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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan  (Read 99267 times)
MooC Tals
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June 28, 2013, 10:57:53 PM

do you advice me to order, taking into consideration the delivery is 100 days, and hash difficulty is changing every 2 weeks as per what i heard from a friend.

is it worthy? going to 50GHs/60GHs?

i need your advices for a beginner.



1) Do you feel that bitcoin will increase in price?
2) Do you know the % of increase in difficulty over time?
3) Do you know how many asics are out there now and in the near future?
4) Have you made calculation according to #2 with projected difficulty now and for future increases.
5) Are you sure that you will receive your miner in 100 days.

After you can answer all those honestly to your self then you will have your answer.
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June 28, 2013, 11:05:45 PM

do you advice me to order, taking into consideration the delivery is 100 days, and hash difficulty is changing every 2 weeks as per what i heard from a friend.

is it worthy? going to 50GHs/60GHs?

i need your advices for a beginner.


With the recent dip in Bitcoin price, I'm not sure that I would.  Difficulty is shooting up while price is going down, which means profitability has the potential to not be profitable.
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June 28, 2013, 11:09:44 PM

thanks for the feedback, my last question is:

is there a feedback from people who received their units? is mining using them is working as promised? is the speed as promised?
do they get bitcoins according to the current difficulty?

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June 28, 2013, 11:12:46 PM

thanks for the feedback, my last question is:

is there a feedback from people who received their units? is mining using them is working as promised? is the speed as promised?
do they get bitcoins according to the current difficulty?


Yes, there's a lot of feedback on that.  Many people have posted pictures, videos, reviews, etc describing their new miners.  They perform as promised (well, with the exception of sucking up a lot more electricity than originally advertised in 2011).  The speed is usually better than promised, and Bitcoins are mined normally, just like any other device running at the same speed.

Look in the Custom Hardware section of this forum, or browse around on Butterfly Labs' forum to find some of these feedback posts.
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June 28, 2013, 11:47:29 PM

As far as I'm concerned, Micon's earned a lot of credibility with me.

He was the main voice on this forum calling pirate a scam, and he's right about BFL too.

Don't be surprised if these guys run off with a bunch of people's money, then play the blame game.
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July 25, 2013, 05:48:48 PM

As far as I'm concerned, Micon's earned a lot of credibility with me.

He was the main voice on this forum calling pirate a scam, and he's right about BFL too.

Don't be surprised if these guys run off with a bunch of people's money, then play the blame game.

I have to agree.  I just found this thread.  I for one feel no trust in Butterfly.  Most of the community is probably starting to realize that not only is Buttefly making very little measurable progress shipping units, they are refusing refunds and being exceptionally derogatory to customers.  That's just not the way any reputable vendor does business.

Micon, if you hit this one right you seriously have credence in my book.  If anyone else wants to judge Josh and his actions, take a look at some of the posts he makes in the Newbie forums under Butterfly Huge Scam thread.  Just unreal.
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July 25, 2013, 06:07:58 PM

I have to agree.  I just found this thread.  I for one feel no trust in Butterfly.  Most of the community is probably starting to realize that not only is Buttefly making very little measurable progress shipping units, they are refusing refunds and being exceptionally derogatory to customers.  That's just not the way any reputable vendor does business.

Micon, if you hit this one right you seriously have credence in my book.  If anyone else wants to judge Josh and his actions, take a look at some of the posts he makes in the Newbie forums under Butterfly Huge Scam thread.  Just unreal.

A legitimate business has a reputation to defend, which is why a legitimate business wouldn't hire a freak like Josh to insult its customers.  A scam, though, might hire a professional troll to disrupt discussions of its misdoings by making outrageous posts.  The hope would be to distract from the real discussion onto whatever crazy thing the troll said.

Of course, it takes a special kind of stupid to make that trolling an official part of your business.
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July 25, 2013, 10:12:55 PM

He was the main voice on this forum calling pirate a scam

You are very much confused.

April 17th, 2012:
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I would be more interested in how many reserves the "trust" still has. E.g. what would happen if the 10 biggest accounts cash out at the same time. Right now.

This.

Scenario.

I. Buy, borrow or steal 1k btc.

II. Open Krakken Bank of Bitcoin, October 1st (as we all know krakken eat pirates). Offer 7% per week to investors. At this point it makes sense strategically to open it only to "selected" investors - most everybody isn't interested anyway so you gain some "mystique" that costs nothing.

III. 1st of November. Collected a few hundred in principal, paid maybe 10-20 BTCs from your 1k. BuKK stands at a few hundred btc invested + the goodwill of paid investors, you stand at ~980 BTC.

IV. 1st of December. Collected about 1k BTC in principal, paid ~200 BTC from your 1k. BuKK stands at 1k invested, buzz is starting to fly. You're ~750 BTC.

V. 1st of January. Collected 2-3k BTC, paid pretty much the remainder of your original balance. Start making little noises here and there about how you "own" the bitcoin market and delicately suggest to people that your moves actually have any impact (a ludicrous concept, but it served the bankers of old fiat well).

VI. 1st of February. Things start to balloon from here. BuKK principal is easily over 10k BTC, growth rates in the 10 to 20% range each week. Replenish your original 1k with some fringe just in case, pay the suckers their "interest" from the growth rate like any serious pirate/krakken/anything else designed-to-fail ponzi scheme. Do a lot of mouthing about imaginary investment opportunities irl or at the irl/btc interface that somehow magically net you what no business in the ~1000 years of business history ever made and each hyip in the ~10000 years of hyip history always claimed.

 Huh

VII. Fail. A well, certainly not the first time, certainly not the last time, it's a pity to let a sucker keep its bitcoin and all that. Not like any lessons are liable to be learned or anything of the sort.

What's that, June? September? May? Heck, with a little luck it might even survive till the reward halving.

Also April 17th:
Quote
Quote
In 2010, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) warned that "[t]he con artists behind HYIPs are experts at using social media — including YouTube, Twitter and Facebook — to lure investors and create the illusion of social consensus that these investments are legitimate."
[...]
Some HYIP operators opened their own digital currency companies that eventually folded; these companies include Standard Reserve, OSGold, INTGold, EvoCash, and V-Money.
[...]
The largest documented HYIP scam was OSGold, founded as an e-gold imitation in 2001 by David Reed. OSGold folded in 2002. According to a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in early 2005, the operators of OSGold may have made off with USD $250 million. CNet reported that "at the height of its popularity, the OSGold currency boasted more than 60,000 accounts created by people drawn to promises of "high yield" investments that would provide guaranteed monthly returns of 30 percent to 45 percent."
[...]
The second largest documented HYIP was PIPS (People in Profit System or Pure Investors). The investment scheme was started by Bryan Marsden in early 2004 and spanned more than 20 countries. PIPS was investigated by Bank Negara Malaysia in 2005 which resulted in Marsden and his wife being charged in a Malaysian court with 97 counts of money laundering more than 77 million RM, equivalent to $20 million. Even after these charges were brought forth, many of Marsden's followers and investors continued to support him and believe they would see their money in the future.

There is no 7% a week. Deal with it.

Don't be surprised if these guys run off with a bunch of people's money, then play the blame game.

You're late.

A legitimate business has a reputation to defend, which is why a legitimate business wouldn't hire a freak like Josh to insult its customers.  A scam, though, might hire a professional troll to disrupt discussions of its misdoings by making outrageous posts.  The hope would be to distract from the real discussion onto whatever crazy thing the troll said.

Of course, it takes a special kind of stupid to make that trolling an official part of your business.

This all depends. No legitimate business defends itself or its reputation from the onslaught of idiots, it's much cheaper and much more effectual to just call them idiots and let them be. Consider the numerous early threads about me "pedaling" and whatnot. So in this strategic sense BFL did the right thing.

The fact that they're rather competent doesn't mean they're not scammers, however, it just means they're competent scammers (which we, as well as the US Penitentiary System already know).

The fact that you ascribe stupidity, incompetence and "all the bad things" to some entity that has hurt you by taking advantage of your manifest, marauding stupidity and then proceed to disregard both fact and reason in a ridiculous attempt to "prove" the nonsense through some painful contortions is nothing more than proof of the same thing: you're fucking dumb, and that's what dumb people do. It's not however how thinking works, and if you're wondering that's why I get to call you stupid to your face, put it in writing, sign it and get away with it: because you actually are.

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July 25, 2013, 11:46:57 PM

The fact that you ascribe stupidity, incompetence and "all the bad things" to some entity that has hurt you by taking advantage of your manifest, marauding stupidity and then proceed to disregard both fact and reason in a ridiculous attempt to "prove" the nonsense through some painful contortions is nothing more than proof of the same thing: you're fucking dumb, and that's what dumb people do. It's not however how thinking works, and if you're wondering that's why I get to call you stupid to your face, put it in writing, sign it and get away with it: because you actually are.

WTF are you on about, you spastic?  How has BFL "taken advantage" of me in any way?

I haven't been stupid enough to give them a dime.

Feel free to bother someone else with your wacko delusions, scumbag.
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July 26, 2013, 03:04:56 AM

He was the main voice on this forum calling pirate a scam

You are very much confused.


Well, he started a pretty long thread about pirate here a year ago:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900

Kinda funny reading through that thread now and reading the posts defending pirate. Might be a good reference for those still holding out hope that BFL will deliver their ASIC miner.
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July 26, 2013, 06:41:04 AM

Well, he started a pretty long thread about pirate here a year ago:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900

Kinda funny reading through that thread now and reading the posts defending pirate. Might be a good reference for those still holding out hope that BFL will deliver their ASIC miner.

Sure, nobody's saying Micon hasn't been fighting the good fight, he's for instance called out Patrick Harnett first, MP closed the deal on that one. I called out Pirate and Vandroyi closed the deal on that one. I hope I'm not offending anyone in particular if I say a bunch of people called out BFL over the many, many months that scam's been gouging noobs.

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July 26, 2013, 08:14:44 AM

thanks for the feedback, my last question is:

is there a feedback from people who received their units? is mining using them is working as promised? is the speed as promised?
do they get bitcoins according to the current difficulty?



I bought a jalapeno last September (I cancelled my Single (February) order, because there is no way they're going to ship them before difficulty gets too high!).
Since I received my jalapeno earlier this week it's been (not so) quietly mining away on my desk.

I'm hashing ~7.6Gh/sec using ~41w of power with around 3.2% HW errors.

What I will say however is that the case design is a joke. I was talking to their staff about this issue probably about 3-4 months ago. I even ran through the equations with the member of staff.
The intake grill is 73x13mm and the outlet grill is 73x10mm to the side of the fan! I left it to run for an hour before I decided to take the case off.
I took some readings (I do architectural site surveys so I have lots of very accurate sensors) and these are the results.

Case on:
Chip Temperature: 59.2oC (as reported by BFGMiner)
Ambient Temperature: 32.7oC
Case Temperature: 49.4oC
Noise Level: 87dB

Case Off:
Chip Temperature: 37.6oC (as reported by BFGMiner)
Ambient Temperature: 30.9oC
Case Temperature: N/A
Noise Level: 36dB


The case needs a redesign to be effective.
The top of the box needs a mesh grill (I would recommend a honeycomb pattern with the middle attached for the logo), and 4 intake grills at the bottom (73x13mm should suffice).
This would allow adequate inflow of air without the 'air-through-a-straw' effect that currently contributes to the noise level.
The mesh would also allow the heat to escape resulting in a lower case temperature and lower chip temperature.

Other then the case (which causes minor annoyance as I told them months ago what needed to be done), no problems or complaints here.

Veni, Vidi, Cidere, Prenda In Gen, Interlitum Verlgo Stipes, Dissiptum.
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July 26, 2013, 10:01:36 AM

They already did a redesign, they probably can't afford another.
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July 26, 2013, 01:49:14 PM

Case on:
Chip Temperature: 59.2oC (as reported by BFGMiner)
Ambient Temperature: 32.7oC
Case Temperature: 49.4oC
Noise Level: 87dB

Case Off:
Chip Temperature: 37.6oC (as reported by BFGMiner)
Ambient Temperature: 30.9oC
Case Temperature: N/A
Noise Level: 36dB

So much casewin. Somebody should forward this to the buttcoin people, they have a raging hardon for good casemods.

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July 26, 2013, 04:09:59 PM

Well, he started a pretty long thread about pirate here a year ago:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900

Kinda funny reading through that thread now and reading the posts defending pirate. Might be a good reference for those still holding out hope that BFL will deliver their ASIC miner.

Sure, nobody's saying Micon hasn't been fighting the good fight, he's for instance called out Patrick Harnett first, MP closed the deal on that one. I called out Pirate and Vandroyi closed the deal on that one. I hope I'm not offending anyone in particular if I say a bunch of people called out BFL over the many, many months that scam's been gouging noobs.

With all due respect toward Bryan, he was not the first to express concerns about BFL, though he did provide a powerful voice. I wasn't even the first, but I was the first to make the Laissez Faire City and MyWebSpawner lottery connection to Sonny Vleisides, even providing a link of at least one HYIP that went bust with its investors pointing the finger his way. It wasn't V-Money, but now I need to look into that.
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July 26, 2013, 04:45:34 PM

With all due respect toward Bryan, he was not the first to express concerns about BFL, though he did provide a powerful voice. I wasn't even the first, but I was the first to make the Laissez Faire City and MyWebSpawner lottery connect to Sonny Vleisides, even providing a link of at least one HYIP that went bust with its investors pointing the finger his way. It wasn't V-Money, but now I need to look into that.

True, but the spastic, spittle-spraying rage into which Micon routinely throws the pathetic Josh Zerlan is certainly evidence he's hurting them.

Of course, you've done a lot of catching up in that regard recently.   Grin
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July 26, 2013, 08:41:20 PM

Well, he started a pretty long thread about pirate here a year ago:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900

Kinda funny reading through that thread now and reading the posts defending pirate. Might be a good reference for those still holding out hope that BFL will deliver their ASIC miner.

Sure, nobody's saying Micon hasn't been fighting the good fight, he's for instance called out Patrick Harnett first, MP closed the deal on that one. I called out Pirate and Vandroyi closed the deal on that one. I hope I'm not offending anyone in particular if I say a bunch of people called out BFL over the many, many months that scam's been gouging noobs.

With all due respect toward Bryan, he was not the first to express concerns about BFL, though he did provide a powerful voice. I wasn't even the first, but I was the first to make the Laissez Faire City and MyWebSpawner lottery connection to Sonny Vleisides, even providing a link of at least one HYIP that went bust with its investors pointing the finger his way. It wasn't V-Money, but now I need to look into that.

I have to admit I did read what you have posted about Faire and it was difficult to follow for me not knowing about much of the connections between Sonny and his past. However I did read the fucken thing and I do see the connections and i for one am a believer but the ordinary idiot that just follows the advertising links (like I did) are just suckered in and will never know this or understand it.

I don't condone violence but if there was a time for it I believe the right people should be targeted. How do they just walk away from crap like this with out any repercussions? Who do they need to piss off before vigilance is acted on?

I guess no one fucking cares.
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July 26, 2013, 09:34:34 PM

Case on:
Chip Temperature: 59.2oC (as reported by BFGMiner)
Ambient Temperature: 32.7oC
Case Temperature: 49.4oC
Noise Level: 87dB

Case Off:
Chip Temperature: 37.6oC (as reported by BFGMiner)
Ambient Temperature: 30.9oC
Case Temperature: N/A
Noise Level: 36dB

So much casewin. Somebody should forward this to the buttcoin people, they have a raging hardon for good casemods.

Already working on one. I don't want to leave it uncovered for the long run (dust, kids knocking etc).

Veni, Vidi, Cidere, Prenda In Gen, Interlitum Verlgo Stipes, Dissiptum.
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July 27, 2013, 02:50:22 AM

I don't condone violence but if there was a time for it I believe the right people should be targeted. How do they just walk away from crap like this with out any repercussions? Who do they need to piss off before vigilance is acted on?

I guess no one fucking cares.

Quote
This last paranthesis also explains why crime fightin is never a the people affair, in case youre curious. Its not some sort of evil conspiracy to keep the citizens (the people call themselves that when unsure of their footing) from exercising justice. Its just that practically, left to their own devices, the people couldnt care less.

What shall we do ?!

From Stage n: Bitcoin exists.

'Tis a problem.

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July 27, 2013, 06:52:21 AM

I don't condone violence but if there was a time for it I believe the right people should be targeted. How do they just walk away from crap like this with out any repercussions?

Simple.  They target the kind of people for their scams who don't get violent.

Quote
Who do they need to piss off before vigilance is acted on?

People who actually would get violent.
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