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Author Topic: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE  (Read 117027 times)
btcbug
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December 08, 2012, 12:27:04 AM
 #241

I really don't know how I feel about this either. I can kind of see the reasoning for pursuing the "legal" (violence backed) recognition in hopes of making Bitcoin seem more appealing to the majority of sheeple , but at the same time you are giving legitimacy to the very criminals who want to have people thrown in jail for suggesting money be provided by the free market. I suppose it's like anything though, that if the banks and government fuck it up like they usually do, then the peaceful and liberty minded among us will simply use a better competing alternative. I think we've arrived at the point in time where there WILL be safe alternatives and that is the main thing.
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December 08, 2012, 12:45:57 AM
 #242

reading through it all and i have come to the conclusion that the scenario is much like anyone setting up a prepaid debit card system. where the company own a corporate card and have their own personalised design cards for their clients to have their very own numbers to use that is recognised at banks and ATM's etc

if someone wanted to buy bitcoins, the FIAT funds will come out of clients card to the corporate card which in this case is bitcoin central's. who then on receipt of funds send confirmation through API callback from the PSP server would pass bitcoins from bitcoin-centrals wallet to the clients wallet on the bitcoincentral server.

the french banks are not regulating bitcoin, do not control bitcoin and pretty much do not care about bitcoin. all they care about is the fiat side. ensuring amounts and volume of FIAT do not exceed AML/KYC regulations and if they do they have enough personal information about the people to investigate, oh and not forgetting the names on the accounts are not on government watchlists.

bitcoincentral will basically just ensure amounts never exceed the limits and ensure the same house address does not open several accounts to counter the limits.

if bitcoincentral ran off.. the fiat funds that people paid into the corporate account would be reversed. but the bitcoins would be lost. as they wont be on the PSP's server.

so dont be afraid folks. the government aint moving in. the only thing that counts is if bitcoin central (quoted as 2 months) will have actual bank account numbers and debit cards.. but will bitinstant have them sooner??

we do not know what stage of negotiations bitinstant is with their PSP to know exactly who came first. but just like the ASIC wars.. its going to be busy couple of months for the who's first to get an bitcoin->ATM card to market.

bitinstant for the US market and merchants and bitcoincentral for the european market. let the mass expansion into merchant shops begin....... in 2 months  Grin

If your understanding is correct than I feel better  Smiley
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December 08, 2012, 12:50:38 AM
 #243

I can kind of see the reasoning for pursuing the "legal" (violence backed) recognition in hopes of making Bitcoin seem more appealing to the majority of sheeple , but at the same time you are giving legitimacy to the very criminals who want to have people thrown in jail for suggesting money be provided by the free market
The criminals and the cartels they operate shouldn't have the power they have, but there's nothing we can do about it. The reality of the situation is that we don't live in a voluntary society, and sometimes dealing with the state on its terms is an unfortunate necessity.

Merely using government provided (and mandated) services by itself does not constitute an endorsement of the state in the same way a prisoner does not endorse the criminal justice system merely be eating food provided by the jailer.

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December 08, 2012, 01:06:47 AM
 #244

Cripes that was real helpful.  Bitcoin is the currency of the freedom fighters the ones who want to create a better world it doesn't belong to those who want to make a buck who want to suck up to bankers of the established system making deals . . so they can join in on profits onbeknownst  to them. They belong to free spirits trying to create a new world a new financial system understanding .. that the core destruction aswell  financialy mentally and socially is caused by the current banking system that aims  on a global system hopes; expects  we  people bow down to.
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December 08, 2012, 01:19:43 AM
 #245

If you want money join this cause  . if you want freedom .
Dont .  one can survive without money .  but one cannot survive being a slave. . at least i cant  .

wel i don't know what authorities re gonna be knocking on my door soon i suggest everyone speak up . that way it could be overwhelming. And the people can have a common voice . And the people can be in charge . like a democracy .
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December 08, 2012, 01:46:06 AM
 #246

freedom fighters first need to realise that currently there is probably only 0.002% of the world population using bitcoin (7bill/150k regular btc users) and to get more people over to bitcoin their needs to be an easy way to transfer FIAT to BTC and back again. so using financial institutions services is required for market expansion of BTC to atleast get the population usage up.(step 1)

even if 0.02% of the population only uses bitcoin that is 10x the market capital and demand we have today, ill leave you to do the maths for the multiples of population vs the value/demand of BTC because of population use rise.

atleast making it easier for people to buy bitcoins and for merchants/miners to sell bitcoins to buy food and pay utility bills. makes them less reliant on accepting FIAT upfront, slowly making it easier to get to (step 2&3) the point where utility company's and grocery stores accept bitcoin

to then direct pay employees in bitcoin without conversion(step 4) and then void the use of central banks completely (step5)

but you cannot take step 1 and jump to step 5 in a day. so bitinstant and bitcoincentral are atleast getting step 1 inplace.. while still keeping the control of bitcoins within the community.

maybe one day credit mutuel MAY buy out bitcoincentrals bitcoin server and do it all inhouse. lets hope that never happens. and if it does you can simply sell out of credit mutual, and find a new community led PSP.

once BTC gets to a point of not requiring FIAT(atleast 5 steps away) due to wages being paid in BTC from businesses that accept BTC for their goods and their suppliers also accepting BTC to pay their raw materials suppliers and employee's then the financial institutions will no longer be required.

i personally dont think step 4 or 5 will ever happen in my lifetime, not unless the laws change. but atleast steps 1,2,3 will expand bitcoins value/demand to a massive level. Allowing people the choice of staying with FIAT when they visit the 7-11 store or using bitcoin.

choice is the freedom. but ruling out FIAT and only having BTC is not a freedom. because PSP/exchanges such as MTGOX can start "price setting" and becoming the 21st century central bank.

if all you want is step 5 then you might aswell ask obama(US) cameron(UK) and other counturies to just start printing the bitcoin notes instead of green backs and red backs.. and change the HSBC logo to MTGOX and the bank of america logo to bitinstant.. leaving all the laws and processes the same. as thats what step 5 will end up being.. one choice just a rebranding of the names.

i dont want a world where only BTC exists i want a world where i can go to a shop and pay them in FIAT, Silver or BTC. everyone wants to make a 'buck'. bankers, you/me, everyone... but atleast not limiting choice to just bitcoin or just fiat allows people more freedom of how they make a 'buck'. so freedom fighters stop aiming for step 5 and concentrate on steps 1.2.3,4 expanding peoples choices and freedoms..

Do not take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence and respect what is written here as both opinion and information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist
mrvision
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December 08, 2012, 01:58:53 AM
 #247

Sorry, i'm agorist, i don't really care about being 'blessed by the gov'.

So... i'm not putting my bitcoins in there and OF COURSE i am not giving them my personal information.

I hope you don't make a huge mistake dealing with 'your old friend' the gov.


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btcbug
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December 08, 2012, 02:05:03 AM
 #248

I can kind of see the reasoning for pursuing the "legal" (violence backed) recognition in hopes of making Bitcoin seem more appealing to the majority of sheeple , but at the same time you are giving legitimacy to the very criminals who want to have people thrown in jail for suggesting money be provided by the free market
The criminals and the cartels they operate shouldn't have the power they have, but there's nothing we can do about it. The reality of the situation is that we don't live in a voluntary society, and sometimes dealing with the state on its terms is an unfortunate necessity.

Merely using government provided (and mandated) services by itself does not constitute an endorsement of the state in the same way a prisoner does not endorse the criminal justice system merely be eating food provided by the jailer.

You're reasoning is correct. I suppose it's more my feelings of not wanting to ask "permission" from our evil rulers now that we finally have a technology that can allow us to operate in a new economy without having to fear the threats of violence.

It's kind of like a bunch of slaves breaking out and then running straight back because they were so brainwashed they didn't even recognize freedom.  


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December 08, 2012, 02:06:56 AM
 #249


You want freedom and a democracy? Perhaps you should take a break from posting inflammatory off topic replies in various threads and rethink what you are saying.

As far as Bitcoin being tied into the current banking system, this is progress. People think in terms of their local fiat. You won't change that overnight without using force. Bitcoin is a superior store of value and a superior currency. Allowing people to move in and out of it with ease will only strengthen Bitcoin. Revolutions don't happen over night and no matter how much you or anyone else wants it, goods and services won't be priced solely in Bitcoin any time soon and certainly not without a few baby steps along the way. Change takes time, perhaps a few generations. Infiltration is a perfectly viable strategy.

In other words, relax. Your posting is so outrageous I have to wonder if I'm responding to a troll.

Just one question. If someone hacks this 'bitcoin central', will the owners call the cops? What will happen then?

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December 08, 2012, 02:08:16 AM
 #250

you don't work do you.

actually i do and my wages are in fiat. and even more surprisingly i dont mine bitcoins. i make profit using bitcoins though in my spare time on the exchanges.

i just feel that freedom means choices. and some of the freedom fighters sentiments are lost by saying kill banks only have bitcoins.. 1 option is still 0 choices.

Just one question. If someone hacks this 'bitcoin central', will the owners call the cops? What will happen then?

well any hacks should be dealt with by the cyber crimes team of the countries authorities. but with a bank/PSP being part of the chain. they would put pressure on the authorities to ensure it gets top priority investigations happening. instead of a unknown guy named xyz in a basement having his desktop server being scrambled by a hacker, which wouldn't take priority.

Do not take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence and respect what is written here as both opinion and information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist
mrvision
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December 08, 2012, 02:11:04 AM
 #251


It's kind of like a bunch of slaves breaking out and then running straight back because they were so brainwashed they didn't even recognize freedom.  



nice

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mrvision
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December 08, 2012, 02:22:04 AM
 #252


How should I know what they would do? Better yet, why should I care?

A Bitcoin bank is a service that I don't want or need, which is precisely why I love Bitcoin. But not everyone appreciates the same things that I do. If it makes Bitcoin more accessible for those who might not otherwise use it, great. That's one step closer to me buying eggs for my breakfast with Bitcoin.

I am in a similar position than you, i don't really care... but we're wrong. We should care.

If something happens they will use the goverment aka call the cops, that's why they wanted to be licensed, and more over, they are obligated.

So they call the cops, what happen next? Newspapers with bad press... what happens next? Regulations...

It's just a path that i don't like.

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December 08, 2012, 02:24:12 AM
 #253

freedom fighters first need to realise that currently there is probably only 0.002% of the world population using bitcoin (7bill/150k regular btc users) and to get more people over to bitcoin their needs to be an easy way to transfer FIAT to BTC and back again. so using financial institutions services is required for market expansion of BTC to atleast get the population usage up.(step 1)

even if 0.02% of the population only uses bitcoin that is 10x the market capital and demand we have today, ill leave you to do the maths for the multiples of population vs the value/demand of BTC because of population use rise.

atleast making it easier for people to buy bitcoins and for merchants/miners to sell bitcoins to buy food and pay utility bills. makes them less reliant on accepting FIAT upfront, slowly making it easier to get to (step 2&3) the point where utility company's and grocery stores accept bitcoin

to then direct pay employees in bitcoin without conversion(step 4) and then void the use of central banks completely (step5)

but you cannot take step 1 and jump to step 5 in a day. so bitinstant and bitcoincentral are atleast getting step 1 inplace.. while still keeping the control of bitcoins within the community.

maybe one day credit mutuel MAY buy out bitcoincentrals bitcoin server and do it all inhouse. lets hope that never happens. and if it does you can simply sell out of credit mutual, and find a new community led PSP.

once BTC gets to a point of not requiring FIAT(atleast 5 steps away) due to wages being paid in BTC from businesses that accept BTC for their goods and their suppliers also accepting BTC to pay their raw materials suppliers and employee's then the financial institutions will no longer be required.

i personally dont think step 4 or 5 will ever happen in my lifetime, not unless the laws change. but atleast steps 1,2,3 will expand bitcoins value/demand to a massive level. Allowing people the choice of staying with FIAT when they visit the 7-11 store or using bitcoin.

choice is the freedom. but ruling out FIAT and only having BTC is not a freedom. because PSP/exchanges such as MTGOX can start "price setting" and becoming the 21st century central bank.

if all you want is step 5 then you might aswell ask obama(US) cameron(UK) and other counturies to just start printing the bitcoin notes instead of green backs and red backs.. and change the HSBC logo to MTGOX and the bank of america logo to bitinstant.. leaving all the laws and processes the same. as thats what step 5 will end up being.. one choice just a rebranding of the names.

i dont want a world where only BTC exists i want a world where i can go to a shop and pay them in FIAT, Silver or BTC. everyone wants to make a 'buck'. bankers, you/me, everyone... but atleast not limiting choice to just bitcoin or just fiat allows people more freedom of how they make a 'buck'. so freedom fighters stop aiming for step 5 and concentrate on steps 1.2.3,4 expanding peoples choices and freedoms..


I get what you are saying. Ease of conversion to fiat is a good thing. So was it necessary to get recognized by the state in order to issue debit cards that work on the current network?
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December 08, 2012, 02:36:00 AM
 #254

I am in a similar position than you, i don't really care... but we're wrong. We should care.

If something happens they will use the goverment aka call the cops, that's why they wanted to be licensed, and more over, they are obligated.

So they call the cops, what happen next? Newspapers with bad press... what happens next? Regulations...

It's just a path that i don't like.

they are not a bank..

banks require millions upon millions of money reserves aswell as alot more infrustructure.. they are a payment gateway ( a PSP)

the fiat control is licenced and losses of fiat are insured and regulated. but the bitcoin side is not licenced/regulated or insured. that being said.. atleast having a FIAT licence and the power of their PSP beside them will push any cyber crimes investigation to a much higher priority then a guy in his basement getting a virus that steals his online bank account details.

and yes the flip side of it is more bad press of another hack.. so i truly hope they get a crack team of experts in to super secure their site.


How should I know what they would do? Better yet, why should I care?

A Bitcoin bank is a service that I don't want or need, which is precisely why I love Bitcoin. But not everyone appreciates the same things that I do. If it makes Bitcoin more accessible for those who might not otherwise use it, great. That's one step closer to me buying eggs for my breakfast with Bitcoin.
i to wish for the day my local ASDA (uk version of walmart) sells me eggs and bacon and i pay them in bitcoins

I get what you are saying. Ease of conversion to fiat is a good thing. So was it necessary to get recognized by the state in order to issue debit cards that work on the current network?

to be honest im not sure about france. but in the uk it doesnt require much recognition.. for instance i know someone who is in talks with a prepaid debit card provider and they really are not interested in bitcoin or what the funny money people trade between each other on websites. as long as the FIAT is accountable to someone and that its checked against known watchlists and as long as you are not 100% knowingly accepting money from a crime.

i can set up a website that trades bunny rabbit points, and they will still give you a corporate account and client debit cards to hand out. as long as you follow the AML/KYC guidelines theres no issues

i think bitcoincentral just showed their PSP that bitcoin is not only a SR currency.. but a whole community of gold sellers, alpaca sock sellers, graphics cards, asics sellers and other 'legally accepted' product sellers.

Do not take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence and respect what is written here as both opinion and information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist
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December 08, 2012, 02:44:10 AM
 #255


You don't understand how Bitcoin works if you think authorities can simply regulate it as they see fit. If it was that easy, I wouldn't be so interested in Bitcoin.

I think this is off topic though and if you want to discuss it further, there are various appropriate threads available.

I perfectly understand how bitcoin works. You don't know how gov works.

I know perfectly well that the bitcoin network cannot be seized, but what you don't know is that gov can ban the use of bitcoins. Gov can actually send cops in those shops who have the "bitcoin accepted" sign and put them a fine.

The same way as marijuana will keep growing (will never be extinguished), but that doesn't mean that the gov doesn't pursue it.

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December 08, 2012, 02:47:02 AM
 #256

Why the F are people freaking out about "OMG!Bitcoin is being linked with fiat!" when MtGox has been doing it for almost two years now? You guys are nuts! (And some of you need to tone down the trolling a bit; it's so moronic, it's blatantly obvious)

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December 08, 2012, 02:48:59 AM
 #257

Why the F are people freaking out about "OMG!Bitcoin is being linked with fiat!" when MtGox has been doing it for almost two years now? You guys are nuts! (And some of you need to tone down the trolling a bit; it's so moronic, it's blatantly obvious)

I don't use mtgox neither

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December 08, 2012, 02:51:09 AM
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Why the F are people freaking out about "OMG!Bitcoin is being linked with fiat!" when MtGox has been doing it for almost two years now? You guys are nuts! (And some of you need to tone down the trolling a bit; it's so moronic, it's blatantly obvious)

an exchange is very different from a bank

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December 08, 2012, 02:51:54 AM
 #259

I perfectly understand how bitcoin works. You don't know how gov works.

I know perfectly well that the bitcoin network cannot be seized, but what you don't know is that gov can ban the use of bitcoins. Gov can actually send cops in those shops who have the "bitcoin accepted" sign and put them a fine.

The same way as marijuana will keep growing (will never be extinguished), but that doesn't mean that the gov doesn't pursue it.

Oh really? Which government? American? British? Chinese? French? Korean?
Yeah, marijuana is SO illegal now that "the government" has made it illegal. Especially in Canada and Netherlands  Roll Eyes

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December 08, 2012, 02:53:43 AM
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Why the F are people freaking out about "OMG!Bitcoin is being linked with fiat!" when MtGox has been doing it for almost two years now? You guys are nuts! (And some of you need to tone down the trolling a bit; it's so moronic, it's blatantly obvious)

an exchange is very different from a bank

It's a PSP. The only difference between Gox and this that I can see is that Gox can't keep your fiat in your own private account. I'm fairly certain Gox's bank knows full well what they are doing, and are OK with Bitcoin too. Ditto for BitInstant's banks.

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