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3821  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin distribution vs Bitcoin adoption on: November 05, 2013, 11:24:45 PM
m talking about current distribution, which already looks very, very akward, with most of us having 0.5 to 20 BTC, and most of the BTC being held by people having 10k+.

Kinda like the real world?

Quote
I do understand this won't be a switch-like process, but:
[scenario snipped]

That assumes the neighbor was smart enough to hang on to 1,000 BTC through bubbles and crashes.  Most wont they will transfer those coins to someone else when the risk vs reward makes it worth it.   However do you honestly think your 1,000 BTC neighbor is never going to spend them?  He is going to be real world poor living in a cardboard box, starving do death but clutching his paper wallet.  No it is highly likely he will do what most rapidly wealth people do.  They spend it. When he does guess was what .... MORE DISTRIBUTION.

We are talking about adoption on a lifetime scale.  If nobody every spends/sells/trades BTC then it likely isn't going anywhere and thus holding 1% of nothing is still nothing.   If it does go somewhere big on a lifetime (30, 40, 60 years) scale then coins will have changed hands many times.

Not sure if you are just worried there will be Bitcoin rich.  Bitcoin was never designed to eliminate wealth disparity.   There will be Bitcoin rich and poor just like there are Dollar rich and poor.
3822  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin distribution vs Bitcoin adoption on: November 05, 2013, 11:03:35 PM
You pretend like there are only two finite states a) now and b) entire world uses Bitcoin.

The reality is the end state of Bitcoin is completely unknown and the time until that end state is also unknown.  Lots of early miners sold thousands of coins when Bitcoin hit $1 because it was "easy money". 

Distribution and adoption is a gradual process.  For every person who puts their coins in a paper wallet and refuses to look at the ticker out of fear of selling them another one sells off convinced Bitcoin will go lower.  I sold lots of BTC to lots of people and the overwhelming majority never mined a single coin, some of them would have no idea even how to setup a mining rig.   The largest of orders were on the order of 10,000 BTC. 

The idea that all the coins are held by some early CPU miners is laughable.



3823  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: I want to buy bitcoins with credit card? on: November 05, 2013, 09:27:16 PM
There is no "building trust" with a credit card that you can dispute 180 days later (or can be stolen and real owner disputes 180 days later).

Are you willing to wait >180 days to take delivery?
3824  Economy / Speculation / Re: Chances of $150 again on: November 05, 2013, 09:25:19 PM
Phht.  People that don't understand logarithmic scales...

Agreed however not that long ago people were holding out for single digits as ridiculous as that was so even the bears are moving the goal posts down the field.
3825  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Has the NSA already broken bitcoin? on: November 05, 2013, 09:02:53 PM
am i correct that a PRNG on a pc is used 2 ways in Bitcoin; generating a nonce for ECDSA signed tx's and generating SHA256 private keys?  any other function i'm missing?

For QT wallet (and probably othets) the encryption passphrase is salted using a nonce.  For deterministic wallets the master private key seed would be randomly generated.
3826  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: November 05, 2013, 08:53:46 PM
Not sure why BFL is so interested in this thread.  

It is also telling that Inaba assumes everyone else is always lying that is called projection.

Last I read BFL still had not delivered 3 of 3 units per minirig orders and were shipping them piecemeal (1/3rd of ordered hashrate at a time). 

So either
a) BFL finally caught up to 1 Jan (only 10 months later) in which case I guess that deserves a cookie.  It wasn't a lie simply a mistake as I don't track BFL every word every day.  Most people would say "your are incorrect we have shipped all of 2012 orders".

OR

b) Inaba is doing his classic twist and manipulate words.  BFL shipped minigrigs as three 500 GH/s units.  At one point they had shipped one "sub unit" per customer but not the full ordered amount.  I guess Inaba would call that "shipping all orders".  Most people wouldn't.

Either way I don't really care but I find it interesting that BFL seems to read this thread daily.   Worried?
3827  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: crack my sha256 hash, reward of up to $1000 USD on: November 05, 2013, 08:49:41 PM
In his countless other threads OP indicated it is 10 digits random (A-Z,a-z,0-9).
So 10 digits @ 64 values per digit  64^10 = 83,929,936,5868,340,224 combinations
7970 is ~ 1 billion SHA-256 attempts using hashcat.

83,929,936,5868,340,224 / 1,000,000,000 / 60 / 60 / 24 / 365 = 26 GPU years.  50% chance in half that so 13 GPU years.   Someone with a 13 GPU farm running 24/7/365 for an entire year would have a 50% chance of cracking it.

$1,000 is a joke.



okay you're a joke

clearly someone using just 1 gpu should just give up

why don't you mine bitcoins with just your ass cpu

Math vs insults I will side with the math.  
Not sure if it was a reading comprehension problem (nothing in there was about CPUs) or delusion.

3828  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Is heat all energy from mining? on: November 05, 2013, 08:42:33 PM
You have a weird idea of how a telephone line or a network works Smiley When you receive or transmit data your network card absorbs from the network approximately the same energy it emits. All this energy doesn't go somewhere: simply becomes heat.
But when I watch a picture on my screen, some of the electricity (data bits) that are being transferred to the monitor will become light energy when the monitor displays it.

When that light strikes something it will convert into heat.*  Energy is never lost only converted.

Computers (including bitcoin miners) do no WORK in the physics sense of the word.  Thus for all practical purposes 100% of the electrical energy becomes thermal energy (heat).

Run a miner which pulls 1 KW from the wall for 1 hour and you have 1 kWh electricity in, 1 kWh heat out.  

*If the light passes through your window some of the energy may convert into heat outside your house but for all intents and purposes this is a negligible rounding error.
3829  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Apparently you can buy hashes at 0.18 BTC/GH from cex.io (behind ghash.io) on: November 05, 2013, 08:33:00 PM
0.1 is still crazy.  Prices have a long way to go before reasonable territory.
3830  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: November 05, 2013, 08:29:55 PM
BFL should be shipping about that time (we'll see).

That probably is the least of your worries.  BFL hasn't even shipped all minirigs from last year.
3831  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-11-05 Forbes: This Swiss Cryptocurrency Trader Will Store Your Bitcoin... on: November 05, 2013, 05:12:19 PM
Worst business model ever.

Bitcoin doesn't need expensive vaults and it doesn't need the trust of a third party so let see ..

1) Put Bitcoins in expensive vaults where you have to trust a third party.
2) Huh
3) Profit
3832  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: 1700 Computers- low GPU AND CPU BEING USED on: November 05, 2013, 05:07:53 PM
An user to be part of a botnet has to be pretty dumb to begin with..

I have to disagree. Windows+firewall+antivirus is not enought to keep you out of malware I believe.

I need windows for games, but I expecting my comp is infected even though antivirus finds nothing.

Not really.  The vast majority of botnet nodes are older PCs usually Windows XP where the user turned off security updates.   They are getting infected from flaws there were patched 5-6 years ago on a OS that is over a decade old.
3833  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: 1700 Computers- low GPU AND CPU BEING USED on: November 05, 2013, 04:49:42 PM
I would be mining with zero cost. Obviously that is an advantage as I do not have to worry about any cost whatsoever.

Even with zero cost it is pointless.  We are talking like less than a cent per day.  If managing 1700 computers, stealing resources, dealing with crashes, is worth $0.01 per day in BTC then go ahead.
3834  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A proposal: Forget about mBTC and switch directly to Satoshis on: November 05, 2013, 07:35:58 AM
satoshi is simply too small for the intermediate future.


A large number of zeroes is annoying and excessive in either direction
0.015 BTC - cumbersome
1,500,000 sat - cumbersome
15 mBTC - just right.

3835  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: -- Butterfly Labs New 600GH "Mining Card" - RED FLAGS?!?! on: November 05, 2013, 07:32:01 AM
BFL doesn't have a real problem ... BFL customers have a real problem.  BFL will be laughing all the way to the bank.
3836  Economy / Services / Re: Looking for US citizens to order 5 prepaid debit cards (0.5 btc each) on: November 05, 2013, 05:41:47 AM
I am sure some people will want to "talk" to you.  Don't worry you have a very "good" defense.  It wasn't me I signed up for the cards but mailed them to an anonymous guy I met on the intertubes.
3837  Economy / Services / Re: Looking for US citizens to order 5 prepaid debit cards (0.5 btc each) on: November 05, 2013, 05:38:31 AM
these sites ask for my  Social Security number .

Of course it does.  It is mandatory for AML/KYC on prepaid cards.  He wants you to use your KYC information so that the accounts will be under your name and then give him the cards so he can conduct purchases in your name.  What could possibly go wrong?
3838  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Who will be the next "bASIC"? on: November 05, 2013, 04:35:34 AM
cointerra has been quiet lately it seems

Concur.  I see them as being the most likely, followed by HashFast.

The idea of 250W TDP in a single die just seems like the wrong approach to me.
Esp when that's the theoretical power consumption - which no one apart from Avalon even got close to. Estimate 250 = spec for 450, which isn't going to happen.

Well KNC got it right (came in significantly under simulation) so it is more than just Avalon.

Hyptohetically there is a miss and it does use 450W vs 250W at nominal voltage and clock.  Power is all relative.  It would be 450W at a given clockrate and voltage not at all voltage and clock speeds.  Lower the voltage and power drops by the square.  Lower the clock and power drops linearly.  If the system absolutely can't use more than 250W there is some combination of clockrate and voltage that gets you there.

This is exactly what Bitfury did.  
Of course this is true, but only if we don't care about hash rate promises. Which we do.

Well once again it is no different than if a small chip misses.  Bitfury did and used more chips to deliver the same hashpower.  Obviously they would have rather not missed and made an even larger profit but they adapted and met their promises.

If you miss you need to clock/volt down the chip and use more chips. 500 GH/s chip or 5 GH/s chip you still need to adjust.
3839  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Who will be the next "bASIC"? on: November 05, 2013, 04:02:50 AM
cointerra has been quiet lately it seems

Concur.  I see them as being the most likely, followed by HashFast.

The idea of 250W TDP in a single die just seems like the wrong approach to me.
Esp when that's the theoretical power consumption - which no one apart from Avalon even got close to. Estimate 250 = spec for 450, which isn't going to happen.

Well KNC got it right (came in significantly under simulation) so it is more than just Avalon.

Hyptohetically there is a miss and it does use 450W vs 250W at nominal voltage and clock.  Power is all relative.  It would be 450W at a given clockrate and voltage not at all voltage and clock speeds.  Lower the voltage and power drops by the square.  Lower the clock and power drops linearly.  If the system absolutely can't use more than 250W there is some combination of clockrate and voltage that gets you there.

This is exactly what Bitfury did. 
3840  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Who will be the next "bASIC"? on: November 05, 2013, 04:00:11 AM
Too soon for 14nm then.  22nm?   Grin

About 2-3 years too son for economical 20/22nm.
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