Nefario

[Bogart]

...just curious on references if possible to the SEC knowingly investigating GLBSE, I''d be very curious to become educated on that and any other threads/information regarding SEC or government involvement other than just what Nefarios said.

http://pastie.org/4791945/wrap

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.0

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[oldschool]

There's no reason at this point to believe that users won't get their funds returned.  There might be open conflict between the shareholders, but no-one's suggested that GLBSE has insufficient funds at this point to pay its users.

I'll suggest it.

This is a by-the-book Interscamgro/Bitcoin Consultancy operation. This is how people like Taaki, Strateman, McCarthy & Co scam this community: create fake drama, multiple parties, lost databases, "waiting for X to start repaying" etc. Any person holding BTC on the Global Scam Exchange will be seeing his money back about six months after those scammed by Bitcoinica do.

It's what it is. Don't ever get involved with any of these people again.

Look, I know you love raving about how shit GLBSE is/was, but let's look at the facts here:

-The SEC was investigating Pirate.
-Through that investigation, they became interested in GLBSE, and there was some suggestion that they would take action against it, initially with regard to the pirate-pass-through operations.
-Next, Nefario pulled the listings of the PPT operations, as well as the account of the biggest issuer of PPT bonds.
-Then, Nefario shuts the site down in a great hurry, apparently under legal pressure.

Now, personally the first thought into my head when trawling through this clusterfuck is not "It must be Nefario's fault". The SEC was known to be interested in GLBSE at least a week before it went down.

So Nefario says nothing and ends up holding customer funds when he could announce ahead of time him closing. He had his own interests in mind. that is all.

I don't imagine Nef had much notice at all, I'm not sure if you understand how serious the legal issues are surrounding this. There is every chance that multiple members of the bitcoin community will be charged with securities fraud and face jail time over this. Think about it, Nefario has ID on a whole variety of people who are/were issuing unlicensed securities. Further issuers are already well known. This whole situation has the potential for very serious consequences for a number of members.

Looks like he did given his week of silence before closing. You cant say he didnt have much time. That is a cop-out.

I have not been the suspect, but I have been involved and seen several government investigations, and just the nature of the beast most white collar crimes the suspect had advance knowledge of an investigation pending.  This is not the type of thing that one must immediately start destroying evidence or shutting down servers etc.  Everything takes time, investigations have to get enough evidence to get search warrants to retrieve data etc.  Judges will not sign off on search warrants without knowing they have sufficient evidence to issue a warrant in the first place.  Investigators work normal shifts and have other caseloads.  This is not a fast process in most cases.  Everything I've seen points to the fact that he only talked to a lawyer out of fear, not investigation.  Even if he was approached, the lawyer would have advised him on a expected timeframe.

[repentance]

So Nefario says nothing and ends up holding customer funds when he could announce ahead of time him closing. He had his own interests in mind. that is all.

He's definitely acting in his own best interests.  I also suspect that he knows this forum well enough to realise that if refunds don't start flowing soon people will start filing complaints with the FSA, the SEC and other regulators making his worst nightmare come true.  His best interests in this case are served by returning funds as soon as possible.

This is not the type of thing that one must immediately start destroying evidence or shutting down servers etc.  Everything takes time, investigations have to get enough evidence to get search warrants to retrieve data etc.  Judges will not sign off on search warrants without knowing they have sufficient evidence to issue a warrant in the first place.

This is location dependent.  In some places, regulators already have the statutory authority to demand information without having to obtain a court order and there are penalties for refusing to provide that information on demand.

If it's AML he's concerned about - as stated - he won't get any advanced warning.  It's illegal in most FATF countries to tip off someone to the existence of an AML investigation.

At this point, Nefario should be taking advice only from a lawyer who specialises in financial services and securities law.  If he follows the advice of internet strangers, he won't have a leg to stand on if the shit hits the fan and regulators do go after GLBSE.

[oldschool]

...just curious on references if possible to the SEC knowingly investigating GLBSE, I''d be very curious to become educated on that and any other threads/information regarding SEC or government involvement other than just what Nefarios said.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.0

http://pastie.org/4791945/wrap

This is just an investigation on BCTST not GLBSE... This is to find out everyone who was a victim of BCTST both directly and indirectly through pass throughs, this has nothing to do with an investigation on GLBSE.

They MAY decide to investigate GLBSE after the BCTST investigation, but these investigators are already busy with another investigation.  They typically do not multitask on whitecollar crimes.

[Shadow383]

...just curious on references if possible to the SEC knowingly investigating GLBSE, I''d be very curious to become educated on that and any other threads/information regarding SEC or government involvement other than just what Nefarios said.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.0

http://pastie.org/4791945/wrap

This is just an investigation on BCTST not GLBSE... This is to find out everyone who was a victim of BCTST both directly and indirectly through pass throughs, this has nothing to do with an investigation on GLBSE.

They MAY decide to investigate GLBSE after the BCTST investigation, but these investigators are already busy with another investigation.  They typically do not multitask on whitecollar crimes.

When people phoned them they were asking questions about GLBSE as well and were clearly very interested in the exchange. I think BitcoinINV was saying that he'd been told action was likely to be taken against GLBSE.

[repentance]

They MAY decide to investigate GLBSE after the BCTST investigation, but these investigators are already busy with another investigation. They typically do not multitask on whitecollar crimes.

They do, however, information share with other, equivalent agencies, both domestically and overseas.  If they discover something which may be of relevance to another agency, they typically turn that information over to that agency for further investigation.  Most Western nations have formal information sharing agreements with each other regarding financial crimes.

[mc_lovin]

There's no reason at this point to believe that users won't get their funds returned.  There might be open conflict between the shareholders, but no-one's suggested that GLBSE has insufficient funds at this point to pay its users.

I'll suggest it.

This is a by-the-book Interscamgro/Bitcoin Consultancy operation. This is how people like Taaki, Strateman, McCarthy & Co scam this community: create fake drama, multiple parties, lost databases, "waiting for X to start repaying" etc. Any person holding BTC on the Global Scam Exchange will be seeing his money back about six months after those scammed by Bitcoinica do.

It's what it is. Don't ever get involved with any of these people again.

Look, I know you love raving about how shit GLBSE is/was, but let's look at the facts here:

-The SEC was investigating Pirate.
-Through that investigation, they became interested in GLBSE, and there was some suggestion that they would take action against it, initially with regard to the pirate-pass-through operations.
-Next, Nefario pulled the listings of the PPT operations, as well as the account of the biggest issuer of PPT bonds.
-Then, Nefario shuts the site down in a great hurry, apparently under legal pressure.

Now, personally the first thought into my head when trawling through this clusterfuck is not "It must be Nefario's fault". The SEC was known to be interested in GLBSE at least a week before it went down.

So Nefario says nothing and ends up holding customer funds when he could announce ahead of time him closing. He had his own interests in mind. that is all.

I don't imagine Nef had much notice at all, I'm not sure if you understand how serious the legal issues are surrounding this. There is every chance that multiple members of the bitcoin community will be charged with securities fraud and face jail time over this. Think about it, Nefario has ID on a whole variety of people who are/were issuing unlicensed securities. Further issuers are already well known. This whole situation has the potential for very serious consequences for a number of members.

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

[HorseRider]

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

If Nefario was and is sane, he will know that you and @oldschool's friend will call this a scam, and lawyers and police will involve. This action itself is a crime. He is not an anonymous member, the 200 bitcoin or 8000 bitcoin does not pay off such a scamming crime. So many community members will want him. So I still bet that Nefario is not scamming our Bitcoin away. the price he is going to pay is too huge for him.

I think your lawyer will help.

Have you tried to contact Nefario himself personally? Or anyone can help asking Nefario about this suspicious activity, like @Matthewh3. Why Nefario is reluctant to explain his situation publicly is quite weird, too.

[MrTeal]

The SEC is too busy watching porn and dealing with 600 million other ponzi schemes. If they show up out here Im sure they will be dealt with wolf creek style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8duRDsS8E  lol

Haha... Seriously? You think the Bitcoin community is going to "take care" of the SEC if they start investigating? If the SEC or whatever local securities agency really shows up the people they go after will end up in jail.

Our collective internet nerd rage can't track do anything to Intersango, Zhou or Pirate, and they're pretty much all well doxed public figures who are pretty average dudes who are just scammy fucks. I hardly think federal agents need to be quaking in their boots.

[galambo]

 If the SEC ... really shows up the people they go after will end up in jail.

I can promise you one thing: If the SEC does indeed "show up" they will not be sending anyone to jail.

[Garr255]

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

The phone number is correct. I know because I just gave him a call (), and he said users funds will be available ~six hours after he wakes up.

I only had a minute of credit on my Google Voice account so I wasn't able to ask anything further, and I don't really want to wake him up again after refilling my google account...

Just the fact that he picked up the phone is a really good sign.

I can promise you one thing: If the SEC does indeed "show up" they will not be sending anyone to jail.

At the end of all of this if you're still right, ask me and I'll give you a bitcoin

And man, I hope you're right.

[repentance]

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

Could you clarify which day "that day" was.  The IRC log refers to him having a lawyer's appointment on Wednesday (UK time) last week.  It's what he found out at that appointment which seems to have led him to hit the eject button.  The major thing he'd expressed concern about was the AML implications of GLBSE's activities.  None of us know whether he consulted a lawyer who specialises in financial services law or a generalist lawyer, but there certainly seems to be a relationship between that consultation with a lawyer on Wednesday and the closure of GLBSE.

[galambo]

At the end of all of this if you're still right, ask me and I'll give you a bitcoin

To quote a source who puts it plainly...

Well, times have changed. I became convinced that the SEC had gone mainstream when it was featured on the Simpsons a couple years ago. Homer unwittingly gets caught up in a company gone bad. The SEC swoops in and arrests him, and he gets sent to prison. But, unlike the depictions on this and other shows, we do not carry M-16s, chase down yachts of inside traders in SEC police boats, or parachute James Bond style into illicit corporate board meetings. It is much tamer than that. We don’t carry guns; we have no boats; we have no planes. We do not even have authority to arrest people.

http://www.sec.gov/news/speech/2006/spch102006psa.htm

[Shadow383]

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

Hmm interesting, I wasn't aware that he'd contacted anyone so close to the shutdown like that.

At the end of all of this if you're still right, ask me and I'll give you a bitcoin

To quote a source who puts it plainly...

Well, times have changed. I became convinced that the SEC had gone mainstream when it was featured on the Simpsons a couple years ago. Homer unwittingly gets caught up in a company gone bad. The SEC swoops in and arrests him, and he gets sent to prison. But, unlike the depictions on this and other shows, we do not carry M-16s, chase down yachts of inside traders in SEC police boats, or parachute James Bond style into illicit corporate board meetings. It is much tamer than that. We don’t carry guns; we have no boats; we have no planes. We do not even have authority to arrest people.

http://www.sec.gov/news/speech/2006/spch102006psa.htm

So what you're saying is, securities fraud isn't an arrestable offence?

You might want to rethink that.

The phone number is correct. I know because I just gave him a call (), and he said users funds will be available ~six hours after he wakes up.

I only had a minute of credit on my Google Voice account so I wasn't able to ask anything further, and I don't really want to wake him up again after refilling my google account...

Just the fact that he picked up the phone is a really good sign.

At 3am too.
Jesus, I wouldn't pick up the phone at 3am (if I wasn't a raging insomniac that is...)
Best of luck to yourself by the way, I was maybe 3-4 days from announcing a mining IPO myself, quite glad I didn't now if I'm honest 

[galambo]

Could you clarify which day "that day" was.  The IRC log refers to him having a lawyer's appointment on Wednesday (UK time) last week.  It's what he found out at that appointment which seems to have led him to hit the eject button.  The major thing he'd expressed concern about was the AML implications of GLBSE's activities.  None of us know whether he consulted a lawyer who specialises in financial services law or a generalist lawyer, but there certainly seems to be a relationship between that consultation with a lawyer on Wednesday and the closure of GLBSE.

He knew what the issues were even before talking to an attorney.

There are two issues here

1) Taxes, which only really becomes an issue when amounts involved become significant.
2) Money laundering, which IS an issue, and is one we're working on, it becomes more of an issue as amounts grows.

I'd imagine during the initial consultation Nefario outlined exactly what was wrong (and illegal) with his business model while his solicitor nodded solemnly, parroting back what was said whilst sizing Nefario up, and guessing how much money he had.

Unfortunately, he will be disappointed because selling phony securities to children and college students isn't a particularly profitable endeavor.

[mc_lovin]

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

Could you clarify which day "that day" was.  The IRC log refers to him having a lawyer's appointment on Wednesday (UK time) last week.  It's what he found out at that appointment which seems to have led him to hit the eject button.  The major thing he'd expressed concern about was the AML implications of GLBSE's activities.  None of us know whether he consulted a lawyer who specialises in financial services law or a generalist lawyer, but there certainly seems to be a relationship between that consultation with a lawyer on Wednesday and the closure of GLBSE.

Ah, the day of the shutdown, our IPO was only listed a few hours before it shut down, see my post for details:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.msg1254159#msg1254159

[MPOE-PR]

 If the SEC ... really shows up the people they go after will end up in jail.

I can promise you one thing: If the SEC does indeed "show up" they will not be sending anyone to jail.

He would know:

Who is in your counsel and what credentials do they hold?

As Internet Lawyers and Internet Attorneys, Random Internet Asshat Galambo Internet Law specializes in protecting small, medium and large businesses on internet law issues related to online defamation, copyright infringement, internet and online trademark infringement, software trade secret theft and other internet law issues. When you need a real internet lawyer, talk to us first then compare the rest. Chances are we have already represented a client like you on an issue like yours.

If you have an internet law question, whether it involves website agreements, affiliate marketing, selling counterfeit unregisterd (and unexempted) online securities, online contract drafting or negotiation, copyright infringement, internet defamation of character, domain name disputes, hacking or unauthorized access, trade secret theft, trademark infringement or other issue arising on the world wide web, contact us today.

Founding Partner Random Internet Asshat Galambo began practicing law yesterday when he wrote a blog post about the internet and has been specializing in internet law ever since! As an intellectual property lawyer who understands the internet, Mr. Random Internet Asshat Galambo has been featured in articles and interviews ranging from his own blog to Bitcointalk.org. Random Internet Asshat Galambo Internet Law is large enough to handle complex litigation against the largest law firms, but nimble enough to offer innovative approaches to solving legal issues.

Retard level firmly in the carmine.

[repentance]

How much notice do you think he had?  For him to message me that afternoon saying it is safe to deposit money, and then the site going offline 12-18 hours later, do you not find that a bit suspicious?

I don't think he got a takedown notice that day.  It was a scam, and I am going to discuss this with my lawyer and see what we can do about it.

edit: is this his current information, does anyone know?

http://networktools.nl/whois/glbse.com

Could you clarify which day "that day" was.  The IRC log refers to him having a lawyer's appointment on Wednesday (UK time) last week.  It's what he found out at that appointment which seems to have led him to hit the eject button.  The major thing he'd expressed concern about was the AML implications of GLBSE's activities.  None of us know whether he consulted a lawyer who specialises in financial services law or a generalist lawyer, but there certainly seems to be a relationship between that consultation with a lawyer on Wednesday and the closure of GLBSE.

Ah, the day of the shutdown, our IPO was only listed a few hours before it shut down, see my post for details:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.msg1254159#msg1254159

I assume that HKT is Hong Kong Time, so that response from Nefario was sent to you at 19:51 Wednesday UTC.

[MrTeal]

At the end of all of this if you're still right, ask me and I'll give you a bitcoin

To quote a source who puts it plainly...

Well, times have changed. I became convinced that the SEC had gone mainstream when it was featured on the Simpsons a couple years ago. Homer unwittingly gets caught up in a company gone bad. The SEC swoops in and arrests him, and he gets sent to prison. But, unlike the depictions on this and other shows, we do not carry M-16s, chase down yachts of inside traders in SEC police boats, or parachute James Bond style into illicit corporate board meetings. It is much tamer than that. We don’t carry guns; we have no boats; we have no planes. We do not even have authority to arrest people.

http://www.sec.gov/news/speech/2006/spch102006psa.htm

So your contention is that if it's not actually the SEC arresting people, it doesn't count?

From earlier this year, an SEC investigation leads to 16 year old British citizens being arrested, convicted and sentenced to a one year suspended prison sentence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17794272

[kuzetsa]

what was nefario's reasoning for closing GLBSE?

[05/10/2012 16:25:51] <nefario> what MY problem actually is
[05/10/2012 16:25:54] <nefario> 1)
[05/10/2012 16:26:00] <nefario> AML
[05/10/2012 16:26:01] <nefario> 2)
[05/10/2012 16:26:03] <nefario> tax
[05/10/2012 16:26:05] <nefario> 3)
[05/10/2012 16:26:07] <nefario> regulations
[05/10/2012 16:26:09] <nefario> in that order


[05/10/2012 16:32:52] <nefario> I don't need your approval for this, I don't have much choice

He managed to convince some of you to support him, so he must have had a good argument, what was it?

Nefario promised to start a 100% legal stock exchange after GLBSE is closed and transfer the BitcoinGlobal shares over. Clearly, this will be super successful. 

[05/10/2012 17:43:33] <shareholder 1> lets just trust nefario and gets going.

[05/10/2012 17:49:27] <shareholder 2> i truly think that if we reveal the plans to make it legit, this will turn around support in the community (at least the bright side of it) and new investments would flow if needed

[05/10/2012 18:53:41] <shareholder 2> of clourse you can do what you want, but it would be better for you and everyone to help the wind down of glbse in a clean way

Some other shareholders became resigned to GLBSE's fate and were at least somewhat convinced by Nefario's dreams of BitcoinGlobal's future.

Are those timestamps "may 10th" or "october 5th" ... around these parts, it looks like "may 10th" (and you didn't specify elsewhere in the post)