[*] 8BIT [Dark Masternodes][Anon][Roadmap Stage 4]

[niki25]

Guys, don't forget that staking wallets are moving network!! As far as I can see, most people here want to cut rewards from staking wallets and keep the reward for their masternodes. It is understandable, as most people on this thread are masternode owners, and all they want is to increase their share. That's a simple greed though, nothing else (the decision to drastically increase the MN price is also dictated by greed, but I will refrain from commenting on that).

But if you cut the rewards for staking wallets, everyone will stop staking and try to convert their wallets to masternodes (or just sell their coins and get out). Thus the number of staking wallets will strongly decrease, which is bad for the network. Masternodes do not generate blocks, stakers are needed probably even more than masternodes, so we should make sure it is profitable to stake!

I may be mistaken, but please show me why staker's profit should be cut more than masternode's profit... From my point of view all those steps (increasing masternode price and cutting the reward for stakers) have just one goal - to force the smaller players out, and to concentrate profits in fewer hands of big players (the ones who post in this thread). I am not sure this will be good for the coin though, as it is narrowing down the potential 'audience'. Imagine the market where only 10-15 whales are trading with each other . I suppose it will be almost dead and driven by bots - actually just like 8BIT market prior to this takeover, with just some sudden big dumps happening from time to time.

Just my 2 cents   Everybody is free to ignore. As I told once already, I have sold the most of my mined coins on early stage (when they were worth something), so my current share in this coin is not that big, thus I can easily keep silence. But I think if things will progress in this direction, a lot of small players (including me) will leave this ship regardless of this miraculous takeover, and the fact that this coin has really bright and active community (one of the best ones I have seen, and actually this community is the only reason I am still reading this thread and still have some share in this coin).

Well, i think mn should get a higher reward than a staking wallet. If some services are going to be delivered through mn, why would a wallet staking get the same reward as the operator of the mn, that minimum is paying a vps to run it (may not be the case), and offering a service in the future. I mean if mn brings usability why would they get the same reward?.
Im not a big whale nor a big holder, i just started following the coin because i liked the idea of services for mn. And i dont want the coin just in big holder hands.
You shouldnt keep silence, i tell you im not a "big" holder and im here sharing my opinions with the rest of the community.
How much you hold is not important to give your opinion  

You can not offer supply increment as as reward for services. rewards will end up being 0% of coin supply. reward for services needs to come from consumers.

Thats it, but it can also have a fixed rate as it has now. Bringing usability to the coin is always good, paying for the services in 8bit is a good option  

a fixed rate will be brought to a 0% increment over time. its inevitable!

   I will repeat it for you:
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 | ... | +1

0(0) + 1*(1) + 1/2*(2) + 1/3*(3) + 1/4*(4) + 1/5*(5) + 1/6*(6) + | ... | + 1/∞*(∞)

Final term: 1/∞=0

this means no incentive to run services. because there is no pay-out.

master node profitability equilibrium by then is only a fail safe. theoretically the market demand can outgrow this point of equilibrium. then we are out of nodes to support service and the coin will implode.

The ONLY way is payment for services... It's directly correlated it's scalable with demand, thus fair.

I understand your point. Once the supply is bigger and bigger, the amount received by the mn daily will be less % of the cap. That brings as you said no incentive in the long run.
So having a pid service makes more incentive for the mn operators as long as its profitable. What about a rate for services related to the total amount of coins?
Will this be so aggressive in the long run?

[8-bit-Party]

Paid masternode services are one of most important goals on my roadmap.

There will be at least three ways how masternode will earn coins.

First, block rewards. With growing number of other payments this gonna be reduced. However, I wanna pay for readiness. Resources are not free.

Second, direct payments. Users will pay masternodes directly for certain service they complete. Masternode can be selected either manually or automatically (CDN model / closest location vs declared resources vs users ratings).

Third, (temporary name) core payments. Anytime so-called event will be triggered, network will pick (no voodoo nor preferred set - just MATH - algo similiar to darksend / block rewards) defined number of masternodes which will serve given event.

[blackyblack]

Some basic calculations on 8bit mining profits.
8bit generates 1 block every 64 seconds = 1350 blocks a day.
There are 200000 coins to the moment.

Given we have 1% of all coins (2000 coins) staking gives us 1% of all blocks = 13 blocks a day.
Reward per block = 0,32 so we stake 4 coins per day or 1460 coins per year or 73% ROI per year.

Pretty high level of inflation but it will be better over time.

Now let's calculate MN.

All masternodes take a reward of 0,8 per block so we have 1080 coins per day for all MNs.
If MN requires 2000 coins to start (as in the example above) we can calculate that balance will be reached with 270 MNs - each will generate 4 coins a day. It will be as profitable as staking.
Current amount of coins to start a MN = 112. Having 300 MNs we can calculate that each MN generates 1080/300 = 3,6 coins per day = 1314 coins per year. It is 1173% ROI per year. Balance will be reached at 4600 MNs.
We want to fork with 888 price for MN. Balance will be reached at 600 MNs. Let's suppose we will have 100 MNs after fork = 11 coins per day = 4000 coins per year. ROI will be 450% per year.

All those numbers looks quite scary. But they are not so bad. Buying VPS for multiple MasterNodes is hardly profitable. Big numbers will attract more nodes and profits will drop fast.
I see two problems:
1. There are not enough coins to balance MNs with staking nodes. Well they will be more profitable for longer
2. Small amount of staking nodes will lead to lower security of the network.

[8-bit-Party]

Higher MN entry cost will encourage to keep staking wallet much better than now. At this moment, with so cheap masternodes staking makes no sense.
With much more expensive MNs  situation will change.
One who has 4 masternodes ATM will either has to double his balance (by buying coins) or just switch to staking - with smaller, stable profits but without extra investment. Win - win


I think when I prove I know what am I doing here we will have to increase MN cost again.
However, at this moment we need more and more masternodes to create reliable network so unfortunately price cannot be too high.

[skidog]

Higher MN entry cost will encourage to keep staking wallet much better than now. At this moment, with so cheap masternodes staking makes no sense.
With much more expensive MNs  situation will change.
One who has 4 masternodes ATM will either has to double his balance (by buying coins) or just switch to staking - with smaller, stable profits but without extra investment. Win - win


I think when I prove I know what am I doing here we will have to increase MN cost again.
However, at this moment we need more and more masternodes to create reliable network so unfortunately price cannot be too high.

Ok, when do we vote?

[SuperClam]

My quick newbie perspective on staking and MNs.
It has only been a few months since I decided to stop ignoring crypto currencies. I've made and will continue to make newbie mistakes... (If anyone is offering an apprenticeship, please let me know).
One currency that caught my newbie eye was CLAMS. Fred Flintstone cartoon stuff right? At that time I had really no understanding of staking. Well after visiting a popular CLAMS dice game site, I was shocked to see broadcast into the chat every CLAM they staked and the total. I though to myself something like:  "How can I ever obtain enough CLAMS to stake like they do?" Answer: I could not. I had no way to be involved other than buy a large amount to obtain a reasonable return. From my perspective a "whale staker" is more wolfish.
With running a MN I can be more involved. I get to setup a VPS, learn new operating systems, yell curse words when I get an error but then get satisfaction when I finally get it to work. MN involvement brings me closer to the coin.
-soco

Fred Flintstone wasn't the intended symbolism - but we'll take it
(C.L.A.M. stands for Caritas, Libertas, Aequitas, Monetas)

The last figure I have read concerning staking CLAM is 0.2% per day; cumulative of course.
The same figures suggested 500 CLAM should stake roughly daily, given variability.

However, it should be noted that CLAM is PoWS - a bit different than conventional interest-based PoS.

[8-bit-Party]

Ok, when do we vote?

I guess we should start tommorow (Monday) @ 6PM UTC. Since there were no abuse in proposals thread we I will create simple poll here on BCT. By looking at proposals, result seems pretty predictable at this moment  but let's follow prepared path and vote.

[skidog]

Ok, when do we vote?

I guess we should start tommorow (Monday) @ 6PM UTC. Since there were no abuse in proposals thread we I will create simple poll here on BCT. By looking at proposals, result seems pretty predictable at this moment  but let's follow prepared path and vote.

Independence Day in the US . People will start coming back....Slow weekend for crypto.

[ShopemNL]

So what has been done and what will be done when?

Maybe a start is opening a new topic?

[8-bit-Party]

He also puts profit in the BTC he asks.

My slightly poor english has been already pointed here, honestly I completely do not understand your sentence.

[8-bit-Party]

EXPLANATION OF DISTRIBUTION CHARTS

http://www.8-bit.party/#distribution

First of all, distribution is analyzed using
- total supply (blockchain scan) - obvious
- richlist (blockchain scan) - TOP100 - splitted to 1-10, 11-50, 51-100 parts each showing sum of balances of described addresses
- unspent 112 8BIT inputs (blockchain scan) - MASTERNODE READY - sum of balances (not just 112 inputs) of addresses which have unspent 112 8BIT input
- Bittrex Distribution (API) - BITTREX TOP50 - sum of balances of TOP 50 accounts
- Bittrex Orderbook (API) - BITTREX ASKs - sum of ASKs (first 50 orders)
- Cryptsy Orderbook (API) - CRYPTSY ASKs - sum of ASKs
- masternode list (RPC call) - disabled since unspents are more reliable here

Amounts shown by BITTREX TOP50 and BITTREX ASKs are shared. At this moment half of coins stored on Bittrex is available on first 50 ASK orders. So BITTREX TOP50 is better factor to find out how many coins are kept on Bittrex.

Fortunately market on C-CEX is gone so we do not have to care about it anymore.

Sharp eye for detail will discover that funds kept on masternode-capable address are 57952 8BITs. And our current masternode count peak is 307 (see http://www.8-bit.party/#masternodes for details). 307 * 112 = 34384. What about those 23568? Yeah, that's true. Seems like many addresses are either not deployed on masternode or inputs are not protected against staking what can break masternode start tx. Finally, seems like many MN operators are not in hurry with collecting earnings from their nodes.

End of theory, here we go with my analysis:

• BLOCKCHAIN TOP100 vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  
  
  This is how splitted TOP100 looks compared to total coin supply. Only 26% of coins is held by TOP10 addresses. Comparing to other popular coins - this is very nice result.
  
  
• CRYPTSY ASKs vs BITTREX TOP50 vs MASTERNODE READY vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  
  
  Here were see where coins are stored. So, at least 27% coins sits on exchanges. Anoter 28% sits on masternodes or wait to be deployed on masternode. Remaining less than 46% is elsewhere. Enough to stake well.
  
  
• CRYPTSY ASKs vs BITTREX ASKs vs MASTERNODE READY vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  
  
  Same as above but with bittrex orderbook taken instead of bittrex distribution list. At this moment this factor is worse, but it may change in future so I decided to keep both comparisions.
  
  

Data are refreshed automatically, at least 6 times a day.

[skidog]

EXPLANATION OF DISTRIBUTION CHARTS

http://www.8-bit.party/#distribution

First of all, distribution is analyzed using
- total supply (blockchain scan) - obvious
- richlist (blockchain scan) - TOP100 - splitted to 1-10, 11-50, 51-100 parts each showing sum of balances of described addresses
- unspent 112 8BIT inputs (blockchain scan) - MASTERNODE READY - sum of balances (not just 112 inputs) of addresses which have unspent 112 8BIT input
- Bittrex Distribution (API) - BITTREX TOP50 - sum of balances of TOP 50 accounts
- Bittrex Orderbook (API) - BITTREX ASKs - sum of ASKs (first 50 orders)
- Cryptsy Orderbook (API) - CRYPTSY ASKs - sum of ASKs
- masternode list (RPC call) - disabled since unspents are more reliable here

Amounts shown by BITTREX TOP50 and BITTREX ASKs are shared. At this moment half of coins stored on Bittrex is available on first 50 ASK orders. So BITTREX TOP50 is better factor to find out how many coins are kept on Bittrex.

Fortunately market on C-CEX is gone so we do not have to care about it anymore.

Sharp eye for detail will discover that funds kept on masternode-capable address are 57952 8BITs. And our current masternode count peak is 307 (see http://www.8-bit.party/#masternodes for details). 307 * 112 = 34384. What about those 23568? Yeah, that's true. Seems like many addresses are either not deployed on masternode or inputs are not protected against staking what can break masternode start tx. Finally, seems like many MN operators are not in hurry with collecting earnings from their nodes.

End of theory, here we go with my analysis:

• BLOCKCHAIN TOP100 vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  
  
  This is how splitted TOP100 looks compared to total coin supply. Only 26% of coins is held by TOP10 addresses. Comparing to other popular coins - this is very nice result.
  
  
• CRYPTSY ASKs vs BITTREX TOP50 vs MASTERNODE READY vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  
  
  Here were see where coins are stored. So, at least 27% coins sits on exchanges. Anoter 28% sits on masternodes or wait to be deployed on masternode. Remaining less than 46% is elsewhere. Enough to stake well.
  
  
• CRYPTSY ASKs vs BITTREX ASKs vs MASTERNODE READY vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  
  
  Same as above but with bittrex orderbook taken instead of bittrex distribution list. At this moment this factor is worse, but it may change in future so I decided to keep both comparisions.
  
  

Data are refreshed automatically, at least 6 times a day.

My wallet is not on block explorer list not sure why...

[8-bit-Party]

Send me your address or TXID, I will check it.

[skidog]

Send me your address or TXID, I will check it.

sent. ok all but one will display. im on 2.0 wallet maybe thats it. Just wanted to see how many. Not all coins are mine. im running a wallet for a friend. He only knows how to trade. He will set up a wallet soon. He was just new to crypto.

[8-bit-Party]

So I increased limit of transactions to display... anyway staking addresses generate thousands of not so important transactions to display so they will reach this limit too... sooner or later. But at this moment - enjoy.

[8-bit-Party]

ok all but one will display. im on 2.0 wallet maybe thats it. Just wanted to see how many. Not all coins are mine. im running a wallet for a friend. He only knows how to trade. He will set up a wallet soon. He was just new to crypto.

If you want to check balance only use just-set-up service:
http://www.8-bit.party/BALANCE-YOURADDRESS
eg
http://www.8-bit.party/BALANCE-8Ldv4zhpR1tPa5B4mL2QqXeXPtt5PmUdWf

It should display balance without limitations. Let me know if it works as expected.

[skidog]

ok all but one will display. im on 2.0 wallet maybe thats it. Just wanted to see how many. Not all coins are mine. im running a wallet for a friend. He only knows how to trade. He will set up a wallet soon. He was just new to crypto.

If you want to check balance only use just-set-up service:
http://www.8-bit.party/BALANCE-YOURADDRESS
eg
http://www.8-bit.party/BALANCE-8Ldv4zhpR1tPa5B4mL2QqXeXPtt5PmUdWf

It should display balance without limitations. Let me know if it works as expected.

yep that worked. Thanks

[Greede]

EXPLANATION OF DISTRIBUTION CHARTS

http://www.8-bit.party/#distribution

First of all, distribution is analyzed using
- total supply (blockchain scan) - obvious
- richlist (blockchain scan) - TOP100 - splitted to 1-10, 11-50, 51-100 parts each showing sum of balances of described addresses
- unspent 112 8BIT inputs (blockchain scan) - MASTERNODE READY - sum of balances (not just 112 inputs) of addresses which have unspent 112 8BIT input
- Bittrex Distribution (API) - BITTREX TOP50 - sum of balances of TOP 50 accounts
- Bittrex Orderbook (API) - BITTREX ASKs - sum of ASKs (first 50 orders)
- Cryptsy Orderbook (API) - CRYPTSY ASKs - sum of ASKs
- masternode list (RPC call) - disabled since unspents are more reliable here

Amounts shown by BITTREX TOP50 and BITTREX ASKs are shared. At this moment half of coins stored on Bittrex is available on first 50 ASK orders. So BITTREX TOP50 is better factor to find out how many coins are kept on Bittrex.

Fortunately market on C-CEX is gone so we do not have to care about it anymore.

Sharp eye for detail will discover that funds kept on masternode-capable address are 57952 8BITs. And our current masternode count peak is 307 (see http://www.8-bit.party/#masternodes for details). 307 * 112 = 34384. What about those 23568? Yeah, that's true. Seems like many addresses are either not deployed on masternode or inputs are not protected against staking what can break masternode start tx. Finally, seems like many MN operators are not in hurry with collecting earnings from their nodes.

End of theory, here we go with my analysis:

• BLOCKCHAIN TOP100 vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  https://i.imgur.com/1JNpMEU.png
  
  This is how splitted TOP100 looks compared to total coin supply. Only 26% of coins is held by TOP10 addresses. Comparing to other popular coins - this is very nice result.
  
  
• CRYPTSY ASKs vs BITTREX TOP50 vs MASTERNODE READY vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  https://i.imgur.com/mk5uUMZ.png
  
  Here were see where coins are stored. So, at least 27% coins sits on exchanges. Anoter 28% sits on masternodes or wait to be deployed on masternode. Remaining less than 46% is elsewhere. Enough to stake well.
  
  
• CRYPTSY ASKs vs BITTREX ASKs vs MASTERNODE READY vs TOTAL SUPPLY
  https://i.imgur.com/cPHFHM2.png
  
  Same as above but with bittrex orderbook taken instead of bittrex distribution list. At this moment this factor is worse, but it may change in future so I decided to keep both comparisions.
  
  

Data are refreshed automatically, at least 6 times a day.

Thank you for the graphs, very insightful.

[niki25]

Thanks 8-bit-party for the graphics, it let us see how is the coin distributed.
It is not bad at all, i have seen worst distributed coins.

[8-bit-Party]

Thanks 8-bit-party for the graphics, it let us see how is the coin distributed.
It is not bad at all, i haven seen worst distributed coins.

There's online backup of previous explorer. Use yandex.ru to get it. Backup was done moth ago, on Jun, 7, this is what it says:

Code:

1	8Ldv4zhpR1tPa5B4mL2QqXeXPtt5PmUdWf    15339.00000000   9.34
2	8KbsWGJXRnd5HD9oCHzEaFKMzEd4MuLmkn    10146.68000375   6.18
3	8Wu2Nt7xYu828CYe9L22Rhw94QeDUhYJwp    7501.20790629    4.57
4	8UPSHD1ogHeaptSTPUUiNZFYuPQmfWyfkJ    5487.65704629    3.34
5	8QmMx6FQc77ygcmm7HL35xsX6Nubox4dYe    4600.03892221    2.80
6	8NFqD7JJX2PQCqaioj179xG7S7eBCp1oGB    4575.98700000    2.79
7	8Mg9XBm2vuCVvoep5sKdzAdkpVV2YCQznV    4053.95243907    2.47
8	8ZR1FLMzG1LT1rJPXGBgJTKA4MgMF7y8aF    3978.91546772    2.42
9	8WssDyRY6sMGDvEmVktV8P88SrCeikcy8w    3148.78089789    1.92
10	8TJ8JmJ43zsKT3qZm1P1np8PqBvEdKm5xm    2695.27108425    1.64

Sum: 37.47 %
Also, that day TOP100 wallets were keeping 76.28% coin supply.

One month later, today, TOP10 is 26.3% and TOP100 is 59.1%. So distribution greatly improved.