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1621  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: July 22, 2016, 11:48:30 PM
Critical article but interesting - and not totally wrong:

A Painful Lesson For The Ethereum Community
http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2016/07/21/a-painful-lesson-for-the-ethereum-community/#494412bf5714


Every time I read this (bolded) I can't help but laugh!

Quote
After a torrid few weeks arguing about what to do, while the DAO (Decentralized Autonomous Organization) became ever more corrupted due to repeated attempts to recover the money without fixing the code problem that made it impossible to prevent the money being stolen again, the Ethereum community has finally bowed to the inevitable. The DAO code has been rolled back to a point prior to the original attack – a “hard fork”. Ethereum has had its first bailout.

Frances Coppola and Elaine Ou both wrote splendidly well-argued, devastatingly condemnatory articles about the outcome of the DAO/ETH fiasco.

It's now perfectly clear the hard fork isn't being done for any reason beyond a troubled asset relief program.

Good luck with that TARP-fork.  You're going to need it.



1622  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: The DAO FAIL on: July 22, 2016, 11:37:31 PM
The Ethereum is a live project and it is evolving all the time. It will be more popular after the crisis.

Really? Do you know what the "D" in the DAO stands for? The Ethereum Foundation sold "decentralized" project for hundreds of millions, which will be now hard forked. Grin 

I do not think any Ethereum Foundation members have the rights to dictate the terms of the hard fork, only miners will.

So that is an kind of democracy. I voted for the soft fork in the http://ethpool.org/ before, but there is no vote for HF now.

Most miners and the Ethereum holders have voted for the hard fork to get back the stolen DAO. So we will see.

Whoever told you that is wrong.  You need better sources of information.

Most did not vote at all.


http://elaineou.com/2016/07/18/stick-a-fork-in-ethereum/#forkyou


Quote
A message on the Ethermine.org pool states:

    According to the voting result (65% in favor of not supporting the fork) the pool is supposed not to support the fork. But as all other major pools (e.g. dwarfpool, ethermine, nanopool) are supporting the fork we can and will not jeopardize any mining income of the pool by mining on a chain that has a very high probability to get orphaned. Therefore, according to our voting policy stated in the announcement, we will support the hard fork.

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@crazysmile/ethereum-hard-fork-due-miner-vote-overturned

Wow very democracy.  So many decentralized.
1623  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: July 21, 2016, 06:03:16 PM

                                           Coinbase adds support for Ethereum Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


https://twitter.com/SatoshiShinohai/status/755781426578984961

Shit is still shit, even if you scare all the flies off.


Bitcoin is antifragile.  Ethereum, not so much.

Cites:

http://elaineou.com/2016/07/18/stick-a-fork-in-ethereum/#forkyou

Quote
The DAO controlled $150M worth of ether, and an attacker exploited a bug to extract $60M of that. This current reality is unacceptable to many people.

The only way to get the ether back is to create an alternate reality where the attacker does not have anything.

“Invent a new version of the universe” is normally not permitted by the software protocol, which is why this involves a client update and a hard fork.

If there truly was “social consensus” – and I mean the actual definition of “consensus”, which is unanimous consent – there would be no problem with the fork. It wouldn’t even be a fork, simply a mass migration. Just don’t expect anyone to take your “unstoppable computer” very seriously after that.

http://elaineou.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/forkyou-1.pdf

Quote
Types of Hard Fork
•  “Let’s collectively agree to change the rules that allow for securely updating future states.” -Software Update
•  “Let’s collectively agree to break the rules, just this once.” -51% Attack


"Just the tip" -VB, basically

"OK, just this once *wink-wink*" -Coinbase, basically
1624  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 21, 2016, 05:29:27 PM
It is highly secure network. 100 cards and almost nothing.

That's awesome.

The issue of fraud compatibility has created an Ethereum Civil War.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589.msg15660758#msg15660758
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559630.0

It's good to know Monero, specifically in terms of network strength, is structurally incompatible with fraud.   Cool



BTW primer, nice whiny ragequit.   Cheesy
1625  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: July 21, 2016, 05:28:35 PM
more news


\Etherindex LLC Files SEC Prospectus for First Ether-Based ETF

http://www.ethereum.net/news/spotlight/etherindex-llc-files-sec-prospectus-for-first-ether-based-etf

That's fine.

We'll make an ETH Classic ETF.

Sounds like a job for MPEX!



So what's next for ethereum? Dao and smart contracts are dead. How will you continue the shitcoin pump?

Maybe they could use smart contracts and DAOs to build a "better" soda machine.  It's working great for Dash, even John McAfee was impressed with such "awesome technology."   Cheesy
1626  Other / Politics & Society / Re: There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt on: July 21, 2016, 05:17:46 PM
Now, we the military, have all kinds of weapons and devices that public doesn't have a clue about.

Cool

That goes both ways.

You think the patriots stopped prepping, and just drink beer/watch sports in their garages/workshops/militia compounds?

Good.  Keep believing that.   Wink
1627  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: July 21, 2016, 04:49:56 PM
Where is the bloody mETH/eTHC pair? Why does it take so long and to which coin does this thread actually belong to now? Fuckin' pussy-footing is incredible around here.

The herping and derping are hilarious!  Are you not entertained?

Bitcoin runs on drama, Ethereum runs on controversy.

What happens when, say, Coinbase GDAX customers demand access to their eTHC?

Does Coinbase pay out on one chain based on their whims?

The safest, least liability creating approach is to treat one of them as a spin-off, where existing shareholders get shares in the new company on a 1 to 1 basis.

The optimally profitable strategy for an exchange is to offer the pair and profit from additional volume/volatility/derivatives.

If you have *ETH on an exchange that supports the hard fork, let them know they may either provide the immutable coins you originally purchased or get ready to talk to thier lawyer(s).

And that argument may cuts both ways, for exchanges that *don't* support the hard fork.   Grin
1628  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Moral Hazard on: July 21, 2016, 02:46:42 PM
A pump and dump based on hype and false promises means nothing.

Vitalik sold immutable tokens and now the word has been wiped clean. This is false advertising, deceptive and bait and switch. Ethereum Classic believes in the original intent.

The repeated use of childish appeals to popularity ("nobody likes ETH Classic, neener-neener") to justify this emergent politicized governance structure do more harm than the DAO hacker ever could.

OTOH, we always knew or should have known ETH is functionally VitalikCoin.

Nevertheless, the self-serving hypocrisy burns with the fire of a hundred supervolcanoes:

If you don't want a Bitcoin hard fork to roll back FBI, MtGox, and Pirate40 (etc) thefts, you must be SUPPORTING BITCOIN THIEVES!

That's the only logically consistent position for mETH (mutable ETH) heads to take.

Of course they don't care about silly academic issues like mutability; they are here only for the pump and dump fiat profits.

Look how gleefully they trade liberty for security; see how scornfully they dismiss the idea they don't deserve, nor will achieve, either.

Admission to VB's decentralization theater is paid in mutable tokens.

Those who deserved to lose money are being reimbursed with Helicopter Vitalik's freshly-printed monopoly money; the stench of moral hazard hangs thick in the air, choking out the brief whiff of ETH's former promise.


Only systems that are structurally incompatible with fraud don't suffer from the overhang of potential fraud.

What VB claimed to be selling: immutable tokens

What VB actually sold us: trivially mutable tokens

The invisible hand, wielding smooth's razor, begins its grisly work, cutting capitol allocation from where it is treated arbitrarily and moving it to places where the Code Is Law ethos is respected as more than just a marketing slogan.

How long until Chancellor Butarin authorizes a second round of bailouts?

It's now a matter of when, not if.  The moral overhang has been set in stone.

As of now, it's impossible to refute VB's demonstration of ETH's structural compatibility with fraud.
1629  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 20, 2016, 03:17:11 AM
an hour and 19 minutes since the last block. They are averaging 23 minutes per block and they're all full.

this will cause the price to slump, which will kick more hashpower off the networks, causing further backlogs and higher fees in a viscous feedback loop. I told you bastards this would happen.

it's the FUDocalypse!!

FIXED IT.   Smiley
1630  Other / Politics & Society / Re: There Will Be No Second American Revolution: The Futility of an Armed Revolt on: July 20, 2016, 02:02:20 AM

The Futility of an Armed Revolt


Not this shit again!   Roll Eyes



What good can a handgun do against an Army


By Mike Venderboegh, Added May 1999

http://www.jeffhead.com/liberty/handgun.htm

Quote
So finally we are faced with, we must return to, the moral component of the question: "What good can a handgun do against an army?" The answer is "Nothing," or "Everything." The outcome depends upon the mind and heart and soul of the man or woman who holds it. One may also ask, "What good can a sling in the hands of a boy do against a marauding giant?" If your cause is just and righteous much can be done, but only if you are willing to risk the consequences of failure and to bear the burdens of eternal vigilance.

A new friend of mine gave me a plaque the other day. Upon it is written these words by Winston Churchill, a man who knew much about fighting tyranny:

    "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Winston Churchill

The Spartans at Thermopolae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected", divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately, almost without weapons, and die outnumbered.

The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine, wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber him and his henchmen. It matters not whether they call themselves Communists or Nazis or something else. It matters not what flag they fly, nor what uniform they wear. It matters not what excuses they give for stealing your liberty, your property or your life. "By their works ye shall know them."

The time is late. Those who once has trouble reading the hour on their watches have no trouble seeing by the glare of the fire at Waco. Few of us realized at the time that the Constitution was burning right along with the Davidians. Now we know better.

We have had the advantage of that horrible illumination for more than five years now-- five years in which the rule of law and the battered old parchment of our beloved Constitution have been smashed, shredded and besmirched by the Clintonistas. In this process they have been aided and abetted by the cowardly incompetence of the "opposition" Republican leadership, a fact made crystal clear by the Waco hearings. They have forgotten Daniel Webster's warning: "Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to the Constitution of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands-- what has happened once in six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution, for if the American Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the world."

Yet being able to see what has happened has not helped us reverse, or even slow, the process. The sad fact is that we may have to resign ourselves to the prospect of having to maintain our principles and our liberty in the face of becoming a disenfranchised minority within our own country.

The middle third of the populace, it seems, will continue to waffle in favor of the enemies of the Constitution until their comfort level with the economy is endangered. They've got theirs, Jack. The Republicans, who we thought could represent our interests and protect the Constitution and the rule of law, have been demonstrated to be political eunuchs. Alan Keyes was dead right when he characterized the last election as one between "the lawless Democrats and the gutless Republicans." The spectacular political failures of our current leaders are unrivaled in our history unless you recall the unprincipled jockeying for position and tragi-comedy of misunderstanding and miscommunication which lead to our first Civil War.

And make no mistake, it is civil war which may be the most horrible corollary of the Law of Unintended Consequences as it applies to the Clintonistas and their destruction of the rule of law. Because such people have no cause for which they are willing to die (all morality being relativistic to them, and all principles compromisable), they cannot fathom the motives or behavior of people who believe that there are some principles worth fighting and dying for. Out of such failures of understanding come wars. Particularly because although such elitists would not risk their own necks in a fight, they have no compunction about ordering others in their pay to fight for them. It is not the deaths of others, but their own deaths, that they fear. As a Christian, I cannot fear my own death, but rather I am commanded by my God to live in such a way as to make my death a homecoming. That this makes me incomprehensible and threatening to those who wish to be my masters is something I can do little about. I would suggest to them that they not poke their godless, tyrannical noses down my alley. As the coiled rattlesnake flag of the Revolution bluntly stated: "Don't Tread on Me!" Or, as our state motto here in Alabama says: "We Dare Defend Our Rights."

But can a handgun defeat an army? Yes. It remains to be seen whether the struggle of our generation against the tyrants of our day in the first decade of the 21st Century will bring a restoration of liberty and the rule of law or a dark and bloody descent into chaos and slavery.

That was almost 20 years ago.

Now/soon we'll have 3d printed AR-15s (aka Liberator 2.0).

Kill a pig, get a gun.

Kill a violator of Posse Comitatus, get a tank.
1631  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: -> Monero Community Hall of Fame <- on: July 19, 2016, 11:01:58 PM

Monero core devs are working hard in the chocolate factory, making us amazing crypto treats like GUI RingCT caramel truffles.

And this thread is dead.  Where is the love?    Cry

Do we need not offer tokens of appreciation simply because the forum funding system works so exceedingly well?

OK sure, any specific project that needs doing gets funded within minutes or hours.

But what about aminorex and fluffy's appreciation for fine wine and tacotime's passion for fake Canadian Mexican food?

Let's not forget smooth and Risto also need funds to hire trolls, to better vex the DashHoles.

We must get this thread moving again.  Time to give until it hurts (or at minimum tingles like peppermint soap on sensitive areas).

This is not charity, this is dividend reinvestment!

I'll start by generously providing 1 XMR to the dev fund on behalf of our dear friend TheDashGuy.   Grin

On a more solemn note, I'd like to donate 64 XMR in warptangent's name.  I wish I would've met you; I'd say hey man nice shot.

BUMP!
1632  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Up Like Trump on: July 19, 2016, 01:23:04 AM

As for Megan Kelly, that incident pretty much washed her up, didn't it?


Not it did not.  Please stop conflating your retribution fantasies with actual reality.

Megyn Kelly's ratings soar despite Donald Trump's tweets

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-kelly-ratings-trump-20150825-story.html

Kelly (further) established herself as an independent, top-rated, take no-shit-from-anybody journalist via the Trump imbroglio.

I'd love to see her as Press Sec in the Trump administration, but she wouldn't do that because she's a real pro, not the simpering partisan hack you desire her to be.
1633  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 18, 2016, 10:46:01 PM
Just send iCEBREAKER into the da(e)sh threads, and we'll have more retribution trolls than we could ever use.

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@juansgalt/hey-monero-fans-here-s-how-to-get-to-the-top-of-coinmarketcap

DashHoles now spend at least as much time fretting about Monero as they do working on Dash.

This looks like peak Monero Derangement Syndrome.   Cool


1634  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Monero GUI Wallet Release on: July 18, 2016, 09:50:45 PM
https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/915

Soon?
1635  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. on: July 18, 2016, 09:42:38 PM
Britain closes down global warming bureaucracy

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/07/britain_closes_down_global_warming_bureaucracy.html

Michael Mann  Embarrassed
1636  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 18, 2016, 03:01:59 AM
Primer- is maybe not the calibre of enemy one would like, but he is pretty deeply trollish.  Illodin is a somewhat higher grade of troll, but less deeply so.

Maybe we should use the forum funding system to incentivize more  aggressive, higher quality trolling? 


Lol...the ranking of the quality and calibre of trolls...i swear I'd rather read these threads than pay $20+ to go out to a movie that probably isn't that good anyway. This is more entertaining (at least for me). Go on with the chlorophyll!

A wise man once said "Bitcoin runs on drama."

And that goes double for altcoins.   Tongue
1637  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: July 18, 2016, 02:21:24 AM
Monero lacks completely the bullish and bearish trolls that are trolling in hard core manner.

Hey man, I'm doing all I can to stir the pot and goad the haters into using shorts to keep the price low for us buyers.

The closest we have to a respectable troll is Shelby, who isn't nearly as qualified as Prof Stolfi (the boss of the Buttcoiners).

We do have some remarkable bulls, in the form of Risto and Pegasus.

For now, that's fine.

Drama will intensify in proportion to market cap, Soon.TM
1638  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast) on: July 17, 2016, 09:04:40 PM
I had you ignored because I find your posting style annoying and you seem to just shill for things like FailFast/IceDrill/Monero. I never bought pre-orders from FailFast or invested into this. I also never said I was using facts when I made my statement. "Oh, I am sure that the owners of this made out quite well." is just an opinion. Nice try making it sound like I had tried posting facts. It does take talent to make Bitcoins disappear like that though.

So when you said "I am sure that the owners of this made out quite well" what you meant was

"I believe, based on nothing but hivemind prejudice, that the owners of this made out quite well."

Thanks for clearing that up.   Smiley

It it possible you find my posts "annoying" because they cut against the grain of the hivemind, but you can't refute them?

I implore you to eschew oversensitivity.  Embrace difference of opinion and delivery style, as molecular has.

If he had ignored me, he'd have missed my reportedly enjoyable rant about the angry overentitled mob mentality, which is driven by the "success has many fathers but failure is an orphan" principle.

As a result of ID's negative ROI, Will and DT now have to deal with the endless-although-debunked scam accusations, and they wasted two years of the prime of their lives in the process, so they did not in fact make out "quite well."

Again, your own opinion = OK.  Your own facts = not OK.

In the future please be more clear when talking rubbish.  It lowers the signal/noise ratio when you present opinion in ways which may be casually/reasonably interpreted as factual assertion.
1639  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency on: July 17, 2016, 08:40:57 PM

I already told you why it's economically impossible, but you didn't quote that explanation.

Better tell owners of these investments then since I don't think they read your explanation either  Wink

Anglo American (Yield: 15.3%)
BHP Billton (Yield: 11.6%)
Glencore (Yield: 11.4%)
Vedanta Resources (Yield: 10.6%)
Amec Foster Wheeler (Yield: 10.4%)
Standard Chartered (Yield: 9.8%)
Rio Tinto (Yield: 8.1%)
Royal Dutch Shell (Yield: 8.1%)
Aberdeen Asset Management (Yield: 8%)

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter

Some investments will by definition out-perform while others under-perform.  Duh.  Variance is a thing.

It would be impossible for all stocks to underperform, because that would change the benchmark.  Again, duh.

I didn't claim the zero-marginal-profit equilibrium is attained instantly.  Do you know what the terms "friction" and "incomplete information" mean in economics?

Those stocks you listed?  They do well some years, which you've cherry-picked, and worse other years.

You have to take your money out of the bank to gain exposure to those stocks, in contrast to the snake oil claims of Evan Scamfield.

The interesting thing is they exhaustively disclose the potential risks to investors, rather than advertise in advance blanket claims of ""8-15% return on your money in the bank."

Evan Scamfield makes no such legally required disclosures in his get-rich-quick MLM HYIP marketing.  And you don't bat an eye, just like a OneCoin pumper.

The only way to avoid such disclosure is to be privately owned, which contradicts Dash's pretense of being a DAO.

http://www.inc.com/encyclopedia/sec-disclosure-laws-and-regulations.html

Quote
Small businesses and other enterprises that are privately owned may shield information from public knowledge and determine for themselves who needs to know specific types of information. Companies that are publicly owned, on the other hand, are subject to detailed disclosure laws about their financial condition, operating results, management compensation, and other areas of their business. While these disclosure obligations are primarily linked with large publicly traded companies, many smaller companies choose to raise capital by making shares in the company available to investors. In such instances, the small business is subject to many of the same disclosure laws that apply to large corporations. Disclosure laws and regulations are monitored and enforced by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

All of the SEC's disclosure requirements have statutory authority, and these rules and regulations are subject to changes and amendments over time.





 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/17/229.305

17 CFR 229.305 - (Item 305) Quantitative and qualitative disclosures about market risk.

http://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/bulletin-formadv.htm
1640  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency on: July 17, 2016, 07:30:57 PM
what the message is you're trying to bring across?

The message:

Duffield's advertisement of "8-15% return on your money in the bank" is tacky and economically impossible.  (If it was real, capital would flood into the rare opportunity and drive rates down to market levels).


D10E should not allow the Dash Ponzi to turn their conference into a Get Rich Quick seminar.




Why would it be tacky and economically impossible?


You really don't know what's tacky about Get Rich Quick seminars?  Wow.  Just wow.

It's tacky to take advantage of unsophisticated/unaccredited rubes potential investors by throwing around big figures like "8-15%" to put dollar signs in their eyes.


I already told you why it's economically impossible, but you didn't quote that explanation.

Here it is again:

If [a business opportunity safely providing above-market gains] was real, capital would flood into the rare opportunity and drive rates down to market levels.

Did you ever take Econ 1?  The excess profit curbing feature of marginalism is usually covered first in high school, then more thoroughly in university.

Perhaps, like TheDashGuy, you dropped out before they covered all that confusing "supply and demand" stuff.   Cheesy

OK, now let's look forward to more giant pictures of the Dash roadmap and Golden Gate Bridge and other shitty stock images, because forum sliding is such a great way to get people excited about Dash and its Giant Instamine!
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