a future world where the bitcoin they bought not only continues to rise in value relative to fiat currency, but they can also exchange it DIRECTLY for everything in life (goods, services, rent, utilities, gas, food, etc.) THAT is what the Average Joe wants bitcoin for, they don't really want to just exchange it back for more fiat currency. That defeats the whole purpose in their eyes.
Oh please. lol Sure, the r/bitcoin users who scream "to the moon" during pumps but argue that price doesn't matter during dumps actually care about paying for something online with their coins. It's not like the most popular philosophy here and on reddit is that you should HODL your coins and don't spend them (AKA dump them, since merchants don't want no bitcoinz) and that bitcoin is a great gold 2.0 store of value  You're the worst kind of troll, because if people actually bought into your stupid "bitcoin is worthless" argument then they would sell everything, never buy again, it would collapse to zero, and you would be out of the bitcoin day trading business for good. Be careful what you wish for, troll. |
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No, the majority of people responsible for those price increases (and consequent dumps) don't seem to care about using bitcoin or how many bitcoin they have, they care about how many dollars they are gonna get when they dump higher (or how many dollars they get when they close their shorts).
I don't usually respond to troll accounts, but I will this one time. The rises might be from traders who don't really care about bitcoin, but the majority of Average Joe retail buyers would LOVE and envision a future world where the bitcoin they bought not only continues to rise in value relative to fiat currency, but they can also exchange it DIRECTLY for everything in life (goods, services, rent, utilities, gas, food, car, travel, etc.) THAT is what the Average Joe wants bitcoin for, they don't really want to just exchange it back for more fiat currency. That defeats the whole purpose in their eyes. |
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I know the comparison is highly unpopular here, but I still believe that Bitcoin has a lot in common with a ponzi scheme. There is tremendous peer pressure to stay into the 'game', if only to fill the pockets of people that were here before. I almost on a daily basis see people advising new members, that mostly have no clue about Bitcoin or where the price is headed, to buy as much as they can and 'hold'. It really is sickening to see sometimes.
I can understand your feelings on this. But you must realize that if no one, I mean NO one held bitcoin at all, the price would drop to zero or near zero. That includes the traders on the exchanges. So holding HAS to be part of the equation, just like in PMs, stocks, commodities, etc. This idea that no one should ever hold bitcoin is ridiculous, as then bitcoin would then have no market value at all. More people holding and deciding what they WON'T sell it for fiat (or never back to fiat) is what gives bitcoin it's market price in the first place. |
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If you re-visit threads from the first half of 2014, you'll see the old bullish regulars declaring with full conviction that the bottom *must* be in now. Plenty of posts with the usual log-linear extrapolations to 1000s of $ per coin were posted again.
....
My point is, in a deep bear market like this, what do you expect the long-term Bitcoin believers to post? Predictions about impending reversals? Done that, and failed. Pat each other on the back for not being affected yet because their entry price was in the single digits? That happens occasionally, and it provokes a justified backlash.
Again, I don't think most of those so-called "bulls" were genuine at all, only a small percentage were real bull long investors that truly care about bitcoin's future. Most of those older bull accounts just belong to disingenuous day traders flipping the script during a rally to "To da moon!", how bitcoin will change the world, bogus charts, rockets/trains, sky high predictions, and other such nonsense because it serves their purpose at the moment. And declarations of "The bottom MUST be in!" is just bull trap fodder spread by day traders trying to unload more coins. Once the rally is over, they eventually log out of those bull accounts, and back into their bear troll accounts and go to town. Starting the bullshit cycle all over again. If you are a newbie that comes here in the middle of a rally, then the joke is on you. You already missed the train for a long while. The good news for true longs is, now during the "Despondancy Stage" is probably a very good time to buy. |
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The only difference between bull trolls and bear trolls: among the latter there's a much larger share of newly registered accounts.
Bear trolls have throwaway bull troll accounts also, which they are happy to log into during a rally and post stupid "To da moon!" posts and pics of rockets and trains. Because they are day traders, and all they care about is people buying during a rally (so they can eventually take profit). but could also be because the bear trolls don't stick around once the market recovers.
The true bull long investors on this board are probably still reading occasionally, but don't bother to even post right now and haven't for nearly a year. Their posts and threads would just get lost in all this troll dribble. This whole sub forum is a complete farce. With the exception of a few posters, I don't believe that most of the people posting here are honest. |
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mmitech is just butthurt he didn't get back into LTC ~$1.20 and missed the pump.
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Institutional as well as private investment will not pump the price as they are not buying BTC, they are investing in the infrastructure. Except for guys such as Draper, few are going the way of purchasing. We need fiat to pump the price; aka we need new individuals to buy coins and have existing individuals stop selling them.
Yeah, like better infrastructure is the only thing holding Average Joe back from finally buying some bitcoin. The Average Joes of the world need a MUCH better incentive than that. Like discounts at Walmart, Auto Zone, Burger King, etc. Or be able to purchase lotto tickets and cigarettes with bitcoin. |
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Initially i was just arguing about an order in which markets seem to decline, nothing else-it was you who brought up, in my opinion, erroneous notion that there is much of intrinsic value in markets. My point is that this value exist (it is not zero), but it is much, much smaller that you can gather by looking at the current asset prices. How much smaller-it seems that we are about to find out, and by this I mean the next 5-10 years, not tomorrow.
Case in point: Nikkei at 39000 in 1989, then Nikkei at 7600 in 2009 (lost 80% in 20 years).
You mean like the dollar?  |
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Fuck sake... should I buy a little (you know for savings not trading) looks like its a steady rise?
Nope, do like Gavin says and stay away from bitcoin for the next 5 years. Come back when its around $10K/btc, then buy.  |
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Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too.
Personally, I think this is the most likely scenario as well. ATM bitcoin is like a very risky commodity. Things would have to get really really ugly (like breaking some major rules thereby breaking trust in traditional systems) for bitcoin to become a 'safe haven' in case of a financial crash. Five or ten years from now, that might be a different story. It's difficult to treat Bitcoin like anything specifically because it's a stock, commodity, asset, currency, fuel, all in one. It can thrive in any environment. If Wall Streets starts buying, expect BTC to be in the $10k's Average Joes don't pump BTC to $10K. First the whale pumpers do, THEN Average Joe starts buying at the higher price. |
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this is huobi doing the 'chinese panic' dumping bitcoins so they don't end up being the bagholders .
It's early morning there now. We should see some increased activity within the hour Really? 'Cause their bots are working 24 hour shifts, no caffeine needed. |
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Bitcoin, on the other hand, has no 'intrinsic' value if it crashes. You can't extract a bitcoin out of your harddrive and play with it, or use it as a jacket when it's cold outside. It's sole value stems from its purchasing power, nothing more. It's value is its life support.
But so are company stocks. When a company goes bankrupt, you can't 'turn in' your stock certs and get something in return. They are literally worthless. You can wipe your butt with them, or hang them on your wall so you can periodically cry while looking at them. (actually you can't even get physical stock certs anymore, but that is a different story...) Same with fiat paper and fiat coins. They are worthless unless they are 'valued' by people, or a government simply says they have value. Otherwise they are literally worthless. |
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Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.
The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin. It's still being treated as a stock/commodity. That's fine, don't mind if it's treated as a stock/commodity, as long as you can trade it on Wall Street, then we will see some real $ in BTC. yep, keep the big picture and long term in mind. Yeah, but you guys keep mentioning that if the worldwide stock markets tank, people will dump stocks and flock to bitcoin as a hedge (like they do gold). But if they treat bitcoin like a stock, then it will get dumped too. |
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Wish BTC would stop plummeting. It's being dominated by day traders.
The DOW drops on bad news, the Asian market reacts, and guess what dumps on Chinese exchanges almost simultaneously? Yep, bitcoin. It's still being treated as a stock/commodity. |
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Not necessarily...a much greater proportion of people can afford to buy in the lower the price gets. The wealthy can buy that many more. Once the price makes enough of a sharp rise people panic buy and then it just takes off.
Not to mention the block halving in 2016 will cut the number of new bitcoins produced per day in half...
It's just as easy and affordable to buy btc at $5000/btc as it is at $5/btc, you just get more or less btc depending.. It's basic human psychology, or psych 101...people are going to buy more of something when it is cheaper. Not true. If Gold were $0.000001/ounce, no one would want it or care. |
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Like anyone didn't realize this ENTIRE silly Coinbase 'to the moon' pump was totally fake. Bulls knew it, bears knew it, and even the sheep knew it. |
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Great thing about going down to $50 to $100 is that all the emotionally weak investors would have panic sold, and then the market only has 1 way to go...
No more emotionally weak investors plus an abundance of extremely cheap coins available...need I say more?
Flawed logic. You think a strong hand only needs to buy once, then hold forever? You see, bitcoins have to be CONTINUOUSLY bought on a DAILY BASIS by SOMEONE out there to keep the price up, otherwise price will just continue to fall or until the monetary base inflation rate becomes negligible (around 100 years from now). |
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Because whether you like it or not, the Silk Road and the other black market were the only real use case that bitcoin ever had AS A CURRENCY.
The other proposed use cases are just excuses to pump and smokescreen because bitcoin doesn't really offer real advantages over fiat money.
I don't agree. In the near future: 1. Consumers will be offered more merchant incentives (e.g., product discounts, bulk rates, etc.) to use bitcoin over fiat/credit cards 2. Daily transactions will be easier and faster with bitcoin on mobile devices (through services like CB/BitPay that will offer near zero latency) 3. Merchants will benefit more as services like Coinbase/BitPay shield them from volatility, chargebacks, and fees. 4. Transaction fees will eventually fall to near zero over time. And all this will get better and better with time. In ten years, it will be working at a fairly decent level. In 20+, near optimum. In 30, no one will even remember the early days.... at all. |
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I'm not sure the world needs a bitcoin or a cryptocurrency, and if it does, it doesn't need an overpriced and overhyped one.
Some of you points are valid, but this statement is where you completely went off the reservation. If you can't see that a cryptocurrency NEEDS to become more valuable and more popular over time against fiat currency to be useful and a better form of money, then you missed the entire point of its existence. And price does not matter when it is divisible to 8 decimal places, so it can never be "overpriced". Gold would be absolutely worthless to the general world populous at $0.0001/ounce. Get it? |
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And there we go to 270$ People already dumping  But what made them start dumping and killing BTC again??? What's in the news that's taking down BTC? Coinbase posted site with countdown which ended 8 minutes ago. It said to the moon and that's it. Now they annouced exchange and people sell "Buy on the rumor, sell on the [opening] news." Classic trading strategy. |
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