Bitcoin is simply too new for any locality to be "friendly". Banks consider Bitcoin to be high "risk" even if the entity/company has absolutely no cases of fraud, customer complaints, etc.
Among least Bitcoin friendly I would put USA, UK, and to a lesser extent Australia.
Among Bitcoin "friendly" I would put Canada. Probably more accurately is that Canada is Bitcoin neutral.*
The bigger issue is that most Bitcoin related enterprises (this doesn't mean companies buying or selling goods for Bitcoins) need to interface with the existing financial networks in some fashion. Banks however are private property and in most countries an account can be denied or closed for any reason or even a lack of reason as long as the Bank doesn't violate some protected class (race, religion, etc). Banks are highly risk prone (unless it has high rewards) and most startups aren't going to generate meaningful amounts of revenue for any major bank. Hence the default option is close the account. The account has unusual activity, no reason to investigate, close it. The account scores as high risk, don't negotiate contingencies just close it. The account is involved in business the bank has little knowledge or understanding of, don't ask the owner for information just close it. To overcome this on a large scale may require chartering a national bank or credit union that is at least Bitcoin neutral.
* Canada at least respects the rule of law. Canada has stated their EXISTING laws/regulations on MSB and Money Transmitters doesn't cover virtual currencies. This isn't to say Canada doesn't want to regulate Bitcoin related enterprises or that they won't pass new laws in the future however unlike the US they are honest enough to say "hey look Bitcoin likely should be regulated but current statutes don't give us that authority, to do so we need new ones". FinCEN on the other hand did a bunch of mental gymnastics (hint: if you need to define 18 new terms which don't exist in current law in your "guidance" in order for current law to "fit" you have just defacto written new law), to force Bitcoin a square peg into the MT round hole because it was the only one which was even sorta close. This has a whole range of unintended consequences and creates additional vagueness in compliance because some of the MT requirements simply don't even make sense when not dealing with a third party (i.e. MT regs are built around the concept of PERSON-A ----> Money Transmitter (regulated) ----> PERSON B).
actually bitcoin is not illegal in the places listed above. the best place to start a bitcoin business is europe, but as long as your offering legit goods or services for bitcoin you can pretty much start anywhere. so if everyone started acting like the real world where there's only handfuls of gold miners /exchangers in an area but millions of retailers. that is how bitcoin can and should legally expand. everyone seems to be under the misguided concept that the only way to make money is through mining or forex exchanging. where i am (in the UK) my bank manager knows about bitcoin, knows the risks, and knows me. yet has no problems allowing me to do business with bitcoins. the same with many countries. the problem lies where bitcoin entrepreneurs suddenly think that because they own bitcoin, they can also act anonymously when it comes to their fiat trades too. this actual thread should not be, which country is the most bitcoin friendly.. but which country has the cheapest money transmission licences. as its the licence to play with large amounts of FIAT that is the problem.. not bitcoin so that the naive guys that are not finance experts can afford the licences, to naively become an exchange and make their money. i say naively because there's millions of other ways to make money and there are some people with financial exchange experience that can afford the licences, which should be doing it instead. purely on the bases they have better money management skills to be trusted with other peoples money. there needs to be a big push away from exchanges and mining, and more of a push on retail start ups. its all about knowing the rules and following them. and to not be an "teentrepreneur" rebelling against the 'man' like a teenager rebels against parents. but i would love to see a pricelist per country/province for money transmission licences |
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id love to see the top guys of industry who want bitcoins. offer their services/products instead of investing their profits in bitcoin
EG imagine bill gates sell microsoft products for bitcoins. instead of selling them for fiat and then using his FIAT profit to buy bitcoin
imagine richard branson offer airline/rail tickets, holiday reservations, music and dvd's for bitcoin. instead of using their fiat profit to buy bitcoin.
i think all of the big investors who own businesses should no longer just buy bitcoins. but to trade their products for bitcoin to get their investment requirements.
the problem is that bitcoin seems to still be for the basement dweller crowd or the 'teentrepreneurs' (teenage entrepeuners)
that are starting up new stuff, without past/high reputation to help them become the next big thing.
even places like walmart should get their main CEO to offer online ordering bitcoin payment options. and then offer to sell those bitcoins to their staff (to get reimbursed) or keep as bitcoin for the CEO's own personal investment fund
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technically not impossible
if you had under 10btc you could easily buy CNC coin at btc-e.com for 0.00048 and sell in a reasonably short time for 0.00049 giving you over 1% after fee's
but the thing is that the volume is low so throwing hundreds of bitcoin into one order price causes a wall which then stagnates the price.
that being said the profitability is not impossible. but trusting a stranger to look after you money and to also sweat their guts out, risk their reputation and give you profits instead of keeping them...... is not as easy to find.
basic rules of any money management. whether fiat or crypto. only give someone something you don't care losing if you don't know them or unable to meet them to slap them with a wet fish if they don't repay.
and if you personally are not confident about market trading i would not recommend trying to profit through market trading. instead start up a shop, sell your household products (like an online garage sale/ebay style)
make something that may be useful to others,
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it doesnt have a blockchain.. so its just another world of warcraft gold/facebook credit/amazon coin...
created out of thin air and centralised.. not really a threat to bitcoin just a way to reduce international licence fee's by doing all of their FIAT transactions from one office and use the other international offices for their special coin transactions.
plus only really useful for itunes customers.
so not really a new economy creator either
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actually buying bitcoins changes nothing in relation to banks.
FIAT still circulates around. so whether you have bought a case of baked beans or bitcoins, fiat is still changing hands.
whether i hand my FIAT to a retailer, or a bitcoin exchanger. it still circulates and sits in bank accounts. which banks love.
it wont be untill wages and salaries are paid in bitcoins for there to be less FIAT required in circulation, will we see any impact.
There is a realty business that pays their employees in Bitcoin if they want. Can't find it though. Isn't there another internet business that also allows their employees to get payment in Bitcoin? bitcoin foundation memory dealers bitpay BFL Avalon bitinstant to name a few, but combined thats only just over 100 employee's out of the billions around the world still passing FIAT between bank accounts. as an investor i use to invest in projects which had any links to bitcoin community. now im concentrating on businesses that truely wish to enter the economy. meaning opening grocery stores, DIY stores, electrical stores where staff are paid in bitcoin. every noob entering the community are in a trance that the only way to make bitcoin is through mining, and that alone is 'stickin it to the man' which isnt the case |
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actually buying bitcoins changes nothing in relation to banks.
FIAT still circulates around. so whether you have bought a case of baked beans or bitcoins, fiat is still changing hands.
whether i hand my FIAT to a retailer, or a bitcoin exchanger. it still circulates and sits in bank accounts. which banks love.
it wont be untill wages and salaries are paid in bitcoins for there to be less FIAT required in circulation, will we see any impact.
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Sorry if this is already on this forum but when I saw bitcoin hit 250 dollars, yet I had heard nearly NOTHING in the news about people who got rich ... i was confused.
Surely there must be hundreds of people out there who literally did cash out and buy their own plane or something.
Im surprised there is nothing in the news about it.
I even went back to April 1 on this forum and I see no threads with people saying "I just made 2 million dollars!" Why?
Clearly this would be for those who cashed out, so they are not targets for hacking . ... but how cool would it be to hear some stories about people who had success?
I did find one article saying 10 people who got rich, and it listed their names (facebook twins, etc) but it really didn't mention how much they made, or what they did with it.
-Burger-
Having watched a few shows about lottery winners who ended up having little to no wealth later on, it becomes apparent that one of the fastest ways to lose a lot of new money is when others start finding out that you have it. My guess is most people who made a lot of money on a cryptocurrency would also inherently understand the value of privacy. A lot of them might not also be thinking in terms of fiat any more! very true, i never discuss exact value's or business partners i invest in or any of that stuff.. especially with the no charge back blah blah, bitcoin does have alot of people that try sniffing out the rich guys and attempting to become their best friends. luckily i and a few others have stayed away from "bitcoin rich list addresses" and thats how it should be |
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this is only an issue for closed source software, but i think that instead of just allowing any call to be listened into the software providers should program a key into each internet call or each username. and only release this key when FBI produce a warrant showing that they have good reason to listen into username XYZ123.
for instance with telephone systems it should have been set that a phone company only releases recordings or access to a specific persons phone line on production of a warrant that stipulates a time-frame of x hours/day/weeks they are allowed access. and not just a open gateway to listen into anyone, any time for however long they like.
some countries say they have these laws inplace, but telephone/software companies just gave full access and hoped the government agencies would self regulate their actions to only access calls when there is good evidence to do so. which then allowed the authorities to side step certain laws by making up evidence and require only their chief/supervisor to authorise the snooping in.
this is almost as bad as allowing the government to have a key vut of your house doors, microphones fitted in the home and also access to your bank account.
im glad im not american.. the land of the free.........
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although joining forces with bitangels increases the available funds the group can share out to community /business projects. i have found that by combining into one group limits the amount of contracts/businesses it can help.
in the end i have found they end up giving more generously to a limited amount of start ups instead of helping more start ups expand.
i think more then one investment group is the way forward. that way each group can begin specialising in supporting certain niche's EG
one investment group could specialise in supporting ASICS, another can help retailers, etc etc. that way the groups are not just offering cash, but expertise aswell to insure a return on their investment.
many investment groups that have no speciality just hand out the money get the recipients to sign a legal binding contract and then simply wait for pay day to get a return.
im glad that bitangels and coin angels specialise in businesses that know and understand blockchains, but this may not be diverse enough.
great oppertunities are there and i know from first hand experience, its not always all about the money a business requires. i have helped out businesses with both funds and advice and the advise seems more appreciated then the funds. in a few scenario's businesses have repaid investments earlier as the advice ensured business growth or not requiring to spend as much, which helped both the investor and the business.
coinangels. welcome to the community, there is ALOT of potential here. good luck
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Do we not have a currency symbol already? -> ฿
the capital B with a vertical line is very very close to the thailand baht symbol, which could bring on problems later. |
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having a nice little nest egg before bitcoins came into my life here is what i actually done
50% bitcoin
40% secure my housing/lifestyle
10% FIAT for those surprise emergencies that always come up
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everyone here is talking about fincen regulating bitcoin..
and here was me thinking bitcoin was free from national governments. i myself dont do drugs and hate the fact that bitcoin WAS (pre2012) propagandised as the drug dealers currency. but i far prefer the drug taint to be diluted down through natural mainstreaming efforts of adding new legit businesses to the mix. and NOT through regulating bitcoin, which would involve seizing coins/taxing coins which in the end would result in government ownership.
imagine the government taking 20% of your coins per year.. add on the coins seized through crimes, aswell as non crime related coins found in the same wallet address as crime tainted coins, within 5 years they own the majority stake.
hundreds of years ago a group of people volunteered that they needed a leader to control the masses and volunteered that some basic rules and laws should be in place to keep the peace.. now look how this volunteered group we call government own our FIAT spending arses!
oh well if bitcoin does become regulated by the bitcoin foundation.. there is always litecoin
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bitcoincard linked to a french guy, using a UK domain...
with the price conversion on the website as dollars.
hmmmm... amateur.. he aint gonna see any of my coins. nothing seems legit.
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words are only insulting if used in an insulting way..
like the N(nigerian) word.
which inside the culteral circle translates loosely to the term Bro.
but if person not from the same neighbourhood/culture used it. they are obviously not close enough to refer to each other as bro. then using the N word would be considered a insult.
so wear the nerd badge with honour if your skills from being a nerd make you wealthy. but do take an offence if called a basement dwelling nerd with no hope of success
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over 20 posts of mis-understandings and waffle..
so lets put it into laymans terms for like the 5th thread of misunderstandings.
bitcoin itself is not regulatable.
FIAT is.
fiat is the bank notes and coins with the trademarked symbols of the government EG $ and £. the regulations call these REAL Currencies.
the SUBSTITUTE / CONVERTIBLE currencies are those that are easily recognised and convertable into bank notes and coins because their balance amount equals the same as a bank note
EG 10$ on a digital database can be easily converted into a $10 bank note
EG 46 bunny coins CANNOT be easily recognised and converted into a $10 bank note
those online penny per click websites and services offering digital balances that are recognisable have to be regulated. so advertising firms, with dollar/pound balances need regulation.
those websites and services offering credits, chips, coins where the numeric balance value does not instantly relate to a FIAT value do not need regulation.
so in short bitcoinQT, electrum, cgminer,etc does not need regulation, world of warcraft, does not need regulation, and so on.
FIAT gateways that handle FIAT or the digital form of FIAT DO need regulation.
so this is why amazon is trying amazon coins. so that it only has one 'office' that converts fiat to amazon coins (i beleive it to be in ireland due to cheap licences) and the rest of the planet it just moves amazon coins around. thus not requiring licences for every country on the planet.
the trick is this.
show a balance of 10.00 (even without trademarked government symbols) which can be redeemed for $10. you need regulations
show a balance of 0.078125($10 of bitcoin) which requires calculations to calculate a fiat value, you dont need regulations. UNLESS your service also touches FIAT
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there are many ladies in finance and computing industries. but they know from experience most of these nerd conventions end up as being a bunch of guys hounding them and trying to act smart, thinking they can get into the girls pants because she has similar interests.
most women don't want to be hounded at such events, they go there for the professional reasons of learning the economy. most guys though at first go there for the same reason, but due to the fact that most nerds are single.. it soon changes to a mood of chasing girls.
i have been to such conferences and seen times where one girl had like 7 guys circled around her. atfirst i thought she was a Rep of a business. but after listening in for just 20 seconds i soon learnt the conversations were more 'speed date' conversations... poor lass, one sight of cleavage and BTC transforms to the immature cavemen drawing of boobs and no longer bitcoin
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technically everything has a price. buying up MTGOX gets the buyer the trademark bitcoin buying up the bitcoin foundation gets the buyer the main client program buying up electrum gets the buyer the second main client program buying up blockchain.info gets the buyer the main hot wallet API caller(third main client service) yes i know there are freedoms for people to then re-invent new clients that ignore any new rules a new buyer of the above brings to the system and we then just let them play with their little fork and this new re-invention by the masses uses the original rules fork, but communicating the changes and getting everything moved across would cause some disruption which could then be used to manipulate the markets on the mass fork. and yes i know that within an hour-week the manipulation may settle down. but who knows, the manipulation may have been enough to gather a large quantity of bitcoin. not impossible for world governments to combine their efforts to achieve this.. just impractical and unnessessary, after all if they did get a full victory.. there is always litecoin  |
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What is the free state project?
proof you don't have a clue about fundamentals required, or gone deeper into research apart from page one google searches of final designs for buildings. its good you show final design eco houses but you have no clue about land permits, laws, utility company, sewerage requirements of a town. this is not a troll, you just hate seeing everyone see through your lack of credibility and think ignoring people and starting a new thread will somehow make people believe you more. 200 scientists this time concentrating on Neurogenesis and Synaptogenesis research. last time it was 200 creative people like entrepreneurs, writers, artists, programmers. still ignoring the fundamentals of requiring shop workers, chef's for your restaurant.. oops i mean fast food establishment... oops i mean cyber cafe.. repairmen, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, construction workers, police, lawyers, judges, teachers. oh and if 200 are now scientists instead of creative people.. that is still the personality type not desiring manual labour. so don't pull the wool over peoples eyes that the 200 people will do it all themselves. as they have their own scientific interests that come first. stop brain farting wet dreams. and stand away from the computer for just one day. and construct your idea's from behind the scenes of the fundamentals.. and stop spouting out the glittering neon signs of the final design. many have told you about freestate project before yet you ignore it. We would have a town government now the utopian dream of last week of a free town is now just another town like all the rest |
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It's not Bitcoin, it's an alt-coin so thus should be moved there in my opinion. The Bitcoin discussion page doesn't give any space to other alt-coin and Ripple should be no different. We're just advertising it by letting is hang out up here.
ripple is not a alt-coin.. ripple is an exchange, so technically would be in the services section XRP is not a crypto coin, it has no minable blockchain, much like amazon coin, postal stamps, facebook credits Discussion of XRP could move to the alt-coin section, but discussion of Ripple as a distributed exchange should stay right here. The lack of distributed exchanges is one of Bitcoin's biggest problems and deserves a lot of attention.
+100 if only more of us realised the main use of ripple is to move bitcoins, litecoins, fiat between people. and the fee for this task is a postage stamp known as XRP. |
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What exactly are you trying to accomplish by pointing this out?
I gather that you don't like Vessenes, but beyond that: Point == Missed.
I wasn't making a point to you. This post is directed at Peter. I'd like him to explain who exactly he is "crushing". crushing fiat transmitters that claim to be legit and trustworthy with our FIAT. then later found out they are not legit fiat transmitters. its all about fiat..... meanwhile bitcoin remains unaffected. if you think that bitcoin has been affected then you do not know bitcoin. please learn the non-exchange methods of obtaining bitcoin. the true, original way it was supposed to be dispursed. hint peer-to-peer (localbitcoin / irc-otc) style |
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