend war criminal Putler.

Putin is really proud to have loyal serfs like you because without them, his propaganda wouldn't stick as easily as loyal serfs like you are spreading them constantly.  

You putting question marks on your sentences doesn't make then something to be answered. "Firehose" of loaded questions used to be prominent in Soviet propaganda and Putin has clearly evolved this style for the new intertubes era.


But let me guess, these are the bad lizards, can't believe this article, Ukrainians did it.

Ruzzia is on the mindset of applying the same method that they use at home to turn the constituents in democracies against Ukraine. At this moment they are shouting over an over that the offensive is a failure. By force of repetition and with some echo in selected western media, they pretend to shape public opinion. It is not the first time and it will not be the last.

My hope is that people from Europe, US and other countries can discern at minimum their own best interests in all this.

None of which we're supposed to trust because global lizard conspiracy against Russia, or is that different now?

But I get it, the free speech thing and freedom in general is confusing. Lots of different opinions and not just one party telling you what to think.

You clearly have not understand anything from what I've explained to you. I have quoted the maritime expert because he's a maritime expert and not an explosives expert. The operation is far more than xx kg of explosives. You don't do this sort of operation on a day trip. Not on this ship, not 100s of km from the German cost, where the Andromeda was rented, not for 3x blowing up the pipelines.  
But since you claim a possible Russian false flag has been refutet, you have not provided any proof, why it shouldn't be possible that Russia has left these traces on the "Ukrainian boat" intentionally.
The version of Russia leaving these traces of "light" explosives intentionally would be very plausible to make their story more "legitimate".

I'm always surprised to see people like you  completely overlooking the fact that only 3 pipelines out of 4 were detonated. Guess what? Maybe people would see the clear picture that only Putin has to gain something to blow up 3 of 4 Pipelines of that useless gas pipeline.

Nice collection of loaded questions and other insinuations. Good indication of how you tend to twist anything and generally have no interest in discussing stuff in good faith.

First of all, acceptance? LOL. It's a hypothetical. I don't know who did it, nor do you no matter how hard you pretend.

Then you're trying to pretend as if it happened in Sweden or Denmark. It didn't. Nor do the pipelines belong to Sweden or Denmark. It's Gazprom property in international waters. Not much different than sinking a Russian ship in Black Sea.

But yeah, some governments and news sources and perhaps even some users of this forum would use big words like "sabotage" (not "terrorism" though; try a dictionary if you're confused) if the implication is that the "bad guys" did it, and likely would use different words if it was the "good guys", I'll give you that. This doesn't make your speculations into facts, it just makes you a doofus who can't (or doesn't want to) tell the difference.

My name is Jeffrey D. Sachs.  I am University Professor at Columbia University. I am a specialist in the global economy, including global trade, finance, infrastructure, and economic statecraft.  I appear before the UN Security Council on my own behalf.  I represent no government or organization in the testimony that I will deliver.

The destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines on September 26, 2022 constitutes an act of international terrorism and represents a threat to the peace.  It is the responsibility of the UN Security Council to take up the question of who might have carried out the act, in order to bring the perpetrator to international justice, to pursue compensation for the damaged parties, and to prevent future such actions. 

The blasts at the Nord Stream pipeline in September were caused by an act of sabotage, Swedish prosecutors said Friday after evidence of explosives was discovered at the sites by investigators.

In a statement, Mats Ljungqvist, the prosecutor leading the preliminary investigation, described the incident as “gross sabotage,”

You have not provided a single citation, where officials say that they have proof, that Ukraine is behind it. Because there is no proof that Ukraine is behind it. All, you have presented are guesses, "could be", "might be", "looks like" or similar.  
You are just hiding behind your weak "Ukrainian boat" story...
Keep insisting on it to defend your beloved war criminal in the Kremlin.

---

That's once again a lie from you because I've never said this. Stop making up things but lying seems to be your hobby...  

---

Just because a "light explosive" is suspected to be used, it doesn't mean, it has been used.
In case of a Russian false flag operation, it would have been a very easy thing from Russia to leave these traces intentionally on that rented "Ukrainian boat" to create this story and afterwards cry "Ukraine is evil and behind it". And loyal Putin serfs, like you are one, are doing the rest to push this story again and again.  

It's not surprising that Putin's war crimes apologists in the West have selected the "Ukrainian boat" theory because it's such a nebulous story and perfectly suited for Putler's approach to sow discord among Ukraine's allies, why not providing any valid proof. It's a story that nebulous that Putin's loyal servs can accuse Ukraine of anything.
You are a perfect tool for Putin to commit more war crimes in Ukraine and it's really surpsrising how vehemently you are trying to accuse Ukraine without having any solid proof.
Everyday a new post, today 2 new posts, so we are at post number 9 defending Putler.  

In opposite to you, I'm doing research and also thinking about it if it's making sense or not.
You are obviously lacking any critical thinking skills or why are you pushing this weak story now in over half a dozen posts, again and again? Putin really likes to have such loyal serfs like you because without you, he would be able to kill much less Ukrainians. People like you are the problem why Putin feels emboldened to invade Ukraine because people like you would keep purchasing cheap gas, funding Putins aggression and let him take whole Ukraine.
Shame, shame...


And you should read the forum rules and avoid pyramid quotes as well...  
But reading is not your strength, obviously...

---

It not even benefitted Germany anymore. When the pipelines were blown up, Germany had decided to abandon Russian gas, so all the pipelines would have been unseless anyways even if they'd still exist.
Also important to note, that 2 pipelines of NS1 were blown up but only 1 pipeline of NS2. 1 pipeline from NS2 is still intact.
And - no surprise - shortly after the explosions, Putin suggested to open the remaining NS2 pipeline.

Putin offers Europe gas through Nord Stream 2 - DW - 10/12/2022


Not suspicious, that one pipeline is still intact and Putin wants to start his NS2 project to keep Germany dependent and fund his russian war machine - not suspicious at all.

You seem to be enormously agitated by this pipeline that was made useless by your glorious leader long before it was damaged. What happened to the whole "let Europe freeze" strategy?

Anyways, even if "Ukraine" had done it, how the fuck would it be terrorism if they're at war with Putinstan... are we still pretending that it's just a "special operation" and it's super unfair for the special operators to suffer any consequences?

Dutch intelligence warned CIA about alleged Ukrainian plot to attack Nord Stream pipelines, Netherlands’ public broadcaster reports
...
Dutch military intelligence warned the American intelligence service, CIA, last year about an alleged Ukrainian plan to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines three months before they were hit
...
The United States received intelligence from a European ally last year that the Ukrainian military was planning an attack on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, CNN reported last week based on information from three US officials.
The attack on the pipelines last September has been condemned by US officials and Western allies alike as a sabotage on critical infrastructure.
...
Netherlands’s public broadcaster in its report said that the Dutch military intelligence service, MIVD, was able at an early stage to gather detailed information about alleged Ukrainian plot to blow up the pipelines.
...
The pipelines were controversial before the war in Ukraine began, stoking concerns about European dependence on Russian gas.

I have no interest whatsoever in "getting you", I do have interest in providing the right information (better, information that is right). You did not just say "Ukraine did it" (which I freely translate for the Ukrainian Government organised it), you said there was irrefutable proof of it. You showed some articles that mention very loose connections and mostly suspicions (even the titles of some say "suspicion").

Bottom line, there is no proof. My personal view - Russia most likely did it. My guess is that Ukraine would not damage infrastructure that mostly benefits Germany - an ally - and could stop EU aid if detected. Yes, I will write it again, the NS benefited mostly Germany.

You should read less Putin propaganda, you are already lying like Russian propagandists from Putler TV.
So, the expert Göran Swistek from my post above is "no citation"?  
Seriously?

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/nord-stream-andromeda-segeljacht-anschlag-sabotage-ukraine-krieg-102.html

Are you accusing me of plagiarism now? It's not a "citation"?
You are just delusional.

But to disappoint you even more, here's another German investigation where your "Ukrainian boat" theory gets rejected:

Putin's secret convoi

---

Nope, except bombing and destroying Ukrainian cities, fooling idiots like you is everything, Putin has "achieved" so far. What a shameful record...  


Luckily Putin's clowns are far away from getting into power in Germany, so I have to disappoint you.  

---

I stand corrected, it's your 6th post where you are defending war criminal Putler...  

In order to blow up the pipelines, investigators estimate that around 500 kilograms of TNT equivalent would be needed per explosion. Exactly how much was used cannot be said because it is unclear which explosive was used was used.

According to SPIEGEL information, the metadata of an e-mail that was sent when the Andromeda 5+ sailing yacht allegedly used to transport the explosives was rented leads to Ukraine.
…
There is also repeated talk of a so-called "false flag" operation by Russia. Among those familiar with the process, this is considered extremely unlikely. Behind the scenes, it was even said early on that Moscow had no real motive for the crime.
…
In the cabin of the "Andromeda" the remains of an explosive suitable for use under water were found over a large area. It is said to be octogen, an explosive that is widespread in both the West and the former Eastern bloc. Investigators have described the explosive power of the explosive charges used as equivalent to 500 kilograms of TNT.
…
Oktogen is much lighter than TNT, could be transported by a relatively small boat, and could have been taken to the bottom of the Baltic Sea by experienced combat divers. The often-put-up thesis that the assassins could only have brought the explosives to the site of the attack because of its weight with a larger ship and possibly a mini-submarine is no longer applicable Intelligence services suspect Ukrainian perpetrators

Again, making things up - I did not ever say I am a journalist.

I do not make any claim, I clearly stated that I am expressing my view based on my reasoning on who has to gain from the event. I am not blind and I understand that there are other reasons why this could have been done by others. The Nordstream by-passed Ukraine, that is there for everyone to see.

However you are effectively making a claim stating that there is "irrefutable proof" - that is not an view or an opinion, is an statement of facts -  thus you do have to provide such evidence. But you cannot, because whether you like it or not secret ops are mostly secret unless Snowden shows himself around.

Unfortunately, your claims are (once again) without any solid proof. There's exactly no proof pointing out that Ukraine is behind it. This boat story is just too weak and doesn't make really sense, like the expert in the ZDF article has explained. But you just ignore it...
Everything could be faked by Russia to have a false flag, where Ukraine is accused.
No wonder, pro-russian trolls are always jumping on that unproven story.
You are a good example for that.
After 1.5 years of war against Ukraine, Putin knows he can trust his apologists.  

It's a big shame that you are trying so vehemently to discredit Ukraine and throw Ukraine under the bus.
It's already your 5th post, where you are trying to accuse Ukraine for something, you have no valid proof for and Ukraine has no profit to do so. It's just pointless for Ukraine to blow up this useless pipeline, where already way before it happened, everyone knew, that NordStream 2 would never deliever any gas to Germany as long as Putin or his war crimes friends are waging war in Ukraine. No need for any western actor to blow it up...
And when the war is over, Germany will have 100% renewable energy and just don't need any Russian gas.
Russia has failed miserably.
Deal with it.  

Biden administration officials now privately concede there is no evidence that conclusively points to Moscow’s involvement. But publicly they have deflected questions about who might be responsible. European officials in several countries have quietly suggested that Ukraine was behind the attack but have resisted publicly saying so over fears that blaming Kyiv could fracture the alliance against Russia. At gatherings of European and NATO policymakers, officials have settled into a rhythm; as one senior European diplomat said recently, “Don’t talk about Nord Stream.”

...
The European intelligence made clear that the would-be attackers were not rogue operatives. All those involved reported directly to Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s highest-ranking military officer, who was put in charge so that the nation’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, wouldn’t know about the operation, the intelligence report said.

...

Finally we have something to discuss, it takes you a while to get of the irate responses and actually say something even if you have just one source and even if it is behind a paywall.

So, you base you accusation to the Ukrainian government of blowing up the NS because:

- A small vessel was around (definetly not at "the scene" which is 80 m below the water).
- That small vessel was rented by an Ukrainian company and sailed / operated from Poland.
- The vessel was in the area for 12 hours.
- Intelligence sources (take with plenty of salt) say that the US told Ukraine not to blow it up.

Anything else? Because that is not enough.
...

This is me waiting for your irrefutable evidence to contradict my views while you wonder around my posts - and keep quoting my "looks like" which means exactly that.

I am sorry you do not like how things work in the world, but the fact is that secret ops are secret, so no reason for you to run into baby rant. If you do not like that sometimes the truth will not be know, jump to a parallel universe where you are omniscient.

And by the wat, if you insist in judging other's credibility, start providing some sources or you will just be another of the wall-texters trolling here. As of now, you are pretty much at the bottom feeding end of the disinformation effort.

But... to things that actually matter, the breaking of the grain deal and the bombing of grain silos has fired back in the form of attacks on Ruzzian vessels. It seems that insurance costs (or even the possibility of insuring) cuts both ways.

Who is the volunteer to explain to Adolf Putin (thanks for reminding) how a country with no navy is damaging the Ruzzian ships so effectively.

The Wall Street Journal found that the company that rented the boat—a 50-foot pleasure yacht named Andromeda—was founded and controlled by Ukrainians who were Polish residents who used Polish bank accounts and an accountant and paralegal based in Krakow, according to interviews with people familiar with the company and corporate filings.
...
Poland, which is conducting its own, more limited investigation, has known about the role of the company, Feeria Lwowa, since March, Polish officials said. About three weeks ago, investigators visited its registered office in Warsaw for the first time, conducting a brief meeting that lasted only a few minutes
...
“You asked more questions than they did,” an office worker present during the raid told Journal reporters who visited.
...
German investigators have identified some of the six members of the sabotage crew on board the Andromeda. The suspects haven’t been named but investigators say they are Ukrainian citizens.

Dude, can you read?
The article clearly says "investigating the possibility" that it's an "boat tied to Ukrainians".
But no one really has a proof for it.
Of course, you are only interested to quote a story, where "mean Ukraine" has allegedly blown up the pipeline from an "Ukrainian boat".  
Of course, you don't mention that this story has many fallacies:

- Why should Ukraine do it like that, leaving many traces, especially ones, leading to the conclusion that Ukraine is behind it?
- The accused, private sailing boat "Andromeda" (is available for rent) is well suited (not) to do this sort of operation:



- It's totally not possible that Russian officials have ordered their agents to rent the ship, to fabricate the fake evidence to accuse Ukraine and tried to spread this weak story by brainwashed and useful Kremlin trolls like you...  

Maybe add 3 SIM cards (or SIMS 3), rumours are they have been found on the boat, too.  

Doesn't look like a deliberately fabricated Russian attempt to accuse Ukraine for you? Of course not, since you are 100% brainwashed by Russian propaganda...
It's Putins well-known strategy to sow discord, hate and uncertainty among Ukraine's allies...

Nord Stream Sabotage Probe Turns to Clues Inside Poland
...
The probe by Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Office is examining why the yacht they believe was used to carry out the operation journeyed into Polish waters. Other findings suggest Poland was a hub for the logistics and financing of last September’s undersea sabotage attack that severed the strongest bond tying Berlin to Moscow.
...
Taken together, the details show that the boat sailed around each of the locations where the blasts later took place—evidence that fortified investigators’ belief that the Andromeda was instrumental in last year’s destruction of the pipeline.
...
German investigators say they are also looking into why the yacht was rented with the help of a travel agency based in Warsaw that appears to be part of a network of Ukrainian-owned front companies with suspected links to Ukrainian intelligence, according to people familiar with the investigation.
...
Their investigation also found that a white van—sighted in a German port by security cameras and eye witnesses—carried Polish license plates and was used to supply its crew, according to people familiar with the investigation.
...
In mid-May—five months after Berlin had identified the Andromeda—the two sides had what a Polish Justice Ministry official called a working meeting.
...
Investigators first found the yacht following an October tip from a Western intelligence service. The information came from a person in Ukraine who gathers intelligence for a small European country. Officials in that European country have since then questioned why bigger powers with extensive surveillance capabilities and personnel in Ukraine didn’t get wind of the plot on their own—or alert others if they did.

...
Poland, like many of its neighbors as well as the U.S., strongly opposed the Nord Stream pipelines, which they viewed as Russian leader Vladimir Putin’s geopolitical weapon to make Europe dependent on Russian energy.
...
Polish officials have acknowledged the country’s long Baltic coastline, its 320-mile border with Ukraine and its sizable population of Ukrainians offer obvious advantages for individuals staging such an operation. But these officials said the government played no role in the Nord Stream attack.
...
a senior Polish national security official said. “I cannot exclude that some Polish company or whatever is involved in this case.”
...
The blasts created vast bubbling geysers in the Baltic Sea that eventually released more greenhouse gas into the atmosphere than the entire annual emissions of Denmark.
...
Unlike with Poland, Germany has closely cooperated with those and other nations while conducting the probe. They have classified their investigations, with German officials reminded that under law they could face jail time for leaking details.

...
Among the latest findings of the German investigation: The single-mast sloop, loaded with military-grade explosives, sailed south into Polish waters from the Danish island of Christianso.
...
Interviews with those familiar with the Andromeda’s voyage indicate the sabotage crew had finished half of their job, laying deep-sea explosives on Nord Stream 1, the older of the undersea gas pipelines, before they set their Bavaria 50 Cruiser on a course away from their target, toward Poland.
...
What investigators have established is that the Andromeda, which had days before been rented from a German company based close to where the pipelines land, sailed back north in what investigators believe was an effort to complete its task and plant mines on Nord Stream 2, the second key conduit for Russian gas exports.
...
intelligence service of a European country in June 2022. That agency informed the Central Intelligence Agency that a small group of members of Ukraine’s armed forces were planning on sabotaging the pipeline that same month. The CIA passed that warning on to Germany and other allies
...
Immediately after the attack, these officials set their sights on Kyiv.
...
the small European country that had warned the CIA directly passed on detailed information to Germany that helped its investigators to identify the Andromeda, officials familiar with the exchange of information said. Around the same time, CIA director William Burns was asked in a meeting with a European ally whether Ukraine was responsible. “I hope not,” he said, adding that the available evidence didn’t point to Russia, according to an official with the allied country who was in the room at the time.
...
Last month, German investigators took a DNA sample from the soldier’s son, who happens to live with the soldier’s former girlfriend as refugees in the eastern German city of Frankfurt an der Oder.
...
The spokeswoman for the prosecutors in Germany said the investigation was working on obtaining enough evidence to issue international arrest warrants.

Indications of Ukrainian perpetrators are increasing
...
There is also repeated talk of a so-called "false flag" operation by Russia. Among those familiar with the process, this is considered extremely unlikely. Behind the scenes, it was even said that early on that Moscow had no real motive for the crime.
...
Prosecutor Peter Frank are now certain that the sailing yacht "Andromeda" was used for the attack.
...
Fake identification documents were apparently used to hire them.
...
The often-put-up thesis that the assassins could only have brought the explosives to the site of the attack because of its weight with a larger ship and possibly a mini-submarine is then no longer applicable.
...
The traces found by the Federal Criminal Police Office coincide with the assessments of several intelligence services, according to which the originators are to be located in Ukraine. The secret services are now asking whether the deed could have been carried out by an uncontrolled commando or by Ukrainian secret services and to what extent parts of the Ukrainian government apparatus might have been in the know.

There is no irrefutable evidence. You are just stating non-facts without any evidence.

Please notice the "looks like" in my text before you try to accuse me of anything. You do not have any facts because there are no proven facts other than probably some archive somewhere that may be open in 50 years for now... if ever. The difference is that you do make firm statements with no base while I say "looks like".

I think still think there is a very high likelyhood of Ruzzia being behind this. Easy target, lots of damage, right time,...

Western officials no longer suspect Russia of ordering alleged attack against undersea gas pipelines
...

Yes, people voting for that AfD party in 2023 are well aware that it's a fascist party.
In January 2022, their last "moderate" voice in a leading position (Jörg Meuthen, AfD) left AfD because according to Meuthen, AfD is unable to get rid of their fascists and he argued that these fascists have basically taken over the party. Someone from AfD should know their internal idiots.  
And AfD has not just only turned a fascist party, it's has also turned into a Putin asslicker party. So, it's not even a German patriotic party, it's a Russia loving bunch of traitors.  

You just have zero clue about German politics, German history and obviously Ukrainian history as well.
It's always amazing to have dimwits like you talking about German politics.
So, keep embarassing yourself as a clueless Putin troll and fascist friend.  


LOL, you are really clueless how Hitler achieved to destroy the democratic system. He achieved it due to people like you in powerful positions underestimating Hitler and his fascist friends.  
You are so embarassing but let me give you some basic links to educate you about it:
You can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Papen (Binging Hitler into power):


So, it's 1933 again and let's just pretend, AfD is a well-behaving party and let's make a center-right coalition with them, like Franz von Papen did, when he was too naive and helped Hitler to seize power.  
You are so clueless, it really hurts.  




Sure, let's quote again my text from earlier:




It's quite interesting that you are doubling down on your Putin asslicking even if it's making no sense at all.  
We all know it's either Poland, Germany, the US, the UK, France, Sweden or Ukraine but NOT Russia.  

Isn't it embarrassing to defend Russia again and again, while you have already well realized how Russia is a big terrorist state?
Because dude, you know nothing, not about Ukrainian history, not about German history...



It's a mystery why idiots like you are cheering both for
- AfD, a fascist party
- Putin and his criminal regime blowing up his pipeline after it got useless due to Germany not willing to fund Putin's war

Ukraine has exposed the EU’s nationalism
...
Joining the EU meant that the national and popular sovereignty of these countries was immediately constrained. In the medium term, this produced a backlash against the EU, the effects of which we now see in Hungary and Poland.
...
urged Europeans to unite to become a “third force” in international politics and maintain their position of power in the world. Central to this thinking was the idea of Africa as Europe’s “plantation”.
...
many imagined that European integration would overcome not just national sovereignty but sovereignty in general as the EU became a kind of blueprint for global governance
...
The far-Right was rising and the centre-right began to converge with it, especially on questions of identity, immigration and Islam. The policy area where this convergence between the centre-right and the far-Right played out most clearly, and with the most horrific consequences, is immigration.
...
As Human Rights Watch put it recently, the EU’s policy can be summed up in three words: “let them die.”
...
Thus when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, it was inevitably seen as a civilisational Other against which Europe must defend itself.
...
Even as it continued to brutally push back migrants in the Mediterranean, it opened its borders to those fleeing from Ukraine and provided them with extraordinary support.
...
Perhaps the most peculiar feature of the European response, though, is the way that “pro-Europeans” have suddenly embraced a nationalist movement — as the ubiquitousness of Ukrainian flags illustrates. Traditionally, “pro-Europeans” did not distinguish between ethnic-cultural and civic versions of nationalism, but saw all nationalism as a dangerous force.
...
What makes the sudden “pro-European” identification with Ukrainian nationalism even stranger, however, is that it is not just any nationalism. Rather, it has a long history of anti-Semitism which extends from its 16th-century Cossack leader Bohdan Khmelnytsky to Stepan Bandera during the Second World War — both of whom are still venerated in Ukraine. Moreover, after 2014, much of the fighting in the Donbas was done by the Azov Battalion, a neo-Nazi militia that was integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard. Supporters of Ukraine claim that these neo-Nazi elements were later removed. But at least two of the five Azov commanders who Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky recently brought back to Ukraine as heroes are neo-Nazis who go back to the founding of Azov.
...
much bigger questions, such as whether, once in the EU, Ukraine would become a larger version of Hungary and Poland.

Ukraine and its supporters worry about losing control of the narrative
...
government in Kyiv is waging a different kind of battle abroad, trying to shape how the world perceives its counteroffensive.
...
Some U.S. officials privately expressed disappointment that the Ukrainians have appeared to hold back on deploying some of their most well-equipped and trained units, and that they have not necessarily applied the training principles they received. “There is a frustration that they have not used more of the combat power that they have,” one U.S. official said.
...
Another senior administration official said the Biden administration and U.S. allies have given Ukraine everything it requested for the counteroffensive, including 500 tanks and hundreds of armored vehicles.
...
“We are confident that they have significant combat capability available to them...” Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder told reporters Thursday.
...
brigade commander had pursued direct assaults during the counteroffensive in hopes of a swift victory. The army sent infantry and armored units to attack the Russian lines across uncleared minefields and without suppressing enemy fire. The brigades were shredded by opposing forces, and the commanders were severely criticized internally for the unnecessary losses.
...
Volodymyr Zelenskyy...said they waited “because, frankly, we had not enough munitions and armaments and not enough properly trained brigades.”
...
Now, breaking through Russian lines across the dense minefields in the east and the south will almost certainly inflict high casualties on Ukrainian troops, U.S. officials and experts said.
...
There is a danger that “there might be the narrative of stalemate or the narrative of a failed Ukrainian counteroffensive,” he said.
...
“We have launched a counteroffensive without any kind of air superiority — not in the air force, not in drones, not in helicopters. We have a little bit in terms of precision-guided artillery munitions,” said Polyakov, who works for a military think tank advising Zelenskyy. “But to talk about holding back without all these necessary components, it is ludicrous.”
...
But there has been no significant change in the front lines in the war for the past nine months. Both Ukrainian and Russian forces have failed to achieve major advances, and Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corp think tank, argues that neither side has a realistic chance of scoring a definitive victory. As a result, the U.S. should start preparing for an inconclusive outcome and explore options for an eventual diplomatic settlement, he said.
“It’s an indication of where things are going. There’s not going to be a decisive military outcome,” Charap said.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia
Most Americans oppose Congress authorizing additional funding to support Ukraine in its war with Russia,
...
Overall, 55% say the US Congress should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine vs. 45% who say Congress should authorize such funding. And 51% say that the US has already done enough to help Ukraine while 48% say it should do more. A poll conducted in the early days of the Russian invasion in late February 2022 found 62% who felt the US should have been doing more.
Partisan divisions have widened since that poll, too, with most Democrats and Republicans now on opposing sides of questions on the US role in Ukraine.
...
When asked specifically about types of assistance the US could provide to Ukraine, there is broader support for help with intelligence gathering (63%) and military training (53%) than for providing weapons (43%), alongside very slim backing for US military forces to participate in combat operations (17%).
...
Republicans broadly say that Congress should not authorize new funding (71%) and that the US has done enough to assist Ukraine (59%). Among Democrats, most say the opposite, 62% favor additional funding and 61% say that the US should do more.
...
Independents mostly say the US has done enough to help Ukraine (56%) and that they oppose additional funding (55%).
...
There’s an even larger partisan gap over providing weapons to Ukraine, with 61% of Democrats behind that compared with 39% of independents and just 30% of Republicans.

Americans Are Turning Against Ukraine Joining NATO
Support among U.S. voters for Ukraine joining NATO has gone down in the last three months
...
in 2020 conducted on April 5 with a 2.53 percent margin of error, just over half of respondents (55 percent) said that Kyiv should join the alliance.
...
a survey conducted on July 25 and 26 of the same size sample of voters, with the same margin of error, found that backing for Ukraine's membership of NATO had diminished. Support for Ukraine's membership had gone down by eight percentage points—to 47 percent, with 23 percent "strongly" supporting the move, and 29 percent neutral.
...
The proportion of those opposing Ukrainian membership of NATO went up by six percent, to 16 percent

...

Oh, yes, let's not tiptoe... do you condemn Ruzzian attacks in schools, restaurants, civilian buildings including churches, hospitals, entertainment and shopping places?

...
Blowing the Nord Stream II looks like the RF army doing to kind of "make a point" on regards to EU aid and aligns well with a country that is under a Junta.

In my view, this is an act of war. The Orc army could have chosen any other target right? A bridge in France, a factory in Germany... Why do you think they would hit NS II? The answer is very simple: it is not in NATO territory and does not grant a NATO mobilisation which would end any expectation of even a technical "victory" in the invasion.

Now, what does YOUR critical thinking tell you about this?