Nefario

[SysRun]

from GLBSE.com website... is this recent? What does this mean exactly?

"Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today."

[jasonharty24]

Recent as in around 1 day ago yes.

[senor_coconut]

from GLBSE.com website... is this recent? What does this mean exactly?

"Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today."

Welcome sir... this is the year 2012 and GLBSE has been shut down...
The message you are seeing is outdated and no one here has yet reported having received any BTC back. I doubt we'll ever get to see that.

Oh, and there is massive trolling here too, if you care for that kind of action. Kick off your shoes and get some popcorn. Or a beer. Or a crate. Depends how much you had on GLBSE.

[oldschool]

from GLBSE.com website... is this recent? What does this mean exactly?

"Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today."

It was put up yesterday, deadline has passed.... It's meaning is the exact same thing as when Pirateat40 stated he would payback in 2 weeks... It means everyone got scammed.

[Bogart]

I hope the funds are returned; this will resolve most of my objection.

Same here.  That, and giving the database to those users/issuers who need it.

It's still a great loss, and has been handled terribly, but if he does these two things, I will feel satisfied that he has, in the end, done all that he ought to to fix the situation.

Edit: An apology would be nice too, but that may be pushing it.

[SysRun]

Has anyone received communication about this? I would think a mass emailing for AML information request would be the logical next step.

[Aahz]

I feel that we all have an obligation to report illegal activity

So, have you reported the vast majority of the bitcoin community for not paying Capital Gains tax when they cash out bitcoins for a profit, then?  Have you, in fact, reported the financial gains you've made through bitcoin?

I find both scenarios highly unlikely.

I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly, BTW.  Hence my "runaway slave" analogy.  Securities laws are bad laws that enslave people by forcing them to take actions they do not desire.  Assisting in jailing people who ignore bad laws is the immoral act, IMO.

I believe Nefario decided to blow the whistle on the operation

Again, to whom did he blow the whistle?  Where is any implication of whistle blowing on his part?

"A whistleblower is a person who tells the public or someone in authority about alleged dishonest or illegal activities (misconduct) occurring in a government department or private company or organization."
Where is there any indication that Nef did any such thing?  There's nothing about it on the GLBSE homepage and nothing about it here in th forums.

[oldschool]

Anyone else think that the reason he isn't just releasing the database and keeping all the bitcoins and running has to do with him creating a lot of fake and false IPO's, paying fake dividends from the sale of new fake IPO's and that if he did release the database to allow everyone to at least be able to get their assets back that we'd all find out he was running a bunch of mini ponzi's?

Above post was written with about 4 cups of coffee so I apologize for the run on sentences, but you get my point...

[Rarity]

I feel that we all have an obligation to report illegal activity

So, have you reported the vast majority of the bitcoin community for not paying Capital Gains tax when they cash out bitcoins for a profit, then?  

Any time I see illegal activity on this forum I report it immediately.  I personally prevented a user here named Dank from starting a business to sell illegal drug paraphernalia and just yesterday reported to the proper authorities a user here who was impersonating a federal enforcement officer.

Have you, in fact, reported the financial gains you've made through bitcoin?

Of course I have.  What possible reason would I have to avoid doing so?  I have a succesful business in the fiat world as well and I have no intention of risking everything I have built by evading taxes.  

The legal risks of evasion are not even my chief concern. Paying taxes is our patriotic duty to our nation without which we could not have built our great successes.  

I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly, BTW.  Hence my "runaway slave" analogy.  Securities laws are bad laws that enslave people by forcing them to take actions they do not desire.  Assisting in jailing people who ignore bad laws is the immoral act, IMO.

But again, we are not dealing with runaway slaves.  The law is against slavery just like it is against scamming people with unregulated exchanges.

Again, to whom did he blow the whistle?  Where is any implication of whistle blowing on his part?

The whole dispute centers on his decision to contact legal authorities and his conflict with the other members of his criminal enterprise who did not want this to happen.  The parties who had the whistle blown on them have been quite loud about how upset it made them that the whistleblowing prevented them from dumping the stock on the forum before everyone here knew it was worthless. 


 

[Bogart]

A more proper shutdown would have gone something like:

"We regret to announce that GLBSE will be closing.  It turns out that operating the exchange poses some significant legal risks that we are not comfortable with.  As of now, all trading is suspended.  Users may login to withdraw their BTC.  Issuers may do the same, and can also download their database of who owns what shares."

Would that have been so hard?

It's still not too late to do exactly that.

[Rarity]

A more proper shutdown would have gone something like:

"I regret to announce that GLBSE will be closing.  It turns out that operating the exchange poses some significant legal risks that we are not comfortable with.  As of now, all trading is suspended.  Users may login to withdraw their BTC.  Issuers may do the same, and can also download their database of who owns what shares."

Would that have been so hard?

It's still not too late to do exactly that.

Many of the listed shares are in scam companies.  It would only be a further criminal act to begin refunds without verifying Nefario is further incriminating himself.  He also can't work with an organization fractured because individuals like Theymos continued to try and scam even as legal action was imminent.  No, his best bet was to do what he did.  Blow the whistle on the whole thing and trust the matter to the authorities. 

[Aahz]

I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly, BTW.  Hence my "runaway slave" analogy.  Securities laws are bad laws that enslave people by forcing them to take actions they do not desire.  Assisting in jailing people who ignore bad laws is the immoral act, IMO.

But again, we are not dealing with runaway slaves.  The law is against slavery just like it is against scamming people with unregulated exchanges.

But the principle remains the same.  Not all laws are moral to support.

Again, to whom did he blow the whistle?  Where is any implication of whistle blowing on his part?

The whole dispute centers on his decision to contact legal authorities and his conflict with the other members of his criminal enterprise who did not want this to happen.  The parties who had the whistle blown on them have been quite loud about how upset it made them that the whistleblowing prevented them from dumping the stock on the forum before everyone here knew it was worthless. 

No, it doesn't.  It revolves around Nef closing the exchange without notice.  There is ZERO evidence that any "authorities" have been contacted by Nef.  Maybe you should reread the explanation for awarding the tag.

[Rarity]

Not all laws are moral to support.

I still agree with that exactly as much as the first ten times you tried to plant the strawman there. 

No, it doesn't.  It revolves around Nef closing the exchange without notice.  There is ZERO evidence that any "authorities" have been contacted by Nef.  Maybe you should reread the explanation for awarding the tag.

That is what they claim, however the true motive is quite obviously revenge on Nefario for blowing the whistle and preventing Theymos from dumping the stock on the forums.  Had Nefario allowed that final scam to go through, Theymos would never have complained just like he never complained before about the illegal activity they were engaged in. 

[Aahz]

Not all laws are moral to support.

I still agree with that exactly as much as the first ten times you tried to plant the strawman there. 

No, it doesn't.  It revolves around Nef closing the exchange without notice.  There is ZERO evidence that any "authorities" have been contacted by Nef.  Maybe you should reread the explanation for awarding the tag.

That is what they claim, however the true motive is quite obviously revenge on Nefario for blowing the whistle and preventing Theymos from dumping the stock on the forums.  Had Nefario allowed that final scam to go through, Theymos would never have complained just like he never complained before about the illegal activity they were engaged in. 

And neither did you.  Or did I miss the post detailing your call to the SEC?

[Rarity]

And neither did you.  Or did I miss the post detailing your call to the SEC?

I did in fact send a report on my suspicions several weeks ago when I was made aware of the questionable activities going on behind the scenes.    However, I'm not sure what that has to do with my argument in this case.  I was not a stockholder or involved in this business in any way at all.  I have no ulterior profit motives in this matter like Theymos does. 

[SebastianJu]

Someone followed the btc-trail through addresses? So we maybe can see where the money is lying and if it is moved.

[Aahz]

Nobody is morally required to honor an agreement to break the law.

Not all laws are moral to support.

I still agree with that exactly as much as the first ten times you tried to plant the strawman there. 

I suppose I'm the only one seeing the contradiction here.

Any time I see illegal activity on this forum I report it immediately.

And neither did you.  Or did I miss the post detailing your call to the SEC?

I did in fact send a report on my suspicions several weeks ago when I was made aware of the questionable activities going on behind the scenes.    However, I'm not sure what that has to do with my argument in this case.  I was not a stockholder or involved in this business in any way at all.  I have no ulterior profit motives in this matter like Theymos does. 

It's not the "behind the scenes" activity that was illegal here.  The whole site was illegal (and obviously so) from the moment it was founded.  And you failed to report it for over a year.  Far from immediately. 

Have you also reported all of the gambling threads and sites?  They're all breaking the law every time they accept money from or pay out to anyone on American soil. 

It's amazing you have time to run a business with the hundreds of phone calls you must be making each day to "the authorities" based on the actions of those on these forums. And it's a shame every one of your requests for Scammer tags for those running all of these illegal operations have been deleted.

You clearly have some grudge against Theymos.  He's not even the one who awarded the tag.  He's just the whistleblower.

[Bogart]

Someone followed the btc-trail through addresses? So we maybe can see where the money is lying and if it is moved.

What about that talk of a "paper wallet" yesterday?

What do you know about that, bitcoin.me?  Seemingly you know more than most of us.  Please share.

A paper wallet has been generated and all outstanding funds should be going there soon.

[Dalkore]

That is what they claim, however the true motive is quite obviously revenge on Nefario for blowing the whistle and preventing Theymos from dumping the stock on the forums.  Had Nefario allowed that final scam to go through, Theymos would never have complained just like he never complained before about the illegal activity they were engaged in. 

Rarity - How is it "obvious" that was the true motivation?  It is a theory but it is not obvious.   Also Nefario said this was a majority of his income so why would he kill his proverbial "golden goose" on purpose? 

From what we can find in public record, would support that he tried to go legit and got shut down OR he had something other game plan going and this was part of it. 

[SebastianJu]

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet

I dont see why this is needed. That sounds more like if one person would have to keep that paper. How can this be more secure for the customers? Its only more secure for the person having the paper wallet.

And it doesnt have an advantage for paying the btc out.

This doesnt sound good to me.