Null input error

[smooth]

Such as BitcoinEXpress's dram with Monero like 1.5 years back..
And on that point smooth didn't just say well, i don;t recall any of that story etc.
Nope.. he blindly went on to call me a liar etc.

You are a liar. You insisted that BCX fixed the coin, when no such thing happened (all that happened was FUD).

Every time you post about this stuff you lie more.

[Spoetnik]

Such as BitcoinEXpress's dram with Monero like 1.5 years back..
And on that point smooth didn't just say well, i don;t recall any of that story etc.
Nope.. he blindly went on to call me a liar etc.

You are a liar. You insisted that BCX fixed the coin, when no such thing happened (all that happened was FUD).

Every time you post about this stuff you lie more.

quoted so you an not edit on your lies

my edit with proof contradicts you

[smooth]

I can post the IRC log but it's long and rather pointless.

I personally would prefer to read the transcript than your one-sided summary of what transpired. Plz don't be offended. If you can't produce it, then it didn't happen.

I can confirm that the chat happened, and in a brief glance at the transcript it looked authentic. I can't confirm that it wasn't edited at all.

[Spoetnik]

I can post the IRC log but it's long and rather pointless.

I personally would prefer to read the transcript than your one-sided summary of what transpired. Plz don't be offended. If you can't produce it, then it didn't happen.

I can confirm that the chat happened, and in a brief glance at the transcript it looked authentic. I can't confirm that it wasn't edited at all.

You act like an idiot and bury your self time after time man.

What i said was FACT.

take the BCX point i brought up (mentioned in the chat log)
It went down exactly as i said.. and i will repeat
All you had to do was say "i don't recall that" etc
Instead you went on calling me a liar.. again !

I *can* simply go dig up the old Monero topic here and quote BCX if i need to.
I guess i should eh ?

[slapper]

[TPTB_need_war]

That works well when no one has any incentive to convince speculators where to give their money away.

Smooth is demanding that I post my marketing thoughts in a separate thread from my technical thoughts, breaking the conversation continuity up across multi-threads. It was not my desire to post again in this Monero Speculation thread, but it is only official Monero thread I am aware where I can post marketing thoughts that impact speculation decisions on Monero. Where on BCT is the official Monero thread for having open discussions?

"build it and they will come after 5 years" is a nice pitch to speculators, but in my line of work I had to produce a marketed product to earn an income. You worked in (programming for) finance (something you acknowledged recently in public post) thus  I assume you never had to do this. So I understand that in for-profit software the mantra is "ship it, sell it", otherwise projects go on and on and on and are never finished.

Again consistent with take a break and come back when the technology is ready for a "build it, ship it, sell it" approach.

Also this is entirely irrelevant to Monero since Monero is an open source project not a product. So off topic for the thread. Please respect the thread starter, the forum, and the community and try to stay on topic.

Open source that goes on and on and doesn't full a market thus dies. Right now you are fighting to keep the speculators fooled as that is the only market.

Why the desire to censor? Hiding something? It is not off topic. Technological and marketing analysis go hand-in-hand.

There was nothing on-topic ("Improvement Technical Discussion") in your last post, thus no need for any further response. Please stay on topic.

[TPTB_need_war]

I can post the IRC log but it's long and rather pointless.

I personally would prefer to read the transcript than your one-sided summary of what transpired. Plz don't be offended. If you can't produce it, then it didn't happen.

I edited my last comment.. i re-offer my deal with you guys

And i will see if i can dig up that IRC log and put it on paste bin or something maybe.
I didn't think anyone would want to read a looong argument between me and smooth  

EDIT:

The previously mentioned chat log with smooth from IRC 2 days ago..

http://pastebin.com/V5EUay2u

The comments from that transcript that stuck out for me are:

[02:21] <smooth> you know who else fucking donated to help support development?
00[02:21] <Spoetnik> ifi wanted to bury your crew i would eh
[02:21] <smooth> me, you idiot
[02:21] <smooth> and most of the other developers
00[02:22] <Spoetnik> all i would have to do is compare you comments from round 1 to round 2
[02:22] <smooth> out of our own fucking pockets

I believe the Monero/Aeon folks put a lot of their effort, time, and money into Monero. I sincerely feel empathy for them when reading that. I know from my own failures, how painful it is to have to admit that such enthusiasm didn't work out as planned. Being able to take the axe to the desks as I once did, walk away and start fresh is much more efficient than hanging on to the umbilical cord until the placenta has dried and shrivelled into shoe leather.

It is difficult for me to only feel empathy, because their entire overriding philosophy of dominating a sector by stealingadopting Bytecoin's source code and then bashing in anyone's head who tried to argue that the model of socialism they were adopting for a business model was deeply flawed.

I have now come to the conclusion that these are guys who are smart in coding, and had some experience at running businesses or being contractors related to computer programming but when they hatched this braindead idea of Monero they were trying some idealistic fantasy and out-of-their-competency/experience level. Perhaps some of these guys have contributed to the Linux kernel or otherwise felt they understood open source development and could apply it here. One of the key differences from Linux is that crypto currency serves primarily speculators unless one invents a design to serve actual adoption markets. Linux was competing over the long-term with proprietary OSes and so many businesses had a compelling interest to fund and join in its development.

I have tried to explain to Monero that until they get an adoption market targeted to businesses (given they have no chance in hell of marketing directly to the masses, because their historical experience makes them unqualified), then they will not be able to apply the Linux business model and instead will be in this circle-jerk business model of greater fool, zero-sum speculation community morass that causes them to feel they need to ill-treat other developers and marketers such as myself. The brow beating and censorship on forums will never inspire great innovators to join them.

All-in-all I want to emphasize I don't dislike smooth. He helped me and has been enormously empathetic to my illness. I don't wish any ill will or outcome for him. I just have concluded that he and I have different areas of expertise and experience and so much so that it makes us incompatible when evaluating the best vision for running a crypto project.

[generalizethis]

I can post the IRC log but it's long and rather pointless.

I personally would prefer to read the transcript than your one-sided summary of what transpired. Plz don't be offended. If you can't produce it, then it didn't happen.

I edited my last comment.. i re-offer my deal with you guys

And i will see if i can dig up that IRC log and put it on paste bin or something maybe.
I didn't think anyone would want to read a looong argument between me and smooth  

EDIT:

The previously mentioned chat log with smooth from IRC 2 days ago..

http://pastebin.com/V5EUay2u

Some people just don't agree with you or your methods, not sure why you have to plaster 5 threads about it.

The comments from that transcript that stuck out for me are:

[02:21] <smooth> you know who else fucking donated to help support development?
00[02:21] <Spoetnik> ifi wanted to bury your crew i would eh
[02:21] <smooth> me, you idiot
[02:21] <smooth> and most of the other developers
00[02:22] <Spoetnik> all i would have to do is compare you comments from round 1 to round 2
[02:22] <smooth> out of our own fucking pockets

I believe the Monero/Aeon folks put a lot of their effort, time, and money into Monero. I sincerely feel empathy for them when reading that. I know from my own failures, how painful it is to have to admit that such enthusiasm didn't work out as planned. Being able to take the axe to the desks as I once did, walk away and start fresh is much more efficient than hanging on to the umbilical cord until the placenta has dried and shrivelled into shoe leather.

It is difficult for me to only feel empathy, because their entire overriding philosophy of dominating a sector by stealingadopting Bytecoin's source code and then bashing in anyone's head who tried to argue that the model of socialism they were adopting for a business model was deeply flawed.

I have now come to the conclusion that these are guys who are smart in coding, and had some experience at running businesses or being contractors related to computer programming but when they hatched this braindead idea of Monero they were trying some idealistic fantasy and out-of-their-competency/experience level. Perhaps some of these guys have contributed to the Linux kernel or otherwise felt they understood open source development and could apply it here. One of the key differences from Linux is that crypto currency serves primarily speculators unless one invents a design to serve actual adoption markets. Linux was competing over the long-term with proprietary OSes and so many businesses had a compelling interest to fund and join in its development.

I have tried to explain to Monero that until they get an adoption market targeted to businesses (given they have no chance in hell of marketing directly to the masses, because their historical experience makes them unqualified), then they will not be able to apply the Linux business model and instead will be in this circle-jerk business model of greater fool, zero-sum speculation community morass that causes them to feel they need to ill-treat other developers and marketers such as myself. The brow beating and censorship on forums will never inspire great innovators to join them.

All-in-all I want to emphasize I don't dislike smooth. He helped me and has been enormously empathetic to my illness. I don't wish any ill will or outcome for him. I just have concluded that he and I have different areas of expertise and experience and so much so that it makes us incompatible when evaluating the best vision for running a crypto project.

The Monero Devs are developing the tech first, market second and are using the motto of "under promise and over deliver," whereas it seems you are working under the motto of "Over promise, say it's impossible and then move onto the next idea," which is still better than the dash motto, "Over promise and say you've got a better idea when most people figure out that you lied or can't deliver."

[TPTB_need_war]

The Monero Devs are developing the tech first, market second and are using the motto of "under promise and over deliver," whereas it seems you are working under the motto of "Over promise, say it's impossible and then move onto the next idea," which is still better than the dash motto, "Over promise and say you've got a better idea when most people figure out that you lied or can't deliver."

My point is if they have no clue where they are headed marketing wise, then the  tech is likely to be wrong. And I think that has become the case. I see a complete rewrite will be necessary to adopt Zerocash technology and to fix the block scaling, mining Tragedy of the Commons.

[cryptodromeda]

My point is if they have no clue where they are headed marketing wise.

Coming from the person who brought us knife fork and plate coin.

[TPTB_need_war]

My point is if they have no clue where they are headed marketing wise.

Coming from the person who brought us knife fork and plate coin.

Thanks for proving me correct.

Graphic arts is not marketing. Try rereading my post to understand that I pointed out Linux's marketing was the identification of a synergy with a natural need of corporations to replace proprietary operating systems. Monero's current technology does not synergize with corporations and private block chains for corporations is the only viable (legal) market I see for anonymity. Thus Monero has failed to do the most basic marketing analysis that one does before starting a project. Those who confuse marketing with promotion exemplify their total lack of knowledge of the field of marketing.

As you well know I explained in the Aeon thread that I was brainstorming and produced that image in 30 seconds as a way to exemplify what didn't work visually and why.

Monero/Aeon community only know how to attack and never to listen, learn, and be receptive to all open source input. That is why your coin projects will crash and burn.

[generalizethis]

My point is if they have no clue where they are headed marketing wise.

Coming from the person who brought us knife fork and plate coin.

Thanks for proving me correct.

Graphic arts is not marketing. Try rereading my post to understand that I pointed out Linux's marketing was the identification of a synergy with a natural need of corporations to replace proprietary operating systems. Monero's current technology does not synergize with corporations and private block chains for corporations is the only viable (legal) market I see for anonymity. Thus Monero has failed to do the most basic marketing analysis that one does before starting a project. Those who confuse marketing with promotion exemplify their total lack of knowledge of the field of marketing.

As you well know I explained in the Aeon thread that I was brainstorming and produced that image in 30 seconds as a way to exemplify what didn't work visually and why.

Monero/Aeon community only know how to attack and never to listen, learn, and be receptive to all open source input. That is why your coin projects will crash and burn.

Cryptodromeda's point may be that you miss the obvious sometimes. And design work is part of marketing.

[TPTB_need_war]

Cryptodromeda's point may be that you miss the obvious sometimes. And design work is part of marketing.

Everyone misses the obvious sometimes (and especially when rushing and not trying to be exacting), and my point is Monero folks think they know everything and don't need to listen to anyone. And they censor what they don't want to hear. And they never identified their strategic market.

Design work is one (small) aspect of implementing a marketing strategy. Marketing is about identifying markets and the necessary implementation to achieve those markets. So graphic design is very far down the food chain of marketing (except perhaps in an arena where graphical arts is the major component of the market, e.g. selling art).

[TPTB_need_war]

I've also noticed that Monero has been inserting itself in numerous Wikipedia pages. Here is an example:

Other platforms which refute Zooko's conjecture, include: Twister and Monero OpenAlias.

Monero seems to have not understood that willynilly promotion is useless[counterproductive and perceived as spam] without a marketing strategy.

[rangedriver]

Cryptodromeda's point may be that you miss the obvious sometimes. And design work is part of marketing.

My point is Monero folks think they know everything and don't need to listen to anyone. And they censor what they don't want to hear.

Sorry but that's absolute fucking bollocks.

No-one is censoring anything. If you vocalise lengthy passages about things un-related to Monero Speculation on a Monero Speculation thread, guess what's going to happen? How can you divorce yourself from the supreme objectivity to which you hold so dear and not see something so painfully obvious?

How on earth has the Monero community attacked you or your project? I have only witnessed the Monero community act in an entirely receptive and accommodating manner to both your technical suggestions and your personal predispositions.

You're really going full-troll on this.

By the way, the entire point of Monero is that anyone can contribute. If you've something to contribute then fucking contribute. No-one is stopping you from participation. Either get yourself over to GitHub and help out, or don't. Either way, stop with the BS and the borderline reverse trolling.

And it's really disappointing to see a good man whore himself out on a troll thread such as this. If you side with trolls and scam-artists then you will be considered as such.

[Days]

Cryptodromeda's point may be that you miss the obvious sometimes. And design work is part of marketing.

My point is Monero folks think they know everything and don't need to listen to anyone. And they censor what they don't want to hear.

Sorry but that's absolute fucking bollocks.

No-one is censoring anything. If you vocalise lengthy passages about things un-related to Monero Speculation on a Monero Speculation thread, guess what's going to happen? How can you divorce yourself from the supreme objectivity to which you hold so dear and not see something so painfully obvious?

How on earth has the Monero community attacked you or your project? I have only witnessed the Monero community act in an entirely receptive and accommodating manner to both your technical suggestions and your personal predispositions.

You're really going full-troll on this.

By the way, the entire point of Monero is that anyone can contribute. If you've something to contribute then fucking contribute. No-one is stopping you from participation. Either get yourself over to GitHub and help out, or don't. Either way, stop with the BS and the borderline reverse trolling.

And it's really disappointing to see a good man whore himself out on a troll thread such as this. If you side with trolls and scam-artists then you will be considered as such.

This is why Monero is a bad investment, you have the same group of people who invested in Aeon, Monero spamming all over the place in other coins ANN threads specially Dash to random threads mostly created by them like the ones Cryptodromeda or Icebreaker creates. While they don't understand how useless is when Smooth works in both coins as a developer and the main developer creates a stupid gambling site for PURE profit? and guess what a 3rd developer just wins 21000 Monero and they told me it's luck?...at least work and develop the COIN do some real marketing and stop hating on other's who are going PLACES in different continents developing and working hard for their coin that they worked HARD for.

[generalizethis]

I've also noticed that Monero has been inserting itself in numerous Wikipedia pages. Here is an example:

Other platforms which refute Zooko's conjecture, include: Twister and Monero OpenAlias.

Monero seems to have not understood that willynilly promotion is useless without a marketing strategy.

I seem to remember that FluffyPony ran down the list of thing Monero wanted achieve marketwise as a complete privacy hub (I'm sure hub is not the word he used), but the point is that private transactions and openalias are parts of a broader design. Judging its marketing based on what's transpired so far is akin to judging Netflix when they were only doing mail order--there's a plan and specific market (those looking for end-to-end privacy solutions), so you are most likely jumping the gun on any pronouncements of failure.  

[Spoetnik]

Cryptodromeda's point may be that you miss the obvious sometimes. And design work is part of marketing.

My point is Monero folks think they know everything and don't need to listen to anyone. And they censor what they don't want to hear.

Sorry but that's absolute fucking bollocks.

No-one is censoring anything.

Uhh wanna rephrase that ?

It's been 3 or 4 months since i commented on that Monero Speculation topic
and last night it was deleted by Smooth within an hour of me posting.
Again.. as any time i comment.
How ?
It's self moderated of course LOL
Their own little walled garden where they control what people see & hear..
Deceptively bumped to the top of page one 24/7

And guys creating the tech first then marketing to the masses second ?
Fuck me.. where do i start ? hahhaha
First off the tech is pure garbage.
It's a heap of stolen code with a re-mixing / mod of Anon coin crap.
Want to find the best way to turn off the public from adoption ?
Create an ANON coin ROFL

Marketing later ?
Ok Monero faggots.. you had 2 full years now to make your coin.
When exactly do you foresee making the project as intended complete ? (to start marketing)
Here is a good piece of advice Crypto idiots..
Make your coin THEN post it.
Don't create a husk, a shell of vaporware you can pass off as a hollow digital ponzi token for money $$

We get enough of this EXACT type of thing we don't need a me too project called Monero.

Guy this is what Monero is about ..a giant twister of double talk and failed retorts for years now.
The people involved with Monero are idiots across the board in every aspect.

Coders historically change code and convolute and bloat projects ruining them.
i can cite infinite examples of this.. hell i have done it first hand myself writing tons of c++

Marketing experts ?
Manipulative idiots.. the kind of guys who go to school and put out crap you see on TV commercials.
I have met guys in crypto who went to school and got educated in this field
and all they do here is spam this forum and create fake hives on Social Media like Twitter.
ALL OF THEM previously have failed miserably at adoption with the general public.

Summary:
Create digital ponzi token #3,005
Call it "insert name" add new icon.. post ANN topic on Bitcointalk.
Get it added to exchanges.. make a sketchy / unfair initial distribution.
Make grandiose proclamations about the coin and it's grand future.
Have a gimmick.. such as Anonymity.
Collect money (FIAT) for digital ponzi tokens on Internet.
Bag hold and wait for the big pay out.. while making more verbal diarrhea about the "Future"

Then when it seems like enoguh people lose interest ?
Super dump on the public as quiet as possible and move to the already pre-planned exit strategy.
Which is..
Make sure another coin is being developed by a new set of dummy accounts ready to be posted.
Then once again start collecting FIAT w/ exchange etc..

Rinse & repeat.. FOREVER !

The only thing this does is create victims and destroy Crypto.

[TPTB_need_war]

Cryptodromeda's point may be that you miss the obvious sometimes. And design work is part of marketing.

My point is Monero folks think they know everything and don't need to listen to anyone. And they censor what they don't want to hear.

Sorry but that's absolute fucking bollocks.

No-one is censoring anything. If you vocalise lengthy passages about things un-related to Monero Speculation on a Monero Speculation thread, guess what's going to happen? How can you divorce yourself from the supreme objectivity to which you hold so dear and not see something so painfully obvious?

How on earth has the Monero community attacked you or your project? I have only witnessed the Monero community act in an entirely receptive and accommodating manner to both your technical suggestions and your personal predispositions.

You're really going full-troll on this.

By the way, the entire point of Monero is that anyone can contribute. If you've something to contribute then fucking contribute. No-one is stopping you from participation. Either get yourself over to GitHub and help out, or don't. Either way, stop with the BS and the borderline reverse trolling.

And it's really disappointing to see a good man whore himself out on a troll thread such as this. If you side with trolls and scam-artists then you will be considered as such.

Your statement is an obfuscation of the reality:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219023.msg13636139#msg13636139

Monero's community are always about willynilly spin master promotional spam (and your post above is another example of it):

I've also noticed that Monero has been inserting itself in numerous Wikipedia pages. Here is an example:

Other platforms which refute Zooko's conjecture, include: Twister and Monero OpenAlias.

Monero seems to have not understood that willynilly promotion is useless[counterproductive and perceived as spam] without a marketing strategy.

[TPTB_need_war]

So what is the right approach to "marketing" monero? Scams are always going to win. Backdoored OSes are always going to be more popular. Linus didn't necessarily fight to win. He fought to fight and considered it a genuine marathon. He will win, long after naysayers don't exist in this planet. The metrics by which he "lost" in the short term are not what he fought to begin with, it's inner naiveté of the junta he chose not to exploit.

Satoshi absolutely went wrong with the economics of Bitcoin. I wish we could go back in time and argue with him and amend the economic modalities of Bitcoin.

I've also noticed that Monero has been inserting itself in numerous Wikipedia pages. Here is an example:

Other platforms which refute Zooko's conjecture, include: Twister and Monero OpenAlias.

Monero seems to have not understood that willynilly promotion is useless without a marketing strategy.

I seem to remember that FluffyPony ran down the list of thing Monero wanted achieve marketwise as a complete privacy hub (I'm sure hub is not the word he used), but the point is that private transactions and openalias are parts of a broader design. Judging its marketing based on what's transpired so far is akin to judging Netflix when they were only doing mail order--there's a plan and specific market (those looking for end-to-end privacy solutions), so you are most likely jumping the gun on any pronouncements of failure. 

I will need to stop thinking and writing about Monero because I need to work on my own project and its marketing. I know you in the Monero/Aeon community didn't originally ask me to do this, and I am the one who forcefully interjected my opinions about Monero. So thus let me try to wrap up with one more summary of what I have been suggesting upthread.

It seems to me very likely that fluffypony's market strategy is not well focused on what corporations might want from block chain privacy. I have stated my logic on Zerocash technology upthread and the reasons corporations are IMO more apt to embrace it; whereas, they currently do not embrace public block chains and I've been told that mentioning public block chains is a good way to get ignored by corporations.

I believe a privacy focused block chain should not be in any discussions whatsoever on a daily basis in a speculation forum. What corporations want to be associated with that! Not to mention how it influences what the lead developers think about and are focused on on a daily basis. I see your lead developer smooth of Aeon in these forums constantly talking about exchange market movements. Corporations would want him to be buried away in a lab accomplishing technology quietly and appearing in public to make announcements of milestones and broad technological goals and achievements.

In other words, if you want to be a long-term focused open source project, then you need to be aligned with the interests of long-term oriented corporations as Linux is. And then you need to produce the best technology for them, e.g. probably Zerocash based (contingent on your careful study).

Anonymity for the masses is nonsensical. I had to finally come to that realization myself. Corporations have a real business need to pay for privacy and public block chains promise more interoption and network effects than private databases. Also public block chains means that corporations don't fail when their partner corporation fails. In other words, just like the concept of open source in general, public block chains remove proprietary lockin failure modes. But corporations will not use public block chains if the privacy is not 100% certain. Period.

Sorry to say it probably means mostly restarting from scratch on a new code base. And it means broadening your perspective away from just crypto currency and including distributed databases and the economics thereof. For example in IoT, a parking meter needs to be paid.

It will require a deep rethink away from the delusion that you can build an anonymous coin for general use and you will all get rich over the long-term by buying low and selling high in a speculator market. I have explained upthread why an anonymous coin for general use makes no technological sense and has no markets. In short, the few individuals that would rely on it, would be risking jail time. Corporations don't risk jail time for using privacy on their data (especially if there is a viewkey when needed for regulatory oversight).

That is my gift to your community. Ignore it at your peril.