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3541  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Intersango - No bitcoin withdrawals? on: October 21, 2012, 12:32:36 AM
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks!

This is the last comment:

I barely have time to deal with Intersango issues as it is.

So perhaps open a ticket if you haven't done so already:
 - https://support.intersango.com/
3542  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why hasn't this happened yet? on: October 21, 2012, 12:08:43 AM
And finally, how do you know that some billionare hasn't been buying gobs of bitcoin?

Because billioinaires hate Bitcoin!

Billionaires have billions because bankers can cheat. Bitcoins end cheating. QED. Cheating billionaires hate people having bitcoins.


It took me just fifteen minutes of listening to Bill Gates on Charlie Rose to confirm that billionaires don't and won't like BItcoin.

Mr. Gates throws around a lot of "we did this" type of statements, and what he really means is "we used our power to get governments to do this".  I'm not saying the accomplishments were bad, but anything that lessen's a billionaire's influence will not be something the billionaires will support.
3543  Other / Off-topic / Re: Pool for guessing the hour of the block reward halving? on: October 20, 2012, 11:40:39 PM
The block reward drops to 25 BTC at the 210001 block.

Just to clarify, the source reads:

Code:
 nSubsidy >>= (nHeight / 210000);
- https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1011

The genesis block does start at block height 0, so while the block reward halving will occur first with the 210,001st block, the block height for that block will be block height 210,000.
3544  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who here maintains the bitcoin.org site? on: October 20, 2012, 09:34:17 PM
The number it gives at "Minimal fees" on the What is Bitcoin? page isn't up to date.

You are describing the page titled "What is Bitcoin" from WeUseCoins.com
 - http://www.WeUseCoins.com

That is Stefan Thomas' site:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53924.0

Specifically, it currently reads:
Quote
Fair
Minimal fees
Using the Bitcoin network is free, except for a voluntary fee you can use to speed up transaction processing.

Technically, that is accurate.  The Bitcoin protocol doesn't require fees.  Most transactions nowadays include a fee but nearly every block includes some transactions where no fee is paid.

I agree it is misleading because there are certain conditions which would cause a payment to not end up being processed in a timely manner.
3545  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: need 3 bitcoins, pay via paypal if youre willing on: October 20, 2012, 09:24:52 PM
spare me the scammer stuff about paypal, no scam here,

That's what they all say.    Heh, I'm not passing judgement, I'm just pointing how because the seller can't know whether or not that is true, you will likely have a hard time finding a trade.


Sometimes that works on #bitcoin-otc if you have a trust history:

 - http://www.Bitcoin-otc.com
 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc-foyer


Cash seems to work pretty well.  If you have  PayPal debit card, you can visit an ATM and withdraw cash, then use that cash to buy bitcoins.

 - http://www.LocalBitcoins.com


So, a cash deposit method is likely going to be your next best option:

Options:
 - http://www.BitInstant.com (Deposit at major banks, 7-11, Walmart, CVS, Moneygram, etc.,)
 - http://www.BitMe.com (Deposit cash at Chase)
 - http://www.BitFloor.com (Deposit cash at Chase or Wells Fargo [temporarily unavailable])
 - http://www.MrBitcoins.com (Deposit at a bank in U.S., India, Australia)
 - http://www.CAVirtEx.com (Deposit cash at several banks)
 - http://www.Spendbitcoins.com (Deposit cash at a bank in Australia)
 - http://BitcoinNordic.com (Purchase CashU or UKash in dozens of countries)
 - http://www.BTC-E.com (Deposit cash (USD) at bank locations in Russia)
 - http://www.BitNZ.om (Deposit cash (NZD) at back locations in New Zealand)
 - http://www.BitInstant.com (Deposit cash in Brazil using Boleto or Banco Recomendito, or in Russia, using Qiwi or Cyberplat.)
 - http://www.VirWoX.com (Purchase UKash in dozens of countries with cash, then buy SLL and trade them for BTCs)
 - http://www.MercaBit.eu (Purchase UKash, Paysafecard, and others with EUR cash)

Also, Bitcoins Direct will accept cash, but they have a $500 minimum order size:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87094.0 (Deposit cash at Bank of America, Wells Fargo or PNC, minimum $500)

Credit card and in the U.S.?  You might be able to buy coins through:
 - https://www.quickbitcoins.net

Another method, from anywhere, is to use credit card to buy SLL (Second Life Lindens) through VirWoX, and then trade those for BTCs:
 - http://www.VirWoX.com

There are quite a few methods:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Buying_bitcoins
3546  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: bitmit.net is auctioning itself on: October 20, 2012, 09:12:47 PM
They are currently located in Hong Kong, which belongs to China as a Special Administrative Region, but has its own laws. The problem seems to lie with the escrow service.

Related:

What would you like to see replace Bitmit?
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119457.0

Bitmit is Closing??
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119334.0

Bidding Service BitMit Put Up For Auction
 - http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/33947619419

further indicator: bitmit final price
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119578.0


Primary BitMit announcements and support/feedback thread:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41592.0

Bitmit on Bitcoin wiki:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitmit
3547  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. on: October 20, 2012, 08:19:59 PM
Statement by Päivi Heikkinen, department head of (Financial Markets Infrastructure) at Bank of Finland
September, 2012
Location: Finland

Abstract: A reporter asks if Bitcoin is illegal.  Ms. Heikkinen responds [Translated from Finnish] "Not at all, People can invest in and use any money they prefer."

Heikkinen: Not at all, People can invest in and use any money they prefer.
Heikkinen: Finland is a free country, after all.

 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vYH1JH73pw#t=206s  <-- Enabled closed captioning [CC] at the bottom of the video.

3548  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. on: October 20, 2012, 08:04:35 PM
BaFin deems Bitcoin as "unit of account", financial service providers thus regulated by the Banking Act (KWG)
October, 2012
Location: Germany

Abstract: It appears that any business operating out of Germany (or, maybe even more broadly, a business with German customers) that holds customer's bitcoins is regulated as a bank (presumably, that means must obtain a banking license).   [Based on the translation to English from German, which may have changed the the meaning from the original, so this may be not completely accurate.]

The following appears to be the response to an inquiry sent to BaFin regarding bitcoins:

There is something stated in this Google translate article.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119270.0

If you have questions about specific sections, I can translate them manually.

Basically the BAFIN (German bank regulation) has stated, that service providers, that hold customer funds fall under the definition of a financial services business and therefore require a license to do so.

They also stated that Bitcoin (they stated Crypto Currecys) is indeed a monetary value and therefore falls under the definition of a electronic instrument of payment. That also implies, that BTC service providers fall under the definition of a financial services business.


An article in which this was discussed:

Quote
However, the BaFin Bitcoins sees as a "unit of account", which is regulated by the Banking Act (KWG). After that, anyone who wishes to provide certain professional services in connection with Bitcoins, first obtain a license from BaFin. Ultimately, the Bitcoin system is a multilateral trading system that requires such a permit. So it looks anyway BaFin. The more difficult it would be to identify in a decentralized system like Bitcoin, the responsible persons must apply for the relevant banking licenses.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fix%2Fartikel%2FWaehrungsrisiken-1723975.html&act=url
3549  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How to determine dormant coins? (Inspired by Shamir's paper) on: October 20, 2012, 07:00:58 PM
What would be the best way to measure how many coins are in long-term savings, as opposed to being actively circulated?

Presumably if large balances that are held at EWallet providers are then withdrawn (e.g., sold at the exchange and withdrawn by the buyer), they would then need to come from the offline / cold wallet storage.  That activity would likely appear in the BitcoinDays destroyed metric as any funds in the offline / cold wallet storage would likely be older.  If the EWallet provider where this is happening has some manual method where coin selection follows last-in-first-out or first-in-first-out, and whatever convention is used is known, then that might help increase the accuracy of BitcoinDays destroyed, but I don't believe that info is shared.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Days_Destroyed
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6172.msg90789#msg90789


What would be the best way to measure how many coins are in long-term savings, as opposed to being actively circulated?
Which of your (1), (2), (3) in this case covers coins which are deposited in a bank like service but are actively changing ownership inside it with no blockchain activity?

I'm not aware of any method which will give reliable results and, worse, I'm not aware of any method which will give results where we can give a reliable distribution of the errors.

Exactly.  Worse than having no information at all is having bad information and it giving a false sense of security when used.  With EWallets, using the blockchain for gleaning information about bitcoin distribution won't even be in the same ballbpark.
3550  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin OTC Help on: October 20, 2012, 11:31:33 AM
I am so confused on how to get signed up on Bitcoin OTC can anyone help me?

Firstly you'll need to get set up with GPG.   
Start here:

 - http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_authentication#Third-party_guides
3551  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: How will ASIC miners match up against coinlab if they sign some top MMOGs? on: October 20, 2012, 11:29:07 AM
how many total GPU mining hours would coinlab have to control to compete with the TOTAL amount of ASIC power that will be live within the next six months?

Right now the 22.4 Thash/s of capacity is over 30,000 AMD 5970s (or 6990s, or 7970s, which are all roughly about the same). 

Or take a mix of 5970s, 6970s, 5830s, etc., and the current capacity is roughly around 50,000 GPUs (or more).

Most gamers bought NVidias, and if all hashing capacity came from decent NVidia cards, you would need well over 100,000 of them.

That's existing capacity, not even considering the addition of the hashing capacity from GPUs, which will likely double to quadruble total capacity in a matter of weeks, just from the pre-paid ASIC purchases.



Thank for the response. My question relates specifically to coinlab.com... their model is not GPU mining itself, as far as I understand, it is essentially to pay MMOGs for the spare GPU time of their (non-paying) customers.

CoinLab has two initiatives.  The original was a client that mined bitcoins using the gamer's GPU hardware.  The proceeds go towards game subscription and in-game purchases   
The second, initiative (and now, main initiative, it appears) is to have GPU owners run a client that will do computing tasks on-demand, including scientific or other types of computations, or mining if that yields better revenue.  The presumption is that the revenue from mining using any GPUs will not be sufficient to pay for the cost of electricity, thus most will be retiring their GPUs from Bitcoin mining duty.
3552  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: The Law Of Bank Checks on: October 20, 2012, 11:01:00 AM
The most striking part of it is the sheer number of citations to actual litigation since the 1760's to get things in order.

463 pages.  And that is copyright 1915, nearly a hundred years ago.
3553  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin Panel at Libertopia 2012 on: October 20, 2012, 09:42:07 AM
http://libertopia.org/schedule/

Quote
Alternative Currencies panel discussion with moderator Drew Phillips, Ross Edwards, Tim Fray, Johann Gevers, Trace Mayer, Justin O’Connell, and Paul Rosenberg – Main Stage


Left to right are:

Justin O’Connell (Silver Vigilante)
Trace Mayer (Run To Gold)
Drew Phillips
Ross Edwards (Don’t Tread On Meme)
Paul Rosenburg  (Cryptohippie)


Johann Gevers (Monetas) wasn't on the panel but Chris Odom (@FellowTraveler) (Monetas /  Open Transactions) was there just not on stage.
3554  Economy / Speculation / Re: Where all the bitcoins are bitcoins are hiding. on: October 20, 2012, 09:08:58 AM
Feel like this article has 10+ threads.

Yup.  Additional discussion here, in the Press forum:

2012-10-17 78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118946.0


And here:

78 percent of Bitcoin currency stashed under digital mattress, study finds
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119421.0

How to determine dormant coins? (Inspired by Shamir's paper)
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119465.0

Adi Shamir's paper on bitcoin
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118797.0
3555  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Problem with satoshi dice on: October 20, 2012, 08:51:30 AM
The original transaction was sent in on 10/19/2012 21:29, Pacific time.

Your bet transaction:
 - http://blockchain.info/tx-index/30177299/6288954635976333c4aeb5ca6adf4f55ff538a47b28ef372609e33b1e1170003  <-- Your client paid from eight different addresses.

SatoshiDICE transaction info:
 - http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=6288954635976333c4aeb5ca6adf4f55ff538a47b28ef372609e33b1e1170003 

Payout transaction:
 - http://blockchain.info/tx-index/30177676/a1904b56d836db2f494d3a882da884bd9b47691dbd31a50fa65fff0656172c3f  <--- Paid out to one of those eight addresses from above.

Everything is showing in the blockchain.  If your client has downloaded at least block 204,087 then these transactions should show.
3556  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Date for 25 BTC per Block on: October 20, 2012, 06:24:25 AM
11/30/2012

Yup, that target date ... still Nov 30th (Friday), but early in the day (UTC), so even a small increase will cause it to land early, like on the 29th (Thursday)

 - http://bitcoinclock.com/

So if there are any halving day events ... for party planning it is looking like it perhaps might occur Wednesday in the U.S., Thursday in Europe / Asia.

There still are some wildcards though ... GPU miners could start liquidating in larger numbers soon, trying to get a jump on others who will mine until the is no question that GPU mining's days are oover.  This loss of hashing capacity could push the date later, maybe to December again.   Or a first run for some ASICs could pull us ahead by several days, like to the 25th or earlier.
3557  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Made a mistake ordering from Bitinstant, afraid I may have lost 8BTC on: October 20, 2012, 05:40:14 AM
I just want to secure my BTC in a wallet I have access to by getting directly in touch with bitinstant.

What wallet do you use?  A local client like the bitcoin.org client or an EWallet?
3558  Economy / Gambling / Re: bitZino - Provably Fair Bitcoin Casino - Blackjack, Craps, Roulette, Video Poker on: October 20, 2012, 04:48:27 AM
I see bitZino ads in the signature line by another forum member, in the format of
  bitzino.com/c/xxxxxx

Does bitZino have an affiliate program now?
3559  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Introduction to Bitcoin on: October 20, 2012, 03:29:00 AM
I am in the UK and would like to purchase some, where would be a good place to do that using a bank transfer?


BlockChain.info now accepts funds from Barclays Pingit:
 - https://blockchain.info/wallet/deposit-pingit


BitInstant is still in trial mode for their Online Bank Transfer method for buying coins using a bank transfer.  You can try there:
 - http://www.BitInstant.com


Other methods include:

You can send cash (GBP) in the mail to Bitcoin Nordic (in Denmark):
 - http://www.BitcoinNordic.com


And, or course, there may be a chance for a local trade:
 - http://www.LocalBitcoins.com


Another method to buy bitcoins uses credit card through VirWoX.  How that works is you buy Second Life Lindens (SLL) with credit card, then convert those to BTCs and then you can withdraw BTCs.  With being a new user and using credit card there is about a day delay before you can withdraw, as they complete fraud checks.  They also accept MoneyBookers/Skrill.
 - http://www.VirWoX.com

You can purchase bitcoins with UKash from MercaBit.eu, BitcoinNordic.com and VirWoX.

And there may be other methods that work for you as well:
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Buying_bitcoins
3560  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Positive Money UK on: October 20, 2012, 12:38:27 AM
Yeah there basic principles suit bitcoin ideology.

Is it?  From what I could tell, basically they are simply saying why let a private bank run the printing press and then pay interest on that money when the State could just print money itself, free of debt?   Which, if that is all the B of E is doing (printing on behalf of the State), then that makes sense.  

The missing component is ... what limits the amount of money issued?  If the issuance (and destruction) of money is the amount necessary to ensure stable prices, then that might work.  If it instead is to fund State spending, then this puts a nation on the fast track to becoming Zimbabwe.

Their talking points mention that the power to print isn't in the hands of the "vote-seeking politicians" but I didn't see how that is ensured.
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