As I see it, you have two choices:
1. Stay here, continue to act like schoolchildren. Let me deal with you accordingly, and watch the price of your investment plummet.
2. Leave, and allow Dash to continue defining ourselves, as you have had the pleasure of doing for two years.
Either way, you will not control the narrative about Dash. Dash has already defined itself. Here's the definition: The facts speak for themselves. You are the only one obsessed with spinning those facts to "control the narrative." Dash's "Instamined Scam Coin" narrative is already set in stone. Tone Vays just realized what Debora Meeks over a year ago: Tok said cryptography 'wasn't a significant part' of cryptocurrencies. He didn't say they don't require them, so what was your point?
Can you (or Tok) point to a part of a cryptocurrency which isn't cryptography? Cryptography has never been a significant part of cryptocurrency - even though it may share the first few letters. It works on a system of digital signatures.
It would seem that you actually do not understand what cryptography is in the modern sense. A fundamental nature of information is that it wants to be freely copied everywhere to everyone. That any bit is equal and indistinguishable from any other bit of the same value and that any bit is eventually known to all who care. Cryptography is all that technology by which we hope to confine and constrain the nature of information, to put up fences and direct it to our exclusive purposes, against all attacks and in defiance of the seemingly (and perhaps actually) impossible. Digital signatures are cryptography by any modern definition and utilize the same tools and techniques (for example, a DSA signature is a linear equation encrypted with an additively homorphic encryption), and suffer from most of the same challenges as the message encryption systems to which you seem to be incorrectly defining cryptography as equivalent. Moreover, the use of digital signatures isn't the only (or even most relevant) aspect of cryptography in cryptocurrencies-- e.g. the prevention of double spending of otherwise perfectly copyable and indistinguishable information in a decentralized system is a cryptographic problem which we address using cryptographic tools, and-- like all other practical cryptography-- achieve far less than perfect confidence in our solution. As are more modest ends like interacting with strangers but not being subject to resource exhaustion from them. Far more so than other sub-fields of engineering, cryptographic systems are doing something which is fundamentally at odds with nature and share an incredible fragility and subtly as a result (and perhaps all are failures, we have no proof otherwise). A failure to understand and respect these considerations has resulted in a lot of harmful garbage and dysfunctional software.
I don't know if I'll ever buy Monero but I do know that Dash is perfectly described by gmaxwell in the post above: a lot of harmful garbage and dysfunctional software. My Dash is going to be sold over the next few days. I refuse to a cryptocurrency where the fanboys imagine that cryptography is uneccessary. What a stupid thing to say. I suggest the Dash boys go read a book on crypto before they come back to this thread. They're embarassing themselves and they're embarrasing Evan Duffield. There's a very, very small chance Evan can come into this thread and respond to andytoshi and gmaxwell and redeem Dash from the mess these idiots have made...but I'm not holding my breath. |
|
|
|
Betteridge's law of headlines is an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." |
|
|
|
Dash supporters have played an integral role in bad mouthing and outright lying or attempting to use intimidation to silence critics. I would know as one of of the dash supporters attempted to use one of those tactics on me, which did not work.
Which dash supporter did that? Dish, homegirl, dish!  |
|
|
|
@ICEBREAKER
There's a difference between Maidsafecoin and Safecoin which you don't get. Maidsafecoin was the "proxy coin" for the crowdsale. Safecoin will be implemented on the SAFE Network. And for Safecoin no blockchain is used. So when you send your Maidsafecoin to an address provided by Maidsafe, they'll send you your Safecoin over the SAFE Network. Another option probably is that exchanges like Poloniex will do the switch. Once on Safenet no one can trace any coins back to you. There's no blockchain on that system. No way to send a request and see which address has how many coins. You could make 150 new addresses in your wallet all owned by you an nobody has a clue who the owner is. You could even make a temporarily account on SAFE just to get the coins. Once you have them you send them to your real account and nobody has a clue you did it. How can you simply assert there are no privacy issues involved in this complicated chain of tokens and addresses? Has this sophisticated scheme been vetted by any reputable crypto experts? What do LukeJr and Peter Todd think? |
|
|
|
So you are just trolling and fudding around here. Not really a clue what you are talking about. Hope you are enjoying it.
Sorry I misspoke. Where I said SafeCoin I meant to write MaidsafeCoin. There are so many layers of kludge it's confusing.  Let's try it again: MaidsafeCoin is bound to SafeCoin via a Rube Goldberg layer of chutes and ladders that may leak privacy. Of course you'd rather talk up Safenet's internals than address concerns about the anonymity of the payment interface. Other than some vague reference to people at universities, are any well known cypherpunks reviewing the SafeCoin<->MaidsafeCoin scheme? Since people's lives might depend on that scheme being untraceable/unlinkable/private, I don't understand the resentment towards scrutiny. Unless you're only here for the pump and dump.... |
|
|
|
From the OP, back when Polo needed us: Trading fees are 0.2%, and they will never be raised.
I will monitor this thread and respond to your questions and feedback. Now: Following the TROLLBOX chat discussion on Poloniex yesterday it seems that according to OldManKidd this thread is no longer actively maintained by Poloniex  Your current maker/taker fee is 0.15/0.25% Busoni Gone Hollywood!  When he puts up an ETH/XMR pair, I will forgive him.  |
|
|
|
MAID's old tech is being hyped by bolting on some trendy "MOAR BLOCKCHAIN" stuff via a Rube Goldberg layer of SafeCoin rigmarole. What on earth are you talking about? Safenet won't use a blockchain. I make a point about SafeCoin's (possibly risky) use of Bitcoin's public blockchain, and you talk about Safenet.  Safenet is bound to SafeCoin via a Rube Goldberg layer of chutes and ladders that may leak privacy. Of course you'd rather talk up Safenet's internals than address concerns about the anonymity of the payment interface. Other than some vague reference to people at universities, are any well known cypherpunks reviewing the SafeCoin<->SafeNet scheme? Since people's lives might depend on that scheme being untraceable/unlinkable/private, I don't understand the resentment towards scrutiny. Unless you're only here for the pump and dump.... |
|
|
|
{argumentum ad hominem}
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070519155250AAgk18U"Do you believe that Duffentology would not have such a bad rap if they did not have such loud verbal assaults on anyone who raises any type of criticism?" Best Answer: Oh no no no, Duffentology would still be horrible. I mean, it would be a fair measure better without the "Fair Game" policy, but it would still be a destructive, scamming, greedy, brainwashing cult. Check out the rest of Duffentology's sordid past and misdeeds: Instamine Emission cut Bad crypto Broken CoinJoin Broken GreenAddress Snake oil marketing Masternode HYIP Centralized DARKCOIN FOUNDATION INC. Bus Factor = 1 |
|
|
|
I'm not arguing about the instamine. It happened. A lot of coins were mined in the first 48 hours. That is a fact. Did Evan mine all of them? Impossible to say. Did Evan deliberately perpetrate a scam? No evidence has been presented to back that up. You sure spend a lot of time arguing about the instamine for someone who claims they're "not arguing about the instamine."  |
|
|
|
I don't think there's any point in arguing about the instamine.
Some people have a problem with it and some don't.
Simple as that. Some people don't have a problem with Dash's instamine until they learn the facts and realize it was intentional, not accidental. We understand you'd rather Dash's instamine issue be ignored and drop off the radar, but it's still highly relevant to under-informed, misguided Dash supporters who may change their mind once in possession of all the facts. Tone Vays is a high profile example of such a person. Rest assured there are others, and we will continue reaching out to them in an attempt to educate regarding Dash's "accidental" instamine fraud. It's funny how you tried to play cult enforcer and browbeat Tone into staying in the Evan's Gate compound, only to have everyone laugh at you.  |
|
|
|
ice i dont know your issue but wtf mate, MAID aiming for something good here...the fuck is your issue? did u work for them and they fired you or some shit? you obviously have issues. if you fud at least do it on true shit coins from scam devs or something. thus far MAID seems to have solid work (takes bloody long yes) but also bots/eyes on it with steady vol's at each major exch.
not sure i guess you're in monero? i've made money on that just like i hope to with maid, playing swings because monero is manipulated just as much (if not more). and honestly i dont know much about it but it seems like nothing special to me. well maybe something special about it but using it? lol fuck that...useless real world from what i see. i wont be using MAID either unless they come thru, but anyway...they could use MORE updates here yes.
you need to go get a hooker or something and some crack, chill the fuck out. i mean not sure if your fud is doing anything but whatever, cheap coins for some of us. i dont think you're "holding it down" so i dont have to say "stop fudding you're killing my chances at making money" cos if/when MAID moons it'll be without you apparently.
I've got 3 issues. 1. MAID is ancient Kad-based tech that still can't do what Freenet did 15 years ago, yet aspires to charge for the same services and presumed to collect IPO money for vaporware development. 2. MAID's old tech is being hyped by bolting on some trendy "MOAR BLOCKCHAIN" stuff via a Rube Goldberg layer of SafeCoin rigmarole. 3. Inquires about issues 1 & 2 are met with hostility, speculation about motivations, personal attacks, and very little technical disclosure. Now I've answered your question, please address one of mine. Do you feel MAID is by default automatically due respect, or should it be forced to earn respect by demonstrated real-world utility? |
|
|
|
Still stuck in the past Smooth? No one gives a damn
The trolls drag up the past over and over old news, practically pre-historic in the timeline of crypto and only a very small number of posters seem to give a damn Those of us who lived through 8 years of Clinton administration scandals are very familiar with their tried and true "it's old news" defense. When you use the "water under the bridge" deflection in response to criticisms of Dash, this is what I imagine: And the Instamine (even at this point) does make a difference. Just ask former Dash supporter Tone Vays. |
|
|
|
Many projects richly deserve FUD. Neucoin. Paycoin. Cryptsy. Dash. Maid. Don't like that? Too bad. GFY and CRY MOAR PLZ.  How is your precious coin now, my brother. People are reading your fud and dumping your coin right now. Not a good move ai? You were asked to stop being a child. And you were asked respectfully. Why does an intelligent man need to include this ^^^ kind of pathetic nonsense? |
|
|
|
5 people is not a "multitude of developers." Paycoin and GAW had more than 5 devs. A soda machine isn't going to fix Dash's instamine-centralized top-heavy distribution and bad crypto (even if you pay a sex worker to stand in front of it). But congrats on finally realizing raging and attacking Dash's critics won't win any new converts for the Evan's Gate cargo cult. It only took you two years to get a clue and start up the rah-rah-rah happy talk tactics! Why take such a hostile tone? Why exaggerate the past, and insult Dash supporters? Are you trying to change mimds, or just here to stir up a fight? I don't change minds; the facts about Dash's fully intentional "accidental" instamine change minds. Go ahead and distract everyone with your tone police act. Keep trying to divert attention away from the instamine by playing the victim. That hasn't worked in the last two years, and isn't going to start working now. Tone Vays is only the beginning. His thought leadership will diffuse out to the rest of the crypto ecosystem, and Dash will go the way of Paycoin. Duffield is no Satoshi. He's really more of a Josh Garza. |
|
|
|
Someone dumped too hard, and broke Poloniex.
Pls don't joke around... I have way too many coins on polo for that to be funny. Perhaps Polo should worry less about people trolling in the troll box and worry more about keeping their site online. Or maybe they took the exchange down for maintenance because they are adding an ETH/XMR pair.  |
|
|
|
The Dash project is far more than just Evan Duffield. There are a multitude of developers, all working with their strengths, to provide infrastructure for Dash. The problem is the base technology is there, but Dash has a huge network effect to overcome. Evolution, being led by Andy Freer, will provide the tool needed for Dash to chip away at Bitcoin's marketcap through ease of use. Other pertinent developers: MooCowMoo: Dashvend (used in the www.dashndrink.com InstantX Soda Machine) which is our software to help retailers accept Dash InstantX payments in a retail environment UdjinM6: Core Developer who has fixed a number of issues Flare: He has provided invaluable organizational aspects to Dash, and helps to improve the protocol too. FullTimeGeek: Working on DashPay Android Wallets QuantumExplorer: Working on DashPay iOS Wallets and many more. So, as anyone can see Dash Nation is blessed with a great team working together in tandem to bring Satoshi's true digital cash to the masses. Through Dash's decentralized governance system (which Evan gave up a lot of power by creating by the way) we are moving forward with initiatives in development, marketing, fiat onboarding, and discovery at the same time. It will be a struggle, to be sure, but it's one that we are more than ready to tackle. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to explain that to the thread readers, iCEBREAKER. You and I are going to make a great team! 5 people is not a "multitude of developers." Paycoin and GAW had more than 5 devs. A soda machine isn't going to fix Dash's instamine-centralized top-heavy distribution and bad crypto (even if you pay a sex worker to stand in front of it). But congrats on finally realizing raging and attacking Dash's critics won't win any new converts for the Evan's Gate cargo cult. It only took you two years to get a clue and start up the rah-rah-rah happy talk tactics! |
|
|
|
|
For the OP.
5. The burden of proof is negative. EG, if Duffield claims Dash is secure/private/decentralized, we must by default automatically presume those claims are true, until some kind of "smoking gun" proves otherwise.
6. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. This follows from (5). EG, if nobody has bothered to break Darksend/InstantX, we much take that as evidence they are impossible to break and never will be broken.
7. Narratives are controlled by iCEBREAKER, not the facts of the matter. EG, Tone Vays is no longer of sound mind, as demonstrated by Evil iCEBREAKER's hacking into his brain with nanobots and voodoo.
|
|
|
|
I appreciate your entertaining posts iCEBREAKER. They prove your dizzying intellect. You add color to the thread, and for that I thank you. As I've said in the OP, you will not be allowed to "control" the narrative about Dash.
Evan is in fact a brilliant man. And he's charming, enthusiastic and driven to help Dash Nation build the Internet Of Money.
You school-yard bullies and your spin and name-calling have had your day. The facts prevail.
I'm flattered you see me as some kind of warlock or mutant with mind control abilities powerful enough to change Tone Vays's internal mental structures. But it's actually nothing more than plain old (albeit damning) facts controlling Dash's unfortunate narrative. You may try to spin those facts as merely the product of some random internet poster's psychic powers, but I'm not Professor X. So yes there is ideology behind this coin : privacy, liberty, freedom, try to make the world less directed by "power" and more with the heart...
I hope that changing the name will not make the ideology behind it change too, otherwhise it will failed.
There's no ideology in something that nobody uses. The ideology's in the design, not the name. Vertoe is justified in leaving over not being consulted but less so over 'ideology'. It's not a rock song that's being built here it's electronic money. The name can easily be compromised without any loss of principle but the functionality can't. So Evan has got his priorities right in that regard. no. i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following. the path to total financial privacy. and thats why i am so upset about how this currency is lead by a single person. darkcoin is like an old conservative company with strong hierarchical comamnd structures and a single person on the top of the pyramid. evan duffield. the rebranding using a detergent name was just a step forward in creating something like apple or paypal. fuck this i tell you. what we need is a trustless, decentralized and anonymous currency. darkcoin is not decentralized as it still relies on a single person. and this reaches deep into the code base. the core devs were just a bunch of volunteers exploited for the big thing. the extended darkcoin team was the same with even a lower place to sit on that pyramid. and what was the darkcoin foundation again? right, something to reserve some rights on some names and collect money. who nominated and voted for the foundation board? who does even know who are these guys? how did we learn about the foundation? from local news papers! the team listings kept counting names of people nobody ever noticed before. and they never committed anything visible to the community or the repository. and i was spending 25 hours a day monitory everything that happened in the darkcoin community for more than a year. the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity. i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be. if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning? |
|
|
|
This thread is going to get off to a rocky start, to be sure, we've sure stirred up a hornet's nest. The school-boy bullies have for TWO YEARS been allowed to frame the narrative about Dash. They will not give up that "control", as iCEBREAKER so eloquently put it in my Internet of Money article thread, easily without a fight. That is expected.
I'm of the opinion that they've been threatened by Dash for a long time, due to its superior technology and cohesive, professional team. And to their credit, they have done a fantastic job making Evan Duffield look like a "scammer", a person who premeditatively decided to mine all of the Dash for himself and make himself insanely rich, all the while laughing at all of the poor folks who would fall victim to his evil plans.
But then something happened. I saw a podcast the other day with Tone Vays from Liberty Life Trail. On this podcast, he said that he used to believe in Dash, but then he was enlightened by the very "facts" we are debating today. The very unsubstantiated spin and innuendo that has been allowed to permeate through the cryptosphere since Dash's rocky start.
Something stirred in me that day.
I vowed that this would not be allowed to continue. To me, and anyone who has been following the Dash project as someone posted earlier, Dash is a professional, driven, and ambitious project, and you can see that through the innovations that the Dash team comes up with. Dash Nation has every right to be proud, to confidently tell outsiders that we are working on true decentralization, from the transactions, to the governance, to the funding. We are the only project that can say those things, and the closest to fulfilling Satoshi's vision of a true decentralized digital cash, the Internet of Money.
This is the subject of this thread, and it will not go away. Our promises and breakthroughs will be documented here, for all to see on a regular basis. The days of school-boy bullies dominating the narrative about Dash are over.
To those who may have been influenced by the spin and innuendo, I ask you for your attention over time. I invite you to join Dash Nation, but I realize it will take time to free people from the deceit of a few individuals.
I ask for your eyes and ears, Dash will show you what it's all about over time. Allow us to define our own identity.
Respectfully,
Tao (Dash Nation Campaign Founder)
EDIT: To any capable devs who may want to help us build the Internet Of Money, a fun graphic for you, by Dash Nation member Raptor73 Tone Vays is right, Dash's instamine is proof of scam as much as proof of incompetency. You can try to spin it, but facts are stubborn things. Only systems that are structurally incompatible with fraud don't suffer from the overhang of potential fraud. Dash is not a viable system because it was cursed from the moment it was created with a fatal birth defect called an instamine. You are such a Try Hard it's kind of hilarious. You remind me of the XT and Classic buffoons who believed they could make a contentious hard fork happen if they Tried Hard enough. Stop trying to make Dash happen. Dash isn't going to happen. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
![[500k/1st hr, 2MM/1st day]](https://i.imgur.com/dSe9cRz.jpg){kind=link}
