I had some more time to think about it. It does have one flaw that I have thought of so far.

There is no way for an outside observer to verify that this method of ring sig partner selection had been used. So someone could run their own custom modified software that selected ring signature partners truely randomly their transactions would still be accepted by the network (though I don't know who would do that or why). Or if a fork chain was purposely malicious they could always delete this little bit of code roll that part of the software back to the way it is now. However if they did change that bit of code their motives would immediately become highly suspect, if not beyond reasonable doubt level incriminating, and this would severely damage if not ruin the reputation of their project (one hopes ).

Also I think the current ring sig partner selection weights newer transactions. So talking about random all the time like I was I don't think is technically completely accurate. But it helped to simplify the point I was trying to make and I think it was ok because a very similar weighting could be incorporated into the scheme I laid out with only minor modifications.

Haha maybe that's all true on some sub conscious level. Boy, you're a prickly little fella aren't ya?

I'm going to X-post this over here too from the main thread because I think hope it is important.

Holy crap you guys. Eureka! I figured it out! Not just a stop gap measure to address the fork ring sig reuse problem. The actual solution! I was just laying in bed trying to fall asleep and it hit me like a tire iron to the face.

It is possable to deterministically derive ring sig partners but in a way that would be functionally random to any outside observer. I'll give an example of one way of doing it. Take


Then make all of the prospective ring signature partners into an ordered numbered set and use the resulting modulus from the pseudo code above to select one. Continue wrapping around the clock face as many times as needed to arrive at the number of ring signature partners desired.

There would be 0 information leak from the outside, the ring signature partners would be functionally random to any outside observer BUT, and here is the beautiful thing, the same ring signature partners would end up being selected on both the main chain AND the fork chain!

Of course what I outlined above almost certainly isn't the best way to achieve this. It was just to outline the concept.


Merits! I deserve all of the merits. Bequeath unto me thine merits! (well, after peer review, and not just if my specific idea is right but if I'm barking up close enough to the right tree to inspire someone smarter than me)

It's easier to use the number pad. I can probably type it twice as quickly with the number pad. Also typing it on the screen is probably less secure. Easier for someone to see where you are placing your thumbs. Or does it scramble it on there too?

Well again bitcoin is a small part of my portfolio. But because every technical indicator is flashing red. No I'm not a big believer in technical analysis. But when ALL of them signal red at the same time. Well that's not great. Basically that up trend we were all enjoying since the beginning of February is completely obliterated. Signaling that this is was all a protracted bull-trap and the trend from before February is the real trend. Additionally you should understand that 9,000 dollars is a GREAT price for me. The 9,000 that is depressing to you is god damn amazing to me. It is beyond what was even my even most fanciful wildest dream. Look at my account profile. I've been here since 2010. This profit that I just took is enough to retire on. If I leave it in bitcoin maybe it goes really really low and I have no retirement, I have to go get a damned job.

Time will tell. I have a stop order in place of course. Worst case is I lose some not all.

All of it. But all of my bitcoin does not equal all of my crypto. Not even close.

Well guys I did the unthinkable that I told myself I would never do it. For the first time in my life I tried to get clever instead of just hodling. I just sold my bitcoin with the intention of buying back lower. Eeek. This is terrifying.

Shrink your images down bro. That monser is just rude. It takes up the whole dang screen. I mean maybe take the whole screen for a chart or something useful, not a meme.

Would a transaction from an exchange look like that though? 1 input and 1 output? A transaction with 1 input and 1 output is almost certainly going to be authored by a human hand not an algorithm at an exchange. My best guess is that it is someone moving funds into or out of cold storage. With the price crashing which of those two is more likely? Seems bearish to me.

Sure you will buddy. Look you just gotta realign your expectations a little bit.



Just ask Carlos Matos. There is no problem so big that it cant be solved by a positive attitude.


Soooooo did you guys see this? I was watching transactions live and the mother of all transactions scrolled by right before my eyes. In all my years of transaction watching I have never seen anything even in the same universe as this. It's was like going whale watching and seeing the occasional orca swim through I'm pretty impressed then cathulu casually strolls by. Thoughts? https://blockchain.info/tx/c875eb38c6bc141abd92a9014f985b72f5500f88e8722d29e1c8d274b738d744

It's 132 million dollars

The entropy in a closed system would tend towards a more and more disordered state. It would move naturally from low entropy to a high entropy state. Without external forces inputting energy to lower the entropy back down. That would be a good thing inside a closed crypto system. Order is collusion. Order is cartels. Order is centralization. Order is balkanization/concentration of the units of account. Within the context of the internals of the closed system of course.

*edit* I admit I have never thought about the problem from this angle before until you put me on the spot right there. My appraisal of the viability of proof of stake did not factor in any theories about entropy.

You sure do like to make a lot of assumptions. No I prefer proof of stake. I long ago thought through it and came to my own determination that POS does in fact work. As much as I love fluffypony he is wrong about that one. I just don't let my preferences in that regard get in the way of making money and being involved in great projects. Even if you are correct in that it is a necessarily centralizing force, that centralization would still take time. Plenty of time to make lots of money speculating and make lots of transactions utilizing its capabilities. Again you cant push a silver coin through an ethernet cable. This sector is needed and as long as it is needed it will continue to exist and as long as it exists people are going to capitalize the best projects even if those projects are flawed.

Haha well that logic only applies to real assets. I just invented a rare pepe. I have no artistic skill at all. Infact you cant even tell its a pepe. But i'll sell it to you right now for a million dollars. You know it's a great value because the sentiment is so bad that no one even knows it exists!

A good indication that it might be a good time to buy! The worse the sentiment the better the value.

You are missing that silver has one huge advantage over cryptos that makes it still important. It is non arbitrary. Cryptos are schemes that are hugely arbitrary in their implementation. Why is bitcoin better than litecoin? Why is it better than doge? Fundamentally it isn't. You might say something about it's brand or network. But monero is technologically superior and something will come that will be better than that. Cryptos will probably always be a tumultuous space as new better tech unseats the old over and over again. Wonderful for speculators, manageable for spenders, and terrible for savers. Silver on the other hand is sort of like money from god. It and gold of course. There are only a finite number of elements and the market settled on those two as the best monies, plain and simple, end of story. Silver doesn't get usurped by liteSilver which gets usurped by dogeSilver which gets usurped superUltraXXXSilverV. This is the sense in which I say that it is non arbitrary compared to value transfer protocol schemes and this is the sense in which it will retain its importance.

Also no need to leave it in the "safe keeping" of a jew. Plenty of nice goy out there who will look after it for you.

Do not mistake this for an indictment of Crypto-currencies. I LOVE cryptocurrencies. You know that though.

Also don't mistake it for a defense of the guy you were responding to. He is an idiot. I know this.

Sure I love silver. You might say I'm a silver maximalist. All this crypto speculation is just to get more silver in the end. However several points. You can't push silver through an ethernet cable; You cant carry your silver over a border easily; The infrastructure has not yet been built out for simple silver authenticity validation; And asteroid mining will someday massively disrupt the precious metals sector.

Also it's a crypto ledger is a pretty piss poor permissioned ledger if transaction validators do not have any unseful information about the transactions they are validating. No ability to gain any information about transactions means no ability to discriminate between them means all rejection of permission would be arbitrary in nature. You could reject people at random but never for a particular reason intrinsic to how they are using the currency or what they are using it for.

Would you like to propose a better alternative or just grouse about?

See gif above.