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3761  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there a way to build a wallet generator till you hit the jackpot ? on: November 06, 2013, 11:17:08 PM
Say you know a particular vps was used to generate many wallets , and you know all the settings of that server (ram, HARDDRIVE, MAC address,etc), and rolled back your system clock to around the time that you knew it was generating its wallets. Would that increase your chances at all?

No.  Not unless they is a flaw in the PRNG.  The entropy pool is filled by chaotic events like pagefaults, mouse click intervals, cpu temp, etc.  The same user likely couldn't produce the same entropy pool if they tried.  Now if the distribution of the PRNG is flawed then one could increase their chances by focusing on the area with higher occurance but unless it is horribly flawed that would just give you an academic speed up at best (i.e. a planetary sized supercomputer needing "only" 1B years instead of 100B years).

Still on a more general level the security of a wallet any wallet is only as good as the PRNG so that should be an area of scrutiny.  If you are really concerned there are hardware RNG.
3762  Economy / Speculation / Re: Planning your Bitcoin Withdrawals on: November 06, 2013, 11:04:17 PM
I know you are not my tax professional, but are you a tax professional or just a guy who got burned?  And was your capital gains you got burned on less than or more than 1 year old?

Just a guy who got burned, having to write a giant check to the IRS when you were totally not expecting is a motivator to do some self research.  It was a long term gain and I naively thought that meant 0%.  It didn't.  I found out when the IRS sent me a "friendly" letter advising me I was delinquent and demanding payment in full.

Ironically I actually did work for H&R block when I was 19 (and learned absolutely nothing useful "tax pro" school is about 3 weeks long so "tax pro" doesn't mean a whole lot).  Use a CPA is you want a real professional.

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Everything I read says that only short-term capital gains are considered income.  Not long-term.  

Well I gave you the exact forms and line numbers.  You could pretend and fill out the forms yourself using $1M in long term gain and $0 in wages and see what you get.  Hint it won't be taxes = $0.00.  It should take you all of 5 minutes.  The answer is right there in black and white.
3763  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: 38 th/s BTC miner on the way.. on: November 06, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
The point is that Bitcoin is perfectly parallel. Even those 1.2 TH/s "units" consists of 400 to 500 GH/s boards.  It makes absolutely not sense to sell a 38 TH/s unit.  You could just sell lots of 2 TH/s units.  Modular, cheaper mainstream power supplies, redundancy (one unit fails send 2 TH/s back for RMA and keep mining with the other 36 TH/s not 38 TH/s).

Today you could buy 20 Cointerra rigs and put them into a datacenter rack and tada 40 TH/s.  What does a single 38 TH/s unit get you?  Bitcoin is an embarrassingly easy parallel problem.  It means twenty 2 TH/s units work just as efficiently as a single 40 TH/s unit.  The advantage of smaller units if you can use off the shelf parts (cooling, power, cases, data, etc).

3764  Economy / Speculation / Re: What happens when BTC is too expensive to buy? on: November 06, 2013, 10:41:18 PM
The number of coins is immaterial.  

It is like saying who is going to buy gold at $20 million per ton (a very good price BTW).  I can barely afford 0.00001 tons.

As for 1/10th of a coin being a lower return than 1 coin come on man is basic math not taught in school anymore.

If you spend $200 for 1 BTC and the exchange rate doubles you now have $400 worth of BTC.
If in some hypothetical future you spend $200 for 1/10th of a BTC and the exchange rate doubles you now have .... TADA ... $400 worth of BTC.


Still if you are worried and your only interest in hype and massive returns there is this revolutionary "altcoin" which has tracked the exact same return as Bitcoin.  You can buy 1 mBTC for the low price of ~$0.25 ea. UNDER A DOLLAR!!!!! MUCH BETTER THAN BITCOIN. Amazing.  Think of how much you can make if 1 mBTC goes to $200.  INSANE PROFITS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!  Plus while you wait to make your billions you can spend/trade/exchange your mBTC EVERYWHERE THAT TAKES BITCOIN.  Forget BTC buy mBTC today.
3765  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ixcoin TODO on: November 06, 2013, 10:36:31 PM
Maybe we'll get lucky and the dev will come back and kill this poor, dying animal.
(We all know there's not gonna happen)

Once again failing to understand the concept of open source.  What magical powers would the creator use to kill a cryptocurrency?  Is he going to hack into your computer and steal your copy of the blockchain and client?
Nobody would be interested in cryptocurrencies if Satoshi for example could just show up and flip the off switch on Bitcoin.  The point of a cryptocurrency is to allow payments between two parties without the need for the third party (central authority).

Crypto currencies will live on as long as someone is mining and doing enough development to fix fatal bugs (or as long as people keep buying them on dubious hope that the banks will swoop in and make them overnight millionaires with no work or effort on their part).
3766  Economy / Speculation / Re: Planning your Bitcoin Withdrawals on: November 06, 2013, 10:03:14 PM
Key word in the two lowest tax brackets.  I doubt most people would consider the two lowest tax brackets as "rich".

But "rich" people can drop themselves down into the lowest tax brackets. For example, if bitcoins go up high enough, I'll pay off my mortgage, have no other debt, and be able to reduce my regularly needed income to much lower levels and stay down in the bottom tax brackets while living very comfortably.

How are you going to pay off your mortgage?  By selling $200K worth of BTC?  That is going to put you above the first two tax brackets.  Smiley

Can someone live on $38K in taxable income.  Sure.  People live on a lot less.  It is hardly what I would consider rich.  If you are living on more than that well you are going to pay capital gains taxes.  

Not really interested in debating anymore.  tvbcof wants to believe the "rich" pay nothing in capital gains taxes well maybe someday he will be "rich" and find out that isn't the case.   It will be far worse if in the future IRS decides to classify Bitcoin capital gains as Forex capital gains (which logically makes sense) as the rates will go even higher (60/40 rule).

IANATA, but my understanding is that your capital gains don't count toward your salary.  You could pull out a million dollars worth of BTC and it's fine as long as you held it for a year and your other income is below 34K/38K whatever it is.

(Actually, $69K joint as pointed out here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States#History_of_capital_gains_tax_in_the_U.S.)

Everything I read says that long-term gains are capital gains and not ordinary income, which means that they don't count toward the $34K/$38K/$69K.

The bolded pertion is incorrect. Trust me I know for painful personal experience (>$100K tax bill).  The simple version is they are taxed at their own rate but ALL INCOME counts towards the taxable income number (and in this case WHICH capital gains rate will apply).  For the simple version take a look at line 22 of Form 1040.  It is total income.  Note it is a sum of lines 7 to 21.  Line 13 is Capital gains.

Total Income (see line 22) = Wages + Capital Gains + Business Income + etc
Taxable Income (see line 43) = Total Income - Deductions - Exemptions
Taxes (see line 44) = Taxable Income * Rates <- the different types of revenue are computed at their own rate but that doesn't change the fact that all income from all sources in all forms is part of taxable income.

The complicated version (only follow if you enjoy tax hell).
It really only makes sense if you have a copy of "Schedule D", "Form 1040", and "Capital Gains Tax Computation Worksheet" in front of you.  You can google those terms and get copies of the forms.  
It begins in the "Schedule D".  Gains are separated into long term and short term capital gains but the total capital gains is computed in line 16.
The total capital gain (line 16) from Schedule D is transferred to the "Form 1040" under line 13.  You can see this both in Schedule D instruction for line 16 AND the fact that line 13 on 1040 is labeled "capital gains".

So on form 1040 the total capital gain is copied to line 13.  You will notice that line 22 is total income.  It is the sum of lines 7 to 21 (wages, capital gains, dividends, business income, etc).  On the next page deductions, and exemptions are subtracted from total income to finally end up at "taxable income" (line 43).  Line 44 is taxes.  If you only have regular income you can just look that up but if you have long term capital gains you need to use the ultra fun "Capital Gains Tax Computation Worksheet".  

So on the "Capital Gains Tax Computation Worksheet" for those following along in the home game, you will see you it starts with your taxable income (which includes all forms of income including capital gains) on line 1.  On line 8 the max of the 15% bracket is computed, and subtracted on line 11.  So if you have more income than the max of the 15% bracket line 11 will be positive.  The rest (lines 12 to 19) is computed using a combination of the capital gains rate for >15% bracket or regular income rate.

Capital gains are calculated at the capital gains RATE however they are included in taxable income for the determination of what that rate is.  At one time for long term it was 0% or 15% but it is now 0%/15%/20% plus a bonus (on a completely different form 3.8% to pay for ObamaCare) and then you can add states taxes to that as well as MOST states simply use federal taxable income (line 43) to determine state taxable income.  Worse for 2013 onward is short term gains are regular income PLUS the 3.8% bonus ObamaCare tax so you end up paying more than regular income.
3767  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com on: November 06, 2013, 09:22:05 PM
Relax, I understand you are under a lot of pressure with Hashfast currently no need to take it out on me.

Weak.  As stated before I have a single unit on order with KNC, HF, and Bitfury each.  It is of no stress I intend to experiment with them (and there is a non zero chance I will damage them in the process).  Depending on how well the perform in immersion cooling will depend on if I make a large purchase in 2014 (when prices are lower).  I consider all of them high cost prototypes.  If I break even a across all three that will be a success.

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If someone calls in and asks for an advanced RMA and doesn't return their "Broke One" (Which for this scenario it isn't broke) then they now have an extra module and effectively skipped the lines. Worse yet, they actually took a working module away from someone that needed an RMA (I assume they don't have many modules just floating around).

So set the deposit at greater than fair market value.  At $4000 deposit per module RMA I doubt many would be willing to "jump the line" and if people don't want to pay a deposit they can ship first.  As far as not having many modules lying around I would certainly hope they do for both future RMAs and the Nov orders (mine included).  As others have said if you don't want to do something you can always find a reason why it is "impossible".
3768  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Open Source Avalon Gen2 55nm Board on: November 06, 2013, 09:07:31 PM
can the 2nd level pcb be mered into a single PCB? having the extra steps of assembly will make costs significantly higher for this design. KISS method

The entire "second level pcb" is a standalone part. 
3769  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ixcoin TODO on: November 06, 2013, 08:29:45 PM
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Secondly, are you joking about the necessity of a dev in order to do updates to a coin?  Lol, does a noob have to explain open source to you.

I can do the updates if I could program or if want to pay for them.

Who are you going to pay to do development?  A monkey?  A janitor?  A cosmonaut?
I am pretty sure if would be a SOFTWARE DEVELOPER aka a "dev".  


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Unless your definition of a dev now is anyone who adds a single line of code.  In that case, 90% of the people on these forums are now devs.  Ha!

Anyone who can add a meaningful improvement to the codebase IS A POTENTIAL DEVELOPER.  That is the whole damn point of open source.  What do you think the creator of IXC was?  A guy who added some lines of code to Bitcoin and made IXC.  That concept is called software development.  There is nothing special about the creator.  In your mind you seem to think the creator of an open source project holds mystical powers and thus has the title of "dev".  A developer is someone who develops the codebase.   On a large open source project like Bitcoin many additions to the codebase are not included, many are refined by multiple people over a period of time.  Sometimes developers get annoyed with the process and fork the project to start a new one, either one that is compatible (i.e. another client for Bitcoin) or incompatible (i.e. alt-coin).

If you think 90% of this forum is software developers well that explains why you are so confused about a lot of things.  A minority of people on this forum can write software (beyond "hello world" examples).
3770  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: 38 th/s BTC miner on the way.. on: November 06, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
Monarch is around 0.5W/GH/s which is probably more representative which would want 19 kW for 38 TH/s.

Monarch isn't 0.5 J/GH at the wall.  The chip "may" use 0.5 J/GH but when you add in 10% (or more) DC conversion losses, 10% (or more ATX PSU losses), plus the balance of the system you are closer to 0.8 J/GH which is suprisingly pretty close to the numbers from Cointerra, HashFast, and KNC.  Not that surprising given there is only so much efficiency possibly at 28 nm.
3771  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ixcoin TODO on: November 06, 2013, 08:17:01 PM
Watch how the Winklevoss twins turn $20 million into $1 Billion in under 1 year once the ETF launches.  

Yeah that isn't how ETFs work.  The shares are owned by the shareholders.  If Bitcoin explodes in price the shareholders realize the game not the ETF trustee.  The ETF management company makes a profit on transaction and operational fees and they make those profits regardless of the price.  It is like saying MtGox made billions because the price of Bitcoin went up.

Your delusional if you think a bank can take $1K worth of worthless IXC and convince investors to pay 1000x that.  They would simply buy their own IXC at no markup.  

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Code upgrades can be done without devs

dev = "software developer".  No code upgrades won't happen without a developer as you are finding out now.  I think you still have problems with the concept of open source.  The person who starts an open source project doesn't "own" or "control" it.  Gavin is a lead developer for Bitcoin he wasn't at the begining and he may not at some point in the future.  Also Gavin isn't the only developer and in the early history of Bitcoin Satoshi wasn't either.  There are dozens of developers working part time on Bitcoin. Bugs are fixed, performance is improved, features are added because many developers are working on Bitcoin over time.  However no developer = no development.  IXC lacks things like basic encryption because it has no development.  Just holding a bunch of coins and praying for the banks to make you rich isn't going to change that.
3772  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Long term Scalability of Bitcoin and the 1 MB block size limit on: November 06, 2013, 08:11:31 PM
Price of 1Gb of storage:
1981 $300000
1987 $50000
1990 $10000
1994 $1000
1997 $100
2000 $10
2004 $1
2012 $0.10
(via @scienceporn)

Nice one.  I remember 1995 clearly as I splurged and bought one of the first economical 1GB drives for a little over $300.  It arrived DOA but luckily the RMA worked fine for years.  When most HDD were measured in MB I had a GB.  I bought it to be able to duplicate CD-ROMs faster and more reliably (as blanks cost IIRC something like $15).  There were a lot of burned copies of warcraft floating around the dorm that year. Smiley
3773  Economy / Speculation / Re: Planning your Bitcoin Withdrawals on: November 06, 2013, 08:02:09 PM
the whole short term/ long term thing has always struck me as a scam.  People of a certain level of wealth can easily sit on something of value for a few years.  How that justifies a 25% reduction in tax rate, I have no idea.

The goal was to have all capital gains at 0% for all income brackets.  The longs term gains at 0%/15%/20% depending on income and short term gains at normal income was the "compromise".  Simplified republicans wanted no capital gains tax on anything, the Dems wanted to keep it at regular income, and the complicated tax mess we have today is the compromise in the middle.  Personally I believe interest, dividends, and capital gains should be tax free but if you think the current situation is a scam you likely are going to lynch me so we will save that for another day (hint: you were already taxed on the income BEFORE you wisely invested it).

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My understanding from my talks with my CPA is that anything I sell this year I should put 25% aside to pay taxes for 2013 (being unfortunate enough to have earned some money this year.)  If I wait until 2014, I can basically sell as much BTC as I wish without a liability as long as I am careful to avoid earning any money.  I may have understood this wrong, or not fully communicated that I might be considering raising enough money to put my even with what a pretty high income individual takes in.  It was also unclear what happens in 2015 and whether my inflow of $$$ in 2014 factors in.  We didn't look that far out.

I think you should clarify with your CPA.  I doubt he is incorrect however you may have misunderstood the limitations.   If your gains are long term (>365 days) and your taxable income (from all sources) puts you in the bottom two brackets then there would be no capital gains tax (the tax rate would be 0%).  However there is no scenario (in 2013, 2014, 2015 or future) in which you can have an unlimited capital gains (say millions of USD) and have no tax liability.

Make sure you keep accurate and detailed records of your Bitcoin trades.  The burden of proof if on you.  If the IRS audits you (generally the chance of audit rises with income) and you can't PROVE your gains are long term the IRS will reclassify them as short term and you will owe the (possibly substantial) difference in tax liability, plus penalties, interest and possibly (if they believe you did it intentionally) penalties.

Note this post should not be considered tax or legal advice and is intended as educational only.
3774  Economy / Speculation / Re: Planning your Bitcoin Withdrawals on: November 06, 2013, 07:55:01 PM
Thanks for the clarification. You don't have to pay taxes on growth in value for capital assets until you cash them out, right? So go with $0 in wages, cash out $72K in capital gains each year, and leave the rest of the $10M in bitcoins untouched?

Correct.  There is no wealth tax in the US yet (well not until you die).  This is not tax advice (always consult with a tax professional blah blah blah) but you probably could "cash out" more than $72K per year (assumming no other income source) as long as you did things to offset the income.  For example cashing out an extra $10K and donating it to charity or cashing out $10K and putting it into an IRA (traditional not Roth).   The key thing would be reducing your taxable income NOT tax credits.  A tax credit may reduce the taxes owed but if you go over the "magic line" then the capital gains rate will jump from 0% to 20% likely more than offseting the benefit of any tax credit.  An example would be taking out an extra $20K to put solar panels on your roof.  Sure you could get a $5K tax credit for that but you just bumped your taxable income into the $130K range and now you owe 20% on all of it. 

As long as your taxable income puts you in the bottom two brackets (or tax law changes as it often does) you could avoid any taxes potentially forever.
3775  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ixcoin TODO on: November 06, 2013, 07:51:38 PM
So they will start an ETF with 100K IXC valued at less than a penny each?  Given the overheads of an ETF I am sure that will be an amazing success.  Still not sure why two posts up you are complaining about no development on critical features and then in post up you are saying "no dev how convenient".

Then again I think you have deluded yourself fully.  You know what will happen and anything which contradicts that has another explanation.  In a year when IXC is still worth next to nothing, has no development, and no investment there will be some other reason why the "savior banks" are going to swoop in any day and boost the price 1000x.
3776  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon on: November 06, 2013, 07:18:41 PM
I called them just now and they confirmed that they're quiet because they're working on the tape-out and they're expecting it to be done imminently.

I think I said a lack of statement likely means they haven't completed the tapeout (something that was scheduled for early Oct).  You confirmed my assumption.  Not sure how it was doom & gloom.

Still if the original timeline was tapeout done in early Oct and it is now early Nov how likely do you think delivery in Dec is?

Hint: rocket runs (high cost limited capacity) from foundry generally take 30+ days and standard runs are more like 60+ days.  That is from the date of tape out being complete.   Now that is just raw chips, be sure to add a week or two for packaging, PCB assembly, production, testing and shipping.
3777  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: My Bitcoins stolen... on: November 06, 2013, 07:13:21 PM
that was the remaining amount of bitcoins left in my wallet. I wanted to send them to my Mt.Gox account. But in a hurry I forgot they used one address per transaction so I never received it.

That is incorrect.  Old addresses can still be used.  Many people use them everyday. MtGox adds coins received at any one of you addresses to your account balance.
3778  Economy / Speculation / Re: Planning your Bitcoin Withdrawals on: November 06, 2013, 07:06:24 PM
Once again "nice living" =/= rich.  Please try to stay on topic.  The claim made was the "rich" pay little to nothing in capital gains taxes.  That is a false statement.  Poinring out that the middle class has a low capital gains tax is "proving" to me something I never disputed.

Then we have a different definition of rich. I consider someone pulling in $70k in salary, with absolutely no debt, to be basic-rich. [

Woo hoo I am RICH and never knew it.  I need to call my mom!  Then again tvbcof post was about ULTRA WEALTHY I assume (and he confirmed with $500K tax post) he was talking about millionaires and billionaires.

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Add in millions in capital gains at 0% tax rate, and that's mega-rich.

That is incorrect.  Not sure how much simpler I can make it.  The 0% capital gains rate only applies to TOTAL INCOME (in all forms including capital gains) which would put you in the two lowest brackets.  

If you have $0 in wages and $1M in capital gains you are looking at as much as 53% short term capital gains rates.  Even long term rates are at least 20% + 3.8% (Obamacare bonus) + state rate.  IRS hasn't yet clarified on treating Bitcoins as other Forex transactions but if they do it would be >30% plus state for all tx long and short.

While you don't pay "regular income" tax rates on long term capital gains, ALL FORMS OF INCOME count towards the threshold for which bracket you will pay.  
3779  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there a way to build a wallet generator till you hit the jackpot ? on: November 06, 2013, 06:58:10 PM
I agree with you.

But for promotional purposes ...


I can't think of a worse promotion then someone buying the hype running their jackpot generator for a month or two racking up $100 in electrical cost only to find out they have been duped and they didn't even have a quadrillionth of a percent chance of making a cent.


"Bitcoin is a scam you will never win anything".
"My son downloaded that Bitcoin thing and ran up $500 in electrical bills.  We can't afford this".
"Everyone is paying a lot so someone must be getting rich off this free lottery anyone have any ideas".
"Bitcoin destroyed my computer".

3780  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there a way to build a wallet generator till you hit the jackpot ? on: November 06, 2013, 06:52:51 PM
Regardless of the odds, they are a noticeable improvement over zero.  And spinning the wheel is free, at many times per second.

No they aren't.  It is like trying to get to another star and your progress is 0% so you decide to jump.  You get too feet off the ground and call that a noticeable improvement over zero.

No.  It is not like that.

You decide to jump, hundreds or thousands of times per second.  Most times you only move 0.01 inch, and occasionally you jump 46 feet, and occasionally someone posts documentation in a forum that they jumped 273 miles.

The number of encouraging results increases over time.  And "players" would get closer to a match.  And the value of the Bitcoins keeps increasing.

We would have a much harder time promoting something with a zero chance.  Unless we were a religion, offering "eternal life".



Your computer would be burning electricity.  Do you CPU solomine Bitcoins?  That would be more cost effective.   You could make all kind of "fun" stats on how close to solving a block you got.  In the end it would just mean wasting an asinine amount of energy that has a ~0% chance of every providing a benefit.
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