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Author Topic: [ANN] Sia - Decentralized Storage  (Read 1340524 times)
killerstorm
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November 25, 2015, 03:37:07 PM
 #2461

When you talk about 'Bitcoin wallets', can you give explicit examples of wallets that do things well?

Electrum, for example. It's quite popular and I haven't heard people complaining neither about usability nor about security.

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The mnemonic is to provide secure encryption on the private keys, using a smaller passphrase to encrypt the mnemonic... would defeat the point?

Well, file + passphrase is a common scheme (user for ssh, pgp keys etc.), the idea is that if attacker steals a file it might be prohibitively expensive to crack the passphrase, or at least give owner time to react to breach of security.

In case with BIP-39, mnemonic is not encrypted, but instead seed is generated as PBKDF2(mnemonic, passphrase), thus seed depends both on file and user input.

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Unlocking the wallet takes a while because it currently processes the entire blockchain to scan for relevant outputs. The wallet doesn't know which public keys to look for because it doesn't keep them on disk,

OK, I'm just used to Bitcoin wallets which have access to public keys even when wallet is locked.

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Siad got stuck: what version of siad are you using, and what is the speed of your internet connection? Also, how many minutes/hours did you wait for it to get unstuck? The most recent version (0.4.Cool doesn't usually have problems getting stuck, and I think everything past 0.4.6 would usually get unstuck after a few hours.

I'm using 0.4.8. My internet connection is slow, something like 100 KB/s, but it was enough for siad to download 2 gigabytes worth of something.

I waited for many hours. I saw it connecting to different peers, downloading something, but blockchain remained at 21664. I'll try to start over, let me know if you want to look at the stuck consensus.db.

BTW sometimes it shows 0.0.0.0 and 127.0.0.1 in the list of peers, what is that?

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superresistant
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November 26, 2015, 06:54:06 PM
 #2462

 
Thanks a lot killerstorm for the feedback.

Personally I am fine with 15 or 29 word mnemonic because I just write them somewhere. I don't trust my memory to memorize 15 or 29 words.
You always need at least a backup.

I can't wait to see people using Sia as a storage.
If the devs succeed, the demand will be huge.
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November 27, 2015, 02:24:52 AM
 #2463


Thanks a lot killerstorm for the feedback.

Personally I am fine with 15 or 29 word mnemonic because I just write them somewhere. I don't trust my memory to memorize 15 or 29 words.
You always need at least a backup.

I can't wait to see people using Sia as a storage.
If the devs succeed, the demand will be huge.

Like many I am being patient with Sia, its coming and yes demand will be huge!

As far as the 29 word pass, I just copied and pasted it to a notepad file, copy and paste when unlocking wallet. Of course keep it well tucked away on your Pc and on another flash drive etc. as not to be easily found if ever hacked Smiley

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Taek
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November 27, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
 #2464

As far as the 29 word pass, I just copied and pasted it to a notepad file, copy and paste when unlocking wallet. Of course keep it well tucked away on your Pc and on another flash drive etc. as not to be easily found if ever hacked Smiley

It'd be pretty easy to scan the computer for a set of words that are used in the mneonics, keeping the file on-disk is not going to protect you against a sufficiently sophisticated hacker (a full computer scan takes a while but is not hard to write if you've already got access to the machine).
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November 28, 2015, 04:22:58 PM
 #2465

New figures..   Difficulty 7827     (http://explore.sia.tech/

Is that high or low ?
killerstorm
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November 28, 2015, 06:54:59 PM
Last edit: November 28, 2015, 07:12:10 PM by killerstorm
 #2466

On UI CPU usage, it's based on chromium. Does chrome use similar resources when running? If so, there's not much we can do about it. If not, we can take note. There are a number of things in the UI that are probably not very efficient. Ongoing, we are working to improve performance.

It turned out that it's so CPU-hungry only while siad is downloading the blockchain.CPU usage isn't a problem when it's fully synced. Perhaps siad sends lots of events during syncing or something like that...

Also, how many minutes/hours did you wait for it to get unstuck?

So I deleted consensus.db and started over. It got stuck at 21664 again, but after some time went back to 205xx, then went further to 22040 and got stuck again for many hours (I tried restarting, reconnecting, etc).

I then tried a faster connection, and it helped: after 5 minutes or so it went further and eventually got fully synced.

To me it looks like there are several blockchain forks and siad is having a problem getting the latest one on a slowish connection.

So now I tried uploading and downloading some files. It worked, but I found several issues:

1. It's hard to figure out how much storing a file costs (or have costed, after the fact). (*)
2. I noticed it generates a bunch of transactions with wildly different sums, e.g. one is 0.02 S another is 5.4 S. Is that due to different prices or size is different too?
3. No information about redundancy.
4. Contract duration is specified in blocks, which is cryptic. I figured out that inter-block time is probably 10 minutes, then 6000 blocks is ~42 days.
5. The share box, after you opened it, it's impossible to close without restarting UI.
6. i find it strange that transaction list is not automatically updated, looks kinda confusing.
7. "Estimated competitive price" fluctuates wildly (I saw 5, 750 and some really huge number) and doesn't seem to be related to estimated cost on file tab. (E.g. estimated price is 750 S when cost is 220 S).
8. No notification after download is complete.
9. Most users will probably want to store files for a duration longer than a month, will it automatically refresh files? Can it refresh without downloading them? Do they need to be re-uploaded each time?

*: I tried to calculate it from balance changes, apparently it shows I spent 64 S so far to store 3 files 33 MB of files. This implies a cost of 1939 S / GB, which is quite a bit more than 220 S / GB estimate it shows now.

But actually there was a glitch: The first time I tried to upload these files I had to abort I had to abort it and restart siad at "processing" phase due to system thrashing on low memory, and it seems like money was spent even though upload wasn't completed... But it still doesn't explain difference in price, unless it was spending money repeatedly. Transaction list looks weird, there is a lot of small transactions, but also three spending 6.84 S (three transactions with identical values but different hash and time) and two spending 8.15 S.

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MinermanNC
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November 29, 2015, 05:26:08 AM
 #2467

As far as the 29 word pass, I just copied and pasted it to a notepad file, copy and paste when unlocking wallet. Of course keep it well tucked away on your Pc and on another flash drive etc. as not to be easily found if ever hacked Smiley

It'd be pretty easy to scan the computer for a set of words that are used in the mneonics, keeping the file on-disk is not going to protect you against a sufficiently sophisticated hacker (a full computer scan takes a while but is not hard to write if you've already got access to the machine).

True, I guess its just a matter balancing the risk verses convenience  Grin But I do definitely agree it can be discovered if a determined hacker so desires.  Wink suppose it would be wise to at least lock/encrypt the folder the pass file is in....

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Madmax666
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November 30, 2015, 11:17:05 AM
 #2468

Why price is falling such like this?
Tobo
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November 30, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
 #2469

Why price is falling such like this?

Because the price is only driven by news and speculation at this time.
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November 30, 2015, 12:52:22 PM
 #2470

Why price is falling such like this?

Because the price is only driven by news and speculation at this time.

and, likely, because storj released the gui.
which is buggy like hell, but still...

mishax1
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November 30, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
 #2471

Why price is falling such like this?

Because the price is only driven by news and speculation at this time.

and, likely, because storj released the gui.
which is buggy like hell, but still...

Can't believe I bought some at 4 sat  Shocked
mitache365
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December 01, 2015, 08:57:18 AM
Last edit: December 01, 2015, 09:57:50 AM by mitache365
 #2472

Why price is falling such like this?

Because the price is only driven by news and speculation at this time.

and, likely, because storj released the gui.
which is buggy like hell, but still...

Can't believe I bought some at 4 sat  Shocked

3 sats also was a good order theese days.

Sia needs some uptrend to the 220-250k dollars marketcap.

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dedmaroz
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December 01, 2015, 10:40:10 AM
 #2473

Why is any mining pool?
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December 01, 2015, 10:48:19 AM
 #2474

Why is any mining pool?

the protocol is specific to the coin, it requires a good amount of coding to make a pool.

Taek
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December 01, 2015, 10:54:17 AM
 #2475

On UI CPU usage, it's based on chromium. Does chrome use similar resources when running? If so, there's not much we can do about it. If not, we can take note. There are a number of things in the UI that are probably not very efficient. Ongoing, we are working to improve performance.

It turned out that it's so CPU-hungry only while siad is downloading the blockchain.CPU usage isn't a problem when it's fully synced. Perhaps siad sends lots of events during syncing or something like that...

Also, how many minutes/hours did you wait for it to get unstuck?

So I deleted consensus.db and started over. It got stuck at 21664 again, but after some time went back to 205xx, then went further to 22040 and got stuck again for many hours (I tried restarting, reconnecting, etc).

I then tried a faster connection, and it helped: after 5 minutes or so it went further and eventually got fully synced.

To me it looks like there are several blockchain forks and siad is having a problem getting the latest one on a slowish connection.

So now I tried uploading and downloading some files. It worked, but I found several issues:

1. It's hard to figure out how much storing a file costs (or have costed, after the fact). (*)
2. I noticed it generates a bunch of transactions with wildly different sums, e.g. one is 0.02 S another is 5.4 S. Is that due to different prices or size is different too?
3. No information about redundancy.
4. Contract duration is specified in blocks, which is cryptic. I figured out that inter-block time is probably 10 minutes, then 6000 blocks is ~42 days.
5. The share box, after you opened it, it's impossible to close without restarting UI.
6. i find it strange that transaction list is not automatically updated, looks kinda confusing.
7. "Estimated competitive price" fluctuates wildly (I saw 5, 750 and some really huge number) and doesn't seem to be related to estimated cost on file tab. (E.g. estimated price is 750 S when cost is 220 S).
8. No notification after download is complete.
9. Most users will probably want to store files for a duration longer than a month, will it automatically refresh files? Can it refresh without downloading them? Do they need to be re-uploaded each time?

*: I tried to calculate it from balance changes, apparently it shows I spent 64 S so far to store 3 files 33 MB of files. This implies a cost of 1939 S / GB, which is quite a bit more than 220 S / GB estimate it shows now.

But actually there was a glitch: The first time I tried to upload these files I had to abort I had to abort it and restart siad at "processing" phase due to system thrashing on low memory, and it seems like money was spent even though upload wasn't completed... But it still doesn't explain difference in price, unless it was spending money repeatedly. Transaction list looks weird, there is a lot of small transactions, but also three spending 6.84 S (three transactions with identical values but different hash and time) and two spending 8.15 S.

Ok. You aren't the only one to report having troubles synchronizing to the network with a slow connection speed. We have some good ideas about what the problem is and how to fix it, but we are very intently focused on getting file contract renewals working. We definitely have network optimization on our todo list though, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit there (such as headers-first downloads, and hash-first flooding).

The transactions with different sums are due to the different prices of the hosts, some hosts are absurdly cheap, some are extremely absurdly cheap, and some are essentially free. That's why you see the flucuations. Also, sometimes you upload half of a file to one host, and then for some reason (cheaper prices, faster speeds, or other reasons) you switch hosts halfway through. Then you might end up with smaller amounts in the file contracts.

We're well aware that the renter doesn't provide enough information about the files, the redundancy, the availability, etc. We're prioritizing auto-renewing, but having greater transparency about the prices being paid is high on the todo list as well.

Right now we use 6000 blocks because it's just shy of 6 weeks. I'm not sure why I picked that amount, it seemed good to me at the time. We'll be switching to 30 days starting with the next version (2-3 weeks away we thing).

We appreciate all of the feedback you are giving us. It helps to keep us focused to have clear goals to work towards, and your feedback helps us keep sight of those goals.

Can't believe I bought some at 4 sat  Shocked

Over 300,000,000 siacoins were sold in the past day or two. I'm not sure where they came from, but it looks like someone major decided to dump at near-0 prices. I'm not sure what drove that decision, but maybe they switched over to Storj. I think they will, in the long run, regret that move. We'll see how the next 3-4 weeks play out, but we're doing some aggressive development right now.

Why is any mining pool?

the protocol is specific to the coin, it requires a good amount of coding to make a pool.

I feel pretty strongly that a mining pool should not be at the top of our priorities right now. We need a storage platform that people love using, and we've got a healthy enough hashrate for the current network size and price. Sia needs a better storage platform, so that's where we are currently directing all of our energy.
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December 01, 2015, 03:13:53 PM
 #2476

Why is any mining pool?

the protocol is specific to the coin, it requires a good amount of coding to make a pool.

and pool protocol will be same as other coins? standart stratum?
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December 01, 2015, 05:51:26 PM
 #2477

Why is any mining pool?

the protocol is specific to the coin, it requires a good amount of coding to make a pool.

and pool protocol will be same as other coins? standart stratum?

If you write it, otherwise only the person who finally comes out and does the work will decide the protocol. We have no way to know yet.

{ BitSpill }
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December 03, 2015, 02:56:41 PM
 #2478

How much space I have to share/host to upload ? What is the proportion? For example I have to host 2GB to upload 1GB , someone made this test?
Tobo
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December 03, 2015, 07:09:42 PM
 #2479


A new Bitcoinmagazine article on Sia - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/sia-launches-decentralized-blockchain-based-storage-platform-similar-to-filecoin-and-storj-1449082814
MinermanNC
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December 04, 2015, 02:29:40 AM
 #2480


Hey great read  Smiley

Don't anyone give up the faith on Sia. Patience Is a Virtue   Wink One day this will be the preferred decentralized storage option for the masses.

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