Economic Totalitarianism

[trollercoaster]

Bitcoin maximalists fear (and consequently: hate) Monero more than fiat. Why?

It's superior.

[OROBTC]

...

Monero & Bitcoin (thx, rpietila and troller for inspiring this post)

I have been trying to get a handle on two issues re the two cryptos:

1)  BTC has rather good acceptance, that is, the products you can buy using BTC are rather wide.  This is good.  

What is available using Monero?  How easy/difficult is it to buy Monero?

2)  With a little work (and about 0.6% - 1.0%), you can hide your trail a little better by mixing BTC.  

IIUC, one of the main attractions of Monero is that the anonymity is/will be better than using BTC.  TPTB_need_war has stated that Monero is not yet secure, can anyone explain (in words that even my grandma could understand) Monero and anonymity?

*   *   *

An easy to use, widely accepted and anonymous crypto would be a great thing.

[TPTB_need_war]

Cross-posted as OROBTC did too:

1)  BTC has rather good acceptance, that is, the products you can buy using BTC are rather wide.  This is good.  

What is available using Monero?  How easy/difficult is it to buy Monero?

You can spend XMR any where BTC is accepted by employing XMR.to or ShapeShift.io. You don't even need a login account for ShapeShift.io.

I believe those are derivatives of the insight I (posting as AnonyMint) made in 2013 that unit-of-account is dying in relative importance because with crypto-currency all liquid units-of-account are convertible in real-time. Rpietila reiterated that point recently in the Economic Totalitarianism thread.

2)  With a little work (and about 0.6% - 1.0%), you can hide your trail a little better by mixing BTC.

No! Those are centralized servers and you have no way to know that they are not compromised. Also research has shown they can be unmasked with traffic analysis. Google afair "Coin fog".

IIUC, one of the main attractions of Monero is that the anonymity is/will be better than using BTC.  TPTB_need_war has stated that Monero is not yet secure, can anyone explain (in words that even my grandma could understand) Monero and anonymity?

Bottom line is that Monero has the only robust onchain anonymity that I am aware of thus far. Only onchain anonymity is really trustworthy and scalable (assuming you've obscured your IP address when sending the transaction to the network or used a pigeon).

I have stated that I am not 100% convinced that the anonymity sets can't be combinatorially unmasked because as far as I know Monero allows unlimited overlapping rings. That is for further study. Also I'd like to see quantum computing resistant ring sigs, because eventually elliptic curve stuff will be cracked by a quantum computer (IBM says maybe as soon as 15 years from and the block chain is a permanent record).

We've explained the nuances upthread and else where, but that is all you really need to know. Smooth might chime in as well.

My prior post compares Monero's onchain anonymity to the new onchain anonymity proposals from Sumcoin and Blockstream's Confidential Transactions (for their side chains).

An easy to use, widely accepted and anonymous crypto would be a great thing.

It is inevitable. And probably within this year. See all the innovation pushing this direction. Just hang on.

[OROBTC]

...

And THAT (easy to use, secure crypto) will be a great innovation!  If it is more secure, that would be a nice step in bypassing Economic Totalitarianism...

I responded in the other thread that I was sorry to mis-characterize your statements on Monero, everyone already knows that I am still a beginner in my understanding of BTC.

*  *  *

Re mixing, well, yes, it is essentially impossible to know if they might be centralized or otherwise compromised.  But, mixing for me is more about BETTER security, I doubt that I could hide my tracks vs. the Big Rhino (US .gov), so I do not much care.  Just hiding the trail somewhat is "good enough" vs. other threats (mafias, etc.) against my BTC.

[TPTB_need_war]

Re mixing, well, yes, it is essentially impossible to know if they might be centralized or otherwise compromised.  But, mixing for me is more about BETTER security, I doubt that I could hide my tracks vs. the Big Rhino (US .gov), so I do not much care.  Just hiding the trail somewhat is "good enough" vs. other threats (mafias, etc.) against my BTC.

I'd worry more about the mafia running or compromising the centralized server mixers. They can plant a human at the Host, etc..

Centralized mixing is not safe. Convert to XMR, then mix onchain using the downloadable wallet (browser wallets that don't compromise your anonymity are coming but don't use the exchanges such as Polonex), then spend back to BTC using ShapeShift.io or XMR.to.

[minor-transgression]

The blockchain, bitcoin and related cryptocurrencies are now serious contenders within the space occupied
by various national currencies. Much is assumed through the lenses of fiat money and precious metals.
This text offers another view, and one away from these conceits.

1. Without Privacy there can be no Private Property.

It follows from this that the State, unless properly restrained, will attempt to expand its reach
and power by destroying privacy. Every attack on privacy is an attack on private property.
Income tax is an unjustified invasion of privacy and should be replaced by a tax on wealth.

2. A definition of Wealth, Money, and Debt.

Wealth is any commodity that can be stored and consumed, and includes any resource, including land,
that can provide a flow of commodities.
Money is a means of account and a useful end use of wealth.
Precious metals and cryptocurrencies are money.
While money may provide a means to pay tax, a tax on money is illogical.
Fiat "money" is debt. Debt is a claim on wealth at some time in the future.
Taxing debt is a form of insanity. Payment of debt is a political matter.

3. The Politics of Debt.

There are two kinds of debt, good debt and bad debt.
The good debt pays for itself.
The bad debt cannot be repaid.
Where you stand on the queue for repayment depends on your political viewpoint.

On this last axiom depends much of the future of the world.

A vast fraud has been placed on the public as a burden by the body politic.
A crash of the financial system and one worse than 2008 is highly probable
and will likely be triggered by an overcorrection within China that will
reverberate around the world.

Now is the time to prepare yourselves by understanding the mechanisms in play.
The pound in your purse should be redeemable in any bank for a pound of silver.
Similarly, a US dollar bill sould be redeemable by an ounce of silver,
in Germany gold Marks, and also for many other national currencies.

That they are not redeemable is a reflection of the current state of economies,
the mishandling and mendacity of politicians and central bankers, and the partial
interests of those whose hands are on the levers of power.

When the crash comes they will tell you, the public that all is well. That is a lie.
When things worsen they will tell you, the public that they are in control and
that normality will be restored. That too is a lie.
Things will get even worse and they will tell you the public that everything must be
shared for the common good because they know best. That also is a lie.

When it is all over they will have everything and you, the public will have
less than nothing.

Unless ...

You create a Committee for Public Safety, with responsibility and the power to protect
the public from fraud.

The choice is yours.

[TPTB_need_war]

What To Do When Your Health Insurance is Cancelled?

[TPTB_need_war]

On Secular Stagnation: A Response to Bernanke

Ben Bernanke has inaugurated his blog with a set of thoughtful observations on the determinants of real interest rates (see his post here) and the secular stagnation hypothesis that I have invoked in an effort to understand recent macroeconomic developments.  I agree with much of what Ben writes and would highlight in particular his recognition that the Fed is in a sense a follower rather than a leader with respect to real interest rates –  since they are determined by broad factors bearing on the supply and demand for capital – and his recognition that equilibrium real rates appear to have been trending downward for quite some time.

Central banks have backstopped and prevented defaults to the $250 trillion of global debt.

So there is $250 trillion in debt sloshing around the world and yet Summers refers to this as "capital".

So his "solution" is NIRP and a cashless society to prevent anyone from escaping paying negative interest rates on their wealth. And use this resource extraction to continue to backstop the $250 trillion of debt in the world. In order words, Summers thinks we are stupid enough to be a dog chasing our tail wherein the excess "capital" is money we are expropriating from ourselves to prop up "capital" that would otherwise evaporate in a contagion of defaults. And then claim this excess capital that we stole from ourselves (via NIRP) is what is causing the excessive market demand for return of capital (aka safe haven) and thus NIRP.

This is the definition of insanity. And he isn't stupid enough to believe his nonsense. He is obviously scamming us.



Obama Is Targeting Your Retirement Accounts

He buys into the problem that the people are saving too much, and is using this to entertain the idea of placing a cap on how much an individual is allowed to contribute to their retirement plan. Additionally, he is considering adding a 10% or so tax on your 401k or IRA account.

Canada to Fingerprint Foreign Travelers

Canada’s Hunt for Cash Turns Against Trading Profits in Retirement Funds

The Canadian tax man is looking at trading in retirement accounts and redefining them as businesses in order to demand taxes.

[generalizethis]

Bravo. Well said.

Unless ...

You create a Committee for Public Safety, with responsibility and the power to protect
the public from fraud.

The choice is yours.

Wouldn't a Committee of Public Safety become another power center rife for abuse and cronyism? I'm not sold on humans breaking with their long history of corruption anytime soon. Now, if you're talking about an unadulterated cryptosystem that works on consensus parameters that are agreed upon and maintained by one-voice = one-vote systems that are mathematically verified for authenticity, I'm listening.

Though my concern then comes to how is such a system built that it takes minority populations into accord. I also, in a very broad sense, wonder how such a system could be built without ending up like a nightmare out of Delueze's systems of control--sometimes I feel like the very technologies meant to expand our liberties are forcing us further and further down the maze toward more totalitarian states.  

Now there is an argument that network systems are breaking the shackles of hierarchy systems, but lets be very honest with this argument in that the best example we have of a network system, the internet, is a hodgepodge of actual freedom, freedom for appearance sake, sneaky-westernized totalitarianism, and in-your-face-what-are-gonna-do-about-it totalitarianism.

[TPTB_need_war]

Now there is an argument that network systems are breaking the shackles of hierarchy systems, but lets be very honest with this argument in that the best example we have of a network system, the internet, is a hodgepodge of actual freedom, freedom for appearance sake, sneaky-westernized totalitarianism, and in-your-face-what-are-gonna-do-about-it totalitarianism.

We must fix the internet so as to maintain the fundamental End-to-end principle. The designers forgot to build Tor into it when they designed it. And Tor has serious flaws; most importantly it can be Sybil attacked.

[generalizethis]

Now there is an argument that network systems are breaking the shackles of hierarchy systems, but lets be very honest with this argument in that the best example we have of a network system, the internet, is a hodgepodge of actual freedom, freedom for appearance sake, sneaky-westernized totalitarianism, and in-your-face-what-are-gonna-do-about-it totalitarianism.

We must fix the internet so as to maintain the fundamental End-to-end principle. The designers forget to build Tor into it when they designed it. And Tor has serious flaws; most importantly it can be Sybil attacked.

Now replace internet with decentralized currency, and TOR with Monero and you have the current state of affairs in cryptocurrency land--you could exchange p2p for zerocash and you'd have the future option in there as well. As Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

[TPTB_need_war]

Now there is an argument that network systems are breaking the shackles of hierarchy systems, but lets be very honest with this argument in that the best example we have of a network system, the internet, is a hodgepodge of actual freedom, freedom for appearance sake, sneaky-westernized totalitarianism, and in-your-face-what-are-gonna-do-about-it totalitarianism.

We must fix the internet so as to maintain the fundamental End-to-end principle. The designers forgot to build Tor into it when they designed it. And Tor has serious flaws; most importantly it can be Sybil attacked.

Now replace internet with decentralized currency, and TOR with Monero and you have the current state of affairs in cryptocurrency land--you could exchange p2p for zerocash and you'd have the future option in there as well. As Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

You've got the general theme correct, but you apparently may not be aware of the technical limitations of Monero, Tor, and Zerocash that make them unsuitable. For one, none of them scale.

[generalizethis]

Now there is an argument that network systems are breaking the shackles of hierarchy systems, but lets be very honest with this argument in that the best example we have of a network system, the internet, is a hodgepodge of actual freedom, freedom for appearance sake, sneaky-westernized totalitarianism, and in-your-face-what-are-gonna-do-about-it totalitarianism.

We must fix the internet so as to maintain the fundamental End-to-end principle. The designers forgot to build Tor into it when they designed it. And Tor has serious flaws; most importantly it can be Sybil attacked.

Now replace internet with decentralized currency, and TOR with Monero and you have the current state of affairs in cryptocurrency land--you could exchange p2p for zerocash and you'd have the future option in there as well. As Twain said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

You've got the general theme correct, but you apparently may not be aware of the technical limitations of Monero, Tor, and Zerocash that make them unsuitable. For one, none of them scale.

ATM you need to add Bitcoin to that list.

AFAIK the db has greatly reduced the scaling problem for monero as far as wallets go, and the dynamic block limit allows adaptable scaling, and later, sidechains and daughterchains should move excess data from the mainchain.

Zerocash has a vapor-ware problem to deal with before it reaches a scaleability problem--that's why i put into the future as the p2p equivalent. But maybe quantum money gets here first....

Who knows what TOR could have done if, as you suggested, the designers had built it into the internet.

[trollercoaster]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/11667638/Austrian-brothel-offers-free-sex-in-tax-protest.html

 

[TPTB_need_war]

Because I am not up-to-speed on communicating with the Monero devs (on Github or other back channels), and because my efficiency is my utmost priority and given posting in this forum is the most efficient way for me to communicate my thoughts to all that follow me, I will post this somewhat out-of-band comment here in hopes of getting a response from smooth (or if need be tacotime or fluffypony).

I do not have time to read various Monero research papers and otherwise dig to see if the following concern is already addressed.

I am concerned about a hole in the anonymity of Cryptonote ring signatures. I had sort of described this issue to smooth (who apparently relayed it to all) when I was contemplating ways that BCX might unmask the anonymity of users. I do not recall if I made this specific weakness explicit as follows.

If the actual input to a transaction (in Monero terminology this is the output of the prior transaction) is not also an input to another transaction's ring signature (and when all the other inputs to the ring are spent) or if it is also the input to a subsequent ring in which all the other inputs were outputs created after the said transaction was created, then the anonymity of the said transaction is entirely unmasked.

Combinatorial trees can be searched as well, thus even if only some of the other inputs were outputs created after the said input was created, this could cascade into unmasking the anonymity or at least reducing the anonymity set. And note the anonymity set also vulnerable to further reduction by out-of-band attacks such as IP de-obfuscation, rubber hoses, stolen private keys, hacked users, etc.

There are some tweaks that need to be made to insure the above is unlikely. Hopefully Monero is enforcing some restrictions already on which outputs can be used in ring inputs? If not, they need to get on it pronto.

P.S. for those who thought I wasn't sincerely attempting to help Monero during the BCX incident, I hope the above satisfies you. I think before I had an agreement with the Monero devs (via smooth) not to write publicly all the details of the above weakness in order to give them time to address it. I think they've had sufficient time and I want to make sure this is addressed.

[TPTB_need_war]

There is no time to waste getting uncorrupted elements of the alt media to expose Bitcoin for what it is.  I hope you share the smoking guns you've found with as many liberty minded people as you possibly can.   Wide exposure ensures your safety and the safety of your project.  Best of luck.

No solution for mankind will come from exposing Bitcoin nor any other PR efforts. The masses are going into the NWO and they will drag everything that can't be hidden down with them.

My efforts now are not about raising awareness. They are about building technology for hiding things. And I have some major insights into innovation of cryptocurrency to make it truly decentralized, scalable, and anonymous (Bitcoin lacks all 3 attributes).

If you want to survive the Dark Age coming, you will need to be proficient in these technologies for hiding your wealth and sources of income.

The independent minded people you see in Colorado will jump to comply with NWO directives for as long as they can keep their lifestyles 90% intact.

Let me show you my equation for the slow burn:

0.90 ^ n

Where n = the duration of the slow burn and ^ is the exponentiation operator.

Humans comply to keep 90%. Rinse and repeat.

[username18333]

My efforts now are not about raising awareness. They are about building technology for hiding things. And I have some major insights into innovation of cryptocurrency to make it truly decentralized, scalable, and anonymous (Bitcoin lacks all 3 attributes).

Forsooth, you bring their knife to your gunfight. (But the genius machinates thus.   )

[trollercoaster]

http://m.thelocal.at/20150610/austria-to-ban-poker-gambling-outside-of-casinos

[TPTB_need_war]

My efforts now are not about raising awareness. They are about building technology for hiding things. And I have some major insights into innovation of cryptocurrency to make it truly decentralized, scalable, and anonymous (Bitcoin lacks all 3 attributes).

Forsooth, you bring their knife to your gunfight. (But the genius machinates thus.   )

I don't know what part of decentralized Knowledge Age you don't get. Mankind is not going to back to the stone age and barter. Sorry.

[TPTB_need_war]

http://m.thelocal.at/20150610/austria-to-ban-poker-gambling-outside-of-casinos

Perfect. They are forcing gambler's to go anonymous internet and anonymous internet money.