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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9592822 times)
DrkLvr_
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November 19, 2015, 05:42:17 PM

I'm loving these last few pages. Vitalik is finding out that anybody who dares speak a negative word about Monero gets immediately flamed by all the Monero shills and trolls.

Two points:

a) It's becoming obvious that the Monero trolls live in a glass house. Monero had its own issuance problems, with one guy receiving between 50% and 90% of all the coins in the first three months. Is it the current Monero team's fault? No, probably not. They inherited the broken miner and fixed it as soon as they were able. Did it ultimately affect the early distribution of the coin? Yes.

This does not bother me personally. Mistakes happen, and as long as they are corrected as quickly as possible, I'm fine with it. But by the standards that Icebreaker, AdamWhite, TheDasher, and others pro-Monero trolls use, then Monero is a scam coin. These gentlemen (or ladies) believe that Dash is a scam because of an "unfair" and "unequal" initial distribution. If that's the definition of "scam," then Monero is a scam as well.

b) The trolling is spreading, and it's severely discrediting Monero. I realize that the Monero community has no control over what these trolls do in their name, but people outside of Dash are now being personally attacked by trolls who purport to call themselves fans of Monero. I think this is a big mistake--it can only hurt Monero in the long run.



All you do is continue to twist facts. The crippled miner Monero inherited is not at all the same as an instamine scam where the dev says he's going to wait until tomorrow to launch then launches in 2 hours, then instamines 1.5 million Dashcoins in 8 hours and blames it on a bug, then lowers the emission drastically to make the instamine worth more. then says he's turning it into a POS coin which benefits his instamine even more.. then continues the deception and says there was no premine and omits the massive instamine..and so on and so on.. one lie after the next.

The bitcoin-dev mailing list proves Evan had a plan, and it's now obvious that the instamine was part of Evan's business plan.

Poor ddink, he tries so hard but he just continues to fail Sad

Dash Sad
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November 19, 2015, 05:58:23 PM

It's becoming obvious that the Monero trolls live in a glass house. Monero had its own issuance problems, with one guy receiving between 50% and 90% of all the coins in the first three months. Is it the current Monero team's fault? No, probably not. They inherited the broken miner and fixed it as soon as they were able. Did it ultimately affect the early distribution of the coin? Yes.

This does not bother me personally. Mistakes happen, and as long as they are corrected as quickly as possible, I'm fine with it. But by the standards that Icebreaker, AdamWhite, TheDasher, and others pro-Monero trolls use, then Monero is a scam coin. These gentlemen (or ladies) believe that Dash is a scam because of an "unfair" and "unequal" initial distribution. If that's the definition of "scam," then Monero is a scam as well.

The big difference between the XMR and DASH early distribution is that the DASH instamine was clearly planned by Evan, making the DASH instamine a scam.

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November 19, 2015, 06:05:24 PM
Last edit: November 19, 2015, 09:15:13 PM by dnaleor

Um, masternodes will always do the mixing.  Only now they will do it in quorums.

this is new information...
This is a quote from Evan Duffield
"This system doesn't mix on masternodes at all. It's done on a protocol level.
And so, we actually don't like that we are mixing on masternodes and I wanted to remove that for a long time and I finally figuered out how to do it."



Does Evan even know what he was talking about in Amsterdam?
Is he really the coder or is he still paying his c++ devs with the instamined DASH?

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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November 19, 2015, 06:20:56 PM

clearly

I don't know about you, but when I went to grad school they told me I had to provide evidence and documentation to support statements like this, but maybe you missed that day?

P.S. Here's a question that none of you trolls have ever been able to answer: If Evan "clearly" planned the early emission problems and mined tons of Dash early on, then why is he still working on the project? The price of Dash exceeded $11 each in May 2014...if Evan deliberately planned some elaborate scam, then why didn't he sell everything in May 2014 and just disappear, like so many other coin developers have done?

If Dash's instamine was a deliberate scam executed by Evan, WHY is he still working full time developing the coin?

Why?

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November 19, 2015, 06:27:31 PM

Um, masternodes will always do the mixing.  Only now they will do it in quorums.

So it used to be that one masternode would be chosen to mix funds, and the result would be "one round" of mixing.  The user would then mix a multiple of times to ensure that their information (ip address or tracking of which funds went where) could be logged and followed by corroborating MNs.  The chances that a single malicious entity could own enough MNs to be successful became exponentially more difficult with each round.

With the new quorum system, mixing can happen instantly with many rounds.  The MNs are also even more randomly chosen as a group as the group will always consist of MNs that belong to (at the moment) one of 4 age groups.  They are first assigned an age group.  1/4 of the oldest MNs (according to when the funds were first placed into the account), then the next oldest, next oldest, and finally newest.  From each of these groups, a selection of nodes closest to a hash are selected (based upon that same input hash).  So there is a random hash that chooses the group of MNs and a mix of ages in each quorum.  Lets say 2 in each age group and 8 in each quorum.

So now in an infinitely impossible to manipulate quorum of 8 nodes, you can be certain that they will do their work securely, or the quorum's work will be rejected.  Every block, we have MN-count/8 quorums.  These quorums can do a certain amount of work each second.  They are quick, as only 8 have to talk to one another as a group.  They quickly go through all the transactions sent to them and approve/reject transactions.  This is somehow sent to the miners who include everything in the blockchain.  If the miner doesn't do it properly, the whole block is rejected.  Thus, eliminating the so called 50% attack vector.

I'm guessing here, but I can see the mixing simply going from one of these masternodes to another, ultimately allowing for many rounds in milliseconds.  There is no time constraint like waiting for a block.  The MNs do all the work, and simply send them to the miners for inclusion.  

And as far as transactions go, Evan said every transaction will now be instantX transactions, approved by one of the quorums.  Again, miners will have no say as to what is included in the blockchain.  If they include something that was not approved, it would be rejected.  Only their hash will be used to select the quorums.  I don't know which hash, it might be the next one, it might be a random one on the chain?? The latter might make sense as we would have to (at this time) have 400+ hashes to put each MN to work (or select nearest to farthest from a single hash?)

Thus, we can already compete quite well against big money transmitters such as Visa, MC, etc...  The capacity is limitless.


Another thing that is being developed is the Distributed Applications Programming Layer, DAPI.  This DAPI will hook into the Masternode Network, and people will be able to create applications that can query the network.  So, at the most basic level, no wallet needs to download gigabytes of blockchain.  The MNs, miners and anyone who wants to keep a full copy of the blockchain, stores a copy, and with thousands of MNs, the blockchain is very well distributed. So, they can serve up the necessary information thus all wallets can act as mobile wallets without worry of having incorrect information due to a central point of failure currently a risk in mobile wallets.

This, or at least the foundation for this should be ready by the TNABC in January, where Evan will be presenting.  We should also hear more in about 2 weeks when Evan will be presenting at the laBITconf.

I am in awe of your cryptanalysis skillz.

You should help Evan write the whitepaper(s) and get them submitted to Ledger.

I'm sure the community will be equally if not more impressed by these revolutionary breakthroughs in software engineering.

[/sarcasm]

"infinitely impossible to manipulate quorum of 8 nodes"

LOL, such comedy gold.  I literally just can't.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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November 19, 2015, 06:37:45 PM
Last edit: November 19, 2015, 07:00:25 PM by iCEBREAKER

It's becoming obvious that the Monero trolls live in a glass house. Monero had its own issuance problems, with one guy receiving between 50% and 90% of all the coins in the first three months. Is it the current Monero team's fault? No, probably not. They inherited the broken miner and fixed it as soon as they were able. Did it ultimately affect the early distribution of the coin? Yes.

This does not bother me personally. Mistakes happen, and as long as they are corrected as quickly as possible, I'm fine with it. But by the standards that Icebreaker, AdamWhite, TheDasher, and others pro-Monero trolls use, then Monero is a scam coin. These gentlemen (or ladies) believe that Dash is a scam because of an "unfair" and "unequal" initial distribution. If that's the definition of "scam," then Monero is a scam as well.

The big difference between the XMR and DASH early distribution is that the DASH instamine was clearly planned by Evan, making the DASH instamine a scam.



Dash  Embarrassed


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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November 19, 2015, 07:42:38 PM

The big difference between the XMR and DASH early distribution is that the DASH instamine was clearly planned by Evan, making the DASH instamine a scam.

So now mal-distribution launches are ok if the devs didn't mean it because you say so because you need an escape clause ?

Be advised that you, iCEBREAKER and the rest of your self-righteous cabal have succeeded in rubber stamping yourselves as some of the biggest charlatans in the crypto community.

Hoisted by your own petard.

I hope your fellow holders of the less toxic variety thank you for it when your marketcap starts developing sink holes the size of texas due to its flawed monetary model backstage audience, raped coin supply, mining bias at launch and faux ethics hysteria.
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November 19, 2015, 07:49:02 PM

I need help with masternodes and other features, if possible.

Check here:  https://dashtalk.org/forums/masternode-guides.66/

Let us know if you have questions.

I really should add a section there too, but I'm very busy building version 0.2.

Repost:

Friendly reminder for newcomers. Wink

https://github.com/moocowmoo/dashman

From zero to dashd (or masternode) in 30 seconds.

(screenshot version is old, but you get the point)
dashman install



dashman status


and for voting...

dashman vote




stay tuned for version 0.2 -- remote management here we come!



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service: https://masternode.me -- The first automated masternode service. Ugly website, stellar uptimes and hands-on support. Over 150 nodes with 300+ days uptime!
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November 19, 2015, 07:50:46 PM


The big difference between the XMR and DASH early distribution is that the DASH instamine was clearly planned by Evan, making the DASH instamine a scam.

So now mal-distribution launches are ok if the devs didn't mean it because you say so because you need an escape clause ?

Be advised that you, iCEBREAKER and the rest of your self-righteous cabal have succeeded in rubber stamping yourselves as some of the biggest charlatans in the crypto community.

Hoisted by your own petard.

I hope your fellow holders of the less toxic variety thank you for it when your marketcap starts developing sink holes the size of texas due to its flawed monetary model, backstage audience, raped coin supply, mining bias at launch and faux ethics hysteria.

If you are so sure about that please take advantage of the 10s of 1000s of XMR available for borrowing at rates very close to zero, and short the hell out of it.

And by all means, continue to attack-the-attacker.  Nothing demonstrates Dash's lack of substance better than your cargo cult community's propensity to use tu quoque ad nauseam.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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Fatov
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November 19, 2015, 08:15:08 PM

>6M supply and no comments??
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?372562.htm

Fatov was here
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November 19, 2015, 08:21:55 PM

I don't post here that often anymore but holy shit InstantX is flawless every single time now. 5/6 confirmations by the time I switch to the "transactions" tab from the "send" tab. Sick.

I'd like to thank eduffield and the other developers for this critically important evolution in virtual currency. DarkCoin is what bitcoin should have been. Some might call it "Bitcoin 2.0" but would do better by saying: "DarkCoin is digital cash." - Child Harold - February 28, 2014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5424980#msg5424980
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November 19, 2015, 08:27:02 PM

This is worth quotting! Smiley YEAH 6KK baby! Smiley

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November 19, 2015, 08:31:06 PM

You don't see the difference between a planned unfair acquisition of coins and a true accident? I mean, really, the word "scam" implies malice...

I don't even know if Evan DID plan the instamine, because I haven't looked into it and don't really care all that much. But assuming it was malice, there's a HUGE difference.


You have to think about it.  In court they tell you as a Juror, you are instructed that if a witness lies under oath, all their testimony can be considered a lie and dismissed.  Now, think of the people using defamatory language anonymously against the hardest working developer, in this space.  Who is also completely open about who he is, talks publicly, etc... Then think of the lies these trolls constantly exude here on this thread.

Anyone with half a brain, or took 10 minutes to research will realize the truth.  A person with such a work ethic, who has been a public figure, is not a liar.

Sorry for screwing up the quote Tongue

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November 19, 2015, 08:36:38 PM

Of course he's a liar, because everybody lies. The only question is about what.

I think there is a difference between lying about something like this, having been asked a direct question by the public, and avoiding the subject with your wife that you spent $150.00 buying your friends drinks down at the pub. The things he has said on record, I am certain are true.  The things he doesn't want to discuss, because it's private, he doesn't say, period.

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November 19, 2015, 09:03:39 PM



I'm guessing here, but I can see the mixing simply going from one of these masternodes to another, ultimately allowing for many rounds in milliseconds.  There is no time constraint like waiting for a block.  The MNs do all the work, and simply send them to the miners for inclusion.  



This is a great point and I think you're on to something, but that alone doesn't allow Darksend to be instant. You would still have the problem of waiting for funds to mix with. I think Evan must have something planned that's way outside the box!

probably just a full army of paid liquidity providers. Good job Evan, this is a very decentralized solution and without any cost to the network.

#sarcasm

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November 19, 2015, 09:05:56 PM

You don't see the difference between a planned unfair acquisition of coins and a true accident? I mean, really, the word "scam" implies malice...

I don't even know if Evan DID plan the instamine, because I haven't looked into it and don't really care all that much. But assuming it was malice, there's a HUGE difference.


You have to think about it.  In court they tell you as a Juror, you are instructed that if a witness lies under oath, all their testimony can be considered a lie and dismissed.  Now, think of the people using defamatory language anonymously against the hardest working developer, in this space.  Who is also completely open about who he is, talks publicly, etc... Then think of the lies these trolls constantly exude here on this thread.

Anyone with half a brain, or took 10 minutes to research will realize the truth.  A person with such a work ethic, who has been a public figure, is not a liar.

Sorry for screwing up the quote Tongue

Desperate people do/say desperate things, and there sure as shit is some desperate 'people' camping in this thread.
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November 19, 2015, 09:10:17 PM
Last edit: November 19, 2015, 09:32:46 PM by dnaleor

clearly

I don't know about you, but when I went to grad school they told me I had to provide evidence and documentation to support statements like this, but maybe you missed that day?

P.S. Here's a question that none of you trolls have ever been able to answer: If Evan "clearly" planned the early emission problems and mined tons of Dash early on, then why is he still working on the project? The price of Dash exceeded $11 each in May 2014...if Evan deliberately planned some elaborate scam, then why didn't he sell everything in May 2014 and just disappear, like so many other coin developers have done?

If Dash's instamine was a deliberate scam executed by Evan, WHY is he still working full time developing the coin?

Why?

Yes, clearly:


Quote

The official story about the instamine: https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now. It’s also important to note, I was working a very challenging day job while working on Dash in the first couple weeks. So I was putting out fires every night, keeping tabs on Dash during the day (while getting yelled at by my boss when he caught me a couple times). Eventually I quit when I got Dash stable enough to work on full time and decided I really wanted to explore what I could do with it. “

----------------------------------------------------

The evidence shows that it was a planned instamine. This wasn't mentioned before launch.
The features of this coin were also not public at launch.
=> Nobody was really interested in the coin at launch, making this instamine more a kind of "stealth launched premine".
In my books, that's a scam.

Please don't ignore the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

Xcoin rebranded to Darkcoin and eventually to DASH later on.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

How can this be all an accident (like Evan is always saying) and NOT be intentional?
Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin. Question:

QUESTION:
>How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
ANSWER:
>by premining and/or instamining.

How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.



=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)

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Otoh
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November 19, 2015, 09:11:04 PM
Last edit: November 19, 2015, 09:21:19 PM by Otoh

My god, modnazis or what?

Quote from: Bitcoin Forum
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

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oh darn, i just saw one and i feel too tired to run  Embarrassed

Black cats are considered lucky in Europe, Japan etc, atm I'm in España so OK Wink



"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every troll that trolls."

I won't bother checking in to this forum much again now, I donated $10,000 to it and get treated like a nigga, fine delete innocent fun posts and tolerate constant repetitive toxic hate spam trolling, whoever mods here is a disgrace.

In other news Cryptsy amazingly sent me approx 3,000 Dash in withdrawals today Shocked


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November 19, 2015, 09:11:20 PM


Desperate people do/say desperate things, and there sure as shit is some desperate 'people' camping in this thread.


Kind of like this?

Sometimes it's good to just start fresh, I've made four separate discoveries so far  Grin.


How desperate do you need to be if this is the kind of post you make to try and improve morale on your shitcoin thread?


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November 19, 2015, 09:12:48 PM




BYE.
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