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Author Topic: ANTMINER S7 is available at bitmaintech.com with 4.86TH/s, 0.25J/GH  (Read 527635 times)
AriesIV10
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December 19, 2015, 04:03:22 PM
 #5561

Anyone look at the efficiencies of the later batches?

I was talking to my buddy who has a bunch of Batch 6, 4.05TH ones running at 4.4-4.5TH but only using 1150-1190Watts at the wall with EVGA 1300G2's.
He told me a few were even clocked at 4.2TH when he received it from factory at 625MH.

So that works out to be more efficient than all the other batches, no? I'm talking about real world @ wall usage , not the BS they usually advertise.
Maybe Batch 6's are the ones to get and Batch 7-8 is to be avoided like the plague as a LOT of them are having issues.




Batch 1 uses 1210 W to get 4.86 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2490 J/GH   
Batch 2 uses 1160 W to get 4.66 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2489 J/GH
Batch 3 uses 1210 W to get 4.86 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2490 J/GH   
Batch 4 uses 1160 W to get 4.66 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2489 J/GH
Batch 5 uses 1210 W to get 4.86 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2490 J/GH   
Batch 6 uses 1042 W to get 4.05 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2572 J/GH
Batch 7 uses 1278 W to get 5.06 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2573 J/GH     
Batch 8 uses 1293 W to get 4.73 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2734 J/GH

It is all about efficiency 24 hours a day!  

Looks to me that the Efficiency is going down.

Is that actual measured watt usage or what is claimed by Bitmain.
My B1 used 1280-1290watts at full blast (Just around 4.85TH.

Hmm, that's not that good.
My B1 is at 625 with 1230-1235 watts running 5017GH/s


1235/5017 = 0.24616     Very Nice!

I think it's nice to but the HW is at 0,01

So would that be a problem on the long run? As i expect to only run it for max a year.


I think it is all a shot in the dark.  We have no proof of anyone actually running these systems for a year, but electronics (in general) want to run cool and without errors.  We as the owners of miners want to run them as profitable as possible in the form of the highest hasharate.  With that being said, the general rule that I have seen on this is that HW should be as low as possible:  0.03 or less.  I would personally "Save&Apply" to get less than this and also adjust the Frequency to get better than this. 

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December 19, 2015, 04:12:55 PM
 #5562

2. Power Consumption: 1293W + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25C ambient temp)

3. Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH + 10% (at the wall, with APW3, 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

1293+10%=1422watt
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December 19, 2015, 04:25:07 PM
 #5563

Looks like all the hashboards on my sick s7 SEEM to work, blinking green light.
But one has zero hash.
This is running them one at a time, just disconnecting the hash cables from the controller.
If I try to run the two good ones together one hashes one has dashes.
If I try to run them all together I get a solid red light and zero hash.
So it seems to be too unstable to try and get new hash boards to try.
I will run one hashboard (1.6th) only until I have to ship for RMA.
I bit quiet in Denver on the support end.

I remember on the s5's usually just one hashboard would go and I could run the other until the replacement board came.
I wonder if you can run an s7 board from a s5 controller using the s7 chassis and fans.

I see that m's miner monitor shows both fan rpm's when running one board, but the s7 web interface only shows one fan rpm.

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December 19, 2015, 04:43:35 PM
 #5564

Anyone look at the efficiencies of the later batches?

I was talking to my buddy who has a bunch of Batch 6, 4.05TH ones running at 4.4-4.5TH but only using 1150-1190Watts at the wall with EVGA 1300G2's.
He told me a few were even clocked at 4.2TH when he received it from factory at 625MH.

So that works out to be more efficient than all the other batches, no? I'm talking about real world @ wall usage , not the BS they usually advertise.
Maybe Batch 6's are the ones to get and Batch 7-8 is to be avoided like the plague as a LOT of them are having issues.




Batch 1 uses 1210 W to get 4.86 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2490 J/GH   
Batch 2 uses 1160 W to get 4.66 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2489 J/GH
Batch 3 uses 1210 W to get 4.86 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2490 J/GH   
Batch 4 uses 1160 W to get 4.66 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2489 J/GH
Batch 5 uses 1210 W to get 4.86 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2490 J/GH   
Batch 6 uses 1042 W to get 4.05 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2572 J/GH
Batch 7 uses 1278 W to get 5.06 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2573 J/GH     
Batch 8 uses 1293 W to get 4.73 TH/s = Actual Efficiency: 0.2734 J/GH

It is all about efficiency 24 hours a day!  

Looks to me that the Efficiency is going down.

Is that actual measured watt usage or what is claimed by Bitmain.
My B1 used 1280-1290watts at full blast (Just around 4.85TH.

Hmm, that's not that good.
My B1 is at 625 with 1230-1235 watts running 5017GH/s


1235/5017 = 0.24616     Very Nice!

I think it's nice to but the HW is at 0,01

So would that be a problem on the long run? As i expect to only run it for max a year.


I think it is all a shot in the dark.  We have no proof of anyone actually running these systems for a year, but electronics (in general) want to run cool and without errors.  We as the owners of miners want to run them as profitable as possible in the form of the highest hasharate.  With that being said, the general rule that I have seen on this is that HW should be as low as possible:  0.03 or less.  I would personally "Save&Apply" to get less than this and also adjust the Frequency to get better than this. 


At this efficiency you'd be fine with 1% HW or any HW%. HW% doesnt do anything per se, its just an indication of how many share its wasting, it does not matter as in, it does not cause damage to the unit, it doesnt lose 1 HP everytime it makes an error.


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AriesIV10
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December 19, 2015, 05:33:40 PM
 #5565

It is 31F outside and I have 4 S7s running into the return duct of the furnace with the fan running full time.  It is 68F inside the house.  A little chilly, but maybe I will get another S7 to warm it up a little bit.  we have a 2 story 1300 SQFT house.  I love free Heat!  Grin

My wife likes the "Hot Little Beasts" now.  haha

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December 19, 2015, 05:36:08 PM
 #5566

There is an Imgur album here with pics from a fresh S7 B8 received very recently by my "friend".
"He" prefers not to post these under his name as "he" knows BITMAIN reads this forum and does not want to ever do anything which even may be construed as a warranty violation. I told "him" my understanding of the warranty documentation has stated since the S5+ you should check that all heat sinks are in place prior to powering the unit, but better safe than sorry so "he" will remain anonymous.

I can vouch that these are from a very recent unit and although the pictures may have some very poor lighting, even some with bad blur, they were taken in a hurry as we all know a minute lost hashing time right now is an exponential slam to BTC income.

I knew several people were asking for pictures of different items on the unit. I hope this helps, but if everything has already been discovered let me know and I will remove this post.

http://slooopy.imgur.com

Check the S7 B8 album, it is shared with the public.
(If you notice anything which shouldn't be shared please let me know via PM as I would always do the same for my mining brethren)


I have several comments regarding the S7 and our beloved bitcoin. We have a long way to go and we need all hands on deck to grow as a community. Please take a few moments to read and contemplate these subjects.

Personally my S7 units have been completely babied. I monitor voltage and current draw. I've installed 3 levels of surge and HF noise protection for the main mining room. I perform a set Preventative Maintenance schedule. I am fortunate I have only seen one out of the box failure I managed to correct myself with a new fan. I give credit where it is due and in my opinion the price has been used to take advantage of the home miner at every opportunity. It is too much considering the quality, but my miners have been running since the day each one was received without downtime except for a single unit which had a bad fan.

Price set aside and my personal opinion of the hardware is that it has been a step in the right direction when compared to the S5, but as the batches rolled out I saw an increase in reliability and a better coordination of quality control with regards to the binning of chips, default settings, and my personal opinion is Batch 7 was one of the better batches in terms of reliability. IF reliability were charted I think it would be similar to looking at an AC waveform where Batch 8 is on the downswing.

My main issues are, as others have noted you must part your hair and hold your mouth just right while performing certain mining rituals with a soldering iron draped around your neck and chicken in your pants to receive the advertised hashrates. As I said I do give credit where it is due and the issues I describe with my hashrates has not been to the point of the SP20. Many know I have long preferred Spondoolies hardware, but they did quote the SP20 as a 1.7 when it should have been a 1.3 TH miner in my opinion and marketed as a underclock / overclock powerhouse. It was the flexibility and engineering of that unit which gave it the rightfully earned reputation as the top miner of its generation and when we see a manufacturer offer such to the public again with good customer service it could easily become the new King of Hardware.

I also want to take a moment to tell everyone who is having issues with their S7s, hashboards dying, long wait times for RMAs, ignored by customer service, etc that these are the things you must remember when purchasing another miner. These things add tremendous cost to your mining venture. These are things many of us have been talking about for a long time. Bitmain has not improved in these areas. Customer service is poor. Do NOT let the fanboys ever intimidate you. There is one who still makes quite a bit of coin from bullying kids in the playground. Shut him down at every opportunity so he cannot continue publishing bad information. (If you do not know who and what I mean feel free to PM me for references, as I have been collecting threads and a truck load of other information to help stop this abuse.)

There are a select few, especially one who you should always stand against in this hardware forum. Remember, there are many others with issues who are seeing people slammed by fanboy #1 who are intimidated to the point they won't even post on this forum. This drives those people away from the best resources in the world. People like Phil, sidehack, Rich, and so many more who honestly care about helping people with hardware issues. Don't just ignore the bad seeds tell him what a pos he is and show him how he is wrong when you see it. That is the only way to stop bad actors. You must show them, and your peers they have zero clues and spout regurgitated crap and only when the newer people who are lurking see you stand up will they have the confidence to ask for help.
Some people make mistakes, I know I have, and I have publicly admitted them and thanked the person who corrected me. David (DMwardJR) recently had a conversation where he learned some things about the NEC and he thanked Prelude for showing him the information and continued to educate himself by purchasing the 2014 NEC code and studying it to make sure he continues making good decisions and helps people with accurate information. That is a huge thing we all should do. Help each other and if you are incorrect, state such so we all learn from the many days of time each of us invest in our own ways. That is how we all grow together. David knows a great deal about building a farm, and his advice should be considered. I also enjoy reading the projects by Tupsu, he goes out on a ledge and tries different things and shares such with everyone. Phil is always involved in real reviews. He shows what I view as the common miner approach to what is possible, and what is correct.

There is not a single one of us who knows it all but as a community we must show the world we can police ourselves and in no way shape, or form do we need regulations from anyone, government, or company telling us what is right / wrong. Do your part by pointing out the crap when you see it. We all do not have the knowledge Rich and Jabber do. That doesn't mean we soak up what they share and there is not a use for us. There is a job for every member of this forum who regularly uses the information.

There are many more great people here with good minds than you know. There are so many people here with the simple intent to help others. Do your part by calibrating your moral compass and giving it a voice. Never assume someone else will handle it because as a group with the numbers the good people of bitcointalk Hardware section have, there are zero reasons for the bad actors to be allowed to flourish in our midst.

I have personally seen information given which could kill someone if taken literally, because the poster does not take time to research. He states whatever he wants and when called out he uses various tactics to wiggle his way around until people simply tire of listening to it and allow it to continue.

Stop the bullying, stop new miners from being given bad information and most importantly, do something to pay it forward. Who knows, you very well may be the single person to save someone's life, literally.  

Thank You for your time.

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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December 19, 2015, 06:49:16 PM
Last edit: December 19, 2015, 07:21:54 PM by hawkfish007
 #5567


i'd rather have a stable miner with slightly lower hashrate but with minimal HW error & less heat.

Exactly this. The first thing I do with all my antminers is lower the frequency slightly - it brings down the error rate, reduces power consumption making them more efficient, they run more stable & reduces wear, prolonging their usable life span. Bitmain sell their miners tuned to the limit, but I'd rather have a slightly lower hash rate but a longer lasting & more reliable/efficient miner.

Well said, Pug!

Time to sleep everyone.  Have a good day!

btw, those who just bought b8,


you got PAWNED ! price dropped heh Huh

Not quite, many of us used $150 off coupons and got delivery late last week  Grin

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December 19, 2015, 07:33:36 PM
 #5568



Not quite, many of us used $150 off coupons and got delivery late last week  Grin
[/quote]

Nice one..............envious............how often do they give out these coupons and how many do you have to buy to be on that coupon list?

Just "Mining" my own business.
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December 19, 2015, 08:04:40 PM
 #5569

I tested my batch 7 and with BM power it took 1410W and hashed 5400 Gh/s.

Maybe batch 8 have also cooked ready I have seen 4700 gh/s at some boots.

If difficulty jumps 8-18% every time until halving it doesn't matter how many years S7 works, You should overclock it as high as You can.

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December 19, 2015, 08:26:43 PM
 #5570

I tested my batch 7 and with BM power it took 1410W and hashed 5400 Gh/s.

Maybe batch 8 have also cooked ready I have seen 4700 gh/s at some boots.

If difficulty jumps 8-18% every time until halving it doesn't matter how many years S7 works, You should overclock it as high as You can.



In many cases they don't do well overclocked longer term (slowly going down in hashing).
There are, of course, some exceptions.
What is really weird about antminers, including S7, is the fact that during reboot they sometimes latch on more favorable configuration that some other times. I had the exact same machine performing steadily at 4650 and 4830 on two different reboots at the same mhz and fan settings.
I also had mysterious and steady drops in performance on at least a couple of machines without any high errors or XXs (out of 7), which then disappear upon soft reboot.
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December 19, 2015, 10:47:25 PM
 #5571

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.




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December 19, 2015, 10:59:32 PM
 #5572

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

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December 19, 2015, 11:12:34 PM
 #5573

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

I know we have some REALLY SMART people on this forum that know circuit boards and processors.  Speaking to the REALLY SMART people: Can you make a bitcoin miner?  Cost?  Time?  How can I help?

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December 19, 2015, 11:13:25 PM
 #5574

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.

I read a lot of threads complaining about KnC and Bitfury having a near monopoly; they currently represent a small portion of the network.  It's refreshing to see someone complain about the now over 50% of the network pointed at Chinese pools. 

That being said; Bitmain and Avalon are currently the only game in town for home miners ( I haven't seen that lightbulb yet so I don't expect to see another Bitfury rig or SP40 unless BTC/USD goes over 1k.)  Therefore; focus on what pool you use.

Personally I only use pools with 12% or less of the total network hashrate.  IMO no home miner should currently be pointing their miners to Antpool.  IMO no miner should use a pool which exceeds 12%.  A diversity of pools; located in distributed regions of the world is best for the network. 

In the past when btcguild became oversized; measures were taken to reduce its size.  Please Choose your pool responsibly.
Biodom
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December 19, 2015, 11:34:31 PM
 #5575

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.

I read a lot of threads complaining about KnC and Bitfury having a near monopoly; they currently represent a small portion of the network.  It's refreshing to see someone complain about the now over 50% of the network pointed at Chinese pools. 

That being said; Bitmain and Avalon are currently the only game in town for home miners ( I haven't seen that lightbulb yet so I don't expect to see another Bitfury rig or SP40 unless BTC/USD goes over 1k.)  Therefore; focus on what pool you use.

Personally I only use pools with 12% or less of the total network hashrate.  IMO no home miner should currently be pointing their miners to Antpool.  IMO no miner should use a pool which exceeds 12%.  A diversity of pools; located in distributed regions of the world is best for the network. 

In the past when btcguild became oversized; measures were taken to reduce its size.  Please Choose your pool responsibly.

I totally agree...using Eligius, Kano's and Slush's.
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December 19, 2015, 11:45:44 PM
 #5576

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

There are none, that's why I chose to buy Bitcoin instead. I purchased S5's when they came out, I guess I want to see this big experiment work out for our children's, children. If it ends up all profit driven then it will never be what it could. Just my opinion, I do not mean to offend anyone.


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December 19, 2015, 11:58:45 PM
 #5577

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

There are none, that's why I chose to buy Bitcoin instead. I purchased S5's when they came out, I guess I want to see this big experiment work out for our children's, children. If it ends up all profit driven then it will never be what it could. Just my opinion, I do not mean to offend anyone.



technically, if you just buy btc and don't mine, you've got no vote on btc policies.
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December 20, 2015, 12:36:07 AM
 #5578

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

There are none, that's why I chose to buy Bitcoin instead. I purchased S5's when they came out, I guess I want to see this big experiment work out for our children's, children. If it ends up all profit driven then it will never be what it could. Just my opinion, I do not mean to offend anyone.



technically, if you just buy btc and don't mine, you've got no vote on btc policies.

That's how inequality gaps start. Bitcoin is controlled by all Bitcoin users. A quote from somewhere. Smiley


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December 20, 2015, 01:03:09 AM
Last edit: December 20, 2015, 05:00:56 AM by Biodom
 #5579

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

There are none, that's why I chose to buy Bitcoin instead. I purchased S5's when they came out, I guess I want to see this big experiment work out for our children's, children. If it ends up all profit driven then it will never be what it could. Just my opinion, I do not mean to offend anyone.



technically, if you just buy btc and don't mine, you've got no vote on btc policies.

That's how inequality gaps start. Bitcoin is controlled by all Bitcoin users. A quote from somewhere. Smiley



I can see how miners can vote individually (not in a pool, but solo); I don't see how users can vote on bitcoin matters.
Please, produce evidence to the contrary.
the only way i can see users voting is in a negative or positive, by using/not using the Bitcoin system as it is.
users have no vote on WHAT is the current system and on changes to it.
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December 20, 2015, 02:08:53 AM
 #5580

Heating a home with natural gas will cost less then the electricity running miners. Gas is pretty cheap. I have natural gas, so I have no idea on what electric or oil would be. In 2.5 months it will be March, winter over in the Northeast US. If everyone spent all the money they spent on buying miners from Bitmain/China and upgrading electricity in the home (S7 time frames) they would of made a profit already. Two months ago BTC was -200. When did everyone start dumping money on the S7's? For BTC to survive we need to stop feeding China. I really laugh when I see users promoting certain non-china pools and then I see them on here buying S7's like donuts. Buying Chinese made mining hardware isn't  the same as mining on one, but it does just feed the China machine that much more - in the grand scheme of things. The Bitcoin "industry" has already indicated this is a problem. Change has to start somewhere.





please point me to a new miner I can buy that is under 2k and not sold by china.

There are none, that's why I chose to buy Bitcoin instead. I purchased S5's when they came out, I guess I want to see this big experiment work out for our children's, children. If it ends up all profit driven then it will never be what it could. Just my opinion, I do not mean to offend anyone.



technically, if you just buy btc and don't mine, you've got no vote on btc policies.

That's how inequality gaps start. Bitcoin is controlled by all Bitcoin users. A quote from somewhere. Smiley



I can see how miners can vote individually (not in a pool, but solo); I don't see how users can vote on bitcoin matters.
Please, produce evidence to the contrary.
the only way i can see users voting is in a negative or positiove, by using/not using the Bitcoin system as it is.
users have no vote on WHAT is the current system and on changes to it.

This system is already in place, pool affix a note on their blocks to "vote" like in the Bitcoin XT/Bip100/101 flame war months this year. Miners point their hashrate to the pool or port that "vote" for whatever they want.


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