Then I only have one question to ask. Why are you blowing 10k of your coin when you know pirate isn't paying out 100%?
Loaded words detected. |
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There is only one company at this point that could be interested in this tale, Bitcoin Magazine. Very good move for them in fact, it'll increase readership significantly, at lest for that one issue. Either Matt has full story and knows how is it going to end so this bet is easy 10k BTC win for him, or he's been played by Pirate to push his plan further, Pirate won't pay and Matt is going to lose his coins or face.
So, this would be fraud by the magazine, matt, and the people "in the know". If what you suggest is the true. This wont end well either way. This kind of risk has to be factored in, but 10K BTC or whatever Bitcoin Magazine can pay Pirate makes very little difference considering the astronomical figures Pirate owes. Maybe someone has a decent estimate, but it's several hundred thousands and 10, 20 or 30K would be a small % of that. Or do you honestly think anyone values this potential article for millions of dollars? Fact: Bitcoin Magazine has nothing to do with this private wager between me and the general public. Fact: This is not a publicity scheme thought up by Bitcoin Magazine. In fact, many individuals in Bitcoin Magazine are reportedly pissed I even did this. Remember pirate said he has a deal with a company to publish his story after he winds down his operation ? I think pirate giving bitcoin magazine exclusive rights to the story and 10 000 btc is a marketing campaign. Whatever it is its entertaining to watch  I asked him for an interview on IRC: [23:55] <_matthew_> I wanted to do an interview with you for the Bitcoin Magazine once you've wound things down and can find the time for it. How do you feel about that?
[01:09] <pirateat40> I'm under contract to do a tell-all, so i can't do that anytime soon.
Keep those conspiracy theories coming! |
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There is only one company at this point that could be interested in this tale, Bitcoin Magazine. Very good move for them in fact, it'll increase readership significantly, at lest for that one issue. Either Matt has full story and knows how is it going to end so this bet is easy 10k BTC win for him, or he's been played by Pirate to push his plan further, Pirate won't pay and Matt is going to lose his coins or face.
So, this would be fraud by the magazine, matt, and the people "in the know". If what you suggest is the true. This wont end well either way. This kind of risk has to be factored in, but 10K BTC or whatever Bitcoin Magazine can pay Pirate makes very little difference considering the astronomical figures Pirate owes. Maybe someone has a decent estimate, but it's several hundred thousands and 10, 20 or 30K would be a small % of that. Or do you honestly think anyone values this potential article for millions of dollars? Fact: Bitcoin Magazine has nothing to do with this private wager between me and the general public. Fact: This is not a publicity scheme thought up by Bitcoin Magazine. In fact, many individuals in Bitcoin Magazine are reportedly pissed I even did this. |
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13gXf8aMSyd1NPBXK2oR7CJk3j8w8xmzVc
250 BTC
Upping my bet from earlier from 100 BTC to 250BTC total
Acknowledged. 1BoXaDDqwJMCPP3B4dbVeJNPwD3XV16233
5btc
I am completely confused about all of this, but hell, I want to be in on the action. Thanks for making the forums that much more exciting Matthew.
Acknowledged. 10BTC
12QwJRirBBdYqc5WWjyCvUuiHmJMLSrHxv
Acknowledged. I thought I had already posted this, but can I bump up my bet to 250 please?
Acknowledged. Is betting still open? If I can get the bet on my terms, I'm in I guess.
5btc
19j1Gum75LdYJ4ChHa919aWG1UMEcS8LGR
My bet is that pirate will default. Defaulting means not paying out 100% to all investors (including interest). Partial payment (regardless of any agreement by pirate) counts as a lost bet by Matt.
Acknowledged. (Sorry about the delay, I had been awake for about 48 hours and passed out.) I was messaged on IRC and notified that pirate has begun paying some individuals. This is somewhat reassuring and I will hold off on locking the thread to see how things develop. |
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As per my OP, I reserve the right to lock my thread temporarily at anytime and reopen as conditions change. I will be locking the thread from additional bets within the hour.
Thank you.
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Let me hedge some of my risk:
10 BTC 1Kc7q8YvgMuaMJZ2p9arkSsHUVXJP83dU7
Accepted. bet 800 BTC
19JGANpkz3iZ7Q1KiNTutEVqSpzALwBTGw
best of luck everyone
Denied. |
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Well as I said, if you are indeed very honnest, I will deeply apologize. And I appreciate the fact that you stay civilised even when accused I still dont understand why you did not make your topic with a big & trusted escrow so nobodies would have had any doubt of your legitimacy I'll do that last, just as a final show. I love keeping people in suspense and I want to teach people a lesson who are saying "Pirate is a scam because he's waiting". Those same people say "Matthew is a scam because he's waiting". If you had everyone bothering you, stalking you, harassing you, lying about you, wouldn't you want try to prove them wrong in a highly dramatic manner that makes them question the very foundation of their sick, pedantic reasoning? |
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He planned it as a Ponzi from the beginning. The decision was made a long time ago, he's only having fun with you. BTW his bet with nanotube defines a default as 14 days late on payout. The longest he can go without paying is September 3rd.
Late last week and early this week, it sure seemed like a ponzi, didn't it? But the farther out we go, the more I think that if he were going to just bail with the coins, he would have done it a long time ago. Wisdom., |
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He planned it as a Ponzi from the beginning. The decision was made a long time ago, he's only having fun with you.
How sure are you he's a ponzi? |
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Hi Matthew,
as it seams your brain disorder is now at a stage where you take a 13 post user good for 250$... (on the evil INTERNET, haha),
please let me up my bet and put in another additional
25btc
1FWMPAwHkqeTh9jdEo9YBoFztYbobZUPFS
Acknowledged. He just bet 25btc with a 13 (now 26) post user. Should I print a tabloid? Would you buy it? You know I PM users, find out their info, OTC ratings, businesses they operate etc, before accepting, right? Many times I get PMs far in advance and discuss, and the message you see asking to bet is actually hours later, and many times they send the coins to a trusted escrow (small amounts like 25 BTC and such). |
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... omitted ...
for the history! For Spain! FOR SCIENCE! @OP: Don't sweat it. You're only doing what you believe you need to do, I respect that. I will be closing the thread here in a bit and I am still not sure if I want to break it just for a bet. I -will- PM you when I make up my mind. Thanks for your patience. |
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Hi Matthew,
as it seams your brain disorder is now at a stage where you take a 13 post user good for 250$... (on the evil INTERNET, haha),
please let me up my bet and put in another additional
25btc
1FWMPAwHkqeTh9jdEo9YBoFztYbobZUPFS
Acknowledged. |
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25BTC
12a52kRZfsGiqAUJamSckE2cQMZT7SSQHo
I sold all my coins the days before the crash, still have some money at mt.gox to cover that bet. In case i lose and the BTC/EUR ratio goes up to much i demand as pirate himself 2 weeks to get the missing coins.
Approved. |
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Jesum.....have any of you bettors really thought this through?
Don't you think a guy willing to put up $100,000 with 2:1 just MIGHT know something you don't?
Alarm bells are ringing.
I don't think you know Matt very well. Doing crazy stupid shit is kind of his MO. I think this bet has turned from "Was it a Ponzi?" to "Is Matt crazy?" about 20 pages ago, and it's an easy bet, since the Pirate thing is extremely likely a Ponzi, and Matt is definitely crazy. Wisdom. |
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Since this thread has degraded into a MYRIAD of conspiracy theories as to why I could possibly be braver than anyone in this entire community, I'll leave you guys to your cowardess and confusion. I'm tired of repeating myself (now I understand how Pirate must feel) and it's almost time to lock the betting thread.
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This thing is fixed.
Lies. Care to bet that it's fixed since you're so sure? I'm sure I'll win. How's 10,000BTC? |
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My position is that once Occam's razor strongly suggests that some investment is a ponzi scheme, the burden of proof is on alleged ponzi operator to prove otherwise. And again demands to prove a negative (i.e. non existence of a viable biz model) is just a logical fallacy known as Ad Ignorantiam
So any business that operates now has to show you their books and operating procedures as soon as you question them? Okay, what if someone questions the Bitcoin Magazine. Are we going to show everyone all of our financial documents to prove we're not a sham? Who's business is it? "Oh but matthew, we're not forcing anyone to invest in us!" True! And neither is anyone else. Message to the community: Please be vocal, be less -abusive- about your voice and everyone will be happy. Harassment of people is unacceptable. If you try to tell them that you believe something is a ponzi, and they don't listen, let them lose their money. This is bitcoin, not USD. We have some freedoms. When you're leaving people alone to do what they want with their money, stop shouting at them from across the street "Shills!". This entire issue of mine is the -tone- of the community, not the concern. |
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Jesum.....have any of you bettors really thought this through?
Don't you think a guy willing to put up $100,000 with 2:1 just MIGHT know something you don't?
Alarm bells are ringing.
It's actually 1:1 (or "2 for 1") but that thought has crossed my mind as well. Ahhh, I see that now.....my bad. My point remains the same. Anytime someone is so eager to wager 100K, red flags should be going up everywhere. Is this many enough?  |
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You are attacking a lot of people that just had/have good intentions.
I'm not attacking anyone. You're confusing me with the other forum trolls. I am working alone. The people defending pirate the most had a direct financial benefit of continuing deposits, while the people claiming ponzi had nothing to gain.
That's what they say about bitcoiners in the real financial world. Bitcoin must be a scam. And you really think it's acceptable to attack these people?
Who is attacking? I'm equalizing. I didn't -go after- anyone, they came to me. BS&T was toxic to bitcoin.
See what I mean? This kind of talk has got to stop. People offering lower returns had a much harder time getting investments.
Poor babies. Free market sucks doesn't it? Maybe we should regulate it heavily. I wonder if there will be any suicides if pirate defaults? MMM had at least 50 (admittedly much much larger scheme).
That's ridiculous. Now you're telling me that it's fine for people to be abusive to others because if they're abusively trolling, harassing and stalking people who invest their money as they see fit, they might save a life? Nonsense. See if the people on "Team Ponzi" were wrong the consequences are MUCH lower than if the other side was wrong. And if it really hurt pirate so bad as to destroy his livelihood he could have disclosed at least some of the business model. With third party, signed NDA, audit. Of course never happened.
The consequences of idiots throwing money into idiotic things are not my concern. My concern is that this community needed equalizing on the attitude. Even in our closed 60+ member incubator organization, people were being attacked heavily for even having stock in Pirate. This shit is more ridiculous than you realize. If I want to throw $20 away, it's none of your business. If I put $20 in Pirate (which I did not btw because I think it's risky and ridiculously nontransparent), are you going to follow me on every thread and tell me that I'm a scammer and a shill? Maybe not you, but do you realize that's what the lynch mob here was doing? It's just ridiculous to act as if those people were out of line.
Please read my above statements then and maybe you'll see it differently. When the community has grown and learned to stop wasting money on stupid garbage (GLBSE? Seriously? There is absolute nothing legitimate about it. Why do we even bother trusting anything that comes from it? Nothing is legal, not a single success from it), I'll take your argument more seriously. In the meantime, we both agree that there are lots of idiots wasting money, but the difference is, not there's less idiots barking and annoying everyone. Seems better all around if you ask me. |
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