I'll be Win or Fail tomorrow, so I'll state my reasons and evidence then.
Come on, give a hint...  |
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In other news: guys, time to sell. Really.
Well, I'd be lying if I said your banting of selling didn't effect me.  But I also saw what you were saying and it bothered me. It bothered me since the sideways low volume. The final straw was the 3 day move up on increasingly lower volume. That is a big warning sign to me, though not an end all. I am partially in Fiat now. It was tough to "cash in" that paper wallet, but was a release as the chart really does scream "We might go down hard if good news doesn't it and someone decides to sell, like our weekend guy." What is super interesting is the way sellers are not forcing their sales for the most part. You see small walls as the price goes up. But they don't seem manipulative (they get bought into). I guess large holders are smart enough to not set the BTC down. Now, if something happens and BTC volume starts, we have to consider buying as the down move isn't guaranteed. Just today the Nikkei is down again 6% or so! Man, is that 25% in 4 weeks or so? |
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Haha, as usual, want to bet? Alas, I have no coin. What would you consider worth my putting up against 1BTC? (grin) How about stating some reasons or evidence? Don't worry about the bet, just give us some sound reasons. |
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You might be interested in watching bitcoin.de, the manipulation happens much more slowly there and is slightly different because the walls can by bypassed. There's a wall being pushed downwards atm, usually dumps come on gox not long after this starts happening. Its possible to see the manipulators bank details on bitcoin.de Funny, I thought of that after I posted. Bitcoin.de is interesting in that they don't have a bank. So, if someone is selling or buying, your transaction is going direct through them. You see the order book as a bunch of buy and sells that you can actually buy and sell on, jumping over orders if your wish. It is interesting in that a bid wall can be sold DIRECTLY into if you want. Not to say that every wall is manipulative, but the Bitcoin.de model is actually where we might see decentralized exchanges going, it would just involve a person acting as an escrow (which Bitcoin.de does in a sense.) It is a relatively good method, but due to delays you can't jump in and out easily. You also can buy and if the price drops just not send the money (though you have 12 hours to mark it as sent - which I think is waaaay too much.) The penalty is that (now anyway) they can ban you. Before, and I got burned by this, I just gave the guy a bad rating. (And at that time it was a 24 hour window to mark as paid). Regarding the video, I think the movement of the bid walls up, without every buying!, is clearly just trying to move the price, especially when it is followed by a dump at the top. IAS |
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@TheEmperor
I don't really think you got the point of the video. You didn't mention the bid walls that were progressively moved up, sort of channeling the price action and directing it in a certain direction. With the video going faster, you could clearly see the bid walls being moved up. Now, it doesn't always work, but if you are looking to buy and someone has a bid wall and you want some, you just put your bid above theirs. Enough of this walks the price up on lower volume.
IAS
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I'm really curious what some of you more seasoned traders have to say about this. I discovered this twitter feed from Sir Bits-A-Lot. https://twitter.com/SirBitsALot Great tweets and quite often. I recommend you quickly read some of his comments. Quite a few screen shots proving his points as well. He has some great commentary on price manipulation and a video as well. Really really interesting. He is a bull long term but mid to short term (6-12 months) he is a bear. Video linked here: http://sirbitsalot.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/bitcoin-price-manipulation/IAS |
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It seems the main outrage is about the way ERT was shut down, not that it was shut down. Reading between the lines its another very inefficient greek company with lots of political friends having an easy job. If they would try to just reduce the workforce unions would be up in arms. In a few weeks they are back on air with a fraction of the original staff with new contracts, less pay more work.
A lot of people will need to tight the belt in times to come lots of places on the globe. Bad news out of Greece does not rock the boat to much this days, its expected.
You missed the much BIGGER point. Yes, the news is covering that part of the issue. The much bigger problem is the downgrade. That downgrade can cause BIG problems, money can start exiting. Downgrading things like bonds and such causes huge problems. Not sure the effect on Greece but the article did mention money leaving. This accelerates things. They just added fuel to the fire. |
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VC's invested in services around Bitcoin. The price really doesn't matter to them.
Why not? There must be some link to price though. I wonder if a lower price would hasten acceptance. And if they see Bitcoin as all that (and they have said as much), I would think they are also buying (personally and perhaps as a corporate investment). |
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It is the only way to go, then they will reset all the worlds debts, introduce a digital coin or modify Bitcoin to where it's centralized, get rid of physical cash, and chip your butthole into the new world order.
This they that you speak of, is it the same they who are responsible for the current problems? Something tells me that isn't going to go over real well... same they, the crash might have already started Japan nikkei is having wild 600 point intraday swings. The Nikkei has always been volatile but this is still ridiculously volatile. Other world markets are in confirmed downtrends some are in bear markets, Greece and Japan, now it's the US turn to follow. If we don't get another massive QE pump the collapse may have already started, before year end. I knew you knew the they... (see below) The thing that is not 100% clear to me is how do the markets drop if they are pumping them full of money, in two ways really: 1 - The artificially low interest rates make many savers (e.g. Japan, Germany, US, etc.) move money to the stock market - This adds to the building bubble. 2 - Banks are moving their money into assets (e.g. stock markets). Now, how can that not be enough money to keep the markets going? Who is selling so much? It seems like the government is pumping the markets and thus allowing people with lots of shares to maybe start exiting before the crash? It isn't common Joe doing this. Anyone?  |
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Interesting point and the once again low volume worries me.
Have you seen todays Greece news? Another Cypress will change things...
Yes volume is very low, not really surprising if general public interest once again fades. Miners hoard and permabulls buy. The only news i read about greece is the closer of the state propaganda machine. Not really sure what to make of it, i guess it will happen everywhere. TV is a dying medium anyway and some private Broadcasters will always be around. Internet is the new king. Now here is something interesting. I posted this in another thread from that link: (Reuters) - Greece's government faced an internal revolt and public outrage on Wednesday over the sudden closure of state broadcaster ERT, hours after the humiliation of seeing its bourse downgraded to emerging market status. They changed it, it now says: (Reuters) - Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras faced a political revolt on Wednesday from his ruling coalition partners after the government abruptly switched the state broadcaster off the air in the middle of the night. It is still in the article, but no longer in the headline! Wow, Reuters doing what they can do for those that just read the bolded intro... |
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Little bit of a wall on Bitstamp
$107.00 130.10962618 $13,921.73
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A quote from the article: Also under consideration was the idea of creating a regulated exchange, which would be the world’s first. Not exactly what we want, but that would sure allow more people to come in as it would add certainty. I mean, there are exchanges that follow regulations now, but I'm sure they are hinting at something more "official"... |
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This is the "unknown" type of stuff that can make BTC run again. Another Cypress and we all saw what that did to BTC.
Actually, no, we didn't. Maybe you work better with pictures. "On 25 March 2013, a €10 billion bailout was announced in return for Cyprus..." Note, it was talked about before it happened. Just look at mid to late March and what followed. Clearly no coincidence. Sorry, not seeing. Do you have any proof? Or just a guess presented as a fact? My bad, must have been one of those coincidences... Look, i'm not saying it is completely impossible but not one person so far has been able to prove the connection. I was just checking if you were the first. And you weren't. There are some things that are difficult to prove. But, it seems like the Bitcoin community has mentioned the Cyprus event time and time again. I remember that time well and following the story and just seeing Bitcoin ramp up and then after the official Cyprus announcement it started the parabolic rise. No, we don't have proof. That is where poets come in, communicating things like love (not provable) with poetic words. Poets, poets, anyone??? |
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This is the "unknown" type of stuff that can make BTC run again. Another Cypress and we all saw what that did to BTC.
Actually, no, we didn't. Maybe you work better with pictures. "On 25 March 2013, a €10 billion bailout was announced in return for Cyprus..." Note, it was talked about before it happened. Just look at mid to late March and what followed. Clearly no coincidence.  Sorry, not seeing. Do you have any proof? Or just a guess presented as a fact? My bad, must have been one of those coincidences... |
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It is the only way to go, then they will reset all the worlds debts, introduce a digital coin or modify Bitcoin to where it's centralized, get rid of physical cash, and chip your butthole into the new world order.
This they that you speak of, is it the same they who are responsible for the current problems? Something tells me that isn't going to go over real well... |
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Here is another fresh reason we may see Bitcoin start a massive push again soon http://finance.yahoo.com/news/japan-adopt-bail-ins-force-181947896.htmlJapan is close to pulling a Cyprus and just stealing their "bail-in" money from account holders. Cyprus is not the technical mecca that Japan is, can you imagine how fast Bitcoin could spread through that country? Or Argentina where inflation is eating the Peso alive Or Greece who is on the brink of government and social collapse Or Slovenia needing a bailout soon problably Or the PMI in the Eurozone showing massive contraction across the board against already fragile governments and financial systems Or China who's massive overbuilding is beginning to contract, leading to a tank of the Yuan Or America and its continued economic pumping at the hands of Bernake and the Bankster Squad, which is just being drained into the world's biggest casino (aka Wall Street) where it is gambled away recklessly, many predicting a massive stock market crash within the next 6 months Or... The whole world is in trouble. Massive, inescapable trouble. Buckle in, this planet is about to get weird Bitcoin may be the only direction to go as the old economic system begins to burn down around us. Well, if you put it like that... Very dangerous to be trading in and out of BTC. Not saying not to do it, but you got to be buy your computer just in case. (If you are sitting in cash or even if we take a drop down, volume looks bad.) |
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This is the "unknown" type of stuff that can make BTC run again. Another Cypress and we all saw what that did to BTC.
Actually, no, we didn't. Maybe you work better with pictures. "On 25 March 2013, a €10 billion bailout was announced in return for Cyprus..." Note, it was talked about before it happened. Just look at mid to late March and what followed. Clearly no coincidence. |
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Interesting point and the once again low volume worries me.
Have you seen todays Greece news? Another Cypress will change things...
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This is the "unknown" type of stuff that can make BTC run again. Another Cypress and we all saw what that did to BTC. Greece back in crisis mode on state TV shutdown, downgrade http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-greece-tv-idUSBRE95A0ZN20130612 (Saw this mentioned in another thread btw.) (Reuters) - Greece's government faced an internal revolt and public outrage on Wednesday over the sudden closure of state broadcaster ERT, hours after the humiliation of seeing its bourse downgraded to emerging market status. The prism thing is starting to blow up. Seems like the NSA wasn't just spying on people, but perhaps on corporations in other countries as well. Just watch the first 10 mins or so of todays Max Keisser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J2tlG6gmnc&list=SPPszygYHA9K2ZtV_1KphSugBB7iZqbFyz&index=56Things are starting to build up again. This can get ugly... |
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