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3661  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: something i didn't realize when backing up my wallet on: November 08, 2013, 08:15:17 AM
No unless you like losing keys, unpredictability, or bitcoind halting your automated system because you didn't do a backup you didn't know you needed to do until it halted.
I don't understand, if bitcoin-qt instead of generating new keys every-time did it periodically then wallet state will not change so often, it will also enable it to ask for backup when wallet state changes, that way user knows when to do backup, currently only safe way is to backup after every transaction.

e.g if it generates 1000 keys to start with and uses those only and once it reaches 100, generates 900 more and asks user to back it up, what is the harm in that?

bitcoind is often used in automated processes.  I much prefer my company wallet being automatically backed up every day and knowing I have multiple backups then an intrusive system which waits to refill the keypool and forces me to do a manual backup on a unpredictable schedule.

What if the user makes a backup right before the keypool exhausts and being a user (think your grandmother) assumes he is "covered" he just made a backup 5 minutes ago it must be good.  Then they keypool refreshes making his backup 5 minutes ago worthless?

What happens if you are right in the middle of sending out a batch of payments.  Will the system halt and lock you out of your own money until it forces you to make a backup?   Will it actively prevent you from using the wallet.   If it doesn't and the wallet fails you just lost keys and funds.

What happens if the backup is corrupted?  Your prior backups are completely useless because backups between refreshes contain less and less new keys?

Of course the client is open source.  Feel free to fork it and implement a different backup system.    Honestly given all the potential use and applications I can't see a more universal solution than make regular backups and the backup will contain all used keys and X future keys.  Still this is somewhat academic, long term all wallets will be deterministic anyways.





3662  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Alydian bankrupt on: November 08, 2013, 08:09:47 AM
I'm glad they failed.  Peter Vessenes is a jerk.  Alydian was trying to cater to "old money" hoping they would jump on board and squeeze the rest of us out for Peter's own selfish gain.

At the end of the day, I'm sure their debts can be paid off easily if they can draw the bankruptcy out for a while.  I'm sure Peter has more than enough BTC to cover the loss if the spot price goes higher.

Why would he do that? He likes giving away his personal wealth?  It is a corporation.  Baring fraud on the part of the CEO the investors claim is with the corporation, which according to the report has $50,000 in assets for $3.6M in debt.

Maybe in the future they will make wiser investments.  Note it was a major VC firm it isn't like they aren't capable of due diligence.
3663  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: something i didn't realize when backing up my wallet on: November 08, 2013, 08:04:41 AM
It would make backups before the pool exhausts useless.
isn't that a good thing

No unless you like losing keys, unpredictability, or bitcoind halting your automated system because you didn't do a backup you didn't know you needed to do until it halted.

As it stands now every backup is useful.  It resets the "future key clock" to the limit of the pool (default 100).  So if you do a daily or weekly backup your backup will ALWAYS have all keys and the next 100 future keys.

Backups should always be periodic.  Setup your system to backup the wallet.dat once per week and set your keypool large enough to cover two weeks usage and at all times you should have two valid backups (in case of a file corruption issue).   Nothing to think about, no risk of creating keys which aren't backed up, no intrusive system where bitcoind has to prevent you from using your own money because it just foolishly exhausted the keypool and needs you to stop and manually make a backup right now.
3664  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: something i didn't realize when backing up my wallet on: November 08, 2013, 07:57:13 AM

In the QT client the keypool is continually refreshed.  While the keypool contains 100 keys every send requires a new change address so the oldest key from the keypool is used AND a new key created and added to the keypool.  The keypool is always at 100 keys (baring some unusual situations where wallet can't be unlocked).

So yes the wallet would need to warn you to backup every single time you sent a transaction OR clicked New Address.

So what is the benefit of keeping the pool always 100? instead why not let it deplete and when it reaches threshold refill the pool and ask for backup?

It would make backups before the pool exhausts useless.  As it works now any backup made at anytime covers all active addresses and the NEXT 100 future addresses.   It also means that prior backs (if not overwritten) likely are also effective and can be used as a backup for the backup if you do more than 1 backup per 100 key uses.

My keypool is 1,000 keys.  My highest weekly usage ever was ~130 keys.  I backup automatically once a week with sequentially named backups.  The likelihood of losing any keys is essentially zero.
3665  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: something i didn't realize when backing up my wallet on: November 08, 2013, 07:56:24 AM
When wallet creates a new key automatically, it should ask for a backup with warning and get confirmation before proceeding, this is a very silly bug in software claiming to be ver 0.8

So every transaction you mean.  You want the wallet to warn you to backup after every single send?
Why would wallet create a new key after each transaction, can't/doesn't it have a pool of keys?

It does but it doesn't allow the keypool to run out.  It adds a new key to the keypool everytime one is used.

Imagine a wallet has a keypool which contains 100 address.  We will number them 1 to 100.

So:
Active Addresses: None
Keypool: 1 ... 100

If you took a backup right now you will notice you have all the addresses backed up to #100.


You need a new address.  The wallet pulls the oldest key from the keypool "1".  It immediately add a NEW key to the keypool lets call that 101.

Active Addresses: 1
Keypool: 2 ... 101

Next address used
Active Addresses: 1, 2
Keypool: 3 ... 102


48 more addresses used.
Active Addresses: 1, 2 .... 50
Keypool: 51 ... 150

50 more addresses used
Active Addresses: 1, 2 .... 100
Keypool: 101 ... 200

If you used another address it wouldn't be included in your backup.

3666  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: something i didn't realize when backing up my wallet on: November 08, 2013, 07:51:49 AM
I didn't get it. Do you mean there will be a new address generated after each payment, or after 100 payments? Currently, i can only see the addresses manually created by myself, and I will only backup when I created a new address. I am using multibit.

In the QT client the keypool is continually refreshed.  While the keypool contains 100 keys every send requires a new change address so the oldest key from the keypool is used AND a new key created and added to the keypool.  The keypool is always at 100 keys (baring some unusual situations where wallet can't be unlocked).

So yes the wallet would need to warn you to backup every single time you sent a transaction OR clicked New Address.
3667  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Are you in the USA? on: November 08, 2013, 07:38:03 AM
Do you know how to properly title threads?
Do you know how to select the proper sub forum?

(Hint: they are rhetorical questions the answer is no)
3668  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: something i didn't realize when backing up my wallet on: November 08, 2013, 07:34:15 AM
When wallet creates a new key automatically, it should ask for a backup with warning and get confirmation before proceeding, this is a very silly bug in software claiming to be ver 0.8

So every transaction you mean.  You want the wallet to warn you to backup after every single send?
3669  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Cheapest Service for renting mining/hashing power on: November 08, 2013, 07:13:41 AM
None.

If you had a rig which would produce X BTC per day (after operating costs) why would rent it for less than x BTC per day?

Why not just run the rig and collect X BTC?
3670  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin Wallet generation by hand on: November 08, 2013, 07:02:18 AM
There seems to be some confusion between ADDRESS and PUBLIC KEY.

The PUBLIC KEY is computed from the PRIVATE KEY using ECDSA.

The ADDRESS is the PUBLIC KEY triple hashed and checksumed.

It is utterly impossible for a human in any reasonable amount of time and with any reasonable accuracy (don't want to be sending funds to the wrong address) to perform the hashing necessary to create the ADDRESS.

However the OP asked about the PUBLIC KEY.  It would seem difficulty but possible to compute the PUBLIC KEY from the PRIVATE KEY.  Then transfer only the PUBLIC KEY to a computer and use a simple program to compute the full ADDRESS.

Sorry for the annoying caps but seems many people can't grasp the difference between PRIVATE KEY, PUBLIC KEY, and ADDRESS.  If you are one of them they are three distinct things. ADDRESS =/= PUBLIC KEY.
3671  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Alydian bankrupt on: November 08, 2013, 06:35:48 AM
Curious on what exactly they burned $3M in funding on in a mere three months.  I mean even for hookers and blow we are talking $33K per day.
3672  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin thief techniques on: November 08, 2013, 06:30:32 AM
To decrypt an encrypted wallet.dat two possibilities:
a) keylogger

or

b) you claim short but unique.  Short = worthless password.  If it was short enough it may have simply been brute forced.  If it had been long and unique that would have been more interesting.  Care to share the password?  Hopefully you are not using it anywhere else, you should assume the attacker knows it.
3673  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: A guy insisted on buying my private key instead of an actual transaction - why? on: November 08, 2013, 06:21:05 AM
Or he was just a middleman. A private key on a slip of paper can change hands many times without ever touching the blockchain.

I guess but very risky.  When the tx was done the OP could have sent the coins to a new address.  Proving it was the OP not the middle man who moved the coins after the fact would essentially be impossible.
3674  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: A guy insisted on buying my private key instead of an actual transaction - why? on: November 08, 2013, 06:18:54 AM
the less a coin moves (less transactions) the cleaner it is so by taking the private key and not sending the coins via a transaction, saves on the movements a coin makes

i know people that would love to have a private key that contains coins that are only just mined or have only moved 1 hop from a mining pool

Except he did move the coins.  Not moving the coins would be an asinine security risk as the owner could simply take them back at any point until they are moved.

3675  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: A guy insisted on buying my private key instead of an actual transaction - why? on: November 08, 2013, 06:13:59 AM
No idea.  He probably (incorrectly) thought it would somehow be more secure or less traceable.
3676  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: unconfirmed transaction on: November 08, 2013, 06:12:38 AM
Wait and complain to them for not including a fee.
3677  Economy / Speculation / Re: price disparity between exchanges on: November 08, 2013, 05:58:20 AM
This is why MtGox needs to finally get their ass in gear and start trading litecoin, which could be the facilitator between the exchanges (at least Gox and BT-e) and help stabilize/regulate the price between the two.

That said, I know Gox getting anything in gear is wishful thinking though.

No it wouldn't.  There is no issue in moving BTC between exchanges.  The issue is in moving USD from MtGox to your account to another exchange.   LTC won't magic that problem away.  MtGox fixing their banking system or moving to a country where they can fix their bank access will solve that problem.
3678  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: November 08, 2013, 05:55:03 AM
Gen2 sometime in march, altech/knc announcing work already underway on 16/20nm designs.

Yes it was an assumption on my part. It may not be 16nm (looking now - too early/costly) but I think knc will have something to announce soon for 2014. 20nm in march might be a stretch but nothing is impossible.

Well TSMC 20nm line starting in 2014 is CLN20SOC, for low powered devices (think mobile phones, <10W, system on a chip type designs).  TSMC high performance 20nm line won't be available til Q3-2014 and even then prices are extremely high and availability very limited.  So yes I would say impossible not a stretch but we will see.

Maybe I should make a wager on bitbet could probably clean up.
3679  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s on: November 08, 2013, 05:39:10 AM
Volume just means non-prototype.  The article I linked to was a month old.  There are plenty of similar ones only days old.  The number of 20nm designs for the entire year is a couple dozen.  Did KNC secure one of those coveted slots I doubt it given the number of industry giants who likely will be excluded from 20nm in 2014.  

Still your first claim was:
Quote
KNC also looking to come out with their 16/20nm miner around March 2014.

I think we can agree
a) KNC said nothing of the such
b) March isn't even a possibility for 20nm.
c) 2014 isn't even a possibility for 16nm.

I put money on 2015 at the earliest you may disagree but at least you admit than any 1620nm in March sometime in 2014 is your assumption not a statement by KNC.
3680  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: November 08, 2013, 05:28:56 AM
i just ordered a november saturn!  Tongue Grin

I thought they were already sold out of Nov Saturns.
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