The darkcoin profit taking theory appears to be corroborated by the rally in shadowcash.
Does anyone know if shadowcash is actively developed? Is there much evidence that the dev(s) are serious about their project?
They certainly put in the marketing effort. But I would guess most of us are disinclined to bother with a 2 week instamine PoW-> PoS coin. I picked up 10 dollars worth today just in case  . I like the rhetoric, im a big fan of proof of stake, pow is clearly the best way to distribute stake (though 2 weeks is disturbing), on the off chance they deliver on it 10 dollars with this early will likely be sufficient. Part of the nice thing about instamines is that the devs have a lot of incentive to make their project valuable. |
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jurisdiction of the NSA  thats a good one. a regular knee slapper. |
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^ Pretty much what equipoise said. We looked at AT and saw a lot more challenges integrating it with Monero compared to btc-style coins.
That doesn't mean we aren't interested in more powerful transaction facilities, but its bit much to take on right now. Of course, it is an open source project and if others want to do the work we'll consider including it.
Unfortunate but thats the nature of the beast i suppose. It would be hard to do advanced scripting on an opaque blockchain. Can somebody please elaborate? Does a view key play a necessary role in implementing AT with Monero? Or how could it work? Could Zerocash be used with AT? It wouldn't really help because in order for scripting to work you need everyone in the network to be able to analyze your scripts to see if they resolve true. We would need a different type of transaction. A fully transparent transaction type. This would be difficult to do without having negative externalities for the privacy of other users. Someone smarter than me feel free to correct me but this is my understanding. |
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is this project still being actively developed? how many devs are there? how may hours a day about do they spend working on it? what are their credentials?
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^ Pretty much what equipoise said. We looked at AT and saw a lot more challenges integrating it with Monero compared to btc-style coins.
That doesn't mean we aren't interested in more powerful transaction facilities, but its bit much to take on right now. Of course, it is an open source project and if others want to do the work we'll consider including it.
Unfortunate but thats the nature of the beast i suppose. It would be hard to do advanced scripting on an opaque blockchain. |
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Ethereum launch is getting closer and closer. If they gain enough liquidity and allow xmr/btc decentralized exchange then I can imagine lot of dirty bitcoins are going to seek a new home in a safe exchange for always untainted new anonymous crypto like Monero. Ethereum if successful could really increase the global liquidity in the whole crypto once people are allowed to trade without the counter party and security risk of centralized exchanges. It would mean increasing the velocity of money which leads to inflation. Altcoins should rise. Correct thinking? I guess Monero and Ethereum is still a bit a distant future but this could be a closer future (mercury exchange) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946174.0Does monero allow for the sort of scripting necessary to do atomic transactions? |
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Humour, lads, it's humour! If its actually funny, than it went way of my head . |
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This interviewer is ssssllllllooooowwww. Good lord how hard is it to understand the concept of running one node and multiple wallets. It probably makes him a good interviewer since a lot of the listeners aren't particularly technically inclined but man that was hard to listen to. Anyway thanks for the link. 4hours of conversation with the devs. Very glad you linked this. |
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reminder: there is a button on the lower right that can be used to report off-topic posts.
Please use it when posts are actually off topic or otherwise violate forum rules (and only then)
Oh come on. You are kidding right? Report to moderators? Maybe if they are spamming uncontrollably. But how old are we? We are supposed to "taddle tale" on people to the "grown ups"? I know this thread is a whole lot of fun right now but let's not forget it has a purpose of discussing Monero. If the post isn't discussing Monero (could be positive or negative doesn't matter) it doesn't belong here. That's not just spamming but it could include spamming. EDIT: But if people will restrain themselves and not post off topic stuff such as a list of threads about another coin and talk of hypothetical abuse of the trust system obviously intended to intimidate, the moderators need not be bothered. This thread is NOT a whole lot of fun right now. ^^ that sorry  im sure thats mostly or atleast partly my fault |
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reminder: there is a button on the lower right that can be used to report off-topic posts.
Please use it when posts are actually off topic or otherwise violate forum rules (and only then)
Oh come on. You are kidding right? Report to moderators? Maybe if they are spamming uncontrollably. But how old are we? We are supposed to "taddle tale" on people to the "grown ups"? |
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Moderate to low. wow smooth. really? why do you say that? is the project not worthy? or do you just have little to no trust in the market? do you think something better will surpass both of us? or do you think no one will ever catch on to drk and it will become the privacy centric altcoin that everyone uses on the dark market? if that than do you think there are flaws in it that will allow everyone's identity to be uncovered some day? a lot of elaboration on this comment would be nice. You got him in a good mood, last time he said it will all go to zero I guess hes right now that i think about it. I told my mom to invest in bitcoin back in 2011 and she didnt listen. I told her then that it probably would go to 0 but that the expected roi was posative, sort of like a lottery ticket for smart people. I told her again with nxt and she didnt listen again. I was right about both. I told her that this was her third opportunity, and i told her again that it probably would go to 0 but had a positive expected return on investment. it probably wont succeed for a million reasons. but im still convinced it has a very strong posative expected ROI despite this fact. And of course, it goes without saying, it deserves to succeed. good thing im a gambling man. i want to be wealthy so badly. Thank you for words of encouragement. The way we can do larger adoption than DRK is to bring it to the hands that are not involved into crypto. This brings fresh cash to the markets and probably those people are for the long haul since often they may not even own a computer(!!!!). I guess you could convince your mother to invest only a small amount (like 100-1000 usd). This probably will not hurt her if she loses it completely. i went ahead and made her a wallet, wrote the mnemonic on a piece of paper, gave her the piece of paper, and told her to hand me cash any time she liked and i would convert it and put it on that key. interested to see if she ever decides to hand me that cash. she makes a lot of money but spreads her self so thin. im not hopeful. |
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Moderate to low. wow smooth. really? why do you say that? is the project not worthy? or do you just have little to no trust in the market? do you think something better will surpass both of us? or do you think no one will ever catch on to drk and it will become the privacy centric altcoin that everyone uses on the dark market? if that than do you think there are flaws in it that will allow everyone's identity to be uncovered some day? a lot of elaboration on this comment would be nice. You got him in a good mood, last time he said it will all go to zero I guess hes right now that i think about it. I told my mom to invest in bitcoin back in 2011 and she didnt listen. I told her then that it probably would go to 0 but that the expected roi was posative, sort of like a lottery ticket for smart people. I told her again with nxt and she didnt listen again. I was right about both. I told her that this was her third opportunity, and i told her again that it probably would go to 0 but had a positive expected return on investment. it probably wont succeed for a million reasons. but im still convinced it has a very strong posative expected ROI despite this fact. And of course, it goes without saying, it deserves to succeed. good thing im a gambling man. i want to be wealthy so badly. |
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Moderate to low. wow smooth. really? why do you say that? is the project not worthy? or do you just have little to no trust in the market? do you think something better will surpass both of us? or do you think no one will ever catch on to drk and it will become the privacy centric altcoin that everyone uses on the dark market? if that than do you think there are flaws in it that will allow everyone's identity to be uncovered some day? a lot of elaboration on this comment would be nice. |
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It wasnt a name calling contest. It was a discussion of the tech.
really? Compare this statement: --------------------------- The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so god damn inelegant. Its like instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.
Its just so god damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.
--------------------------- with this statement --------------------------- Coins need to be mixed so you guys implement coinjoin at the protocol level. But then you cant just have every random user hosting coinjoin sessions because then you would open an attack vector for troll coinjoin hosts so you make master nodes. But then you cant just have anyone joining in the coinjoin because you could dos by requesting transactions but not signing so you implement the idea of collateral to be part of the session. But then now you have no incentive for the masternodes to form so you give them part of the collateral. It wouldnt be mixed enough if you did this at the transaction level so you have the blockchain tumbling peoples coins all the time. This is ridiculously expensive so you greatly subsidize the darksend transactions inorder to hide the huge cost of anonymity in your system. Now you have to worry about people trying to send transactions to each other through darksend so you have to try to come up with some clever mechanism to avoid this problem.
Its just like I described in my post. Plugging up the first hole but then new ones appear so you try to plug those up. Its an analogy of course but, in my mind, its an apt one and there is certainly reasons behind it. it wasn't just senseless name calling.
see the difference? BTW, your revised explanation is VERY inaccurate. I am quite certain that it misses and misrepresents some of the details. But i think the general point that i was trying to make holds. And yes i guess you do have a point. Perhaps i could have explained more in the post, but it wasn't intended to get into all of the details, and i didn't want to make it too long. People dont read posts that are too long. I was prepared to explain my reasoning as soon as someone from drk challenged it. And that way it would be broken into a few smaller posts which might actually be read. No one ever challenged it though, which is, again, part of the reason i came soliciting in your thread. But again, i never acted like a troll in your thread. And the comment we are discussing was made in a place where it was appropriate. You guys should have MUCH thinker skins than you do. That doesn't really apply to you either. You seem pretty cool. |
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Yet you post that language in a "neutral" thread and invite DRK posters to read it? Can you tell me why you are surprised by the reaction? It wasn't trolling for me to invite you guys to come there and argue against comments like mine. A comment that i couldnt have you argue against in your thread because i didnt and wouldnt post something like that there. Because im not a troll! You invite DRK posters to participate in a name calling contest? Why not discuss the tech? It wasnt a name calling contest. It was a discussion of the tech. Coins need to be mixed so you guys implement coinjoin at the protocol level. But then you cant just have every random user hosting coinjoin sessions because then you would open an attack vector for troll coinjoin hosts so you make master nodes. But then you cant just have anyone joining in the coinjoin because you could dos by requesting transactions but not signing so you implement the idea of collateral to be part of the session. But then now you have no incentive for the masternodes to form so you give them part of the collateral. It wouldnt be mixed enough if you did this at the transaction level so you have the blockchain tumbling peoples coins all the time. This is ridiculously expensive so you greatly subsidize the darksend transactions inorder to hide the huge cost of anonymity in your system. Now you have to worry about people trying to send transactions to each other through darksend so you have to try to come up with some clever mechanism to avoid this problem. Its just like I described in my post. Plugging up the first hole but then new ones appear so you try to plug those up. Its an analogy of course but, in my mind, its an apt one and there is certainly reasons behind it. it wasn't just senseless name calling. |
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Yet you post that language in a "neutral" thread and invite DRK posters to read it? Can you tell me why you are surprised by the reaction? It wasn't trolling for me to invite you guys to come there and argue against comments like mine. A comment that i couldnt have you argue against in your thread because i didnt and wouldnt post something like that there. Because im not a troll! |
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Yet you post that language in a "neutral" thread and invite DRK posters to read it? Can you tell me why you are surprised by the reaction?
Its a neutral thread in the sense that both critics of monero and critics of dark are equally welcome there. its not neutral in the sense that there is some sort of implicit guarantee that no one will ever make a comment negative of one or the other project and that we will all hold hands and sing kumbaya. |
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THIS is what got basically everyone to ignore me. How can people possibly be this delicate? Ive been on this forum since 2010 and i have a total of 14 people on my ignore list, since 2010! I cant even imagine how many people are on the ignore list of people THIS sensitive. (interestingly icebreaker is one of the lucky 14)
I don't think so. This is what rubbed people the wrong way (bolding is mine): So I guess I'll get this thing started.
The problem that i see with dark is not necessarily whether it works or not. This criticism applies even if it does work. My big problem, and the reason I didn't buy it a long time ago even though I was shopping for anonymity focused projects, is that its just so god damn inelegant. Its like instead of approaching the problem from a fresh perspective and inventing something novel and clever, the devs decided to take the whack a mole approach. You whack the first problem over the head with a blunt instrument, this creates more problems, and you whack those over the head with another bunt instrument, thus creating more problems. The way i picture it in my head, and we see this in cartoons sometimes, someone is trying to stop a hose from spraying so they stick their thumb in the hole, the pressure builds up and water sprays out of another hole somewhere, and they stick their toe in that hole, then water erupts from somewhere else and they stick their other thumb in that hole. This is all I could picture in my head while hearing a description of dark for the first time.
Its just so god damned ugly. Maybe it works, but even if it does it's a vulgar solution to the problem, where as ring signatures and unlikable deterministic addresses is so beautiful and elegant and simple. Reading the white paper for the first time I was just struck with the beauty and elegance of the approach.
That's really all I have to say. Also I just want to put this here. My nomination for dark mascot.
I'm sure if you EXPLAIN how these statements are supposed to be viewed... Whats to explain. Thats how i feel about your project. Yes I'm on the monero side, that's no secret, but i never said anything negative about your project in your own house. I never said what you linked or anything even remotely like what you linked in your thread. I wouldn't be disrespectful like that. You wouldn't argue that having disagreements with your project innately makes me a troll even though i never expressed them even once in your thread, would you? |
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They all have me blocked but I did nothing that could be construed as trolling.
That says a lot right there. This is it. If there is someone here who can defend dark on this particular point: Can we talk about this instant transaction thing. How does it supposedly work? In the world of crypto there are only 2 ways of doing transactions instantly. A trust based system or centralization. Has dark somehow over turned the metaphorical laws of gravity in the world of crypto or do they use one of those two. If they use one of those two what is the justification?
The masternodes lock the tx, even if a conflicting valid transaction gets mined they reject the block its in. This opens a nice sort of attack where you can split the network (i.e. isolating MNs from each other) You would be very welcome in our xmr vs drk discussion thread. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642 It's fair and open and moderator is only deleting obvious troll posts. Lol. Another one? Sorry but I'll pass on that xmr PR thread. If you want to know about drk ask around on darkcointalk or check the github repository. Its only an xmr pr thread because no one has come forward to competently defend your position. The moment someone does this, assuming your position has merit, than it could very easily be transformed into a dark pr thread. The point is to have open troll free discussion from both sides, im here as an emissary because we are distinctly lacking in the dark representative department. But there certainly is no lock, no means of filtering dark representatives out, its yours for the taking if you can take it. THIS is what got basically everyone to ignore me. How can people possibly be this delicate? Ive been on this forum since 2010 and i have a total of 14 people on my ignore list, since 2010! I cant even imagine how many people are on the ignore list of people THIS sensitive. (interestingly icebreaker is one of the lucky 14) |
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the answer is absolutely not.
k. well once again thanks for taking the time to reply to my OP. There you have it : it's never ever going to happen. Zero flexibility  Honestly. I probably am not capable of critiquing his paper in any meaningful way. That's the only reason I declined. I simply am not as knowledgeable or intelligent as a lot of people here (especially in the development and technical discussion section). One thing I do know is how nxt works because I put a lot of work into it and so I am capable of discussing the problem from that particular angle. He wasn't interested in that though, so there isnt much i can offer here. |
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