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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 8121526 times)
Honest Tim
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November 19, 2015, 09:05:56 PM

You don't see the difference between a planned unfair acquisition of coins and a true accident? I mean, really, the word "scam" implies malice...

I don't even know if Evan DID plan the instamine, because I haven't looked into it and don't really care all that much. But assuming it was malice, there's a HUGE difference.


You have to think about it.  In court they tell you as a Juror, you are instructed that if a witness lies under oath, all their testimony can be considered a lie and dismissed.  Now, think of the people using defamatory language anonymously against the hardest working developer, in this space.  Who is also completely open about who he is, talks publicly, etc... Then think of the lies these trolls constantly exude here on this thread.

Anyone with half a brain, or took 10 minutes to research will realize the truth.  A person with such a work ethic, who has been a public figure, is not a liar.

Sorry for screwing up the quote Tongue

Desperate people do/say desperate things, and there sure as shit is some desperate 'people' camping in this thread.
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dnaleor
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November 19, 2015, 09:10:17 PM

clearly

I don't know about you, but when I went to grad school they told me I had to provide evidence and documentation to support statements like this, but maybe you missed that day?

P.S. Here's a question that none of you trolls have ever been able to answer: If Evan "clearly" planned the early emission problems and mined tons of Dash early on, then why is he still working on the project? The price of Dash exceeded $11 each in May 2014...if Evan deliberately planned some elaborate scam, then why didn't he sell everything in May 2014 and just disappear, like so many other coin developers have done?

If Dash's instamine was a deliberate scam executed by Evan, WHY is he still working full time developing the coin?

Why?

Yes, clearly:


Quote

The official story about the instamine: https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now. It’s also important to note, I was working a very challenging day job while working on Dash in the first couple weeks. So I was putting out fires every night, keeping tabs on Dash during the day (while getting yelled at by my boss when he caught me a couple times). Eventually I quit when I got Dash stable enough to work on full time and decided I really wanted to explore what I could do with it. “

----------------------------------------------------

The evidence shows that it was a planned instamine. This wasn't mentioned before launch.
The features of this coin were also not public at launch.
=> Nobody was really interested in the coin at launch, making this instamine more a kind of "stealth launched premine".
In my books, that's a scam.

Please don't ignore the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

Xcoin rebranded to Darkcoin and eventually to DASH later on.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

How can this be all an accident (like Evan is always saying) and NOT be intentional?
Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin. Question:

QUESTION:
>How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
ANSWER:
>by premining and/or instamining.

How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.



=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)

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Otoh
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November 19, 2015, 09:11:04 PM

My god, modnazis or what?

Quote from: Bitcoin Forum
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

Quote
oh darn, i just saw one and i feel too tired to run  Embarrassed

Black cats are considered lucky in Europe, Japan etc, atm I'm in España so OK Wink



"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every troll that trolls."

I won't bother checking in to this forum much again now, I donated $10,000 to it and get treated like a nigga, fine delete innocent fun posts and tolerate constant repetitive toxic hate spam trolling, whoever mods here is a disgrace.

In other news Cryptsy amazingly sent me approx 3,000 Dash in withdrawals today Shocked


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DrkLvr_
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November 19, 2015, 09:11:20 PM


Desperate people do/say desperate things, and there sure as shit is some desperate 'people' camping in this thread.


Kind of like this?

Sometimes it's good to just start fresh, I've made four separate discoveries so far  Grin.


How desperate do you need to be if this is the kind of post you make to try and improve morale on your shitcoin thread?


Dash Sad

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November 19, 2015, 09:12:48 PM




BYE.

Fatov
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November 19, 2015, 09:21:31 PM

Sometimes it's good to just start fresh, I've made four separate discoveries so far  Grin.
How desperate do you need to be if this is the kind of post you make to try and improve morale on your shitcoin thread?
We prefer that is plugged in developing dash.


Trolls...

Fatov was here
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eduffield
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November 19, 2015, 09:22:27 PM


Hadn't noticed! Great work blockchain.

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November 19, 2015, 09:23:16 PM

clearly

I don't know about you, but when I went to grad school they told me I had to provide evidence and documentation to support statements like this, but maybe you missed that day?

P.S. Here's a question that none of you trolls have ever been able to answer: If Evan "clearly" planned the early emission problems and mined tons of Dash early on, then why is he still working on the project? The price of Dash exceeded $11 each in May 2014...if Evan deliberately planned some elaborate scam, then why didn't he sell everything in May 2014 and just disappear, like so many other coin developers have done?

If Dash's instamine was a deliberate scam executed by Evan, WHY is he still working full time developing the coin?

Why?

Yes, clearly:


Quote

The official story about the instamine: https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now. It’s also important to note, I was working a very challenging day job while working on Dash in the first couple weeks. So I was putting out fires every night, keeping tabs on Dash during the day (while getting yelled at by my boss when he caught me a couple times). Eventually I quit when I got Dash stable enough to work on full time and decided I really wanted to explore what I could do with it. “

----------------------------------------------------

The evidence shows that it was a planned instamine. This wasn't mentioned before launch.
The features of this coin were also not public at launch.
=> Nobody was really interested in the coin at launch, making this instamine more a kind of "stealth launched premine".
In my books, that's a scam.

Please don't ignore the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

Xcoin rebranded to Darkcoin and eventually to DASH later on.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

QUESTION:
>How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?
ANSWER:
>by premining and/or instamining.

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

Code:
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Fatov
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November 19, 2015, 09:23:28 PM


I won't bother checking in to this forum much again now, I donated $10,000 to it and get treated like a nigga, fine delete innocent fun posts and tolerate constant repetitive toxic hate spam trolling, whoever mods here is a disgrace.

In other news Cryptsy amazingly sent me approx 3,000 Dash in withdrawals today Shocked

Congrats!
I sent you a pm Sad

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November 19, 2015, 09:27:05 PM



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Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
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It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
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Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

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Warning Dash is a planned instamine, it wasn't
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November 19, 2015, 09:27:54 PM

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof... I didn't want to post it, but they called me out on it.
So well, every time they ask for it, they'll get this reply.

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November 19, 2015, 09:30:36 PM

My god, modnazis or what?

Quote from: Bitcoin Forum
A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.


I won't bother checking in to this forum much again now, I donated $10,000 to it and get treated like a nigga, fine delete innocent fun posts and tolerate constant repetitive toxic hate spam trolling, whoever mods here is a disgrace.


QFT. Theymos and the rest of the mod team are apparently a bunch of ungrateful dicks.

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November 19, 2015, 09:38:24 PM

Quote
DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)
Quote

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

Pretty convincing? How's this for pretty convincing: Evan quit his job and still works full time on Dash nearly two years later. If he's a scammer, he's got to be the lousiest one in history. He had a chance to exit his position in May 2014 for $11 per coin, and if he had somehow missed that opportunity, he had the chance to exit in March 2015 for nearly $6 per coin.

What the hell kind of moron would deliberately instamine a coin and instead of selling for millions in profit a few months later, continue working on the project for another 18 months? Nobody can answer this simple question because there is no answer. It defies all possible logic.

Quote
I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

I do agree with that. Nothing makes "your" coin look worse than your refusal to say your piece and leave. Continued, nonstop trolling for thousands of thread pages only damages the reputation of the coin that you supposedly love.

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November 19, 2015, 09:41:16 PM

Quote
DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)
Quote

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

Pretty convincing? How's this for pretty convincing: Evan quit his job and still works full time on Dash nearly two years later. If he's a scammer, he's got to be the lousiest one in history. He had a chance to exit his position in May 2014 for $11 per coin, and if he had somehow missed that opportunity, he had the chance to exit in March 2015 for nearly $6 per coin.

What the hell kind of moron would deliberately instamine a coin and instead of selling for millions in profit a few months later, continue working on the project for another 18 months? Nobody can answer this simple question because there is no answer. It defies all possible logic.

Quote
I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

I do agree with that. Nothing makes "your" coin look worse than your refusal to say your piece and leave. Continued, nonstop trolling for thousands of thread pages only damages the reputation of the coin that you supposedly love.

Look at the facts, not the supposed intent. If those statements are true, then it was instamined. Whether or not it was, again, I don't care.

But, let's have fun speculating on intent. Maybe Evan dumped a bunch early on, then came back to it, and ended up making it wildly successful?
Or maybe he's cold, intelligent, and vicious, and plans to bring it to new highs before exiting? Who the hell knows?

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November 19, 2015, 09:42:44 PM

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof


Not really seeing any proof. Just seeing a whole bunch of speculation.

But since you are being so helpful, maybe you could answer the question I posed a few pages back, to wit:

If Evan planned and significantly benefited from the instamine, why didn't he sell all his holdings in May 2014 for $11 per coin and then disappear, as so many crypto devs have done. Why does he continue to work full-time on the project?

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November 19, 2015, 09:44:03 PM


In other news Cryptsy amazingly sent me approx 3,000 Dash in withdrawals today Shocked


Congratulations! Smiley Nice to hear it.

I have almost started "cryptsy=scam campaign" for Russians... but now... let's wait a bit.

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November 19, 2015, 09:56:25 PM

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof


Not really seeing any proof. Just seeing a whole bunch of speculation.

But since you are being so helpful, maybe you could answer the question I posed a few pages back, to wit:

If Evan planned and significantly benefited from the instamine, why didn't he sell all his holdings in May 2014 for $11 per coin and then disappear, as so many crypto devs have done. Why does he continue to work full-time on the project?

Dumping a lot of coins probably wasn't possible on those highs. That's why he is still here.
Maybe he also likes travelling and the fact that he ca speak at conferences and get a "good guy" reputation.
Maybe he wants to do some consulting someday?


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Cetere mi opinias ke Dasho estas detruenda.     |     1Credit - Fair emission, better than BTC > CLCqECaYpCahgKRsXJiVBzgsiz57ZHfr4u
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November 19, 2015, 10:02:09 PM


So masternodes will still be used for mixing?
This is a disappointment, I must admit  Undecided

DASH => Xpr7BtiYTeA5dDq9KyGoWFNtv1LwiNukmb
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November 19, 2015, 10:10:01 PM



Look at the facts, not the supposed intent.

But intent is everything. The very definition of fraud requires that there be intent to defraud. Likewise, in every murder investigation, motive is one of the most important things that must be answered. It's possible to get a conviction without demonstrating a clear motive, but it's incredibly difficult.

Quote

If those statements are true, then it was instamined.

Dash was definitely instamined. The question is whether it was done on purpose and whether Evan benefited significantly from it. Let's look at what the troll says:

1) Evan ended up making Dash something that was actually useful, rather than a bitcoin clone with a different algorithm. He had "plans" for the coin but didn't announce them at launch. He waited until he had begun making progress with the code before announcing them.
--How is this a bad thing, exactly? Evan promised only one thing at launch, which was the one thing he had actually coded: Xcoin would use X11. At this time, in January 2014, every dev under the sun was promising the moon. Evan actually took the very reasonable step of underpromising and overdelivering. I fail to see how this is a bad thing?

2) Evan said he was looking to hire a programmer to start a for-profit coin which would be merge-mined.
--I've had a lot of plans in my life, and the vast majority of them didn't come to fruition. Still others have evolved over time into something else. If we're going to be strictly literal here, I could point out that Xcoin was at no point merge-mined with any other currency, and therefore can't be the project Evan was talking about starting.

3) Evan said he would postpone the launch and then launched a few hours later.
--I guess he changed his mind? Did he not publicly release the binaries and post on this thread when he did?

4) There were problems with the Windows binaries at launch.
--Show me a coin where this *isn't* the case. It's already been demonstrated that the Monero miner was deliberately de-optimized at launch. Maxcoin's launch was a disasterous fiasco. Even Litecoin, which Dash was originally forked from, had an instamine.

5) Evan was mining from the start, since he had 5000 Xcoins to offer as a bounty.
--Well no shit. Did you really expect him to *not* be mining? Nobody questions that Evan got some coins in the beginning. The only question is whether that amount was significant.

6) The emission schedule changed numerous times.
--Again, people aren't allowed to change their mind?

7) The coin was mined from a limited number of IP addresses.
--I don't know enough to weigh your evidence here. I'll leave that to others. Even if that is the case, so what? It was publicly launched and the binaries were publicly released. Is it Evan's fault if nobody was interested?

8) Yes, 1.5 million coins were mined in the first eight hours. Please show me some proof of your assertion that "most of these coins ended up in his hands."

Dash - Digital Cash
https://www.dash.org/
illodin
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November 19, 2015, 10:10:59 PM

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof... I didn't want to post it, but they called me out on it.
So well, every time they ask for it, they'll get this reply.


Your "proof" seems circumstantial speculation.



For example this one, why are you still presenting this "recent investigations" result even though it has been refuted multiple times? That "investigation" does not show what you claim it does.
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