gotta disagree with OP opinion.

not helping his own transactions get verified along with others is just going to cause confirmations to take even longer if everyone avoided them.

then they would complain of confirm speeds being too slow they wont want to trade.

i wouldn't say if u don't like it go away like the dev's did, but i would say if you want to use a less clogged up client that still validates bocks, invent one.. or pay the dev's to fix the bugs.

the dev's are not slaves, if you want something bad enough invent it urself or pay a bounty to get it.

or just continue as u are and accept the situation u are in.. just dont go shouting for everyone to join you on non verifying clients as you are just going to make ur own confirmation times slower as an end result of everyone not using verifying clients.

subjective theory. is about supply and demand which is what a retailer would work out as the value.. EG reccommended retail price which can be anything from my 500th of BTC commodity price to a GUESSSSSSSSSS i made of the retail price of 50th.

that 50th (0.02btc) could be any number.

but to get to the first step of globalising BTC u need to get commodity prices sorted.

as for the labor theory.. thats based on setting wage based on how much production can be done..

which is where slavery started.. but in modern days a minimum wage needs to be set to avoid the slavery days of distant decades we have tried to forget about. and then base product price on those costs. note i said theories. not rules

thus making the world a fairer place.

but hey everyone has their own opinion.. i personally dont want to be the slave lord whipping people so i can be rich at the expense of others. i want an equal world where if im in control of my money i can help other people out.. others have the wannabe rich mentality..

money in the pocket is not as valuable as the happiness in your face.

why use rules and theories already in existance, which have resulted in the current epic failure of current economic status of FIAT. we can set our own theories on how to create value

i look forward to the day u can buy a banana for X bitcoin and pay ur rent with YYY bitcoin. with no mention of FIAT in the trade talk at all..

bitcoin would need to develop a commodity pricing index to use as a comparison for true btc value to be able to go main stream.
the first step is setting a minimum/average wage and look at how much product can be made in that time to get a cost value.

EG how much banana was picked from the tree in a day divided by a days worth of minimum wage = banana costs

EG if u can mine 1BTC a day thats ur daily wage.. if someone can pick 500 banana's in a day then a single banana would be worth 500th of a bitcoin(0.002) for that banana picker.

which by the time food distributors get all the banana's to shops and all the profit/expenses are calculated in bitcoins a banana might end up being worth 50th of a bitcoin..(0.02) based on each level of the production/delivery/retailer getting a profit which would still be value.

which if using those same maths in FIAT terms
US average minimum wage $7.25 =15c banana
UK average minimum wage £6.19 =12p banana

short answer:
ASICS will mean the difficulty will increase dramatically. cutting out all the hobbiests just using standardised equipment from mining. that to continue mining you need to get the big rigs in.

knowing that difficulty is set by only wanting to 'release' x amount of coins in a 4 year period between each reward halving it will be impossible to grab the 21million sooner then expected.
all you would do by having a ASIC farm is grab more of that allotted 4 year periods coins then another person would. where by those that own ASIC farms will become the richest earners, and those owning lesser equipment will be the poorer earners.

the other part of the topic.
the 21mil will never completely, end. as the halving will just divide and divide endlessly until its too expensive to mine for just a hand full of satoshis in the 4 years.

but transaction fee's will subsidise the rewards. which will become more like a Value Added Tax on transactions which in a few decades will need to be checked that the fee's dont increase just to keep miners happy at the expense of traders.

but thats decades away..

thanks for the observations

7H15 M3553G3 53RV35 70 PR0V3 0UR M1ND5 C4N D0 W0ND3RFUL 7H1N65.

if u can understand the message above the punctuation or grammar are not the most important things the mind has to worry about.

if i was to be writing a legal document i would indeed use precise grammar and proper punctuation. but i am leaving this chat as a casual conversation.

seeing what you can get for a bitcoin, is still leaving others to dictate price. im talking about true self control.

'bartering'/negotiating

eg u go to a garage sale the person is selling things, they cant be bothered to price everything to its value elsewhere in the world so they just give it a fair value in their opinion to how much they want in their hand at the end of the day. you come along and see something you like. you dont just pay the displayed price like what most 'consumers' have been trained to do. you negotiate a price that satisfies both of you.
or

you see a luxurious apartment and u immediately want to move in and you believe its worth half your weekly earnings just for that luxury
or
for instance if someone said i will clean your house for 5 weeks. u wont think about minimum wage amounts ud think about how much peace of mind it will give u and how much more you can do with your day without having to clean, and ud base the price of their service on that as well as how qualified they are and how good of a job they do.


now thats true financial freedom without centralisation involvement.

im not saying i want anything, never said i wanted bitcoin earners to do anything..

im just saying to imagine the possibilities - negatives and positives of if we treated bitcoin the way the guys in the medieval times traded before centralisation (the gold value/fiat value) came around.

im talking hypothetically imagine, and discuss. not take action lol so relax, no one can control how you do things, but talking is free..

imagine the possibilities or ramifications of never having fiat to compare to.

movie intime.. great movie, yes totally different world to the fiat world... but without the having to wait till ur 25 to get ur currency and no 1 years of free earnings when u turn 25 lol

not sure if i should take that as a comedical comment that i work for the car manufacturer Fiat.
or the fact that my real life job in medical industry continues and i have not yet took the leap into making crypto my full time job..

crypto can be done via PC anywhere, so why retire early limiting income. this is my retirement fund for a luxury life but being 29 im still to young to want to retire.. ask me again in 6 years.

eg my rent is 25% my real world income.

so if i paid using bitcoin id pay 25% of my bitcoin income.. id probably only get a shoe box of an apartment from my current earnings but if i wanted a luxury apartment id have to give myself a pay rise (get more rigs running)


understandable but imagine a world where fiat never existed to use as a comparison.. imagine the possibilities

it doesnt have to be mtgox, but i bet u use fiat as your indicator of value

i dont use U.S 'reserve' for my real world financial indicator.
im british.

my point being is ignore fiat as your tool for value. what would bitcoin be like if we just used time as value

before i explain how, i want you to understand the difference between centralised and controlled.

centralised is where there is one main value indicator that everyone uses to make trading fair for both parties. in fiat terms the value "use to" represent gold value. which banks decided.

the banks decide value and governments control how we use it with laws and taxes.

luckily there is no 'control' but there is a centralised value for bitcoin

so back to the point. bitcoin is centralised but not controlled. i say this as the huge majority of people trading base the value of bitcoin on MTGox prices. so lets treat mtgox like the national reserve.. just without the gold inside.... lol

imagine a bitcoin world where people did not trade based on a FIAT value conversion but based on TIME. i said it in another thread but il say it here,

in medieval times a butcher would spend half an hour preparing a succulent beef steak, and would trade it for half an hour with a prostitute or for 2 flagons of ale.

in modern terms without thinking about the FIAT value imagine a days wage allowed you to go out in the evening to a bar, get so drunk you score with the ugliest woman you see and get a fast food meal at the end of the night.

again forgetting about fiat value. imagine we traded based on how many bitcoins we mine in one day being able to get that same evenings experience, or thinking that buying that gpu is worth 5 days of bitcoin labour.

reply with thoughts

some of the OP comments i agree with but this one i do not


kinda sounded like if u dont like TBF u cant use bitcoin..

i use litecoin and BTC.. i certainly wont drop BTC if i in future disagree with TBF. its not like they are the police saying.. if u dont like our laws F**k off to a different country.

if i do not like them i just dont become a member and continue using bitcoin. i have seen no advantages a member personally gets/receives apart from deciding what the programmers next projects are.

so i do not see any major things against TBF, but i dont see big advantages to being a member either.

well as ur paying a fee then someone in the foundation should vet the 100 posts minimum requirement for relevance and scope of the conversations to validate if real person or bot creation.

after all giving out real life identification requires vetting too, although people can simply use a phone book or give the name of their neighbour, many other real life ways of faking info..

i am just saying having no verification makes it easy to double vote. but why personal info. i dont appear on the phone book in my country, (saves getting annoying sales calls) so how would they validate my real life info..

unless they have government database access(for accurate validation) i cant see benefits in requiring real life info as opposed to well established online identity.

about the use of real life identities for voting?

why?

i personally have nothing to hide, but i see no benefit in making anyones real life identities a public matter. or a data protection matter where our real life info can be at risk of being hacked
to reduce chances of double voting. each member should just given membership only after they have provided a non newbie forum username and a google identity.

with the hassle of making forum names, getting them established with X amount of posts(minimum 100). paying for membership. i dont think double voting would be a big thing to happen.

if it was free membership with no validation of identity (google + forum identity) then double voting would be easy to achieve.

but the whole storage of real life info, seems risky

maybe wallet should actually be renamed addressbook or "safety deposit key". as thats a more accurate real world represesentation of the wallet.dat file

great read, which highlights a few old things on different topics.
im actually laughing at how people think bitcoin isnt centralised.

when one entity is the powerhouse controlling the value of a commodity then it becomes centralised. for instance.. most people base BTC value on mtgox prices.

centralisation and tyranny are different things.. centralisation is in fiat terms.. the national reserve and banks. tyranny is the government and its financial laws and taxes.

in btc terms centralisation is trade exchange sites setting the value. tyranny is ... well hopefully no one..

if you truly want to be decentralised. then forget the US dollar conversion prices of MTGOX when purchasing. and when someone sells an item u pay what you think is a fair amount based purely on how much TIME you spent earning that BTC.

eg if you work all week earning fiat you already have an understanding that a percentage of your weekly income equals your food bill.. so if working all day ends up as enough currency to go to a bar get as drunk as you can and buy a fastfood meal at the end of the evening then thats what you expect to get for the amount of bitcoin you can mine in a day.

go back to the medieval days, when a butcher would carve up a healthy size beef steak which took him 30 minutes to prepare in exchange for 30 minutes time with a prostitute.. as an example.

the use of gold and then later FIAT was a centralised method to balance value, to make it a fair comparison so trades became equal for both parties.

tyranny is the other subject. i like how bitcoins are not solely owned by EG mtgox, etc ( and although i use them as a fair value comparison when trading) i know they cannot control my use of it, unlike governments do with FIAT.

after reading the article im just wondering about legality of bitcoins (specifically bitpay, MTGOX BTC-E and other exchanges) in regards to "unlicensed money transmitting business" laws.

cheers for the tips guys


my diagram is where the website top blue box never talks to the 'local computer' /home computer containing the wallet.
so it never has out going communications.. it just puts everything into data bases on website and the home computer reads it remotely.



my diagram offer the ability to withdraw.
simply by having a database on website side that stores withdrawal requests.
EG "user: xyd command: withdrawal amount: 2btc"


i have even thought of limiting what stuff would go into the database eg no addresses in the withdrawal request database, just a username and an amount so hackers cant just put withdraw 1mill BTC to adress 1lsssflsdflsdgobledegoop

and the home/local / hotwallet pc just accesses that database remotely and processes the commands as soon as they enter the database. and uses the verified address stored on home computer. so hackers cannot change the location.

the website never has ip addresses of the home PC listed or required. because the website never talks TO the home pc (no out going comms) just has incoming comms.

imagine it like ur the website. u write down a command onto a piece of paper "wife wants $5,000" and face it to a window.. me a home pc has a sniper scope pointed at you and reads the paper from a distance.. u cant see me but i can see you. anyone else who hacks in and reads your paper wont know ur wifes real name or where she is located.

i was thinking that the home computer that adds new addresses to the 'new deposit addresses' checks the addresses each time to compare them to the addresses saved in the hotwallet and sends the sql command to delete alien addresses from the website database. thus hackers might have 1 minute chance of adding a fresh address in before the database resets with just valid fresh addresses provided only by the hot wallet

here some more tin foil hat stuff to add into the mix.

sonny claims on the 15th of september 2010 he signed a guilty plea to 1 count of mail fruad then went home to his moms house in kansas..



strange because he didnt ask permission to live away from the state of california until 3rd of may 2011.....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/106602343/Probation-Transfer-of-Jurisdiction

secondly if you read all the other documents linked part of his orders are not to do certain types of business and not to contact anyone linked to the fraud.

quite a few nice transcripts to read if interested

personal message to sonny.. i hope your going to be a good little boy until september 2013

very good design. nice you left out the example QR codes but still has the example address and priv key.

on a separate subject i have a vb.net program with a webcam reference in it and a evaluation qr code reader dll reference in it. anyone know of a great .net dll reference thats not a evaluation for me to perfect my qr code reader?

im asking here because this thread is full of experienced geniuses who may already know what im on about.

i want it to test out these sexy bank notes... oops vouchers im printing out lol

yea thats the end result from looking at the examples and running them.

but vb.net doesnt like it. so im still searching for a more compatible source.

cheers though, ill keep that bookmarked as a back up and just API call the results into my vb program in worst case