That is the concept.  crumbs likes to scare people with the hot term hot like the air will be blasting hot.  In reality the air would be nowhere even near 40C.  250W per radiator and 50 CFM means a 3C rise in temp.  So 25C in and 28C out.


It is almost certainly OEM version of H60 or one very similar.  Thanks for the links.  While our resident troll is unlikely to stop trolling they will be useful for those who wish to be informed.

One way to look at it is in purely air-cooled setup the air will be warmed up by exactly the same amount.  So air flows over processor heats up and flows over the downstream components.  If slightly warmed air would be so dangerous then no air cooled system would work.  For example many GPU designs cool the ram after the GPU itself.  The air reaching the ram will already been warmed.

So why didn't hashfast just use air cooling?  Simple it is a matter of surface area.  The amount of airflow needed to transfer a given amount of heat (in this case 250W nominal) is inversely related to the surface area.  So larger surface area, lower airflow needed.  The heatload in the chip is very concentrated.  All 250W are produced in less than 1cm2.  Even with a large copper heatpipe type cooler you are talking about a lot of needed airflow.  Also (like seen in KNC design) you run into potential issues of trying to route airflow evenly across all modules. 

By moving the heat to the radiator you greatly increase the surface area.  Same amount of heat but now it can be cooled easier with lower cfm fans and with less hotspots and air routing issues.

Yes you see that larged finned component which is taller than the processor waterblock.  The purpose of the fins is to increase the surface area relative to a flat component.  Given the height of the fins (43mm) and the dimensions of the component (~100mm by 20mm) we are talking a pretty large surface area for something which has a staggering heat load of 12.5W.   Yup less than a CFL light bulb.


That is right PER CHIP the nominal wattage is 250W.  The DC converters will therefore produce a heat load of a staggering 25W.  Actually on second thought there are two regulators per board so it is more like 12.5W.   12.5W per regulator with large finned heat sink producing a large surface area.   A low airflow is sufficient to keep temps <50C over ambient.

Lower isn't low.  Your statement was it was would "hot and very low velocity".   

Standard heat capacity of air is 0.569 W C/CFM  Chip thermal output is 250W.  So we are looking at rise in air temp of C = 142/CFM.  At 50 CFM per radiator it is <3C rise in air temp over ambient.   Obvious your concern is that a system which will operate at ambient without issue is going to ignite at 3C over ambient.

The reality is the airflow will be slightly warmer and still sufficiently fast to cool components with very load heat loads.   If chip uses 250W and the DC converter is 90% efficient we are talking 25W on heatload over a relatively large surface area (enhanced by the large heat sink fins on the module).  The rest of the components on the board would be a rounding error in terms of heat output.  It is a complete non-issue.  

Well "hot" is all relative.  Hotter than ambient?  Sure.  Hot enough to make cooling ineffcient unlikely.  If component is rated for 60C (most are 85C) and the intake air is 27C that is a huge delta T.  More than enough for sufficient cooling.  Why do you assume the velocity will be low?  With pusher and puller fans on radiator plus exhaust fans you base this assumption on very low velocity based on what?

It is most wattage and amperage but ON THE 5V rail.

Watts = Current  * Voltage

The nameplate you posted shows 5V rail is rated for 25A max.
Watts = 25A * 5V
Watts = 125W

Your PSU is good for 125W on the 5V rail although you may want to back it off a little bit.  85% load would be 106W.

It is very rare for a modern PSU to have more than 125W (25A) on the 5V rail simply because almost no application needs more than half that.  Making a PSU have 250W on the 5V rail could be done it would just cost more for no benefit.  

Single low efficiency, high cost, no name brand piece of garbage PSU vs rock solid nearly perfect reviews SeaSonics.


and disrupt the airflow to the radiators which is the single most important components.  So nice ice cold power supply (which is designed to use case air) and worse airflow to the radiators. 


Because it is 50% more per chassis and rack than 2 modules.  Still if it bothers you buy 2 and split it into two units.  Problem solved.

Then again you have no intention of buying one, in any configuration, at any price you are just here to troll.

Or not.  Depending on airflow through the radiators we are talking a 5C to 10C rise over ambient.  Would be nice is HF provided us the exact airflow of the fans I could tell you exactly how much the temp will rise.  Still if your ambient air temp is 22C you are looking at 27 to 32C.  For components rated at 60C the difference between 22C and 27C is nothing.

Actually no.  Not sure why you keep stating this as it is 100% backwards.  In an ATX power supply intake is on the side, exhaust is out the back.  Every ATX power supply ever made, by every single vendor.

Thanks.  I agree the Monarch is going to be large but reading between the lines BFL is now saying Feb delivery.  If BFL is saying Feb delivery then I think they really mean we will try to ship them in March but probably won't until April and then our volume will be so slow it will take till June or August to complete the sales.  So I think your 6 PH/s for Monarch is a good guestimate starting point I just don't think the rollout will even begin until Mar/Apr and even then it probably will be spread out over months (say 2 PH/s per month for 3 months).  At that point it will be a relatively small portion of the network.  One point to consider is that BFL reported the Monarch would tapeout in Sept.  AFAIK they have never provided confirmation that it happened or when it happened despite numerous requests from customers.  If they haven't taped then delivery in Feb starts to look very unlikely.  Even if they have tapped BFL would need to "not be BFL" and get everything right (everything they got wrong on the first 3 products) to make Feb.


Oh I will take that bet if it is even money.  I don't need absolute certainty just reasonable odds.  Given BFL track record and the fact that HashFast is simply finished if they miss both product launch AND MPP delivery (which likely means they miss batch 2 and batch 3, and upgrade deadlines as well) I would feel very confident in betting the MPP is hashing well before BFL ships the Monarch.

Where is your open sales thread.  Was the $1500 offer for the MPP module or your batch 1BabyJet? 
Obviously if someone is going to buy your MPP module for $1,500 then a BabyJet delivered 90 days prior would have more value right?

Someone will need to try.  Like I said no USB hub discloses the internal configuration so it will need some trial and error.  2 or 3 is probably fine it each one is directly connect to the PC.

Friedcat also promised 1 PH/s by the end of this year and 500 TH/s months ago.  BTW I am an ASICMiner shareholder but they obviously have some issues as their hashrate skyrocketed from nothing to 50 TH/s over the course of a few months and then has essentially flatlined for the last 3 months while the network exploded in difficulty.

Still like I said it could happen we could see >28 PH/s in February in which case it really doesn't matter every ASIC from every company not already delivered and actively hashing is almost certainly negative roi.  It doesn't really matter which horse you have your cart hitched to they are all going into the river.

Sometimes old junk turns out to be a treasure.

The issue is that on modern PC the 5V rail really isn't used much.  Today almost all PC convert 100% of the power from AC to 12VDC.  Then whatever is needed on 5V and 3.3V rails is converted off the 12V rail.   99% of PC never use more than 10W on 5V rail so building massive 5V rails just means added cost for no benefit.

One thing to check is the wire gauge on your PSU ATX harness.  If it is really chip thin wires (the AWG should be stamped on the wire) it may not be able to handle a high current.

Be careful USB also limits the number of chained decvices to 6 including the end device, any hubs, and the root hub (usb port on host).  Most USB hubs > 8 ports are actually multiple hubs chained together. 

That would assume the network is >28 PH/s by February.  Does that seem likely to you.   A guestimate of pre-orders is closer to 11 to 13 PH/s by January. Of course you might be right and if so then no future sales as well as undelivered existing sales from any vendor at any price is likely to be negative return.  Then again law of large numbers and all that it will be increasingly difficulty for the network to continue to double indefinitely.  We got a big ~50% bump due to KNC's rollout but for example to make another 50% bump would mean another >1.75 PH/s in the next week.  I don't think that will happen.  Since neither HF or KNC is shipping anything in volume until mid Nov I don't think the rest of the vendors have enough supply to sustain that growth.

What Melbustus was pointing out is the value of the MPP depends on the hashrate at the time of MPP delivery.  His math shows ~16.2 PH/s is a break even scenario.  >16.2 PH/s is a loss and under 16.2 PH/s is a gain.

You guys are saying the same thing although I believe your >28 PH/s is fringe of what is probable.   

More likely to be direct DC regulators like this than transformers.

The fund doesn't exist yet.  The funds doesn't own any Bitcoins. 

USB is 5V almost certainly the unit isn't doing 100W+ 12V to 5V conversion so it is powered by the 5V pins on ATX connector.

I probably won't do it justice but the lines are out of phase.  AC power is a waveform.   The phases don't peak at the same time they are offset by 30 deg.   The 1.73 comes from 2 cos(30 deg).

This diagram might help.



If you look at Phase-B it peaks at right below the letter "e" in Phase-B.  Now draw a vertical line down to the Phase-A.  You notice at the same point where Phase B has a positive peak, Phase A isn't at the negative peak, it is slightly less.   How much less well about 0.73x the peak.  If the distance from peak to centerline is 1 the distance from one phase to another when one phase is peaking is 1.73.  Using voltage, image the x-axis as ground (0 V) and each phase peaks at 277V.  So you can mark the top and bottom of the graph as 277V. If the peak voltage is 277V then the voltage between any two phases is 1.73*277V=480V.  A to B = 480V, B to C = 480V A to C = 480V.  A to GND = 277V. B to GND = 277V.  C to GND = 277V.

As for "why"?  It is more efficient in terms of power vs size and number of conductors.

BTW I believe it is 480V not 460V.  Each of the phases has a line to ground voltage of 277V.  They are tapped line to line producing 1.73*277V=480V between conductors.

The more efficient ASICs aren't going to be obsolete in a few months at least not in low power cost areas.  What is going to obsolete a 0.8 J/GH miner ... someone buying another 0.8 J/GH miner?  Why would they if it is obsolete?  If they don't how did the first one become obsolete.

For difficulty to go up someone has to be deploying hardware. Now the BFL 65nm stuff, ASICMiner, Avalon, etc yeah that is likely going into the trash in 2014 but I say it is more like summer 2014.  It will get traded from people with high power (who should never have considered mining to begin with) to those with low power and then from their to the trash heap.