Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence

[Unacceptable]

INABA u quote my message but waffle about something unrelated to the quote..

BFL did not CREATE the CHIP!!! for the FPGA...

they imported the chip..

BFL are not manufacturers.. they are re-branders...

flame me all u like.. im not the one asking for $600+ off of people.. but just answer this..

did the FPGA chip used on the singles get designed and created by BFL. or is it a third party product..

this question is not about the shiny box, or the circuit board. just the chip...

it's a altera atratix3 EP3SL150F780 FPGA.

remember ur websites slogan 'manufacturing micro porcessors" (not verbatim)

people are not saying FPGA's are a fraud but ASICS are questionable especially when a few DIFFERENT people reversed engineered singles to find out they are third party parts. so if u cant design a FPGA then designing a ASIC from scratch is even less plausible.

and last think Sonny is ur director, not just an employee.. so stop with that lie.. its on government record....
<wait for a waffly flaming answer, and not a diplomatic professional answer>

They stated they BOUGHT the chips along time ago......................I think they bought them unbranded(no name).

I have preordered a hefty sum of BFL ASIC's & have NO fears of not getting them or not being of the estimated performance 

As for Sonny's episode,it is a bit unsettling,but I don't believe his position in the company will make any difference as to whether I can trust BFL or not.

Flame on,I got MY suit & I sent one to Inaba too 




Wear it proudly Inaba 

[Desolator]

But hey.. Why bother take some pics, show some screen shots of the software running, and other simple things. That could give competitors some magical advantage that they can use in six weeks.... Or maybe something aint right in asicville?

I know some pics and vid would allow me to beat them to market within six weeks with bitcoin asics. Right guys?

Helllooooo read my post a page or so back!  Someone posted a pic of an alleged Jalapeno and it disappeared!  It's gone!  Someone explain this...aww fuck it, I'll repost tomorrow when I get back to my laptop at the shop where I have a copy of it.

[bigasic]

OMG he's still not getting it.  for 2700 posts, you don't know much about the bitcoin community.  Here are some bitcoin laws of physics.

1. there is precedent for major, ultra long term scams like that pirateat40 investment guy.  He paid out for months and months, "proving" his operation was legit...then scammed everyone.  There have been countless scams involving people with 1000+ post counts.

2. the more you assure people you're not operating a scam, the less they believe you because the more scammy you seem

3. at this point, every single member on this forum has their BS-ometer set to maxium redline overload.  Expect hostility, investigating, dibelief, demands for proof, and extreme suspicion of proven ex-convicts of fraud related crimes, lol.

To avoid mishandling 1, 2, and 3, simply stop posting stuff that falls into #2 and just sit tight and ship the new chips eventually, lol.

I think there was a forum member that flew from Turkey and inspected BFL, he was satisfied to give them 180k and now has 6 mini rigs thats making him a lot of coin.. I just received some of my machines today.. So far, all promises made to me have been kept.. I think the forum has been warned and can make their own decisions, why this forum is so dramatic is beyond me.. It seems like there has to be some sort of drama here.. Good grief, all the info has been posted. Sonny has given his side.. Its time to move on.. This is getting ridiculous.. If you don't want to order from BFL DONT ORDER!! I understand the risks, if you dont understand the risks, then you should not be pre-ordering anything, plain and simple. With any reward worthwhile  there is risk..

Im not a shill, just a customer...



AR

[scintill]

so if u cant design a FPGA then designing a ASIC from scratch is even less plausible.

FPGAs are general purpose programmable hardware.  It would have been stupid for BFL to create FPGAs from scratch when tons of other companies do it at much higher volumes allowing for a cheaper price than BFL could do.

this question is not about the shiny box, or the circuit board. just the chip...

it's a altera atratix3 EP3SL150F780 FPGA.

remember ur websites slogan 'manufacturing micro porcessors" (not verbatim)

The slogan is "Butterfly Labs manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors for use in research, telecommunication and security applications."  I'd like to see you buy a EP3SL150F780 and mine with it out of the box.  It's just a chip, so you'll have a hard time powering it and connecting to the network, let alone programming it to mine.  BFL has taken care of all that, thus they've "manufactured a high speed encryption processor".

I'm not a BFL shill, but couldn't stand this uninformed crap -- learn something about the technologies or get out.

[Inaba]

But hey.. Why bother take some pics, show some screen shots of the software running, and other simple things. That could give competitors some magical advantage that they can use in six weeks.... Or maybe something aint right in asicville?

I know some pics and vid would allow me to beat them to market within six weeks with bitcoin asics. Right guys?

Helllooooo read my post a page or so back!  Someone posted a pic of an alleged Jalapeno and it disappeared!  It's gone!  Someone explain this...aww fuck it, I'll repost tomorrow when I get back to my laptop at the shop where I have a copy of it.

You mean this picture?  I don't know who originally posted it; it's not one of BFL's and has no connection to BFL.  Looks kind of cool, but I think it's a 'shop.



*EDIT* What kind of weird ass keyboard is that in the background?

[firefop]

Haha I'm not assuring anyone of anything anymore. I simply do not care what people think.  There is literally no way to satisfy the forums, so there is no reason to continue to try.  People are either connected to reality or they are disconnected from it (take Franky as a wonderful example) and nothing I say is going to change that.  I can present all the evidence in the world that the sky is blue and tons of people here will still scream that it's green.

This is exactly correct. There's simply no point wasting time refuting the idiocy found here. (Other than the fun of it, I guess).

I for one, will continue to buy BFL products and pre-order upgrades until I decide that It's becoming unprofitable to do so. I'm not buying touchy-feely 'kiss my ass and tell me it smells like roses' customer service. I'm buying a kickass product that does exactly what I need it to do. Sure, better customer service would be nicer - but really, as long as when I place they order and they tell me when it should ship... and I get it on time or early, I'm a happy (and repeating) customer.

Inaba, ignore the haters - post for bfl customers on _Josh and it'll all come up roses in the end.

[franky1]

so if u cant design a FPGA then designing a ASIC from scratch is even less plausible.

FPGAs are general purpose programmable hardware.  It would have been stupid for BFL to create FPGAs from scratch when tons of other companies do it at much higher volumes allowing for a cheaper price than BFL could do.

this question is not about the shiny box, or the circuit board. just the chip...

it's a altera atratix3 EP3SL150F780 FPGA.

remember ur websites slogan 'manufacturing micro porcessors" (not verbatim)

The slogan is "Butterfly Labs manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors for use in research, telecommunication and security applications."  I'd like to see you buy a EP3SL150F780 and mine with it out of the box.  It's just a chip, so you'll have a hard time powering it and connecting to the network, let alone programming it to mine.  BFL has taken care of all that, thus they've "manufactured a high speed encryption processor".

I'm not a BFL shill, but couldn't stand this uninformed crap -- learn something about the technologies or get out.

INABA in the past said they produce the chips........... thats why i wanted him to say it again now everyone knows they are altera based.

secondly saying your a processor manufacturer.. is different to being a circuit designer.. ASUS, whom make motherboards do not claim to be CPU manufacturers..... same analogy goes for BFL.. so far we have seen them only make products using third party chips. i wanted INABA to confirm this. to counter his previous posts. or to uphold his position that they did indeed make the FPGA chip.

flame me all you like but making a sub $200 circit board using third party parts to gain trust, to then get the big money. is similar practice of many ponzi, pyramid and Pirate scams.

so as i have also pre-ordered. i am frustrated to see INABA say one thing, which contradicts what is found in the real world on websites and by actually finding out information.
EG sonny actually being a director and not just an employee of BFL

[Inaba]

Dude, lay off the crack.  I have never said we manufacture FPGAs, that it patently absurd.  By all means, provide one shred of evidence I have ever uttered that.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm not sure if this applies or not in reference to the past couple dozen odd posts, but I'll quote it nonetheless. I took the liberty of removing any reference as to which company the quote applies to, but rest assure a wise man penned it. Enjoy.

XXX is the clear technical leader in the XXX and upcoming XXXX XXXing space.  As a direct result, the company has grown very quickly over the past year.  Unfortunately, its customer service, which was initially very good, did not scale fast enough, which caused customer relations and transparency to suffer. XXX is eager to improve and one of my top responsibilities in this new position is to focus on that specific issue.  I am, have always been and will always be committed to good customer service and transparency when it comes to bXXXXXX in general and the daily operations of related activities.  This is where I will be focusing much of my initial attention, specifically to take the pressure off of everyone involved so that they can focus on the other important factors, such as getting the hardware delivered on time!

~Bruno~

[franky1]

Dude, lay off the crack.  I have never said we manufacture FPGAs, that it patently absurd.  By all means, provide one shred of evidence I have ever uttered that.

i would do direct quote but the thread is locked heres the link the the message of another INABA flaming reply

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109349.msg1204369#msg1204369
(quote)
Contrary to Franky's fabrications, we do not, have not and are not rebranding anyone elses boards and selling them. It's all created by us, for us specifically.
(/quote)
so 2 flames against me.. one saying BFL have it all made specifically next your saying you didnt make it specifically as its patently absurd.

there were more but i thought a recent one would do.. trolling through ur waffle takes a while.. Wish u just stuck with the truth and straight answers.. then it would be easy to read and get facts.

to clarify, just reply with a number that best describes BFL in relation to the FPGA production
1) BFL with FPGA would be a close analogy to ATI with GPU - producing the microchips
2) BFL with FGPA would be a close analogy to Sapphire with GPU - using other parties chips, but creating boards in-house
3) BFL with FPGA do not do any circuity. we use only OEM boards (free licenced ready made) and rebrand them

if one of these numbers does not best show what BFL done with its FPGA production. explain it as previous flames contradict each other.

P.S FPGA patently impossible.. hmm whats your patent status of ASICS

[fizzisist]

Since Inaba seems unwilling to take the 30 seconds to give you an actual answer on this, franky, I will give it a try. You seem to be confusing the design and production of a "device" with the design and production of a chip. All of the FPGA mining hardware companies buy their FPGAs. Everyone but BFL buys Xilinx FPGAs, and BFL buys Altera ones. The real device they are selling is the packaged product, mainly a board with a USB interface and power regulation. This is the same thing as all the other options for custom mining hardware, until ASICs come around.

That said, I can see your point of view that something was misleading about this. They tried to intentionally hide which FPGAs they were using, and all of the product descriptions said things like "a combination of ASIC and FPGA technology," which seemed to be designed to mislead people into thinking they were buying actual ASICs, especially when their claimed specs were more than 4x better than what they ended up shipping. In the end, some clever detective work by ngzhang uncovered the truth and everyone moved on. Once the mystery was solved, it didn't make any sense why BFL was so secretive about it all along. I have a feeling that will be a continuous theme with BFL: unwarranted paranoia that all of their competitors are trying to copy them, and revealing even the slightest technical detail would ruin their business.

[franky1]

yes slight misleading especially when my first message was BFL dont make microchips, boards etc to which inaba's flame is It's all created by us, for us specifically.

dictionary definition of 'ALL'

maybe BFl should look back at the GPU industry websites. such as sapphire graphics..

not one mention of processor manufacturing.. but they do say board, card, solution...

their quote "Butterfly Labs manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors "

even more of a shame they tried linking themselves to the biotech brand name they bought up at start of 2012 which went bankrupt in 2011 and was not linked to BFL until sonny bought the title from the state for $50.

even more of a shame the butterfly labs tried so hard to pretend they started off as the biotech company they even added medical devices to their drivers page.

such a sad shame that the links dont work.. and the website has not been updated in that long, minus minor tweaks

[JMAHH]

I have a feeling that will be a continuous theme with BFL: unwarranted paranoia that all of their competitors are trying to copy them, and revealing even the slightest technical detail would ruin their business.

That'd be nice, a proper competitor to stir things up. Do we have a contender?

[fizzisist]

yes slight misleading especially when my first message was BFL dont make microchips, boards etc to which inaba's flame is It's all created by us, for us specifically.

dictionary definition of 'ALL'

maybe BFl should look back at the GPU industry websites. such as sapphire graphics..

not one mention of processor manufacturing.. but they do say board, card, solution...

their quote "Butterfly Labs manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors "

even more of a shame they tried linking themselves to the biotech brand name they bought up at start of 2012 which went bankrupt in 2011 and was not linked to BFL until sonny bought the title from the state for $50.

even more of a shame the butterfly labs tried so hard to pretend they started off as the biotech company they even added medical devices to their drivers page.

such a sad shame that the links dont work.. and the website has not been updated in that long, minus minor tweaks

It may be a translation problem, but processor does not have to mean a chip of some kind. I think of the entire device as a processor.

I think you are also confused about how they represented themselves early on. I don't remember any mention of them trying to represent themselves as having anything to do with biotech. The only medical related thing was that they listed a few "drivers" for the Bitforce Single long before they had even tested the device, and the applications were extremely incompatible with the hardware. Most glaringly was medical imaging, which I personally work with in my day job, using both GPUs and FPGAs. A processing device for this is very different than an actual medical/biotech device, which they never claimed to be produced or involved with in any way.

[the_thing]

my 0.2 btcs

[greyhawk]

Awesome. New sig. 

What's totally awesome about Bitcointalk, though, is the fact that every time I think people have demonstrated that they have reached some sort of plateau of ridiculouslness; Just when it appears that the mother fucking Mount Olympus of Batshit Crazy has been conquered, the BitcoinTalk flag planted firmly in its peak, one of you fucking idiots manages to come along and shine a bright, white hot burning spotlight of incredulity on the fact that we are only in the foothills of Crazytown and the Peak of Insanity & Entitlement still looms far above.   It's truly breathtaking in a sick sort of way. 

God damn, I love you idiots sometimes.  You give me hope that if I ever have a child and they are so retarded as to be a veritable vegetable, I can still point at the cute little veggie and say "Well, at least you're smarter than most of the people on Bitcointalk."  And it will give me comfort. 

[BadBear]

...snip: lots of indignant dodgy non-responses...

My response:  Absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Wow, I was undecided until reading this "response", Inaba. Now, my current viewpoint is that it's EXTREMELY unlikely that a legitimate business, especially a startup, seeking long-term customer relationships would respond anywhere near as angrily and childishly as you just did.

+1 

Inaba, even if you think this forum is "unbecoming of a venue for public discourse" you are still here speaking on behalf of BFL. 

Your lack of professionalism alone is enough to make me not want to ever do business with BFL. 

But add to that the news about the convicted scammer in charge... and his delay in responding to concerns... well Jesus! 
How could you ever think people would 'not' be upset, especially given the recent history of scams in Bitcoin land??? 

I agree with both these guys.

As an aside, this reminds me a lot of Pirate's posts in the "Put your money where your mouth is" thread. 

[Bitinvestor]

God damn, I love you idiots sometimes.  You give me hope that if I ever have a child and they are so retarded as to be a veritable vegetable, I can still point at the cute little veggie and say "Well, at least you're smarter than most of the people on Bitcointalk."  And it will give me comfort.  

What. a. jerk.

Sonny could not have found a better person to handle the public relations for BFL, he suits this job like shit fits in the toilet.

[bitcoinBull]

Sonny has given his side.. Its time to move on..

Where has Mr. Sonny Cris Vleisides given his side?

All we have from Inaba/BFL_Josh is this:

As for Sonny K, hopefully BFL_Sonny will address that when he posts.  As I understand it, he will be working on a response this weekend.

[SaltySpitoon]

I've got to say, I've been an avid BFL fan for a while. I had maybe a 1% doubt that they would end up screwing people over. I spent many long hours arguing with the idiots that claimed that ASICs were going to be a scam. I just figured, yeah, they over promised as always, they will be a bit less efficient then they claim, and they will make up for it somehow, like when they dropped the BFL Single price. At this point after all things considered, I'm actually at a 50/50 over whether or not I would stick up for BFL, or flame against them. I found the best thing to do is wait, and see how it all turns out. I haven't lost total trust in BFL, but I sure as hell will not be ordering until I start seeing working units ship out, and I suggest that people who feeling like yelling at BFL do the same thing. Sure they messed up big time with nondisclosure of quite a bit of majorly important things, but rather than waste their, and your own time, just wait until they are set to come out. If they come out, buy one if you want, if they don't, don't buy one.