dumb is a harsh word...

i would say this is s newbie/rookie mistake. to learn from.

that is all.

nothing more will come from it by thinking you have a bats hell of a chance of getting any return, so move forward and realise  the pains of selling on ebay using fiat are hurting many merchants. let alone bitcoin traders just using paypal as a payment processer. then you will see the benefits of bitcoin that things such as bitcoin chargebacks dont exist,are just one of the reasons to love bitcoin even more.

value is as you say and the value to a miner has to be above its COST or is not any beneficial value to them to mine any more. hense the LOW price is the beneficial value to miners to keep producing.. same story goes with farming too, there is a cut off point where farmers will give up making and selling their harvests. and thats the intrinsic value of the food you eat.

not the retail price you see at walmart!!

this is where market makers and profiteers have warped peoples minds to make you believe their inflated prices are of value.
where you see retail shops offering food items £$1 more expensive then their competitor but if they put a "value price" sticker on the price tag, the sheeple think its automatically the best price they will find as its not worth the retailer selling it if it was any cheaper.

plus i never said the price will never go below $110 what i SUGGESTING is that if it goes below the mining cos profitability then that is the point to start asking questions about bubbles bursting or whats the big news story that could cause this. anything above mining cost/value/profitability line. is based on mark makers playing with the price. which you should all calm down about and not 'worry' about the swings, just use them to your advantage to gain profit from if day trading

speculation price/market price changed.

intrinsic value has not.

check out my chart. u will see each month the low (intrinsic value). now draw a line to June and that will put a estimated intrinsic value of about $110.

meaning the point where no one is dumb enough to sell below..

so expect price swings ABOVE $110 but if it goes below $110.. then that is where you should be asking what the big problem is.

anything else is just speculation based on supply and demand

Definition of 'Intrinsic Value'
1. The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value.

golds true value comes from its costs. its then the markets that play around with the price due to how useful it is... hint supply and demand.

EG.
gold miners would mine it. and sell it to markets. they would NEVER sell it at a loss of how much it cost to dig it up. so thats its actual intrinsic value.

the markets will THEN see there is lots of demand so the markets will see an opportunity to raise the price because of demand (usefulness). this is not true value... that's market value

EG. a business may have a billion dollar idea.. thats its market value. but currently the actual assets of the business are only worth 10million. thats its intrinsic value

bitcoin miners asset are its gpu's, electricity and time taken. calculate that together to get its intrinsic value. once sold the markets can play around with the price due to demand.

looking at a bank note from a real working human beings perspective. i personally dont see a bank note as being x grams of gold, or y worth of government debt. or even z worth of computer parts or bread i can buy.

i see it as the A amount of minutes/hours i had to work to get it in my salary plus the quality of that time based on my expertise/skills.

so for me the best guess for the lowest intrinsic value of a bank note is mimimum wage..

look at gold. the miners dont just throw a random number out, they look at the price of the excavators, the deisel used, the costs of digging on the land and the time taken to then get gold.

they set this as their minimal value of selling it to traders. ofcourse they will try for more.. but for the lowest value point the  is basically the labour costs of digging gold.

no one, unless insane or having no other choice would happily sell at a loss compared to creation costs.

the same with bitcoin, there is speculation (bitcoin high price) but if you look at the low price and put some thought behind it, no sane person would sell bitcoin cheaper then the electrical/time costs of making that coin. making mining costs the intrinsic value, much like minimum wage is for bank notes

so don't worry about bitcoin high prices as they are pure speculation. use the low price as your bases of value. bitcoin bubble of 2013 never burst as the true value has been on a constant rise

clever boy.. now you see my point of my first post.. the money in your pocket is not yours. it belongs to the government. your just "entitled" to hold it. and using if for a crime loses you that entitlement.

now go back to my second post and read UNLIKE music.. and now you will see its not a comparison of 2 things owned by you, but a clarification on the differences.

this may shed a little light to answer a bit of your questions

https://mtgox.com/pdf/20130528_okpay_statement.pdf

read this

keyword entitles..

if you break the law your no longer entitled to the money. the government own the money and they choose who is entitled to it.

you can also tell its government property because of counterfeiting laws.

unlike music. if you make a song, you can produce as many copies as you like and you get to say and be incontrol of who else can make copies or if you even allow them to make copies.. because its your property..

money is not your property.. you are just an entitled bearer(holder) of it. do something illegal, and you will lose your entitlements.

maybe my last post should have used the word entitlement as oppose to licence to use

+1 voted

its not about getting their cut. fiat is owned by the governments. so its not a cut.. they own it all anyways.. all they want is to control who has it and how much those that have it use for crimes.

the fiat in your pocket is not yours.. it is the governments, they just have a free licence for citizens of that country to use, unless it is found to be used for crimes, where they can revoke your freedom to use their property (take your fiat off you).

now your seeing the benefit of bitcoin.. its not theirs!!

EG out of 3 acres of personal ownership over 2 acres will be used just to have enough farm area to grow crops and house livestock just for the family alone.

leaving 1 acres for personal housing/personal recreation space.

now its already worked out that 200 creative minds wont make a functional town, as many non creative mind job roles are required.
as noted before. police, judges, vets, teachers, etc.... and most creative people wont want to slaughter their own animals, so a slaughterman /butcher is needed.

and now he wants a community farm where other items are grown to sell on. im estimating he will require 3000 acres. not 600.

3000 acres is a 3 mile by 3 mile area. which is about right for all of the industry and buildings ontop of the residential dwellings he promises. where less then 1 square mile is for buildings/dwellings. and the other 2 square miles is farmland to ensure sustainability.

ignoring finshaggys brain farts that dont get past the 30 second window of his initial idea. but instead mutates into a new idea..

anyone interested in a bitcoin town and wants to learn whats needed to get it to happen..

http://galtsgulchchile.com/

http://freestateproject.org/

hopefully finshaggy will stop expanding how great his utopia is, and start looking into the fundementals

my moto is never trust anyone  with your life savings that you cant meet and slap with a wet fish, that being said for smaller less life altering amounts having an escrow service limits the chances of needing to slap people around.

i would trust koolio as an escrow service. but just remember if its your life savings think hard before doing any deals, try not to do pay upfront deals with someone you know nothing about. learn something about them atleast.

koolio has my trust and respect for smaller amounts. but even a family member i wouldnt trust with life savings. so just be careful that you don't request delivery proof of a package. which is given.. and then the item received is a nicely wrapped brick/phonebook.

request proof of ownership of the product EG a personalised photo with your name handwritten on a piece of paper with the item also in view. reducing the chances of being sold a google image and empty promises

the problem with wealth distribution is not bitcoin related. its user related.

bill gates is not a rich man because he mined gold in the 1980's
oprah winfrey . ditto ditto ditto

mining is just one way to become wealthy.

and if you compare it to gold mining, the actual people doing the mining.. the african slaves etc are not billionaires, its the traders that play the markets.

infact inventing a product / service can make you more wealthy then someone digging for gold/satoshi dust each day.

the secret is to not sit on your hands saying "i can't be an elite because....." but instead "lets make a plan to do something"

bitcoin has opened up new freedoms for self employed people to accept something of value for their labour without it having to be fiat.

its opened up opportunities for these self employed people to then send their earnings to other countries without the need of banks and bureaucracy.

with my bitcoins i can get on a plane and meet someone at the vacation destination and convert my coin to their native currency without the need of travellers cheques, special internationally accepted credit cards, or needing the services of banks, 'bureau de change', travel-ex, etc.

to set up a website, i don't need to pay X per month with a card processing company.

the whole entrepreneurial hurdles and paperwork has become less and less by just using bitcoin. Look at all the licence requirements exchanges need for handling FIAT. and ask yourself, wouldn't it be great if there was no direct need for fiat, think of something everyone needs that would work even better without the need of FIAT.. and make that your plan.

then you will become one of the elite.

for me food is an essential which is why for the last year i have been casually prompting the likes of foodler. just-eat, and other food delivery establishments. which are slowing becoming interested.

next stage is getting wholesalers, suppliers, manufacturers to accept bitcoin so that its even easier to convince retailers that get stock from these suppliers to shift away from fiat.(well maybe not shift away, but easier to include bitcoin)

it's not about finding uses, it's about creating uses.

in history, pubs, shops were not found, they were created

You intend to buy btc at an exchange, but want others to hand you Thiers to cash out for your farm?

I guess you missed out the half a dozen routes you could have taken to not require bit coin investors.

Tip:
Find a cheap farm shop buy veg, sell veg...
Firstly compared to just speculatively buying coin direct from fiat, at let's say a high of $138. Buying just $90 of veg at wholesale price can be sold for profit to net you a whole bit coin.
Sell that bit coin for fiat. Get a return of over $130, after fee's. Rinse repeat, while you wait till next year to buy land, as its a bit late to buy land churn the soil, sow the seed to get a harvest complete by this summer.

So do some wholesale-retail  until winter so that your ready for buying land, to start growing next year, then next year you will have the service running, but becoming more self reliant on stock as oppose to buying in... which means less cashing out

Yes the key is getting proper legit business onboard, 'teentrepreneurs' starting small shops are great but pushing established businesses across to bit coin is a massive boost.
Having reliable infrastructure, services and exchanges who deal with fiat actually having the required licenses is another thing to concentrate on, before worrying about population coverage

short answer: yes and no

recharge is indeed a prepaid/debitcard system. but with all prepaid debit card systems there are limitations.
i see your a UK guy so ill use UK wording based on the prepayment service providers i have spoken with.

each Brand of prepaid card has a corporate prepaid card account for the retailer/business which money gets deposited to and the controller of the account then credits each card balance within its scheme.

so lets say you have a Shell Petrol station prepaid card and so does a friend. it is easy and straight forward to credit/swap balances with other users of the same brand card scheme and i beleive all prepayment cards offer easy transfers within the same scheme. because ultimately there is only one physical bank account and all the clients/customers of the scheme are just balances of a ledger of that single corporate account.

now lets say shell petrol stations and virgin megastores used the same card issuer to do their branding. it is also possible to move the funds through each other via the corporate accounts. but this is up to the retail stores agree to offer this and they may add fee's.due to the fact that the retailers would then need to be licenced money transmitters

but if for instance Shell dealt with visa directly. but virgin megastores used a prepayment card issuer. it is even harder to move the money, not impossible and more then likely not free.. due to the fact that the retailers would then need to be licenced money transmitters

to think the only way to make bitcoin is through mining, is like ssaying the only way to get hold of a gold necklace is to drive to a gold rich area with a mechanical excavator.

how about start up a business that sells products, such as groceries, computer parts.
lets pretend you have only $10 on you. so you find something worth $13 retail, which you can buy for $10 wholesale..

you then sell it for 0.12BTC ($15.60 to cover shipping) you then cash out 0.1BTC ($13) send the item to the customer.

and leave 0.02BTC in your bitcoin wallet.

now imagine you have hundreds of different products and thousands of customers.... and realise. mining is not the only way, retail is. or you could always work for a bitcoin business and get paid a wage in bitcoins. and realise mining is not the only way, employment is.

welcome to the new ECONOMY of bitcoin. its not just about mining

if you have rags that are good enough quality to sell for fiat. sell them for bitcoin  

edit: actually i just washed my hands and i suddenly need a rag to dry my hands. how much bitcoin will you sell your rags for, there is always a demand for rags.