Jesus H, why hasn't anyone kicked this loser Brock Pierce off of the Bitcoin Foundation yet? Hasn't he caused enough controversy yet? Also, how do you have a Realcoin backed to every dollar when there are $65 billion of them (dollars, that is) printed fresh every month? Are they going to 'print' 65 billion Realcoins every month too? Stupidest. Crypto. Idea. Evar. |
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FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD. FUD.
This is the response I'm gonna go with from now on. No more suffering fools lightly crap.
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The point is that governments will stamp out crypto, like they got rid of BSCs, if they perceive that crypto is actually going to do what it was intended to do.
Government can never completely eliminate currencies based on decentralized consensus blockchains. They can only make it more difficult to trade this currency for their own currency, and vice versa. If government pushes Bitcoin into a black market currency, it will still exist. In fact, if the war on drugs is anything to judge by, a war on Bitcoin will only make it worth more.No. It makes me cringe every time someone says this. It's the truth. Please read here: http://economics.about.com/od/demand/ss/black_market.htmThe supply of bitcoins are not reduced if they are made illegal. There will still be 21 million of them. No. The supply of Bitcoins being sold for USD will be greatly reduced. That would be the effect of any legislation criminalizing Bitcoin in the United States. Converting Bitcoin into USD will suddenly make that seller a criminal. This will make it much more difficult to buy Bitcoin, thus resulting in an increased BTC/USD price. Most exchanges for BTC/USD will be shut down. Mining would become easier. You're missing the main point anyway - the utility of illegal drugs are not affected by their legal status. The utility of BTC is greatly reduced if it is made illegal. And what's the "intrinsic" value of BTC in the first place? Its utility. No. Bitcoin's utility as a store of value would not be affected. Only its use as a currency would be affected. The use as a store of value is what most directly translates into its exchange price today. What are you going to do with your now illegal BTC?
Again, BTC wouldn't be illegal. Converting to USD would be illegal. You could sell for other currencies in countries not hostile to Bitcoin. If somehow all the countries of the world were to criminalize exchanges between Bitcoin and their currencies (very big stretch here), there would always be a market between Bitcoin and Gold, or anything else with actual value.THIS +1M. Not to mention, LocalBitcoins type of face-to-face money or barter/value exchange will be around in some form or another in the grey/black market forever. /debate  |
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I'm just waiting for someone to post a log graph dating back to mid 2010 to show we're still in a bull market today...
Yeah, and look just how ignorant this guy's post turned out to be. According to current 2014 log graphs we're still in a bull market today. This is the reason I completely ignore bears and trolls on this sub, and will continue to do so for years into the future. Bitcoin crashed from 7 to 2 USD between September '11 and November '11. So, technically he did not make a bad call. There's nothing wrong with being temporarily bearish on bitcoin. Dalmar, that wasn't just a slight bearish remark about a temporary setback. Cluster2k's comment was a condescending troll remark that was basically saying "You all are absolute fools if you think that bitcoin is still in a long term exponential bull trend from it's beginning." It was so wrong then, and is so wrong today, that it's almost criminal. It's the attitude that just about every bear on this board has today. |
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China is not a total success story either. There are stories of success, but there is a huge amount of hidden malinvestment that has yet to fall out. There are plenty of insolvent companies and investment schemes being held up by the government.
1 Billion people going out of extreme poverty in a few decades, average hourly salary going up 5-15% every year, hundreds of millions of people living as well as in Europe or USA (same average salary after tax) and the number is growing by 5-12% a year when it wasn't a few millions that were living as well as in Europe or US a few decades ago Does that feel like an economical failure?? No, it is a huge success, the best success story of the last 30years in terms of magnitude What you're describing is what happened in the U.S. from about 1946 - 2000. The most vigorous, sustained periods of growth, took place from early 1961 to mid-1969, with an expansion of 53% (5.1% a year), from mid-1991 to late in 2000, at 43% (3.8% a year), and from late 1982 to mid-1990, at 37% (4% a year). After the financial crisis of 2008, it's been all downhill for the U.S. But this doesn't change what PirateHatForTea said about the Chinese economy. The shadow banking system there is hiding billions in bad investments and ponzi schemes. It's like a house of cards, just waiting for a few bad apples to fall. Once the whole thing starts to snowball, the Chinese government won't be able to bail them all out. |
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I'm just waiting for someone to post a log graph dating back to mid 2010 to show we're still in a bull market today...
Yeah, and look just how ignorant this guy's post turned out to be. According to current 2014 log graphs we're still in a bull market today. This is the reason I completely ignore bears and trolls on this sub, and will continue to do so for years into the future. |
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Nope, don't even try debating with Oda directly on bitcoin's long term potential. Not worth the breath. I'll stop short of calling Oda an outright troll, but shortsighted permabear is adaquate enough of a label.
You string words together, but there is no thought at all behind them, huh? You have very clearly no idea of what my ideas are about the long term prospect of Bitcoin. But in a way I'm happy you posted - you're an excellent example of what I described in my post right above: you're one of those in here for whom any perceived opposition to the only possible outcome of the million dollar coin must be met with the utmost contempt ("permabear", "troll", "shortsighted"). Never let facts or reasoning get in the way of a good dream. Could you please link me your long term ideas? Anytime I'm interested in non-trolling alternative views... I avoid technical predictions that go further into the future than a month or two, and definitely can't provide a price target for 2015 based on them. Otherwise you get silly threads like the loglinear extrapolation threads that present a (debatable, but itself worthy of consideration) model, and then are full of people tripping over each other misinterpreting and misapplying those models: "We are now 0.4 log delta below the trendline, which means: we can only go up!". I wrote what you could call a post on fundamentals here, dismissing the idea that Bitcoin "only has speculative value", arriving at an absolute lower bound of around $2000 in case the rather likely scenario I describe becomes true (that Bitcoin commercial transfer volume will be at least as high as that of Paypal last year.) Yes Oda, you're right, please enlighten all of us of where you think the Bitcoin world will be at the 5 and 10 year mark from today. Or is that too hard for you?? Because I haven't heard you enlighten us with your infinite wisdom on that topic yet? All I hear you do is whine about the bulls. I'll tell ya what, I'll make it even easier for you. Tell us where you think that Bitcoin will be in 2016? I assume still at your supposed $2000 "fair value" level? Or do you and Blitz just think we're all cultists? (And btw Blitz, if you think we're all just a bunch cultists, then WTF are you doing here as a Moderator on a Bitcoin forum? Hypocrit much?) |
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God, I hate that site. Right at the center of the snake oil infrastructure of Bitcoin. This entire circlejerk about the 200 Trillion Coin is so intellectually lazy and deceiving, I personally believe it to be the least ethical side of Bitcoin as a social phenomenon. Yes. Worse than Mtgox, SR and Leah McGrath's doxing of an old dude who had nothing to do with Bitcoin. Oda, can you explain this comment in more detail? Nope, don't even try debating with Oda directly on bitcoin's long term potential. Not worth the breath. I'll stop short of calling Oda an outright troll, but shortsighted permabear is adaquate enough of a label. People who only can calculate to or conceive of the bitcoin market's next hour, or tomorrow at best, will never be able to conceive of what the world of Bitcoin would look like 5 years from now, 10, or even 20. And day traders could care less anyway, all they care about is how to make their next $100 on a swing. I have gone back and extensively read forum threads from 2-3 years ago, with bears screaming that bitcoin wouldn't make it to $200/btc even in 10 years, and anyone that disagreed with them was an absolute fool. An utterly pathetic lack of vision from the bear camp, and it will always be that way. Also, just try calling them out on it years later... they have vanished from the scene by then. Wonder why? |
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There's almost 29M usd swaps now on bitfinex, and ...
Gee, could it be that someone knows something that you don't know? |
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5000-6000 by July 2015. 10K by December 2015.
And no I'm not high, this is VERY achievable. If I've underestimated, even better.
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I can't see anything so far. Can someone please give some good reasons (explanation or charts, no trolls pls) that can enlighten me? I have the feeling we'll see months passing and nothing notable will happen, only 100 USD ups or downs.
Good god, can someone please just ban this troll already? He is annoying as fk. I have him on ignore, but it's just not enough. His blatant stupidity has somehow seeped through the Ignore functionality on this sub. |
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Just tell your friend he's right to be alarmed, and to not buy any bitcoin. But you buy bitcoin. A lot of it. And hold it for 2 years or more. Then revisit your supposedly smart friend in 2 years, and ask "Hey, remember that bitcoin that you didn't buy two years ago because you were too worried about the distribution? Well it's now 60X the price of what it was then back then. And btw, I did buy some then. But you're so smart for not buying any, as the distribution is still not good. Much better than it was then, but still not good."  Also, I can guarantee you that unlike our current fiat world, the top bitcoin holders in the world are probably some of the truest, most deserving, most libertarian folks you'll likely to ever meet. Well, until the greedy, corporate, banker, politician pig elite come along to buy up what bitcoin is available with their fiat millions. Hopefully those top BTC holders won't sell out to the greedy pig elite. |
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Fact is he's going to invest in the Bitcoin infrastructure and now he owns 30k BTC so his interests are alined with the rest of us holders. Seems like good news  Was there ever any doubt amongst those (apparently a dozen or so) of us that have brains? I literally can't wait until the bitcoin market (currently ruled by immature, panicky 20-somethings) is completely taken over by more mature, older HNW professionals that know what the hell they are doing. "We'll take it from here, boys." |
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Chinese save in Yuan and Gold as well which will increase in value compared to the USD, their salaries are going up tremendously every year, one billion of chinese came out of poverty and they are working hard, saving a lot, their state is planning for years ahead...
Did they really come out of poverty, or did their Chinese Gov't 'engineer' them out of poverty? 20 years ago, the Chinese citizens were at the lowest point. They were focusing hard on trying to overthrow their Communistic form of government, because they felt that it was holding them down while the rest of the world prospered. The Chinese citizens HATED their government and wanted a revolution. They wanted Democracy, and capitalism. The Chinese government was worried, and they needed something to distract their citizens away from hating the government control so much. So what did they decide to do? The made their economy better. A brilliant move on their part. By better, I mean that they engineered the Chinese economy to have the veneer of real change and improvement. The Chinese government used it's Billions of funds to invest in its own economy and infrastructure. It put restrictive capital controls in place to make sure money stayed in China, and suppressed the value of the Yuan to keep export of Chinese goods high. It started offering cheap, high quality education for it's own people. A Chinese shadow banking system arose, that started to offer cheap credit to entrepreneurs to be able to invest in just about any Chinese-related business endeavor. Incentives were offered for the people to invest in local real estate, which rose in value. Suddenly everyone's salaries magically went up, poverty went down, and the people thrived. The people were making money and it appeared that their lives were improving, so of course they slowly started to shift their viewpoint away from hating their government to a form of Nationalism. The next generation or two of children of the people who lived through the Cultural Revolution had forgotten all about the horrors that their government had put their parents and grandparents through, and actually started to have National pride instead. It's amazing what having an abundance of money and better living conditions will do to an entire nation's psychology. The young people there are quite oblivious to their country's dark history. But you have to understand, it's all a fabricated facade, fabricated by their government. And yes, the Chinese traditionally have been good savers, and always have been compared to the U.S. and the rest of the world. But just saving alone won't save your entire country. You have to continue to produce valuable stuff that the rest of the world wants, or your own country wants. If either or both of those things slow down or grind to a halt, then your country's economy is going to have BIG problems moving forward. |
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I think that there are a lot of fools who dream of riches but who aren't ready to do any hard work for it.
You mean like everyone on this sub forum? |
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In 10years, a middle class and even low middle class chinese will live like a King in holidays in the States
They already are. You should see the Chinese students at a local University in my neck of the woods. It's a fairly prestigious University, and costs a pretty penny to attend. The tuition has gone up astronomically in the last 15 years. Even as recently as 6 years ago there were very few non-Caucasians and minorities on campus. Now it's completely taking over by rich Chinese and Korean kids, driving around in their (paid for) Mercedes, Lexus, and BMWs. The campus is now unrecognizable, as Caucasians and all the other groups are now the minority there. You'd think it was a school just for Asians. The local high-end car dealerships say that they sell about 80% of their cars now to the Asian kids attending this University, and have even started to market directly to them. Just goes to show, you need to work harder. Actually these Asian kids didn't work for this money. It's their parent's money, they wire it to them to spend in the States. Mommy and daddy didn't do anything amazing either, they simply bought real estate in China 10-15 years ago (really the only investment the Chinese gov't will allow their citizens to invest in), sat on it, and made a killer return. It was easy money. All of it fake wealth of course, because their real estate market is now in a bubble. Also the Chinese gov't artificially devalues the Yuan so that they can keep exports high and keep in-sourcing work. But they can't keep this up forever, and when it all implodes then their citizens will be royally fked. So will their kids. |
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Ok, all of you guys replying to the OP's thread need to be ashamed that you can't even recognize a newly created troll account. I can see that astute perception has fallen to an all time low on this sub.  |
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Check out the Stamp 1W MACD. CCMF! I wish the Stamp 1W MACD looked like Bitfinex.  |
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I love how bitcoiners want to spend hours and hours analyzing this auction and the buyer, when there's 1000% chance that Tim Draper will do absolutely nothing but sit on these 30K coins for the next 6-12 months while he further invests to build out the third world exchange infrastructure.  I believe this is exactly what he'll do. Why in the heck would he dump at or below market rates when he bought way above market rates? He's a VC. They hold and invest. Yes exactly. I guess everyone else that still wants to debate the stupid "dumping" scenario is just trapped in that movie Idiocracy. |
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I love how bitcoiners want to spend hours and hours analyzing this auction and the buyer, when there's 1000% chance that Tim Draper will do absolutely nothing but sit on these 30K coins for the next 6-12 months while he further invests to build out the third world exchange infrastructure. |
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