Nefario

[Dalkore]

Interesting turn of events from a personal dispute to complete shutdown.   

[Tomatocage]

Nefario said he no longer wanted to work with and just delisted me and took all my assets. No messages from him about this for at least a week.

Weren't you in for like 40K BTC?

[JoelKatz]

who did he scam?

At the very least, every GBLSE customer who relied on him to protect their ownership interest in their assets.

Has he not done this. I have not been told that my assets are no longer mine. I am just waiting for the instructions to be able to provide details to my issuers. These issuers have also been contacted and are waiting for me to provide them with my proof of ownership. I dont trust anybody else to have access to that database until this has taken place.

Right, but that wasn't the deal. That was something Nefario unilaterally imposed on you for no reason that he has explained.

At the moment, we have no verifiable information explaining why GLBSE was shut down, but it does appear to have been done on Nefario's orders. GBLSE has the only ownership records for GLBSE-listed assets.

yes, and you can understand why other people would want that taken out of Nefario's hands. the more people that have access to that database the harder it is to protect ownership of those assets.

(It's entirely possible this was no scam and Nefario's actions were compelled by others. And it's possible he will make good to the extent possible and is really under duress. But it's also possible this was a huge scam all along and many of the assets were fake, owned by Nefario secretly, and Nefario orchestrated the whole thing to walk away with thousands of bitcoins. We don't know, and we shouldn't speculate. But we can't wait forever to act either.)

both of these are a possibility and neither have been proven. but the MO here seems to be guilty until proven innocent.

Yes, exactly. The point of the scammer tag is not to indicate proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Nor is it intended to be a final resolution. It's very different from a criminal conviction.

Let me try an example: Someone asks to borrow your car to go buy groceries. They never come back with your car. Now, it's not at all clear that they committed a crime. Maybe they had an accident and are in the hospital. Maybe the car got stolen through no fault of theirs. Who knows. But others need to be warned not to trust this person with their car, at least not until we find out what happened to your car.

That's what a scammer tag does. A scammer tag is a warning that indicates failure to make good on an agreement without known justification. It can be removed or restored as changing information warrants. It's not at all analogous to a criminal conviction. It's more like a civil finding that there are very good reasons not to trust the person who bears the tag.

[HorseRider]

nefario


james



give
our
bitcoin
and
asset
back.

[k3t3r]

@JoelKatz agreed, thank you very much.

[stochastic]

I agree on pretty much all points.  Nefario needs to at the very least provide the records of ownership in GLBSE-listed securities to the issuers of said securities.  The site now reads:

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

I had a tiny amount in the exchange itself, but my ownership of securities previously listed there is more important.  We still have no idea what Nefario plans to do about that.

I, for one, am very interested to find out, just where they plan on returning the bitcoin to, and how they are determining which address they plan to use to return them to...

-- Smoov

i'm sure they will let you give them a BTC address once you send them your passport and other AML docs  

Goat, were you invited to the shareholder meeting? 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

...just curious on references if possible to the SEC knowingly investigating GLBSE, I''d be very curious to become educated on that and any other threads/information regarding SEC or government involvement other than just what Nefarios said.

http://pastie.org/4791945/wrap

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.0

Interesting letter (re. pastie). I'm now looking into this guy's background: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/philip-moustakis/53/28/995

[k3t3r]

...just curious on references if possible to the SEC knowingly investigating GLBSE, I''d be very curious to become educated on that and any other threads/information regarding SEC or government involvement other than just what Nefarios said.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100007836/bitcoin-pirate-scandal-sec-steps-in-amid-allegations-that-the-whole-thing-was-a-ponzi-scheme/

On September 24, an email was sent by an SEC investigator called Philip Moustakis to many of those who had invested in Pirate's scheme.

The email (seen by the Telegraph) indicated that the SEC is launching an investigation into Bitcoin Savings and Loan. Last night the SEC declined to comment on whether they are investigating, but confirmed that the email carried a correct email address, correct telephone numbers and seemed entirely bona fide. I've since been in contact with several investors in Bitcoin who have confirmed that they have spoken to Mr Moustakis, who is a Senior Attorney in the Enforcement Division of the SEC, with a distinguished record in investigating Ponzi schemes.

[Factory]

From GLBSE Website:

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

[senor_coconut]

From GLBSE Website:

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

[MPOE-PR]

I wonder how much someone could make from running a scam where they setup a business, then freeze all clients funds and only return them after receiving massive amounts of personal information and documentation citing AML for the reason.  What kind of percentage of people wouldn't want to lose their privacy and how many bitcoins do you think you could get from running a scam like that?

Pretty much what MtGox did.

[Bogart]

I wonder how much someone could make from running a scam where they setup a business, then freeze all clients funds and only return them after receiving massive amounts of personal information and documentation citing AML for the reason.  What kind of percentage of people wouldn't want to lose their privacy and how many bitcoins do you think you could get from running a scam like that?

Pretty much what MtGox did.

At least with them, we still had the option to send our BTC elsewhere without going through that all the paperwork BS.  I believe the paperwork only kicks in to hook up to Dwolla and the like.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Hi all,

This might be useful... so you're aware of the next "official" move.

RSS feed tracking changes (from now on) on GLBSE.com website:

http://www.changedetection.com/accountfeed.xml?feedid=472464928346072

If GLBSE's Twitter account consisted of feeds from the website, then we know exactly when the site went black--to the minute: https://twitter.com/GLBSE/status/253869482659938304

[oldschool]

I know a lot of people still believe Nef isn't a scammer and that they will get their assets and btc back.... does anyone still believe Pirateat40 is still going to pay back everyone?

[Bogart]

Just thought I'd leave this here.

I assume it does not help us, or it would have already been used.

[SebastianJu]

oldschool... what could nefario do with the shares? Exactly nothing. So he can give it back because its nothing worth to him. If he would really be a scammer then he would at least try to blackmail shareholders to pay him something to get the infos about shares.

Regarding the scammer tag... couldnt you wait a bit? I mean it can take some days when he wants to create such script. So now he has the tag and could think that all is lost. No one will invest into his new platform. That could lead to "take what i have" even when he didnt plan it from the start.

So no... giving that tag would be better later. I mean who could he still scam now? And how?

Not the best move in my opinion.

[stochastic]

oldschool... what could nefario do with the shares? Exactly nothing. So he can give it back because its nothing worth to him. If he would really be a scammer then he would at least try to blackmail shareholders to pay him something to get the infos about shares.

Regarding the scammer tag... couldnt you wait a bit? I mean it can take some days when he wants to create such script. So now he has the tag and could think that all is lost. No one will invest into his new platform. That could lead to "take what i have" even when he didnt plan it from the start.

So no... giving that tag would be better later. I mean who could he still scam now? And how?

Not the best move in my opinion.

He already has the scammer tag.

[oldschool]

oldschool... what could nefario do with the shares? Exactly nothing. So he can give it back because its nothing worth to him. If he would really be a scammer then he would at least try to blackmail shareholders to pay him something to get the infos about shares.

Regarding the scammer tag... couldnt you wait a bit? I mean it can take some days when he wants to create such script. So now he has the tag and could think that all is lost. No one will invest into his new platform. That could lead to "take what i have" even when he didnt plan it from the start.

So no... giving that tag would be better later. I mean who could he still scam now? And how?

Not the best move in my opinion.

He didn't just steal shares... he has an estimated 6000-8000btc also.  The forum administrators and staff have already decided that he is a scammer with all of the information that has been presented.

[punningclan]

I just tried to PM Nefario but I have been blocked, this is only the second time I've tried to contact him. What is the process of getting my funds and Bitcoins back?

[SebastianJu]

I know all what happened. And that he got the tag already. I only say that its still not sure that he wont give it out. But giving him the tag maybe breaks this will. I mean at least one could have wait until the time he himself said that he will refund everyone. Its breaking glass before really needed. Its still possible that he is as honest to give back the funds. Otherwise he would get problems cause he is known in person. So i critizise to give the scammer tag that fast because it has the potential to make a scammer out of him even when he didnt plan it.

But its done already... lets see how this ends...

By the way... when is later today for nefario?